On Mar 17, 7:06*am, Wayne Harris > wrote:
> On Mar 17, 5:33*am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 16, 8:53 pm, jim c > wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 17, 12:08 am, Wayne Harris > wrote:
>
> > > > In my continuing quest to kill this batch of wine, I have messed up
> > > > the acid balance.
>
> > > > Here is the story:
> > > > I have a 5 gallon batch of Cabernet Sauvignon (from concentrate) that
> > > > has finished primary.
> > > > Prior to inoculating, I measured the reconstituted juice and found
> > > > that the titrateable acid was very low, about .3%. *I wanted to raise
> > > > the acidity to between .6% and .7%.
> > > > In order to do this, I used the following formula:
>
> > > > 4.1g Tartaric Acid/1 gallon = .1% rise
>
> > > > So in order to raise 5 gallons of wine to .65% (a .35% rise) I
> > > > calculated the following:
>
> > > > 5(4.1g)/5(1) gallon=.1% rise
> > > > 3.5(20.5g/5gal)=3.5(.1%) rise
> > > > 71.75g/5gal=.35% rise
>
> > > > I added this acid to the juice and re-measured the TA. *It was up to .
> > > > 4%
> > > > After a 20 min wait, I re-measured and it was still .4%
> > > > I added another 20g.
>
> > > > After a 20 min wait, I re-measured and it was still .45%
> > > > I added another 20g.
>
> > > > After a 20 min wait, I re-measured and it was still .45%
> > > > I then added *40g.
>
> > > > After a 20 min wait, I re-measured and it was still .7%
> > > > good
>
> > > > Now, almost 2 months later, I re-measured and the TA is .82
> > > > Crap
> > > > The taste is very tart. Go figure.
>
> > > > So, what is the best way to add acid? *Should I have waited longer
> > > > before adding more? *Does it take a while for the acid to fully
> > > > dissolve?
>
> > > > Where did I go wrong?
>
> > > Hi Wayne, I am no expert, but I am pretty sure that the initial
> > > addition of acid (72g) was correct to raise the acidity to 0.7% *After
> > > adding it I would have stirred very well without splashing and been
> > > happy with that. *If I was to wanted to double check, I would have
> > > waited 12 hours or so after stirring and then given it another lesser
> > > stir before measuring. *In my experience the apparent acid after a
> > > decent stirring is always lesser immediately than it is after a few
> > > hours or even a day.
>
> > > I guess it was a mistake to fear that the acid 'hadnt worked' and add
> > > more, especially so soon.
>
> > > For future reference (just as an idea) the webpage athttp://web2.airmail.net/sgross/fermcalc/fermcalc_applet.htmlisan
> > > excellent tool for quickly calculating/double checking additions of
> > > acid and sugar (as well as other useful tools). *I don't carry the
> > > maths in my head (I should remember the square at least) and use this
> > > tool often to work out my wine details.
>
> > > I also suspect - though I court corroboration for this or denial -
> > > that it is a good idea to aim for a middling acid level (for the given
> > > type of wine) the first time you make it. *Maybe adjust up and down
> > > from there after tasting the finished wine. *Maybe just using the
> > > information for the next batch. *That is my approach now in making
> > > country wines. *Until recently I aimed for almost the maximum acids
> > > for my wines as well as the maximum suggested tannin levels. *I am
> > > starting to see that not every wine suits the acid levels I've used.
> > > Though I have yet to regret my tannic addition...
>
> > > I don't know if the wine heads here have any better suggestions, but
> > > all I can think is that ideally you would buy a 6 gallon secondary
> > > and add another gallon of juice to the must (adjusting sugar levels if
> > > required). *Then gently adjusting the acid if required to a more
> > > forgiving level. *Some say its not a good idea to add acid during
> > > fermentation, I haven't tried it myself, but I doubt it can do much
> > > harm if it is done gently...
>
> > > You could if necessary try chemical acid reduction. *I did this for a
> > > rhubarb wine and it worked very well. *It does require that you add
> > > winemakers chalk (calcium carbonate?) to reduce the acid by a given
> > > amount.
>
> > > Anyway, I digress, I guess you asked about where you went wrong rather
> > > than potential fixes, but I've had some of my plum wine and I figure
> > > it can't hurt...
>
> > > Good luck, Jim
>
> > Wow. * First off, kit wines are pre-balanced so the need to make a
> > drastic change like that is questionable. *Use your taste buds as a
> > tie breaker, always. *They are the best instrument you own.
>
> > Next, never add that much acid. *I think you acid test kit is bad, the
> > NAOH may be off. *You are literally measuring tartaric acid per given
> > quantity, it sounds like you added way too much.
>
> > That said, get the wine as cold as possible 28F is ideal. *That will
> > pull excess tartaric out
>
> > Please don't take this wrong, I'm not being critical. *All I'm saying
> > is the real art in winemaking is knowing when to say no, you seem to
> > have gotten too into getting the numbers right to stop and do a
> > reality check on them.
>
> > Don't give up, chill it.
>
> > Joe- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I'm at a stage in my winemaking art that I want and NEED critical
> feedback. *It is very very *much appreciated.
>
> BTW, *i started this batch with a *couple of cans of concentrate, not
> a kit.
> To me, a kit is the juice/concentrate, chemicals, instructions
> etc..
> I just started with a couple of cans of concentrate.
>
> OR, are cans of concentrate referred to as Kit wines too?
>
> What I am going to to is to induce MLF. then test it again with paper
> chromatography, and a TA test.
> Then cold stabilize.
>
> If that does not work, i will add a base like Calcium Carbonate.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Couple of things: First, your calculations would be way easier if you
switched to metric - 5 US gallons is 19L and using g/L instead of .x
%, you have 3g/L and want to go to 7g/L, so just multiply 19 by 4 to
get the total amount. Also, not sure where the 4.1 factor came from?
TA is measured as tartaric acid, so what you add is what you get, i.e,
you should need 3.8 g tartaric for 1g/L (0.1%) increase in 1gal.

Second, you can't measure acid correctly on must from concentrate -
they warn about this in kit making so the same things should apply to
straight concentrate, probably even more. The concentration process
binds some acids with other components in the must, and the bond only
gets release during fermenation. So that's a big part of your problem.

Pp