I'm making a second bath of Sumac wine. The first batch turned out ok,
and I'm not real sure what caused the smell (pervious post), but yeast
nutrient seemed to help. I'm not real happy with the taste, wanted a
tarter taste. FYI Old timmers used Sumac in place of lemmon juice.

Jack Keller says not to use hot water to extract the...if you could
call it juice from the seed coverings, as it will extract too much
tannin. I was wondering if there is a way to use hot water, then use
some other method to reduce the tannin before fermenting. ie egg
whites

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/finishin.asp
"Egg white is an excellent fining agent for removing haze caused by
excessive tannin."

Any thoughts?
Stu

I cannot comment on the extraction process but Jack does a lot of
experimentation with these things and I would suggest you follow his
suggestion.

If you first batch is not tart enough it is a simple matter to add a bit of
acid to it. You could measure the TA with an acid kit and add enough to
bring it up to where you want it or you could simply do it by taste. Add a
bit of tartaric until it brightens a to close to where you want it. Put it
back for bulk aging for a few more months to let the acid incorporate fully
and try it again to do a final adjustment. This is common procedure for
wine makers.

Ray

"StuPedaso" <StillAwake@2am> wrote in message
news
> I'm making a second bath of Sumac wine. The first batch turned out ok,
> and I'm not real sure what caused the smell (pervious post), but yeast
> nutrient seemed to help. I'm not real happy with the taste, wanted a
> tarter taste. FYI Old timmers used Sumac in place of lemmon juice.
>
> Jack Keller says not to use hot water to extract the...if you could
> call it juice from the seed coverings, as it will extract too much
> tannin. I was wondering if there is a way to use hot water, then use
> some other method to reduce the tannin before fermenting. ie egg
> whites
>
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/finishin.asp
> "Egg white is an excellent fining agent for removing haze caused by
> excessive tannin."
>
> Any thoughts?
> Stu
>

The tartness I'm speaking of comes from the Sumac seed coverings
themselves. I've made Sumac-aid before, and it'll sure make you
pucker. I'm using a different technique than Jack uses.
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/staghorn.asp I twist and break the
clusters, then rub the smaller cluster pieces together, and comb the
seeds off the stems. The first batch, I just used too much water. I
poured about a half gallon of water over the seeds, and it was tart
then, but when I poured the second half gallon over the seeds, It
didn't have that lemon taste. At that point it was too late.

After reading more about Sumac online, I learned that you can't really
go by weight. The tartness depends on when you pick them, how much
rain they got before you pick em etc. You just cover the seeds you
have with water, and let them sit over night. I think I have enough
seeds this time, so I can reuse the same water on several batches of
seeds to get the tartness I want. If I have some seeds left over, I'll
try hot water and the egg whites or whole milk, just to see if it
works. I'm hoping the hot water will extract more color as well.

I don't have an acid kit, ph meter, tartaric, or ... It's just a
hobby for now, and I've spent more than I should have on equipment
already. I still need a Vinator or some sort of washer, floor corker,
bottle tree...
Stu

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:02:37 GMT, "Ray Calvert"
> wrote:

>If you first batch is not tart enough it is a simple matter to add a bit of
>acid to it. You could measure the TA with an acid kit and add enough to
>bring it up to where you want it or you could simply do it by taste.

I used to make sumac lemonade when I was a kid and I do think your
soaking method is better. If you simmer too long it does get bitter
and it's just too late to fix it. You can't go by color, you have to
taste it. The bottle washer is around $10 US and is a great
investment. I lend my corker to coworkers and friends until they know
they are getting into this for real, maybe you can find a local to
borrow the corker from.

Joe

I just fill a container full of clusters and cover them with COLD
water. Wait 15 minutes and then bash the day lights out of them with an
old wooden masher. If the juice isn't strong enough for my taste, I
just throw in some more clusters. And bash some more . I then strain
off the juice through a cheese cloth and let it sit overnight before
straining it again. Some junk will settle out over night . In my
cooking pot I bring it up to just past steaming , not boiling , for 5
minutes and add the sugar etc.. Cool and cast the yeast , After a week
into the secondary. Make sure you use a malic tolerant yeast .

Makes good jelly too.

Thanks Dave
I'm using muslin, leaves a stain but the cloth is cheap.
There is even a pie recipe
http://www.motherearthnews.com/libra..._Farming_No__4
It's about 3/4 down the page. Sounds interesting. I'll have the wife
whip one up if there is any juice left.

On 3 Dec 2005 10:54:18 -0800, "Davef" > wrote:

> I just fill a container full of clusters and cover them with COLD
>water. Wait 15 minutes and then bash the day lights out of them with an
>old wooden masher. If the juice isn't strong enough for my taste, I
>just throw in some more clusters. And bash some more . I then strain
>off the juice through a cheese cloth and let it sit overnight before
>straining it again. Some junk will settle out over night . In my
>cooking pot I bring it up to just past steaming , not boiling , for 5
>minutes and add the sugar etc.. Cool and cast the yeast , After a week
>into the secondary. Make sure you use a malic tolerant yeast .
>
>Makes good jelly too.

I'm not too sure about the pie

The jelly is good and a friend used some to baste a pork roast. She
said it was excellent. The wine I have is now 2 years old and is very
good , like a sherry , much changed from when it was made. I used Laven
72B and some nutrient., 3 lbs of sugar for an imperial gallon . As an
aid to get the yeast going I used a couple of small , sliced lemons
floating in the primary with the yeast sprinkled around and on top of
them. I tried for 12% , my local wine store says it's 18%. But I think
they're high .

I may have to try that. Used Lalvin 71B-1122 with some nutrient,
followed Jack's recipe exactly. First batch didn't want to start, and
developed a funny smell. I added more nutrient and poured the must
from bucket to bucket, about 5 times in 2 days. That seemed to fix it.
I was a bit worried becuse the color changed from a red to orange, but
I think that was just the CO2 bubbles in it.
Stu

On 4 Dec 2005 18:37:54 -0800, "Davef" > wrote:

>As an
>aid to get the yeast going I used a couple of small , sliced lemons
>floating in the primary with the yeast sprinkled around and on top of
>them.

Mine finished and sparkles a clear pale orange colour. I didn't use
any campden , just heated it and made sure everything was nice and
clean. My notes say it started @ 1.105 and I stopped it @1.01, 35 days
later. Racked it into secondary after 6 days. No one knows what it is
and I usually give them a small sip to see if they like it. Nine out of
ten times they say "More please"