Can I grow my vines (white grapes) so that the "base"or "stalk" is
around 10 -15 feet long with no (trimmed off) leaves or off shoots, until it
gets high enough to get up to the roof line (of my house) and thus receive
full, day long, sunlight? The "stalk" is now in mostly shade (4 hours of
direct sunlight). I would then trim and prune the top part into an arbor and
encourage grape development only where it gets full sun.
I make wine from store purchased juice but would love to do from my own
vines. Right now the production and quality of my grapes are very low do to
the limited amount of sun on these vines. They were from my grandfather's
garden and he used to make wine from them, so I would love to carry on the
tradition but my spot to grow them is far from ideal. Thanks for any help.

The direct answer is 'yes' - assuming you have reasonable soil and the
vines are watered. I've seen numerous grapevines trained up trellises,
poles, etc.

The real question then becomes more difficult to answer; will they
produce high quality wine grapes in sufficient quantity for my
winemaking needs?

Most vineyards are now pruning back quite short - 3 feet or so. When I
visited the famous Burgundian vineyards two summers ago, I was quite
surprised at how low they prune their vines - a couple feet high when
dormant.The question here is - will having such a long stalk affect the
quality of your grapes? Honestly, I don't know.

The sedond issue becomes canopy management. Quality grapes require
pretty careful canaopy management such that they receive sufficient
sunlight, yet sufficient shade such that they don;t burn. Sufficient
airflow. And, very important, the canopy needs to be managed (leaf
pulling or hedging) to maintain appropriate balance of leaf versus
fruit. These issues DO directly affect grape quality. In a "normal"
vineyard, these are managed with trellises and accessible canopy for
leaf pulling or hedging. If your vines are on your roof - can you set
up trellis wires to control cane growth? Can you access the canopy?

Last thought - can you get enough vines for reasonable production? I
have 150 vines spaced in ten rows of about 15 each - stalks come to
about waist high before splitting into two cordons (relatively high -
but easier to work on). Vines are spaced about 6 feet apart -
producing, on average, about 7 to 8 pounds of grape per vine. That
isn;t a very big yield - how many pounds would you need for your
roofline to produce?

Ric:

What is the between row spacing and varieties you grow.

I'm planning and planting right now and that info would be interesting
to know if you wouldn't mind.

Steve noobie
Oregon

> "Ric" > wrote:
snip
>Last thought - can you get enough vines for reasonable production? I
>have 150 vines spaced in ten rows of about 15 each - stalks come to
>about waist high before splitting into two cordons (relatively high -
>but easier to work on). Vines are spaced about 6 feet apart -
>producing, on average, about 7 to 8 pounds of grape per vine. That
>isn;t a very big yield - how many pounds would you need for your
>roofline to produce?

I have ten rows, on average 15 vines @. Rows are 10 feet apart, vines
are 6 feet apart in row (so-called 6x10 spacing). More density (8 feet
apart) would have been possible, but these are enough vines for me -
and the aesthetics work well in the particular field. Currently, 100+
Syrah, 40 Marsanne - although am starting now (2 year plan) on gratfing
over / replanting to be apx 60 Syrah, 50 Cab Franc, 40 Marsanne. I use
a small Kubota tractor which scoots up and down the rows just fine -
and could have done so in 8 foot rows.

Actually, just finished pruning today. Bud nodes are starting to swell
- new season will be under way soon!

Making your own wine from your own grapes is a big thrill - good luck.
Drop a line anytime if I can offer any input. BTW - we're drinking the
05 Marsanne already - and it's fantastic.

Tom,

You can have long stalks or in viticulture language, trunks. There is a
common thought that the more perennial wood on a vine the better the
quality of the grapes. The long trunk certaintly would give you that.
Short trunks are used mostly in cold climates in case the trunk is
injured it can be replaced quickly( 1 year ). Where are you located???
If winter injury is a problem then it might be frustrating trying to
keep a trunk more than a few years. If not, it should work. Pruning
would be a high wire act. The only problem I see is that the roof may
get too hot or if the vines are growing directly on the roof , moisture
could be a problem on the underside of the leaf. If you can keep the
leaves off the roof, then your good to go.

Bob


Tom wrote:
> Can I grow my vines (white grapes) so that the "base"or "stalk" is
> around 10 -15 feet long with no (trimmed off) leaves or off shoots, until it
> gets high enough to get up to the roof line (of my house) and thus receive
> full, day long, sunlight? The "stalk" is now in mostly shade (4 hours of
> direct sunlight). I would then trim and prune the top part into an arbor and
> encourage grape development only where it gets full sun.
> I make wine from store purchased juice but would love to do from my own
> vines. Right now the production and quality of my grapes are very low do to
> the limited amount of sun on these vines. They were from my grandfather's
> garden and he used to make wine from them, so I would love to carry on the
> tradition but my spot to grow them is far from ideal. Thanks for any help.

Thanks Ric, appreciate the info.

Yeah it sounds like you're busy all right. What fun!

Take Care and Thanks,

Steve noobie
Oregon

On 6 Feb 2006 18:16:29 -0800, "Ric" > wrote:

>I have ten rows, on average 15 vines @. Rows are 10 feet apart, vines
>are 6 feet apart in row (so-called 6x10 spacing). More density (8 feet
>apart) would have been possible, but these are enough vines for me -
>and the aesthetics work well in the particular field. Currently, 100+
>Syrah, 40 Marsanne - although am starting now (2 year plan) on gratfing
>over / replanting to be apx 60 Syrah, 50 Cab Franc, 40 Marsanne. I use
>a small Kubota tractor which scoots up and down the rows just fine -
>and could have done so in 8 foot rows.
>
>Actually, just finished pruning today. Bud nodes are starting to swell
>- new season will be under way soon!
>
>Making your own wine from your own grapes is a big thrill - good luck.
>Drop a line anytime if I can offer any input. BTW - we're drinking the
>05 Marsanne already - and it's fantastic.

Couple thoughts doubl;

1. "more perrential wood = better quality grapes". There is also a very
popular beleif to the contrary - that the more pruned back the vine,
the better the grape quality. Take a run through the Burgundian
vienyeards sometime - many in Napa are going the same way. Can't say i
can detect a difference. Age, vigor, canopy management, vineyard
management practices all seem to me to have more influence.
2. I still think Tom has an issue with canopy management - unless he
creates a trellis system above hs roofline. The canes would likely hang
out and down - possibly preventing adequate light and air (increased
mildew potential, uneven ripening, etc), and I would hazard a guess
that sulfur spraying would be real difficult on the rooftop!

I am in New Jersey. The grapes would not be grown ON the roof but on an
arbor at roof level over my back porch. Fairly easy access with a short
ladder. I could put pipe insulators on the stalk during the winter for
protection. Thanks all for the help.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Tom,
>
> You can have long stalks or in viticulture language, trunks. There is a
> common thought that the more perennial wood on a vine the better the
> quality of the grapes. The long trunk certaintly would give you that.
> Short trunks are used mostly in cold climates in case the trunk is
> injured it can be replaced quickly( 1 year ). Where are you located???
> If winter injury is a problem then it might be frustrating trying to
> keep a trunk more than a few years. If not, it should work. Pruning
> would be a high wire act. The only problem I see is that the roof may
> get too hot or if the vines are growing directly on the roof , moisture
> could be a problem on the underside of the leaf. If you can keep the
> leaves off the roof, then your good to go.
>
> Bob
>
>
> Tom wrote:
>> Can I grow my vines (white grapes) so that the "base"or "stalk" is
>> around 10 -15 feet long with no (trimmed off) leaves or off shoots, until
>> it
>> gets high enough to get up to the roof line (of my house) and thus
>> receive
>> full, day long, sunlight? The "stalk" is now in mostly shade (4 hours of
>> direct sunlight). I would then trim and prune the top part into an arbor
>> and
>> encourage grape development only where it gets full sun.
>> I make wine from store purchased juice but would love to do from my
>> own
>> vines. Right now the production and quality of my grapes are very low do
>> to
>> the limited amount of sun on these vines. They were from my grandfather's
>> garden and he used to make wine from them, so I would love to carry on
>> the
>> tradition but my spot to grow them is far from ideal. Thanks for any
>> help.
>

Tom,

What grapes do you plan to grow and where in NJ do you live??

Bob


Tom wrote:
> I am in New Jersey. The grapes would not be grown ON the roof but on an
> arbor at roof level over my back porch. Fairly easy access with a short
> ladder. I could put pipe insulators on the stalk during the winter for
> protection. Thanks all for the help.
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Tom,
> >
> > You can have long stalks or in viticulture language, trunks. There is a
> > common thought that the more perennial wood on a vine the better the
> > quality of the grapes. The long trunk certaintly would give you that.
> > Short trunks are used mostly in cold climates in case the trunk is
> > injured it can be replaced quickly( 1 year ). Where are you located???
> > If winter injury is a problem then it might be frustrating trying to
> > keep a trunk more than a few years. If not, it should work. Pruning
> > would be a high wire act. The only problem I see is that the roof may
> > get too hot or if the vines are growing directly on the roof , moisture
> > could be a problem on the underside of the leaf. If you can keep the
> > leaves off the roof, then your good to go.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > Tom wrote:
> >> Can I grow my vines (white grapes) so that the "base"or "stalk" is
> >> around 10 -15 feet long with no (trimmed off) leaves or off shoots, until
> >> it
> >> gets high enough to get up to the roof line (of my house) and thus
> >> receive
> >> full, day long, sunlight? The "stalk" is now in mostly shade (4 hours of
> >> direct sunlight). I would then trim and prune the top part into an arbor
> >> and
> >> encourage grape development only where it gets full sun.
> >> I make wine from store purchased juice but would love to do from my
> >> own
> >> vines. Right now the production and quality of my grapes are very low do
> >> to
> >> the limited amount of sun on these vines. They were from my grandfather's
> >> garden and he used to make wine from them, so I would love to carry on
> >> the
> >> tradition but my spot to grow them is far from ideal. Thanks for any
> >> help.
> >