I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
to reading all the responses......

I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
40 vines ??

Thanks

Mark

Mark - N1MT wrote:

> I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> to reading all the responses......
>
> I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> 40 vines ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

After five or six years you MIGHT get 8 to 10 lbs per vine - or in other
words somewhere around 300 pounds to 400 pounds. Others may give you other
numbers. Some use a rule of thumb of a gallon of wine per vine which would
be over 12 pounds per vine but I think this would be overly optimistic
unless you plan to over crop.

Where are you planting - what state and area?

Have you already committed to 6 foot rows and 4 feet between vines?
Have you considered a divided canopy system such as GDC, Scott Henry or
Lyre?

You may be able to increase your yield by choosing one of these systems and
having more room between rows.

Mark - I picked my C. Franc yesterday. This was the first year I let the
vines have grapes. The load worked out to 11.2 pounds per vine. Brix was
19.5, pH 3.64 and TA 0.67. Next year I'll prune down to 8 or 9 pounds per
vine and get the brix up a little.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"Mark - N1MT" > wrote in message
om...
> I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> to reading all the responses......
>
> I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> 40 vines ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

Mark - I picked my C. Franc yesterday. This was the first year I let the
vines have grapes. The load worked out to 11.2 pounds per vine. Brix was
19.5, pH 3.64 and TA 0.67. Next year I'll prune down to 8 or 9 pounds per
vine and get the brix up a little.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"Mark - N1MT" > wrote in message
om...
> I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> to reading all the responses......
>
> I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> 40 vines ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

(Mark - N1MT) wrote in message . com>...
> I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> to reading all the responses......
>
> I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> 40 vines ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

Mark, it depends on your growing conditions but also which
training/trellis technique you choose and how severely you prune. If
conditions are favorable and you prune for high yield rather than
quality, you might well get 10 pounds per vine or even more. On the
other hand, there exist commercial vineyards where yield is
intentionally limited to a couple of pounds per vine in order to get
superior quality. As both vineyard manager and winemaker, that's a
basic chioce you get to make.

- Mark W.

Bill;

How many years did you go before you let the vines yield grapes ?

Mark

"William Frazier" > wrote in message >...
> Mark - I picked my C. Franc yesterday. This was the first year I let the
> vines have grapes. The load worked out to 11.2 pounds per vine. Brix was
> 19.5, pH 3.64 and TA 0.67. Next year I'll prune down to 8 or 9 pounds per
> vine and get the brix up a little.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
> "Mark - N1MT" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> > to reading all the responses......
> >
> > I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> > of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> > 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> > apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> > 40 vines ??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mark

Hi Paul;

I live in central Connecticut.

I haven't committed yet to the actual planting layout or the trellis
system that I'll be using. Initially, my thought was to use a 2 wire
system. One at 40" and the other at 6' and do my planting as I defined
below. Could you tell me more about the divided canopy systems or
point me to a web site you find as a good reference. I'm working with
a 35' x 25' area for the vineyard. O'h, did I mentioned my wife's
requirements..... It must look appealing to the eye.

Thanks, Mark

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message >...
> Mark - N1MT wrote:
>
> > I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> > to reading all the responses......
> >
> > I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> > of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> > 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> > apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> > 40 vines ??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mark
>
> After five or six years you MIGHT get 8 to 10 lbs per vine - or in other
> words somewhere around 300 pounds to 400 pounds. Others may give you other
> numbers. Some use a rule of thumb of a gallon of wine per vine which would
> be over 12 pounds per vine but I think this would be overly optimistic
> unless you plan to over crop.
>
> Where are you planting - what state and area?
>
> Have you already committed to 6 foot rows and 4 feet between vines?
> Have you considered a divided canopy system such as GDC, Scott Henry or
> Lyre?
>
> You may be able to increase your yield by choosing one of these systems and
> having more room between rows.

Mark - N1MT wrote:

> Hi Paul;
>
> I live in central Connecticut.
>
> I haven't committed yet to the actual planting layout or the trellis
> system that I'll be using. Initially, my thought was to use a 2 wire
> system. One at 40" and the other at 6' and do my planting as I defined
> below. Could you tell me more about the divided canopy systems or
> point me to a web site you find as a good reference. I'm working with
> a 35' x 25' area for the vineyard. O'h, did I mentioned my wife's
> requirements..... It must look appealing to the eye.
>
> Thanks, Mark

Mark
One of the best resources I have found is a book titled "From Vines to
Wines" by Jeff Cox. It is inexpensive and describes everything from
recommended varieties by region, planning your vineyard, trellising systems
design and pruning. It is one of the very best books I have seen
(especially on pruning) It is only 235 pages long - including index - and
is very easy to read and understand. You might even be able to pick up a
used copy on Amazon.com. I understand completely your wife's
"requirement". To me, there is no more beautiful site than a well
maintained vineyard - with the possible exception of a beaufiful woman in a
well maintained vineyard. Let me know if you have any more questions. You
can also reach me at my home email. I live in Central Maryland.

Mark - N1MT wrote:

> Hi Paul;
>
> I live in central Connecticut.
>
> I haven't committed yet to the actual planting layout or the trellis
> system that I'll be using. Initially, my thought was to use a 2 wire
> system. One at 40" and the other at 6' and do my planting as I defined
> below. Could you tell me more about the divided canopy systems or
> point me to a web site you find as a good reference. I'm working with
> a 35' x 25' area for the vineyard. O'h, did I mentioned my wife's
> requirements..... It must look appealing to the eye.
>
> Thanks, Mark

Mark
One of the best resources I have found is a book titled "From Vines to
Wines" by Jeff Cox. It is inexpensive and describes everything from
recommended varieties by region, planning your vineyard, trellising systems
design and pruning. It is one of the very best books I have seen
(especially on pruning) It is only 235 pages long - including index - and
is very easy to read and understand. You might even be able to pick up a
used copy on Amazon.com. I understand completely your wife's
"requirement". To me, there is no more beautiful site than a well
maintained vineyard - with the possible exception of a beaufiful woman in a
well maintained vineyard. Let me know if you have any more questions. You
can also reach me at my home email. I live in Central Maryland.

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
...
>
> Mark
> One of the best resources I have found is a book titled "From Vines to
> Wines" by Jeff Cox. It is inexpensive and describes everything from
> recommended varieties by region, planning your vineyard, trellising systems
> design and pruning. It is one of the very best books I have seen
> (especially on pruning) It is only 235 pages long - including index - and
> is very easy to read and understand. You might even be able to pick up a
> used copy on Amazon.com. I understand completely your wife's
> "requirement". To me, there is no more beautiful site than a well
> maintained vineyard - with the possible exception of a beaufiful woman in a
> well maintained vineyard. Let me know if you have any more questions. You
> can also reach me at my home email. I live in Central Maryland.
>
>
I have the first edition, and also think it's great. I don't know about the
latest edition, but the only thing missing is info on sorbate usage.
Ken

This is their third year Mark
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"Mark - N1MT" > wrote in message
om...
> Bill;
>
> How many years did you go before you let the vines yield grapes ?
>

This is their third year Mark
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

"Mark - N1MT" > wrote in message
om...
> Bill;
>
> How many years did you go before you let the vines yield grapes ?
>

MArk,

Along with the other good answers here , here's my 2 cents. Since your
keeping distances between vines to 4 feet I'd shoot for around 6.5
pounds per plant ( 1/2 the 8ft spacing). Also I would use the VSP in
central Conn. Keep the yeild down and LOTS of sunshine to the shoots.
The problem with divided canopies is the long trunk which could be a
problem in cold growing areas. I think your going to have a TOUGH time
with Cab Franc in Central Conn. , are you near the coast? If you are
not, grow them on their own roots or you'll be replacing vines
frequently.


Bob


(Mark - N1MT) wrote in message . com>...
> I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> to reading all the responses......
>
> I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> 40 vines ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

MArk,

Along with the other good answers here , here's my 2 cents. Since your
keeping distances between vines to 4 feet I'd shoot for around 6.5
pounds per plant ( 1/2 the 8ft spacing). Also I would use the VSP in
central Conn. Keep the yeild down and LOTS of sunshine to the shoots.
The problem with divided canopies is the long trunk which could be a
problem in cold growing areas. I think your going to have a TOUGH time
with Cab Franc in Central Conn. , are you near the coast? If you are
not, grow them on their own roots or you'll be replacing vines
frequently.


Bob


(Mark - N1MT) wrote in message . com>...
> I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> to reading all the responses......
>
> I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> 40 vines ??
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

Bob;

I'm gonna give the FRANC a try. I'm purchasing my vines from A&A
Vineyards in NY. They offer 3 different FRANC's. Type SO4, 101-14 and
3309. I've decided to go with the 101-14 because its more winter hardy
than the 3309 and much more hardy than the SO4. The vines are not on
their own root but grafted. My thought was to mulch around the graft
with straw during the winter months for protection. I may be second
guessing myself in years to come about going with vinifera versus
hybrid, being from Connecticut. I don't live on the coast, but about
20 miles inland along the Connecticut river valley. Its not as bad,
tempwise, as living in the northwest hills of Connecticut but it
certainly isn't (far, far from it) Napa Valley

Mark

(bob) wrote in message . com>...
> MArk,
>
> Along with the other good answers here , here's my 2 cents. Since your
> keeping distances between vines to 4 feet I'd shoot for around 6.5
> pounds per plant ( 1/2 the 8ft spacing). Also I would use the VSP in
> central Conn. Keep the yeild down and LOTS of sunshine to the shoots.
> The problem with divided canopies is the long trunk which could be a
> problem in cold growing areas. I think your going to have a TOUGH time
> with Cab Franc in Central Conn. , are you near the coast? If you are
> not, grow them on their own roots or you'll be replacing vines
> frequently.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> (Mark - N1MT) wrote in message . com>...
> > I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> > to reading all the responses......
> >
> > I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> > of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> > 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> > apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> > 40 vines ??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mark

Bob;

I'm gonna give the FRANC a try. I'm purchasing my vines from A&A
Vineyards in NY. They offer 3 different FRANC's. Type SO4, 101-14 and
3309. I've decided to go with the 101-14 because its more winter hardy
than the 3309 and much more hardy than the SO4. The vines are not on
their own root but grafted. My thought was to mulch around the graft
with straw during the winter months for protection. I may be second
guessing myself in years to come about going with vinifera versus
hybrid, being from Connecticut. I don't live on the coast, but about
20 miles inland along the Connecticut river valley. Its not as bad,
tempwise, as living in the northwest hills of Connecticut but it
certainly isn't (far, far from it) Napa Valley

Mark

(bob) wrote in message . com>...
> MArk,
>
> Along with the other good answers here , here's my 2 cents. Since your
> keeping distances between vines to 4 feet I'd shoot for around 6.5
> pounds per plant ( 1/2 the 8ft spacing). Also I would use the VSP in
> central Conn. Keep the yeild down and LOTS of sunshine to the shoots.
> The problem with divided canopies is the long trunk which could be a
> problem in cold growing areas. I think your going to have a TOUGH time
> with Cab Franc in Central Conn. , are you near the coast? If you are
> not, grow them on their own roots or you'll be replacing vines
> frequently.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> (Mark - N1MT) wrote in message . com>...
> > I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> > to reading all the responses......
> >
> > I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> > of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> > 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> > apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> > 40 vines ??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mark

Mark,

You won't be second guessing yourself about going with Cab Franc but
you may be second guessing your self about grafted vs. non-grafted. I
don't think the cold hardiness of any of those rootstocks will be an
issue. Anyway, If we get some mild winters you'll do ok and then maybe
you could experiment with cuttings from your own vines. BTW, Lemberger
is a good red choice also. I'd plant 1 or 2 of those to compare
against the Cab Franc. Lemberger also "supposedly" makes pretty good
wine even if it doesn't get to full ripeness which is a GREAT feature.
You'll see, getting to full ripeness with an acceptable crop level
will be a challenge. I know you could cluster thin but grapes are alot
of time and you want to make more than a couple of gallons after
spending the time, and it will take time, trust me.


Bob


(Mark - N1MT) wrote in message . com>...
> Bob;
>
> I'm gonna give the FRANC a try. I'm purchasing my vines from A&A
> Vineyards in NY. They offer 3 different FRANC's. Type SO4, 101-14 and
> 3309. I've decided to go with the 101-14 because its more winter hardy
> than the 3309 and much more hardy than the SO4. The vines are not on
> their own root but grafted. My thought was to mulch around the graft
> with straw during the winter months for protection. I may be second
> guessing myself in years to come about going with vinifera versus
> hybrid, being from Connecticut. I don't live on the coast, but about
> 20 miles inland along the Connecticut river valley. Its not as bad,
> tempwise, as living in the northwest hills of Connecticut but it
> certainly isn't (far, far from it) Napa Valley
>
> Mark
>
> (bob) wrote in message . com>...
> > MArk,
> >
> > Along with the other good answers here , here's my 2 cents. Since your
> > keeping distances between vines to 4 feet I'd shoot for around 6.5
> > pounds per plant ( 1/2 the 8ft spacing). Also I would use the VSP in
> > central Conn. Keep the yeild down and LOTS of sunshine to the shoots.
> > The problem with divided canopies is the long trunk which could be a
> > problem in cold growing areas. I think your going to have a TOUGH time
> > with Cab Franc in Central Conn. , are you near the coast? If you are
> > not, grow them on their own roots or you'll be replacing vines
> > frequently.
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > (Mark - N1MT) wrote in message . com>...
> > > I know this question will return a range of answers and I look forward
> > > to reading all the responses......
> > >
> > > I'll be planting Cabernet Franc next spring. Based on the limitations
> > > of my land, I'm only able to fit 5 rows / 8 vines each for a total of
> > > 40 vines. The rows will be 6 feet apart and the vines will be 4 feet
> > > apart. My question is what can I expect to yield, in LBS, from these
> > > 40 vines ??
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Mark