As my two batches of wine near the final phases
I've begun to wonder about bottles.

White wine usually comes in clear or amber bottles
with a sloping shoulder, and red wine usually comes
in a darker bottle with a more pronounced shoulder.
Any reason for this? Should I get different bottles
for red vs. white wine?

Or is the important thing to just get it into a bottle,
wait the required time, get a funnel, and start guzzling?

Inquiring minds want to know.

--
Bob Becker

www.becker.org

Bottle style has traditionally had less to do with color or varietal
and more to do with regional ancestry; there are Bordeaux style
bottles, Burgundy style bottles, a slightly smaller Burgundian style
associated with Rhone wines, Champagne style, Alsatian, etc.

There is some argument that bottle color makes a difference relative to
white vs red; my own opinion is that all bottles should be kept in a
dark cellar and therefore color would make no difference - but I do
prefer the look of white wines being served from green glass.

I simply collect a lot of bottles of all types. We have predominantly
Burgundian style bottles, but a lot of Bordeaux as well.

Where bottle style has the most impact, for me, is in cellar planning.
The Burgundy bottles are significantly larger diameter, and therefore
impact cellar shelf planning.


Bob Becker wrote:
> As my two batches of wine near the final phases
> I've begun to wonder about bottles.
>
> White wine usually comes in clear or amber bottles
> with a sloping shoulder, and red wine usually comes
> in a darker bottle with a more pronounced shoulder.
> Any reason for this? Should I get different bottles
> for red vs. white wine?
>
> Or is the important thing to just get it into a bottle,
> wait the required time, get a funnel, and start guzzling?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> --
> Bob Becker
>
> www.becker.org

I support what Ric said above about the history, and styles. What I've
learned from my year experience - collect what you can, clean them good,
and eventually if you get enough - you can sort them out and use like
bottles for bottling. So I sort out the clear Burgundy style for my
whites or fruit wines. The Bordeaux for reds. Though Pinot Noir is often
in Burgundy style, so I try to sort to that. I have 144 bottles filled
and in storage awaiting "the right time" to begin drinking, 144 empties
ready to be filled in July from my various carboys.

I sort and clean as I need, since storage of empties always get dust, or
things (I found a 6 foot snake skin wrapped around my "empties" cases in
the garage). Oh, and when I get a bottle empty, I soak off the label and
run it neck down in the dishwasher prior to storage upside down in empty
cases. Just the way I do it. I don't like to save bottles with wine
drops hardening inside, makes it easier later. Then it's soak for a
minute in a "no rinse" solution and 1 minute in clean cool water, hang
to dry. then bottle.

hope that helped.
I sure liked the funnel and guzzle comment. haha.

I find the "hose until your hosed" works also, just can't walk around as
much. Can you picture a 6 gallon carboy on top the refrig with 3 hoses
coming down -- suck till you drop. hahahahaha.

DAve
p.s. for labels, I'd recommend Avery "removable" labels, they even give
free software to design your own labels. Sure makes removal easy.

Bob Becker wrote:
> As my two batches of wine near the final phases
> I've begun to wonder about bottles.
>
> White wine usually comes in clear or amber bottles
> with a sloping shoulder, and red wine usually comes
> in a darker bottle with a more pronounced shoulder.
> Any reason for this? Should I get different bottles
> for red vs. white wine?
>
> Or is the important thing to just get it into a bottle,
> wait the required time, get a funnel, and start guzzling?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>

regarding the labels -

I tried the Avery labels last year, for the first time. The problem was
when I came to drink those wines, and found that those labels do not
come off too easy. Plus, they are relatively expensive.

I have gone back to simply printing labels on standard paper, and
attaching with cheap Elmer's glue all (I put a sponge in a dish and
soak it in the glue, then dab the labels on the sponge, and fix em to
the bottles.

For me, easier, cheaper, and they come off easy.


Live long - and drink lots of good wine along the way

Ric



Dave Allison wrote:
> I support what Ric said above about the history, and styles. What I've
> learned from my year experience - collect what you can, clean them good,
> and eventually if you get enough - you can sort them out and use like
> bottles for bottling. So I sort out the clear Burgundy style for my
> whites or fruit wines. The Bordeaux for reds. Though Pinot Noir is often
> in Burgundy style, so I try to sort to that. I have 144 bottles filled
> and in storage awaiting "the right time" to begin drinking, 144 empties
> ready to be filled in July from my various carboys.
>
> I sort and clean as I need, since storage of empties always get dust, or
> things (I found a 6 foot snake skin wrapped around my "empties" cases in
> the garage). Oh, and when I get a bottle empty, I soak off the label and
> run it neck down in the dishwasher prior to storage upside down in empty
> cases. Just the way I do it. I don't like to save bottles with wine
> drops hardening inside, makes it easier later. Then it's soak for a
> minute in a "no rinse" solution and 1 minute in clean cool water, hang
> to dry. then bottle.
>
> hope that helped.
> I sure liked the funnel and guzzle comment. haha.
>
> I find the "hose until your hosed" works also, just can't walk around as
> much. Can you picture a 6 gallon carboy on top the refrig with 3 hoses
> coming down -- suck till you drop. hahahahaha.
>
> DAve
> p.s. for labels, I'd recommend Avery "removable" labels, they even give
> free software to design your own labels. Sure makes removal easy.
>
> Bob Becker wrote:
> > As my two batches of wine near the final phases
> > I've begun to wonder about bottles.
> >
> > White wine usually comes in clear or amber bottles
> > with a sloping shoulder, and red wine usually comes
> > in a darker bottle with a more pronounced shoulder.
> > Any reason for this? Should I get different bottles
> > for red vs. white wine?
> >
> > Or is the important thing to just get it into a bottle,
> > wait the required time, get a funnel, and start guzzling?
> >
> > Inquiring minds want to know.
> >

> As my two batches of wine near the final phases
> I've begun to wonder about bottles.
>
> White wine usually comes in clear or amber bottles
> with a sloping shoulder, and red wine usually comes
> in a darker bottle with a more pronounced shoulder.
> Any reason for this? Should I get different bottles
> for red vs. white wine?
>
> Or is the important thing to just get it into a bottle,
> wait the required time, get a funnel, and start guzzling?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.


Does anybody re-use and bottle in the new(er) screw cap bottles that have
been prevalent in the market lately?

I'm thinking of using these (first batch of wine) instead of buying a
corker.

Pros? Cons?

Eli Renfro wrote:
>
> Does anybody re-use and bottle in the new(er) screw cap bottles that have
> been prevalent in the market lately?
>
> I'm thinking of using these (first batch of wine) instead of buying a
> corker.
>
> Pros? Cons?

I'm doing it but don't have many yet - 10-20. It's fine for a short
time and you'll save on corks but I wouldn't trust the broken seal to
hold for long-term storage - of course, the best way is to really test
it.

Pp

For what it's worth, I've got a few glass 1 qt Coke bottles with screw caps
that I have reused several times for fruit wines. First was blackberry,
then wild cherry and now elderberry and none have failed yet. If you
remember when they stopped putting Coke in glass you know how old they are.

Since the fruit was free, I wasn't too worried about loss and was curious.

Dick


"pp" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Eli Renfro wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody re-use and bottle in the new(er) screw cap bottles that
have
> > been prevalent in the market lately?
> >
> > I'm thinking of using these (first batch of wine) instead of buying a
> > corker.
> >
> > Pros? Cons?
>
> I'm doing it but don't have many yet - 10-20. It's fine for a short
> time and you'll save on corks but I wouldn't trust the broken seal to
> hold for long-term storage - of course, the best way is to really test
> it.
>
> Pp
>

"Eli Renfro" > wrote in message
...
>>
> Does anybody re-use and bottle in the new(er) screw cap bottles that have
> been prevalent in the market lately?
> I'm thinking of using these (first batch of wine) instead of buying a
> corker.

*gasp*
What about the romance, the passion, the tradition!
A properly corked bottle of wine is a joy to behold.
Can you imagine dining in a fine restaurant, and the
wine seward walks up, unscrews the bottle top, lays
it gently in front of you to be examined, and then pours
a bit of wine to be tasted. Of course not!
Get the corks. Get the corker. Report back here.

screwcaps are difficult for the home winemaker, but the data is
compelling;
* Cork is getting more scarce, and expensive
* TCA contaminates upwards of 5% of corked wine. For the home
wimemaker, these can be a lot worse - a bad "batch" of corks can ruin a
whole vintage

I'm still using corks, but looking seriously at synthetics for my white
wine.


Bob Becker wrote:
>
> *gasp*
> What about the romance, the passion, the tradition!
> A properly corked bottle of wine is a joy to behold.
> Can you imagine dining in a fine restaurant, and the
> wine seward walks up, unscrews the bottle top, lays
> it gently in front of you to be examined, and then pours
> a bit of wine to be tasted. Of course not!
> Get the corks. Get the corker. Report back here.

"Ric" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> I'm still using corks, but looking seriously at synthetics for my white
> wine.

My wife and I recently went to Italy and somehow the subject of corks came
up
because in Italian they're Quercus or something along those lines..
She commented that corks come from oak trees and that the Latin name
"Quercus"
is where we get the word "cork".
I laughed, I ridiculed, I poo-pooed the whole idea.
Darned if she isn't right.
There's a 'cork oak', and that is indeed where we get corks and the work
cork.
I married a smart woman.

But you raise the subject of synthetic corks.
It doesn't really seem like a bad idea if real corks can introduce a
contaminant.
Why only for white wine?

I love the romance of corks and the love affair ends right about
there...

As to corks if you use them buy good ones. If it feels hard like wood,
buy something else, it's not a good cork. It should give with a little
pressure. If I make a really heavy red I will use corks. I have some
98 Chancellors under good corks and they are just coming around now. I
might be nervous about using a synthetic there, the unknowns can be a
bad thing. Most synthetic manufacturers say they are good for a few
years. Very good corks are good for 20.

I have been using synthetics for a while. I like Nomacorc, I have some
reds from 2002 under them that are doing just fine. I think Guardian
is OK too but it's stiffer and just feels loose, especially in a
burgundy bottle. I quit using Supremecorq because I did note a
significant drop in sulfite levels with it.

I would not reuse screw caps, I would try to find new ones. There are
American threads and European, most I see are European and I can't find
a new screw-cap with those threads.

Joe


> Why only for white wine?

To your question - only whites because I don't have plans to age them.
I grow and make Marsanne, no oak, more 'fruit forward' than, say, the
Hermitage style. Bottom line - a style intended to be quaffed young,
not aged. So I have no concerns over the aging characteristics of
synthetics.

On the other hand, I grow and bottle Syrah and Cabernet Sauvignon -
intended for aging For now, am staying with cork. As Joe suggests,
there may be some limitations on aging with synthetics. Truth is, I am
not up on the research or the results. But the trend is undeniable -
cork is giving way to synthetics.

Your wife is quite right - oak is genus Quercus. Only a few species are
used for oak aging, and only one - Quercus suber - is used to make
cork.
Read Joe's post carefully; choosing quality corks is important. Find a
well respected supplier if at all possible, and talk to them about
buying the highest quality possible. It's worth the extra $. And
consider synthetics - especially if you are making wine intended to
drink in the next few years.

Cheers,

Ric


Bob Becker wrote:

>
> My wife and I recently went to Italy and somehow the subject of corks came
> up
> because in Italian they're Quercus or something along those lines..
> She commented that corks come from oak trees and that the Latin name
> "Quercus"
> is where we get the word "cork".
> I laughed, I ridiculed, I poo-pooed the whole idea.
> Darned if she isn't right.
> There's a 'cork oak', and that is indeed where we get corks and the work
> cork.
> I married a smart woman.
>
> But you raise the subject of synthetic corks.
> It doesn't really seem like a bad idea if real corks can introduce a
> contaminant.
> Why only for white wine?

The pronounced shoulder "Bordeaux" bottle was originally for trapping
the sediment while decanting the wine from the bottle. Now that we cold
stabilize our wines, it's kinda moot point. Tradition lives on.

BTW, Pinot Noir, a red, is bottled in the sloping shoulder "Burgundy"
bottle, and Sauvignon Blanc, a white, is bottled in the Bordeaux bottle.

http://www.cellarnotes.net/bottleshapes.html

Gene


Bob Becker wrote:
> As my two batches of wine near the final phases
> I've begun to wonder about bottles.
>
> White wine usually comes in clear or amber bottles
> with a sloping shoulder, and red wine usually comes
> in a darker bottle with a more pronounced shoulder.
> Any reason for this? Should I get different bottles
> for red vs. white wine?
>
> Or is the important thing to just get it into a bottle,
> wait the required time, get a funnel, and start guzzling?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>

"gene" > wrote in message
.com...
>
> http://www.cellarnotes.net/bottleshapes.html

Great site!
Thanks for the link.
I bookmarked it.

Again, the inheritance of place, rather than color.
The really interesting decisions, if you're trying to emulate
tradition, are the blends that cross the traditional regions.

For instance; what should a Cabernet Sauvignon / Syrah blend be bottled
in? Or, a Viognier / Sauvignon Blanc?

Not that it matters, but it's easy to amuse oneself with such
wonderings while the grapes are still on the vine, and last years' reds
still sit on the oak.

Cheers,

Ric

gene wrote:
> The pronounced shoulder "Bordeaux" bottle was originally for trapping
> the sediment while decanting the wine from the bottle. Now that we cold
> stabilize our wines, it's kinda moot point. Tradition lives on.
>
> BTW, Pinot Noir, a red, is bottled in the sloping shoulder "Burgundy"
> bottle, and Sauvignon Blanc, a white, is bottled in the Bordeaux bottle.
>

Tis an easy response... majority rules.
Somebody's got a way too comfortable armchair, lol.

Gene

Ric wrote:
> Again, the inheritance of place, rather than color.
> The really interesting decisions, if you're trying to emulate
> tradition, are the blends that cross the traditional regions.
>
> For instance; what should a Cabernet Sauvignon / Syrah blend be bottled
> in? Or, a Viognier / Sauvignon Blanc?
>
> Not that it matters, but it's easy to amuse oneself with such
> wonderings while the grapes are still on the vine, and last years' reds
> still sit on the oak.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ric
>
> gene wrote:
>
>>The pronounced shoulder "Bordeaux" bottle was originally for trapping
>>the sediment while decanting the wine from the bottle. Now that we cold
>>stabilize our wines, it's kinda moot point. Tradition lives on.
>>
>>BTW, Pinot Noir, a red, is bottled in the sloping shoulder "Burgundy"
>>bottle, and Sauvignon Blanc, a white, is bottled in the Bordeaux bottle.
>>
>
>