Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.

I have had started up 'Q'ing about nine months ago when I purchased a
traditional offset firebox smoker. I bought it because I would be able to
smoke several things at once if needed and it seemed that a lot of your
contest bbq'ers used offsets. Overall, this smoker has worked out pretty
good for me being a rookie. With a lot of reading and a little luck, I have
been fortunate to turn out some excellent BBQ. With bbq taking several hours
to finish up and sometimes 15+ hrs for your larger pork and brisket cuts, I
have obviously found that slow cooking takes a considerable investment of
time and energy. Don't get me wrong now. There's nothing like finely cooked
bbq. With my smoker, I find that at least every two hours, I have to be
putting new coals on the fire. If I go out, it can only be for a couple of
hours at a time. It would be great if I just didn't have to be stuck around
the house all day long tending to the smoker if I didn't feel like it. Yes,
I want to have my cake and eat it too.

The other day I was talking with someone who owns both an offset smoker and
a Brinkmann vertical charcoal water smoker. He likes the vertical because he
can stock it up with charcoal and let it go not having to worry about the
temps getting too high with the water pan regulating the temperature. He
also said that it can go for longer between charcoal refills, something like
4 or so hours. That seems to be a little more palatable if I want to get for
a bit and do something. I know the downside is less meat can be smoked at
one time. I have also read about the marvels that seem to be the Big Green
Eggs and Kamados in the way they turn out good meat and how they are very
constant with temps and efficient with fuel. Perhaps some day, but for the
time being a little bit too much for the budget right now from what I have
seen - around $500 or so and up.

Now for my questions.

Does a vertical smoker sound like a good way to go?

Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers, where
it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?

How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much water
do these pans generally hold?

I prefer charcoal being the fuel in the firebox, but might even look at
vertical electrical smoker. My first instinct would be to pass on electric
because u miss out a lot on charcoal and wood positives that make BBQ so
dang good. Has anyone had an electrical and liked it?

These verticals are pretty cheap starting out at about $50 and go up from
there. Without any personal experience with one, Weber seems to be rather
proud of its WSM vertical smoker. I just can't see why it seems to cost $180
or so. Is it worth it? Is there a noticeable difference between a lowly
Brinkmann $50 unit and the mighty WSM? Although it seems that Weber has done
something right. There seems to be a very loyal almost cult-like following
of the WSM out there. So, please fill me in.

That's it.

Sorry for being so long winded.

Scott > wrote in message
...
<lots of preface snipped>

Before you go any further, check out www.virtualweberbullet.com . If you
decide to buy a WSM, use the link from this site to amazon.com to help
support the vwb site and its wealth of information.

>
> Does a vertical smoker sound like a good way to go?

Many of us are quite happy with our vertical smokers.

>
> Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers, where
> it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?

I've gone closer to 16 hours without having to add lump.

>
> How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much water
> do these pans generally hold?

The water pan never needs to be refilled. Fill it once with sand, cover the
sand with heavy-duty aluminum foil to ease cleanup, and you're set.

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
> vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.
>
> I have had started up 'Q'ing about nine months ago when I purchased a
> traditional offset firebox smoker. I bought it because I would be able to
> smoke several things at once if needed and it seemed that a lot of your
> contest bbq'ers used offsets. Overall, this smoker has worked out pretty
> good for me being a rookie. With a lot of reading and a little luck, I
have
> been fortunate to turn out some excellent BBQ. With bbq taking several
hours
> to finish up and sometimes 15+ hrs for your larger pork and brisket cuts,
I
> have obviously found that slow cooking takes a considerable investment of
> time and energy. Don't get me wrong now. There's nothing like finely
cooked
> bbq. With my smoker, I find that at least every two hours, I have to be
> putting new coals on the fire. If I go out, it can only be for a couple of
> hours at a time. It would be great if I just didn't have to be stuck
around
> the house all day long tending to the smoker if I didn't feel like it.
Yes,
> I want to have my cake and eat it too.
>
> The other day I was talking with someone who owns both an offset smoker
and
> a Brinkmann vertical charcoal water smoker. He likes the vertical because
he
> can stock it up with charcoal and let it go not having to worry about the
> temps getting too high with the water pan regulating the temperature. He
> also said that it can go for longer between charcoal refills, something
like
> 4 or so hours. That seems to be a little more palatable if I want to get
for
> a bit and do something. I know the downside is less meat can be smoked at
> one time. I have also read about the marvels that seem to be the Big Green
> Eggs and Kamados in the way they turn out good meat and how they are very
> constant with temps and efficient with fuel. Perhaps some day, but for the
> time being a little bit too much for the budget right now from what I have
> seen - around $500 or so and up.
>
> Now for my questions.
>
> Does a vertical smoker sound like a good way to go?

They can do great Q with minimum effort, are easy to run, and take up little
space.


>
> Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers, where
> it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?

i've done 16+ hour cooks with a single load of *Kingsford* in my WSM

>
> How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much water
> do these pans generally hold?

I use the larger Brinkmann charcoal pan in my WSM, filled with sand and
covered with foil. Never needs to be refilled. Just change foil after each
cook.

>
> I prefer charcoal being the fuel in the firebox, but might even look at
> vertical electrical smoker. My first instinct would be to pass on electric
> because u miss out a lot on charcoal and wood positives that make BBQ so
> dang good. Has anyone had an electrical and liked it?

I had an electric Brinkmann as my first smoker, and it worked fine. But, my
charcoal-fuled WSM is even easier to operate.
>
> These verticals are pretty cheap starting out at about $50 and go up from
> there. Without any personal experience with one, Weber seems to be rather
> proud of its WSM vertical smoker. I just can't see why it seems to cost
$180
> or so. Is it worth it? Is there a noticeable difference between a lowly
> Brinkmann $50 unit and the mighty WSM? Although it seems that Weber has
done
> something right. There seems to be a very loyal almost cult-like following
> of the WSM out there. So, please fill me in.
>

I own a WSM, so I am biased. But I also owned an electric Brinkmann before.
The Brinkmann electric is a good, low-cost entry unit. WSM costs much more,
but it'll last a lifetime, makes great 'q, and won't flash back at you.

Thomas,

Read below.

"Thomas Mooney" > wrote in message
...
> Scott > wrote in message
> ...
> <lots of preface snipped>
>
> Before you go any further, check out www.virtualweberbullet.com . If you
> decide to buy a WSM, use the link from this site to amazon.com to help
> support the vwb site and its wealth of information.

thanks for the URL. I have read a lot from that site already.

> > Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers,
where
> > it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?
>
> I've gone closer to 16 hours without having to add lump.

16 hrs between refills. Wow! What kind of vertical smoker do you have?

I have never found lump charcoal at any of the typical retail stores here in
the Phoenix area. Where can one typically get lump charcoal? Whats the price
like compared to the typical Kingsford briquets?

> >
> > How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much
water
> > do these pans generally hold?
>
> The water pan never needs to be refilled. Fill it once with sand, cover
the
> sand with heavy-duty aluminum foil to ease cleanup, and you're set.

No water? The sand must act like a good heat sink. better than water, eh?

> I use the larger Brinkmann charcoal pan in my WSM, filled with sand and
> covered with foil. Never needs to be refilled. Just change foil after
each
> cook.
>

Replace the existing with a larger charcoal pan? Interesting.

I read on homebbq.com the following:

"Many have started using sand in place of water which will actually help in
the fuel efficiency of your smoker. Keep in mind that it is very easy to
burn up a piece of meat using sand in place of water, and you should know
your smoker before you try this."

Sand not buffer the heat as well as water?

Scott > wrote in message
...
> "Thomas Mooney" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I've gone closer to 16 hours without having to add lump.
>
> 16 hrs between refills. Wow! What kind of vertical smoker do you have?

Weber Smokey Mountain

> I have never found lump charcoal at any of the typical retail stores here
in
> the Phoenix area. Where can one typically get lump charcoal? Whats the
price
> like compared to the typical Kingsford briquets?

Some of the big-box stores carry lump in season. If you google up the
archives of this group, someone has mentioned a True Value Hardware SKU#
that you can get ordered.

I get my lump from a local restaurant supply house. Call a local BBQ joint
or other restaurant that might cook over charcoal (e.g. a steak house) and
ask where they get their lump. The price tends to be a bit under 50¢ per
pound. I don't buy briquettes, so I couldn't compare. But you should be
aware that lump will give you more BTUs per pound than briquettes. The
briquettes have filler and binders.

>
> > >
> > > How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much
> water
> > > do these pans generally hold?
> >
> > The water pan never needs to be refilled. Fill it once with sand, cover
> the
> > sand with heavy-duty aluminum foil to ease cleanup, and you're set.
>
> No water? The sand must act like a good heat sink. better than water, eh?

Well, sand is a good heat sink and it doesn't evaporate.

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
> vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.
>
<snip>
>
> Now for my questions.
>
> Does a vertical smoker sound like a good way to go?
>
As most will tell you, the equipment can help but the ultimate reason for
good Q is the Q'er. I had a ECB Gourmet and turned out some very good Q.
>
> Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers, where
> it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?
>
With my ECB Gourmet (modified), I could easily get 8 hours of cooking out of
one fill. However, before using anyone's value, find out the weather
conditions hey had when they got that length of time. Mine was during the
summer, around 75ºF. I would expect a much shorter burn time at 40ºF. What's
your weather like?
>
> How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much water
> do these pans generally hold?
>
Some will say use sand instead of water. I used water and never tried sand.
Doesn't mean sand isn't better, I just don't have any epxerience with it. I
will say one thing about water, you need to make sure it doesn't run dry and
then get a grease fire (guess how I know this). Anywat, I would guess the
ECB Gourmet holds around a gallon of water.
>
> I prefer charcoal being the fuel in the firebox, but might even look at
> vertical electrical smoker. My first instinct would be to pass on electric
> because u miss out a lot on charcoal and wood positives that make BBQ so
> dang good. Has anyone had an electrical and liked it?
>
No experience.
>
> These verticals are pretty cheap starting out at about $50 and go up from
> there. Without any personal experience with one, Weber seems to be rather
> proud of its WSM vertical smoker. I just can't see why it seems to cost
$180
> or so. Is it worth it? Is there a noticeable difference between a lowly
> Brinkmann $50 unit and the mighty WSM? Although it seems that Weber has
done
> something right. There seems to be a very loyal almost cult-like following
> of the WSM out there. So, please fill me in.
>
I've also heard great things about the WSM. However, when I moved up from
the ECB Gourmet, I went to the Grill Dome (ceramic cooker). Ceramic cooking
is 'set it and forget it' capable.

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
>
> > I use the larger Brinkmann charcoal pan in my WSM, filled with sand and
> > covered with foil. Never needs to be refilled. Just change foil after
> each
> > cook.
> >
>
> Replace the existing with a larger charcoal pan? Interesting.
>
> I read on homebbq.com the following:
>
> "Many have started using sand in place of water which will actually help
in
> the fuel efficiency of your smoker. Keep in mind that it is very easy to
> burn up a piece of meat using sand in place of water, and you should know
> your smoker before you try this."
>
> Sand not buffer the heat as well as water?
>

All the water pan does is provide some thermal mass that dampens out the
temperature fluctuations of the smoker. The water itself does little, if
anything, to help keep the food moist during the cook. The bigger pan
filled with sand does the same thing as far as temps go, even more so (I
estimate mine weighs about 20 pounds when filled with sand).

I did notice the temperatures were much more stable using sand over water,
which also means they are slower to respond in either direction. But, very
easy to get and stay on target temperature, and once there, rock solid.

I don't know how one would "burn up a piece of meat using sand in place of
water" as the posting states. I've never experienced a problem like this,
nor have I heard of anyone else having this problem.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:30:03 -0700, "Scott" >
wrote:

>Thomas,
>
>Read below.
>
>"Thomas Mooney" > wrote in message
...
>> Scott > wrote in message
>> ...
>> <lots of preface snipped>
>>
>> Before you go any further, check out www.virtualweberbullet.com . If you
>> decide to buy a WSM, use the link from this site to amazon.com to help
>> support the vwb site and its wealth of information.
>
>thanks for the URL. I have read a lot from that site already.
>
>> > Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers,
>where
>> > it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?
>>
>> I've gone closer to 16 hours without having to add lump.
>
>16 hrs between refills. Wow! What kind of vertical smoker do you have?
>
>I have never found lump charcoal at any of the typical retail stores here in
>the Phoenix area. Where can one typically get lump charcoal? Whats the price
>like compared to the typical Kingsford briquets?

Scott, I get lump from two places...
BBQ Galore (I use the one on Camelback; the one on Bell never seems to
have the big bags), and Smart & Final. Smart & Final's costs less.
When they have it.
>
>> >
>> > How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much
>water
>> > do these pans generally hold?
>>
>> The water pan never needs to be refilled. Fill it once with sand, cover
>the
>> sand with heavy-duty aluminum foil to ease cleanup, and you're set.
>
>No water? The sand must act like a good heat sink. better than water, eh?
>
>

--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

SCUBApix > wrote in message
...
>
> >
> What's your weather like?

He said he lives in Phoenix. Shoot, in the summer he probably doesn't need
_any_ lump. Just set that black beast out in the afternoon sun and pray the
meat doesn't incinerate. <g>

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

Scubapix,

I live in Phoenix. No problems with cold winter temperatures here. In fact
today, the projected high temperature will be 73 degrees.

Then in the summer, with temps getting up to 110 on a normal basis, perhaps
charcoal will last even longer between refills.


"SCUBApix" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Scott" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
> > vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Now for my questions.
> >
> > Does a vertical smoker sound like a good way to go?
> >
> As most will tell you, the equipment can help but the ultimate reason for
> good Q is the Q'er. I had a ECB Gourmet and turned out some very good Q.
> >
> > Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers,
where
> > it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?
> >
> With my ECB Gourmet (modified), I could easily get 8 hours of cooking out
of
> one fill. However, before using anyone's value, find out the weather
> conditions hey had when they got that length of time. Mine was during the
> summer, around 75ºF. I would expect a much shorter burn time at 40ºF.
What's
> your weather like?
> >
> > How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much
water
> > do these pans generally hold?
> >
> Some will say use sand instead of water. I used water and never tried
sand.
> Doesn't mean sand isn't better, I just don't have any epxerience with it.
I
> will say one thing about water, you need to make sure it doesn't run dry
and
> then get a grease fire (guess how I know this). Anywat, I would guess the
> ECB Gourmet holds around a gallon of water.
> >
> > I prefer charcoal being the fuel in the firebox, but might even look at
> > vertical electrical smoker. My first instinct would be to pass on
electric
> > because u miss out a lot on charcoal and wood positives that make BBQ so
> > dang good. Has anyone had an electrical and liked it?
> >
> No experience.
> >
> > These verticals are pretty cheap starting out at about $50 and go up
from
> > there. Without any personal experience with one, Weber seems to be
rather
> > proud of its WSM vertical smoker. I just can't see why it seems to cost
> $180
> > or so. Is it worth it? Is there a noticeable difference between a lowly
> > Brinkmann $50 unit and the mighty WSM? Although it seems that Weber has
> done
> > something right. There seems to be a very loyal almost cult-like
following
> > of the WSM out there. So, please fill me in.
> >
> I've also heard great things about the WSM. However, when I moved up from
> the ECB Gourmet, I went to the Grill Dome (ceramic cooker). Ceramic
cooking
> is 'set it and forget it' capable.
>
>

LOL. Isn't that the truth!


"Thomas Mooney" > wrote in message
...
> SCUBApix > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > >
> > What's your weather like?
>
> He said he lives in Phoenix. Shoot, in the summer he probably doesn't
need
> _any_ lump. Just set that black beast out in the afternoon sun and pray
the
> meat doesn't incinerate. <g>
>
> --
> TFM3
>
> Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address
>
>
>
>
>
>

Another thing. You guys that get 8-16 hrs on your vertical smokers on one
load of charcoal, is that due to using the minion method for burning the
coal?


"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Scubapix,
>
> I live in Phoenix. No problems with cold winter temperatures here. In fact
> today, the projected high temperature will be 73 degrees.
>
> Then in the summer, with temps getting up to 110 on a normal basis,
perhaps
> charcoal will last even longer between refills.
>
>
> "SCUBApix" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Scott" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
> > > vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.
> > >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > Now for my questions.
> > >
> > > Does a vertical smoker sound like a good way to go?
> > >
> > As most will tell you, the equipment can help but the ultimate reason
for
> > good Q is the Q'er. I had a ECB Gourmet and turned out some very good Q.
> > >
> > > Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers,
> where
> > > it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?
> > >
> > With my ECB Gourmet (modified), I could easily get 8 hours of cooking
out
> of
> > one fill. However, before using anyone's value, find out the weather
> > conditions hey had when they got that length of time. Mine was during
the
> > summer, around 75ºF. I would expect a much shorter burn time at 40ºF.
> What's
> > your weather like?
> > >
> > > How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much
> water
> > > do these pans generally hold?
> > >
> > Some will say use sand instead of water. I used water and never tried
> sand.
> > Doesn't mean sand isn't better, I just don't have any epxerience with
it.
> I
> > will say one thing about water, you need to make sure it doesn't run dry
> and
> > then get a grease fire (guess how I know this). Anywat, I would guess
the
> > ECB Gourmet holds around a gallon of water.
> > >
> > > I prefer charcoal being the fuel in the firebox, but might even look
at
> > > vertical electrical smoker. My first instinct would be to pass on
> electric
> > > because u miss out a lot on charcoal and wood positives that make BBQ
so
> > > dang good. Has anyone had an electrical and liked it?
> > >
> > No experience.
> > >
> > > These verticals are pretty cheap starting out at about $50 and go up
> from
> > > there. Without any personal experience with one, Weber seems to be
> rather
> > > proud of its WSM vertical smoker. I just can't see why it seems to
cost
> > $180
> > > or so. Is it worth it? Is there a noticeable difference between a
lowly
> > > Brinkmann $50 unit and the mighty WSM? Although it seems that Weber
has
> > done
> > > something right. There seems to be a very loyal almost cult-like
> following
> > > of the WSM out there. So, please fill me in.
> > >
> > I've also heard great things about the WSM. However, when I moved up
from
> > the ECB Gourmet, I went to the Grill Dome (ceramic cooker). Ceramic
> cooking
> > is 'set it and forget it' capable.
> >
> >
>
>

Scott wrote:

<snip>

> Now for my questions.
>
> Does a vertical smoker sound like a good way to go?

Yes. I own a WSM and turn out great Q with it IMNSHO.

> Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers, where
> it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?

I used the "Minion method" as described on
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com to get close to 16 hours using lump
charcoal. Now I wouldn't recommend leaving the house that long during
the cook, but once you get the temps stabilized, it can go 4-5 hrs
without checking.

> How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much water
> do these pans generally hold?

I use sand instead of water and never need to refill. I filled the
stock water pan 2/3 full with sand, then covered with a double layer of
heavy duty foil.

> I prefer charcoal being the fuel in the firebox, but might even look at
> vertical electrical smoker. My first instinct would be to pass on electric
> because u miss out a lot on charcoal and wood positives that make BBQ so
> dang good. Has anyone had an electrical and liked it?

Can't comment.

> These verticals are pretty cheap starting out at about $50 and go up from
> there. Without any personal experience with one, Weber seems to be rather
> proud of its WSM vertical smoker. I just can't see why it seems to cost $180
> or so. Is it worth it? Is there a noticeable difference between a lowly
> Brinkmann $50 unit and the mighty WSM? Although it seems that Weber has done
> something right. There seems to be a very loyal almost cult-like following
> of the WSM out there. So, please fill me in.

IMO, it's worth the price to buy the WSM. While here might not be a
difference in the quality of Q you get out - with practice, you could
get great q off any cooker - there is a difference in the amount of work
and worry you put in. I am constantly surprised with how easy the WSM
is to run.

Thanks for letting this WSM "cultist" speak up ;-)

--
Aloha,

Nathan Lau
San Jose, CA

#include <std.disclaimer>

Hi Scott....I've been running my WSM since August. It is my first smoker,
and I find it very easy to run.
I use lump charcoal with chunks of wood for smoke......mostly using a
half-assed minion method (I just shake the lump/ashes from the last cook and
dump on some more unlit before I add lit coals). In the late summer I have
kept it going for 13 hours no problem......would have stayed going but I was
done cooking the meat!.
I am in NH, and cooked for 6 hours in the last blizzard we had...11 inches
of snow--25 degrees with strong winds.....the temps stayed pretty even in
that, although it was a bit more work to get the temps up to 225-250. I
would think in Arizona, the Weber would work great.I also use sand and foil
in the water pan...no worries about the pan going dry, and less clean up.
I can't speak about the quality of less expensive smokers, but the Weber
is solid. Also, I like that I can use it as a grill, as I don't have a huge
deck/lawn, and only want one cooker. Good luck! David-

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
> vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.
>

I cooked for 4 summers on a modified ECB Gourmet, and just bought a WSM, so
I can compare the two from experience. The WSM is much more solidly built
than the Gourmet. The body is porcelain coated steel, whereas the Gourmet
is painted steel (much thinner). The cooking grids on the Gourmet are far
heavier and better constructed. They're a little larger, so you can get more
meat on them. The vent system gives you excellent control over airflow to
the fire (and temperature), whereas the Gourmet came with one non-adjustable
vent, so the temperature went wherever it would.

The Gourmet itself is a huge step above the basic $28 ECB, as the Gourmet
has a separate 2-piece charcoal pan; you can lift the body of the smoker off
the pan to get easy access to the fire. With the basic ECB, your only
access is via the little door on the side. I wouldn't recommend the base
ECB to anyone, because for just a few dollars more, the Gourmet is much
easier to use (and with some modifications, works very well). I saw the
Gourmet on sale at a WalMart for $35 recently.

To make the Gourmet usable, in my opinion, you have to modify it to let you
control the airflow (an adjustable cover over the vent works well) so you
can control the temperature, install a real thermometer (I used a $7 candy
thermometer), and put a grate inside the charcoal pan so ashes can fall
through, instead of building up to smother the fire. After I made those
mods, I could get 5 to 6 hours of steady 250 degree temperatures with no
attention from me. This link
http://community.webshots.com/album/85230444qwxKGC should let you see
what I did to the Gourmet.

Someone said "I use the larger Brinkmann charcoal pan in my WSM, filled with
sand and
covered with foil." This refers to replacing the WSM's small capacity water
pan with the pan that is used as the charcoal pan for the $28 ECB, and is
also used as the water pan in the Gourmet. It holds about twice as much
water as the WSM's skimpy pan, so allows you to cook longer without having
to add water.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

Scott wrote:
<snip>
>
> Now for my questions.
>
> Does a vertical smoker sound like a good way to go?
>

All cookers have their advantages and disadvantages.

> Have any of you experienced the same with vertical charcoal smokers, where
> it was about 4 hrs between charcoal fills?
>

I have a CharBroil vertical smoker. On a nice day, I can get 3 1/2 hours
from a load of coals. Minion method has not worked for me. I have not
tried putting more holes in the charcoal pan.


> How often does the water pan need to be refilled if at all? How much water
> do these pans generally hold?

As others have said, people are now using sand instead of water. If you
make sure to put foil on top of the sand, clean up is much easier.


>
> I prefer charcoal being the fuel in the firebox, but might even look at
> vertical electrical smoker. My first instinct would be to pass on electric
> because u miss out a lot on charcoal and wood positives that make BBQ so
> dang good. Has anyone had an electrical and liked it?
>

Don't know much about the electric's, though I have read of some
complaints here. Don't remember the complaints. But others also think
an electric suits them just fine. (advantages and disadvantages :-)

> These verticals are pretty cheap starting out at about $50 and go up from
> there. Without any personal experience with one, Weber seems to be rather
> proud of its WSM vertical smoker. I just can't see why it seems to cost $180
> or so. Is it worth it? Is there a noticeable difference between a lowly
> Brinkmann $50 unit and the mighty WSM? Although it seems that Weber has done
> something right. There seems to be a very loyal almost cult-like following
> of the WSM out there. So, please fill me in.
>

Mine was about $40. Weber can and should be proud of their product. I
have NOT read a single complaint on their WSM on this group. I have been
around this group over 6 years. I can think of at least a dozen regulars
around here that own one.

If you want a vertical smoker, WSM is the way to go. The WSM is made of
a heavier metal, which is what I suspect is part of the reason it is
easier to maintain temperature. I am certain that a WSM will last you a
life time.

My CharBroil works OK in the summer months, and maybe when outside
temperature is above 50°. When it starts getting cooler than this, it is
very difficult to get and maintain temperature where I like it.

> That's it.
>

Get yourself a WSM and 'pay once cry once'. You've heard from several
owners of the WSM. Whatcha waitin for? Don't wait for a sale. Cause it
ain't gonna happen.


> Sorry for being so long winded.
>

Not a problem.

Happy Q'en,
BBQ
>
>

Thomas Mooney wrote:


>
> I get my lump from a local restaurant supply house. Call a local BBQ joint
> or other restaurant that might cook over charcoal (e.g. a steak house) and
> ask where they get their lump. The price tends to be a bit under 50¢ per
> pound. I don't buy briquettes, so I couldn't compare. But you should be
> aware that lump will give you more BTUs per pound than briquettes. The
> briquettes have filler and binders.
>
>
Thomas,

Where are you getting your lump? I think I pay about $20 for 20 lb. I
know there is a place in Minneapolis that sells the lump I buy, just
can't think of their name right now. I wanna say, Northwestern Charcoal
Co., but not sure.

Happy Q'en,
BBQ

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:54:46 -0700, in alt.food.barbecue you wrote:

>Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
>vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.

Loads of other replies already so here's the condensed version.

Yes, it's a fantastic unit, FAR better than the cheapy water smokers from
Brinkman etc. (I've had those too)

Very temperature stable (get a bigger pan if you use water, or use sand in
the OEM pan)

Makes great Q.

Get one.

> Where are you getting your lump? I think I pay about $20 for 20 lb. I
> know there is a place in Minneapolis that sells the lump I buy, just
> can't think of their name right now. I wanna say, Northwestern Charcoal
> Co., but not sure.

Close. I think it's Northwest Charcoal and Chemical.

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

"Thomas Mooney" > wrote in
:

> SCUBApix > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> >
>> What's your weather like?
>
> He said he lives in Phoenix. Shoot, in the summer he probably doesn't
> need _any_ lump. Just set that black beast out in the afternoon sun
> and pray the meat doesn't incinerate. <g>

You got that right. Last time I was in Phoenix was Jul 14, 1980. It
was 114° in the shade of which there wasn't any. That's when I learned
to wear a long sleeved flannel shirt on the motorcycle and soak it in
water every hour or so. Very effective A/C.

M&M Man

very helpful thread (from a lurker)! question, please...

will the weber vertical smoker take care of my non-smoking Q'ing needs as well
as the more traditional weber, if smoking will only make up, say, 20% of my
outdoor cooking and i can make only one purchase? thanks!

"OhJeeez" > wrote in message
...
> very helpful thread (from a lurker)! question, please...
>
> will the weber vertical smoker take care of my non-smoking Q'ing needs as
well
> as the more traditional weber, if smoking will only make up, say, 20% of
my
> outdoor cooking and i can make only one purchase? thanks!


If you mean, can you use it to grill, the answer is yes. Put the Fire ring
on the lower grill level, and use the top grill for grilling. Open all vents
100 % and your good to go. I use lump, and it gets plenty hot to sear
steak...just leave the top off , and the lump will get very hot, or cover if
grilling things that you don't need as much heat....that's my experience....
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/ gives details on doing this.....

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Another thing. You guys that get 8-16 hrs on your vertical smokers on one
> load of charcoal, is that due to using the minion method for burning the
> coal?
>
That's what I did. Just about fill the pan with lump, light a small amount
in a chimney and pour that on top and then close it up.

One of my mods was also to suround the ECB Gourmet with fibreglass
insulation. I cut out a hole for the door. So only the domed cover and
firepot weren't insulated. I also made a 'control' for the hole in the
bottom pan to control the amount of air getting in and thus the temp. Seemed
to work great for me. Wind and cooler temps (never did any cooking when the
temps were below around 50ºF) didn't impact my ability to hold a constant
temp for low & slows with a little fiddling every so often. With my Grill
Dome, I don't even have the fiddling and I did my last cook at about 45ºF
outside temp. This weekend's cook looks like outside temps will be in the
20's.

"Oncler" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Scott....I've been running my WSM since August. It is my first smoker,
> and I find it very easy to run.
> I use lump charcoal with chunks of wood for smoke......mostly using a
> half-assed minion method (I just shake the lump/ashes from the last cook
and
> dump on some more unlit before I add lit coals). In the late summer I have
> kept it going for 13 hours no problem......would have stayed going but I
was
> done cooking the meat!.
> I am in NH, and cooked for 6 hours in the last blizzard we had...11 inches
> of snow--25 degrees with strong winds.....the temps stayed pretty even in
> that, although it was a bit more work to get the temps up to 225-250.
<snip>
I think that this is the main difference as you go up the cost scale: ease
of use. I got great Q out of my $45 ECB Gourmet. I really believe those with
a $180 WSM get great Q with less effort. But I don't think anyone can
compare the the quality of Q and ease of use of a ceramic cooker, especially
a <biased statement on>Grill Dome<biased statement off>. However, you have
to know what you're doing. If your just starting out, go cheap to make sure
you like the hobby and then move up. Just my $0.02.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:54:46 -0700, "Scott" >
wrote:

>Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
>vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.
>

Scott,

I followed the following progression in my BBQ education:

1) Started off with years of using a Regular old Weber Grill.

2) Got a lower-end Brinkmann Offset smoker grill. Started getting
used to fussing with the coal and the vents every 45 minutes or so to
keep the thing anywhere near the desired temp.

3) Brinkmann El Cheapo Vertical Smoker - A revelation. The results I
had with the vertical were so much better with much less work (it
maintained a steady temp without the constant fussing of the offset).

4) Upgraded to a WSM. It did everything the Cheapo brinkmann did only
far better. Better built, better airflow adjustment. An absolutely
great smoker.

5) Got a #7 Kamado. The best. Period. This ceramic smoker grill is
worth every penny. It maintains an even temperature for hours and
hours without having to adjust it (My record so far is a 11 hour cook
where I didn't touch it and the temp stayed between 225-233 degrees).
And it looks beautiful doing it.

I'd suggest checking out a local wally-mart and you can usually pick
up one of the el cheapos for around 25-35 bucks, sometimes less. Easy
way to test one out and see how you like it. Just remember that the
WSM is a significant improvement over this model and, I think, well
worth the extra $$$.







-Chef Juke
http://www.chefjuke.com
"Everybody Eats when they come to MY house!"

(Remove the CAPS from the return address when sending email replies)

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 02:29:03 GMT, bbq > wrote:

>Thomas,
>
>Where are you getting your lump? I think I pay about $20 for 20 lb. I
>know there is a place in Minneapolis that sells the lump I buy, just
>can't think of their name right now. I wanna say, Northwestern Charcoal
>Co., but not sure.
>
>Happy Q'en,
>BBQ

At the Cash and Carry place in Spokane, WA the Lazzarri lump is $11.24
for a 50# bag. A restaurant suply-type place that sells to the
public. Maybe look for something like that. It is also the place to
get Butts and Spares. Lasst cryopac 2 Butt set was .79 per pound
(boneless).




- -

DL

http://www.geocities.com/dicklong14_ca/fanclub.htm

>> Evidently your buddy Cedeño is a *******.
>>
>
>First of all, Cedeño is not my buddy.

::::::::::::::::

"When you make fun of someone washing his truck, that's sad."
- Jeff Kent

::::::::::::::::

Halter Sucks!

Chef Juke,

Thanks for progression timeline. Quite interesting. It seems like there
seems to be quite a few people who followed similar BBQ cooker purchase
timelines. I have read such amazing user stories about the ceramic cookers
that I am sure that I will probably eventually be getting one myself one of
these years.

Scott

"Chef Juke" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:54:46 -0700, "Scott" >
> wrote:
>
> >Hello. I would like to preferably hear from anyone who owns a WSM or a
> >vertical smoker or who at least knows something about them.
> >
>
> Scott,
>
> I followed the following progression in my BBQ education:
>
> 1) Started off with years of using a Regular old Weber Grill.
>
> 2) Got a lower-end Brinkmann Offset smoker grill. Started getting
> used to fussing with the coal and the vents every 45 minutes or so to
> keep the thing anywhere near the desired temp.
>
> 3) Brinkmann El Cheapo Vertical Smoker - A revelation. The results I
> had with the vertical were so much better with much less work (it
> maintained a steady temp without the constant fussing of the offset).
>
> 4) Upgraded to a WSM. It did everything the Cheapo brinkmann did only
> far better. Better built, better airflow adjustment. An absolutely
> great smoker.
>
> 5) Got a #7 Kamado. The best. Period. This ceramic smoker grill is
> worth every penny. It maintains an even temperature for hours and
> hours without having to adjust it (My record so far is a 11 hour cook
> where I didn't touch it and the temp stayed between 225-233 degrees).
> And it looks beautiful doing it.
>
> I'd suggest checking out a local wally-mart and you can usually pick
> up one of the el cheapos for around 25-35 bucks, sometimes less. Easy
> way to test one out and see how you like it. Just remember that the
> WSM is a significant improvement over this model and, I think, well
> worth the extra $$$.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Chef Juke
> http://www.chefjuke.com
> "Everybody Eats when they come to MY house!"
>
> (Remove the CAPS from the return address when sending email replies)
>

Thomas Mooney wrote:
>>Where are you getting your lump? I think I pay about $20 for 20 lb. I
>>know there is a place in Minneapolis that sells the lump I buy, just
>>can't think of their name right now. I wanna say, Northwestern Charcoal
>>Co., but not sure.
>
>
> Close. I think it's Northwest Charcoal and Chemical.
>

Yep, that is the name I am thinking of. Thanks. Is that where you buy
your lump? I imagine I get mine from through them, cause the owner of
NCC also owns The Outdoorcookingstore, where I buy mine.

Happy Q'en,
BBQ


> --
> TFM3
>
> Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well, shit, I was gonna say somethin but I can see I don't have to. Get a
WSM, cook all night while ya sleep, eat good meat. There...I said it anyway.

--
Fosco Gamgee Whitfurrows
and his 6" boner

>
>
>

> > Close. I think it's Northwest Charcoal and Chemical.
> >
>
> Yep, that is the name I am thinking of. Thanks. Is that where you buy
> your lump?

Yes, it is. BTW, a hint if you ever go to NCC: the buildings on that block
are _not_ in strict numerical sequence. Very disconcerting. Also, while
that particular block isn't bad, it's not my favorite neighborhood.

> I imagine I get mine from through them, cause the owner of
> NCC also owns The Outdoorcookingstore, where I buy mine

Where's that located?

--
TFM3

Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address

Thomas Mooney wrote:

>>>Close. I think it's Northwest Charcoal and Chemical.
>>>
>>
>>Yep, that is the name I am thinking of. Thanks. Is that where you buy
>>your lump?
>
>
> Yes, it is. BTW, a hint if you ever go to NCC: the buildings on that block
> are _not_ in strict numerical sequence. Very disconcerting. Also, while
> that particular block isn't bad, it's not my favorite neighborhood.
>
>

And not my favorite neighborhood either. Though I will go there in the
daylight hours, no problem. Night time, NOT A CHANCE.


>>I imagine I get mine from through them, cause the owner of
>>NCC also owns The Outdoorcookingstore, where I buy mine
>
>
> Where's that located?
>

The Outdoorcookingstore is located at 2225 4th St in downtown White Bear
Lake. They have lots of high end cooking gear. Some 3-4K or more.
Lots of accessories too. Web page is kinda plain. But if your ever in
the neighborhood, stop by just for window shopping. Leave the credit
card locked up in the car :-)
They have a 37 inch weber kettle. Now that's a grill!!!!!!

Web page is http://outdoorcookingstore.com

Happy Q'en,
BBQ

> --
> TFM3
>
> Note: Spam-resistant e-mail address
>
>
>

Faye Kinnitt > wrote in
:

> On 9 Jan 2004 06:47:09 GMT, wrote:
>
>>"Thomas Mooney" > wrote in
:
>>
>>> SCUBApix > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> What's your weather like?
>>>
>>> He said he lives in Phoenix. Shoot, in the summer he probably doesn't
>>> need _any_ lump. Just set that black beast out in the afternoon sun
>>> and pray the meat doesn't incinerate. <g>
>>
>>You got that right. Last time I was in Phoenix was Jul 14, 1980. It
>>was 114° in the shade of which there wasn't any. That's when I learned
>>to wear a long sleeved flannel shirt on the motorcycle and soak it in
>>water every hour or so. Very effective A/C.
>>
>>M&M Man
>
> You still ride ?
>
> 67 here and still riding.... 8^)
> http://home.earthlink.net/~pacific-coast/
>
> Bob in socal......
>

No. Email me and I'll tell you the story.

M&M Man

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:01:06 -0700, "Scott" >
wrote:

>Chef Juke,
>
>Thanks for progression timeline. Quite interesting. It seems like there
>seems to be quite a few people who followed similar BBQ cooker purchase
>timelines. I have read such amazing user stories about the ceramic cookers
>that I am sure that I will probably eventually be getting one myself one of
>these years.
>
>Scott
>

No problem.

For some pics of my Kamado (and I think you can see the WSM and
Brinkmann nearby in some of the pics) see the Kamado portion of my
website at http://www.chefjuke.com/kamado


-Chef Juke
http://www.chefjuke.com
"Everybody Eats when they come to MY house!"

(Remove the CAPS from the return address when sending email replies)

Thank you everyone! A lot of great responses. I will definitely being
getting a vertical smoker now. A vertical smoker is definitely the way to go
for ease of use and less hands on work. I am also leaning towards a WSM over
a ECB. Even though an ECB would be just fine for the average backyard BBQ
guy like myself, but with all the detailed responses about the differences
between the two, the WSM seems like money well spent.

Then perhaps one day when all the stars align just right, I will bust out
the wallet for a Kamado...

Thanks once again.

Scott

"Chef Juke" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 10:01:06 -0700, "Scott" >
> wrote:
>
> >Chef Juke,
> >
> >Thanks for progression timeline. Quite interesting. It seems like there
> >seems to be quite a few people who followed similar BBQ cooker purchase
> >timelines. I have read such amazing user stories about the ceramic
cookers
> >that I am sure that I will probably eventually be getting one myself one
of
> >these years.
> >
> >Scott
> >
>
> No problem.
>
> For some pics of my Kamado (and I think you can see the WSM and
> Brinkmann nearby in some of the pics) see the Kamado portion of my
> website at http://www.chefjuke.com/kamado
>
>
> -Chef Juke
> http://www.chefjuke.com
> "Everybody Eats when they come to MY house!"
>
> (Remove the CAPS from the return address when sending email replies)
>