So, I want to throw a party around new years with some homebrew
champagne.

Heres what I am thinking:
1. Ferment a cheap white wine kit.
2. Put it on my homebrew kegerator (corny keg w/CO2 tank)
3. Artificialy carbonate it.
4. Serve.
5. Administer Ibuprofen.

One possible problem is that wine needs to be in the bottle a little
while to get over "bottle shock." Will this happen in a keg? What the
crap is "bottle shock anywho"

I am fairly new to fermentting wines.

Thanks, Jeff

wrote:
> wine needs to be in the bottle a little
> while to get over "bottle shock." Will this happen in a keg? What the
> crap is "bottle shock anywho"
>
> I am fairly new to fermentting wines.
>
> Thanks, Jeff

Bottle shock is a catchall term for many things -- basically a loss of
bouquet, and some flavor, caused by air exposure during the wine's
transfer during the last rack into the bottles.

Your forced carbonation will affectively mask this, but do try to get
it into the keg as early as you can, and leave it alone after that.

But in the end it is going to be fizzy cr*p!.
My sparkling wines by "Method Champagnoise takes about 2 years to be ready
to drink. I suggest your use a fizzy "pop" to produce a similar effect. It
certainly will not taste any worse!

Just my first visit in about 3 months. Back again in about another 3 months
if this is the standard of "wine making"

Bye again.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
Remove PSANTISPAM to reply
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> wine needs to be in the bottle a little
>> while to get over "bottle shock." Will this happen in a keg? What the
>> crap is "bottle shock anywho"
>>
>> I am fairly new to fermentting wines.
>>
>> Thanks, Jeff
>
> Bottle shock is a catchall term for many things -- basically a loss of
> bouquet, and some flavor, caused by air exposure during the wine's
> transfer during the last rack into the bottles.
>
> Your forced carbonation will affectively mask this, but do try to get
> it into the keg as early as you can, and leave it alone after that.
>

Wow, the snobbery.
Is the method champagnoise entirely diffrent than the fizzy pop method?
Or are they merely the difftrent name for the same process? Does
anybody know a good winemaking supplier that can sell large quantities
of fizzy pop?



Now, , thanks for the reply. Do you recomend
racking it in the keg and leaving it with Air in the headspace to help
bottle shock along, or carbonating it and then letting it be for a
while. Thanks, Jeff

Not being a snob, I get my fizzy pop at Walmart. Sam's Choice.
I would be interested in the fizzy pop method recipe, as I've never
heard of it. I'll try anything once.
wow
DAve

wrote:
> Wow, the snobbery.
> Is the method champagnoise entirely diffrent than the fizzy pop method?
> Or are they merely the difftrent name for the same process? Does
> anybody know a good winemaking supplier that can sell large quantities
> of fizzy pop?
>
>
>
> Now, , thanks for the reply. Do you recomend
> racking it in the keg and leaving it with Air in the headspace to help
> bottle shock along, or carbonating it and then letting it be for a
> while. Thanks, Jeff
>

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Wow, the snobbery.
> Is the method champagnoise entirely diffrent than the fizzy pop method?
> Or are they merely the difftrent name for the same process?

It's not a matter of snobbery; more a matter of _taste_.

Why do you suppose Champagne is so expen$ive? If it were easy to reproduce
by quick and dirty methods why would anyone bother doing it the laborious,
old fashioned way?

Do your guests a favor and go buy some of the real thing* this year (and
possibly the next as well) and do a little reading up on how methode
champenois is made.
* meant to include sparkling wine from any country, made by the MC process.

Tom S

Actually, it is snobbery. It was a matter of taste when it was kept to
yourself.

Definetion of a snod (taken from dictionary.com)
One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in
matters of taste or intellect

Hmm.

As for the advise to buy my friends the real stuff. No. Many of my
parties are somewhat of a legend amunst my friends and other circles in
town. They aren't that way because I followed the advice of snobs.

Sorry for threatening peoples way of life; as I so clearly have have.

They are just different, that's all. Most prefer the taste you get
when you ferment in the bottle. The longer you keep the yeast that
fermented it in the bottle with the wine the more it imparts a sort of
creamy taste. I have a few bottles of Seyval left from 1997 made this
way and quite a few made in 1999 and 2000. All sit on the yeast for a
few years. it's a style, just like beer and ale making have different
styles of treating the same raw materials.

You can certainly make carbonated wine by your method but it will be
very young and won't taste much like true champagne. That does not mean
it will be awful either, just not the same. If you want to do this you
may want to start with a fruity wine and maybe leave it a bit sweet so
it masks the youth; then carbonate and drink within a few weeks or keep
it very cold. You do not want the added sugar to create more pressure.


Another cheap and easy way to do this is to just add any carbonated
soda to an average bottle of white wine right at the beginning of your
get together. Ginger ale, Seven Up, any sweet light drink can be used
to make 'coolers'.

It's actually a common technique used to cover up wine flaws; if you
make something sweet enough it usually taste good. Coca Cola would not
get anywhere telling you it's a flavored blend of water, sugar and
phosphoric acid but that is what it is. (It's food grade phosphoric and
I like Coke by the way, the level of acid in it is similar to wine
levels...)

Hope that helps.

Joe
wrote:

> Wow, the snobbery.
> Is the method champagnoise entirely diffrent than the fizzy pop method?
> Or are they merely the difftrent name for the same process? >

wrote:
> Wow, the snobbery.

Hey, watch the name calling. You started this you know, asking what
bottle shock "crap" was, when a simple google search could have filled
it all in. Just cause we care doesn't make us all snobs. You keggers
have terms that the uninitiated don't understand.

> Is the method champagnoise entirely diffrent than the fizzy pop method?
> Or are they merely the difftrent name for the same process? Does
> anybody know a good winemaking supplier that can sell large quantities
> of fizzy pop?

Plenty of manufacturer's of sparkling wines use force carbonation. The
traditional "methode Champagnoise" is not the only way wine is made
sparkling in the bottle. Although, many people believe it produces
superior bubbles -- tiny, that rise one after another in streams when
served in a flute. But I doubt the supermarket discount champale
manufacture involves a riddling board.

>
> Now, , thanks for the reply. Do you recomend
> racking it in the keg and leaving it with Air in the headspace to help
> bottle shock along, or carbonating it and then letting it be for a
> while. Thanks, Jeff

You want to avoid air exposure of finished wine. It ruins the taste.
Unfortunately, I don't understand how kegs work. I'd guess you should
complete the wine, fill the keg completely full, so there's no air
space, is that allowed with a keg? Or force carbonate and leave under
pressure for a month and a half or two, is that ok with a keg? You
need time for the wine to react with what little air you've mixed in,
and the pressure will keep more air out.

If you're going to age for six months, you can rest assured moderate
air exposure will have caused bottle shock, and then the wine will have
repaired itself. You have to avoid the cause of bottle shock for the 2
months between now and Dec. 31.

FWIW, I intend to have my 4 gallons of hard cider be slighty sparkling
in the bottle. I will rack, prime with sugar and seal. The cider will
throw more lees, but I'm not going to spend months riddling the
sediment to the neck, freezing it with dry ice, ejecting the frozen
plug, and topping up before I age more. I'll just have everyone be
careful when they pour.

After reading this thread and having a good laugh, I thought I'd throw in my
5 cents. I say if you want to go cheap, go all the way. I've recently read
about purple magic, which is simply fermented grape flavored Kool-Aid, you
know, the kind of stuff one makes in jail. I suggest you throw in a few
cans of sweetened Kool-Aid in your keg, add water and yeast, then put the
lid on, just wait a couple of weeks and voilà, cheap champagne for a party
where people just want to get drunk and have fun.

Marc

> a écrit dans le message de
oups.com...
> So, I want to throw a party around new years with some homebrew
> champagne.
>
> Heres what I am thinking:
> 1. Ferment a cheap white wine kit.
> 2. Put it on my homebrew kegerator (corny keg w/CO2 tank)
> 3. Artificialy carbonate it.
> 4. Serve.
> 5. Administer Ibuprofen.
>
> One possible problem is that wine needs to be in the bottle a little
> while to get over "bottle shock." Will this happen in a keg? What the
> crap is "bottle shock anywho"
>
> I am fairly new to fermentting wines.
>
> Thanks, Jeff
>

On 6 Nov 2005 08:48:31 -0800, wrote:

>So, I want to throw a party around new years with some homebrew
>champagne.
>
>Heres what I am thinking:
>1. Ferment a cheap white wine kit.
>2. Put it on my homebrew kegerator (corny keg w/CO2 tank)
>3. Artificialy carbonate it.
>4. Serve.
>5. Administer Ibuprofen.
>
>One possible problem is that wine needs to be in the bottle a little
>while to get over "bottle shock." Will this happen in a keg? What the
>crap is "bottle shock anywho"
>
>I am fairly new to fermentting wines.
>
>Thanks, Jeff


Why not purchase a couple of sparkling wine kits?

Later,
A.J.

Well, here I go agian.
Sorry for using the word cr*p. I will concede that. As for the easy
question about bottle shock, well you'all can deal with it.

So the air I mix in just by racking it will be enough for the champagne
to get over bottle shock? I'll fill the keg, fill the head space with
inert C02, then pressurize it. Then I'l let it sit for a few months.
Seeings I am using an el cheapo white wine, 2 months should actually
put it at it's prime. I do expect, "tiny, that rise one after another
in streams when served in a flute." Or a champagnr bong for that
matter.

I agree on needing a sweet one. Although I prefer a dry champagne, I do
agee that some sweetness will mask some of the ghettoness.

As for the kool-aid. My friend did this. It works. Interested pinky? It
taste too much along the line of Mikes Hard Lemonade and the likes for
my.

First off, I agree that Pinky's reply was snobby and ridiculous.

This is supposed to be a group for all levels of winemaking, from
decades of experience trying to trouble-shoot a unique problem right on
down (or up?) to first-timers trying to make pop wine for new year's.

If you don't like the post, or think it's beneath you, then just don't
reply--it's that easy.

A reply like Pinky's serves no purpose than to say that he feels he's
above this poster based solely on his level of wine experience.


Now, on to the heart of the matter.

What you'll produce the way you are suggesting will certainly not rival
any commercial bottling.

That's not to say that there aren't artificially carbonated commercial
wines--in fact, I believe that Moscato D'Asti is artificially
carbonated and it is considered a fine wine. If I'm wrong about this,
there are still plenty of commercial bottlings like spumante's or
"sparkling wines" that are carbonated the same way that pop is.

If Baby Duck can sell well and be drank by many on New Year's, yours
should go over just fine...and if it sucks, no one will notice by the
end of the keg !!!

wrote:

> So the air I mix in just by racking it will be enough for the champagne
> to get over bottle shock?'

I'm going to tell you one more time time: Air causes bottles shock.
Expose your wine to less air, not more, if you intend to drink a wine
young.

> I'll fill the keg, fill the head space with
> inert C02, then pressurize it. Then I'l let it sit for a few months.
> Seeings I am using an el cheapo white wine, 2 months should actually
> put it at it's prime. I do expect, "tiny, that rise one after another
> in streams when served in a flute." Or a champagnr bong for that
> matter.

The story I heard is that fine bubbles is exactly what you won't get
from force carbonation. Your mileage may vary. Have you ever made
soda pop? If so, how were the bubbles in that case? You don't want
the champage to foam like freshly opened soda, and it shouldn't have a
head like a beer.

> I agree on needing a sweet one. Although I prefer a dry champagne, I do
> agee that some sweetness will mask some of the ghettoness.

For a party full of non-homebrewers and winemakers, I think sweet and
fruity are what you want. Sparkling wines are a little more acid than
still. I suggest adding the juice of a small lemon and orange to any
kit you buy. Unless it comes with acid mix, and more than enough for
one batch, then you can tip in 50 % more for the yeast to use some, and
leave some excess. Carbonation will change the the sensation of
balance.

I mentioned in another thread, my slapped together Welches Frozen White
is as good as any 5 dollar white. My friend's all enjoy it. If I had
5 gallons of it, and a force carbonator, and a fridge to hold a keg,
I'd thorw a kickin' party as well.

"Marc" > wrote in message
.. .
> After reading this thread and having a good laugh, I thought I'd throw in
> my
> 5 cents. I say if you want to go cheap, go all the way. I've recently
> read
> about purple magic, which is simply fermented grape flavored Kool-Aid, you
> know, the kind of stuff one makes in jail. I suggest you throw in a few
> cans of sweetened Kool-Aid in your keg, add water and yeast, then put the
> lid on, just wait a couple of weeks and voilà, cheap champagne for a party
> where people just want to get drunk and have fun.

They won't get very drunk from that combo. That's basically the same as
making homemade root beer, which ends up at ~½% alcohol. The pressure
formed by the action of the yeast on the sugar tops out at about 90 psi, at
which time the fermentation stops because the gas has nowhere to go.

To end up with significant alcohol in that brew you'd need to ferment
without pressure to whatever alcohol you want, say 12-13%, and _then_ cork
it up and apply CO2 pressure - either from continued fermentation or a CO2
tank. Mind you, watch the pressure you apply to that keg. The ones I have
warn of bursting if the pressure exceeds 60 psi. That'd make quite a mess,
and could easily get someone hurt.

BTW, dispensing the stuff from a tapper (like beer) will suck the lees into
each glassful because the siphon goes all the way to the bottom of the tank.
Best would be to rack from the lees into a second tapper that you pressurize
and chill for serving.

Tom S

Although this was intended as a silly joke, I suspected every
counter-indications you're enumerating here (I never worked with kegs yet).
I appreciate the detailed explanation and if one day I end up in jail for
whatever reason, I'll make sure I don't get lees in my purple magic

Marc

"Tom S" > a écrit dans le message de
m...
>
> "Marc" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > After reading this thread and having a good laugh, I thought I'd throw
in
> > my
> > 5 cents. I say if you want to go cheap, go all the way. I've recently
> > read
> > about purple magic, which is simply fermented grape flavored Kool-Aid,
you
> > know, the kind of stuff one makes in jail. I suggest you throw in a few
> > cans of sweetened Kool-Aid in your keg, add water and yeast, then put
the
> > lid on, just wait a couple of weeks and voilà, cheap champagne for a
party
> > where people just want to get drunk and have fun.
>
> They won't get very drunk from that combo. That's basically the same as
> making homemade root beer, which ends up at ~½% alcohol. The pressure
> formed by the action of the yeast on the sugar tops out at about 90 psi,
at
> which time the fermentation stops because the gas has nowhere to go.
>
> To end up with significant alcohol in that brew you'd need to ferment
> without pressure to whatever alcohol you want, say 12-13%, and _then_ cork
> it up and apply CO2 pressure - either from continued fermentation or a CO2
> tank. Mind you, watch the pressure you apply to that keg. The ones I
have
> warn of bursting if the pressure exceeds 60 psi. That'd make quite a
mess,
> and could easily get someone hurt.
>
> BTW, dispensing the stuff from a tapper (like beer) will suck the lees
into
> each glassful because the siphon goes all the way to the bottom of the
tank.
> Best would be to rack from the lees into a second tapper that you
pressurize
> and chill for serving.
>
> Tom S
>
>

Well P.S. our wine club has a Champagne party every July. Members bring
homemade sparkling wine, store bought and in one instance a keg of
carbonated white wine. The fellow that made the keg sparkler is a
professional winemaker and he made this up at the last minute. It was all
foam.

I'm also a beer maker and have lots of experience with 5-gallon soda kegs.
If you go ahead with your plan be sure to avoid any air in contact with your
wine. Air and wine mixed together, even for a day, will lead to oxidation
and you will hate the result. To do this fill the keg to the brim with
water. Seal and pressurize. Then empty the keg through the tap which
leaves you with a CO2 filled keg. Bleed off the pressure and carefully open
the top. Add your wine. Seal and pressurize. Chill and check pressure
again. If you use a short hose to the tap you will end up releasing all the
carbonation as soon as the wine is dispensed...a glass of foam with no
residual CO2 to form those nice little bubbles. Use a long hose...about 8
feet between the keg and tap. This will let you pour a glass of sparkling
wine that will resemble Champagne. Good luck.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well, here I go agian.
> Sorry for using the word cr*p. I will concede that. As for the easy
> question about bottle shock, well you'all can deal with it.
>
> So the air I mix in just by racking it will be enough for the champagne
> to get over bottle shock? I'll fill the keg, fill the head space with
> inert C02, then pressurize it. Then I'l let it sit for a few months.
> Seeings I am using an el cheapo white wine, 2 months should actually
> put it at it's prime. I do expect, "tiny, that rise one after another
> in streams when served in a flute." Or a champagnr bong for that
> matter.
>
> I agree on needing a sweet one. Although I prefer a dry champagne, I do
> agee that some sweetness will mask some of the ghettoness.
>
> As for the kool-aid. My friend did this. It works. Interested pinky? It
> taste too much along the line of Mikes Hard Lemonade and the likes for
> my.
>

>
> I am fairly new to fermentting wines.
>


your spelling is atrocious, but you don't ferment wine, you allow
yeast to ferment sugar. That's the essence of the whole thing.

--
billb
Since time immemorial, the powerful have used religion to distract
the oppressed, to encourage them to focus on the next world so that
they will acquiesce to the injustices of this world. If you would
have your slaves remain docile, teach them hymns.
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> So, I want to throw a party around new years with some homebrew
> champagne.
>
> Heres what I am thinking:
> 1. Ferment a cheap white wine kit.
> 2. Put it on my homebrew kegerator (corny keg w/CO2 tank)
> 3. Artificialy carbonate it.
> 4. Serve.
> 5. Administer Ibuprofen.
>
> One possible problem is that wine needs to be in the bottle a
little
> while to get over "bottle shock." Will this happen in a keg? What
the
> crap is "bottle shock anywho"
> Thanks, Jeff
>

you haven't threatened shit there pal, you just relax. And frankly
the kind of wine I make and drink involves even less work that what
you propose.

and if you want to invite me over to try your stuff, that'd be nice,
and you are invited to try mine anytime you are in Vegas.

--
billb
Since time immemorial, the powerful have used religion to distract
the oppressed, to encourage them to focus on the next world so that
they will acquiesce to the injustices of this world. If you would
have your slaves remain docile, teach them hymns.
> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Actually, it is snobbery. It was a matter of taste when it was kept
to
> yourself.
>
> Definetion of a snod (taken from dictionary.com)
> One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in
> matters of taste or intellect
>
> Hmm.
>
> As for the advise to buy my friends the real stuff. No. Many of my
> parties are somewhat of a legend amunst my friends and other
circles in
> town. They aren't that way because I followed the advice of snobs.
>
> Sorry for threatening peoples way of life; as I so clearly have
have.
>

Well, I use champagne yeast alot. For most of my home wine
making(SHOCK)!! It ferments fast and dry. It uses up alot of sugar and
makes a strong brew. I then stabilize when it is strong enough and add
disolved sugar to the sweetness I like. I use it for my ginger beer
also.
Mike

wrote:
>
> So, I want to throw a party around new years with some homebrew
> champagne.
>
> Heres what I am thinking:
> 1. Ferment a cheap white wine kit.
> 2. Put it on my homebrew kegerator (corny keg w/CO2 tank)
> 3. Artificialy carbonate it.
> 4. Serve.
> 5. Administer Ibuprofen.
>
> One possible problem is that wine needs to be in the bottle a little
> while to get over "bottle shock." Will this happen in a keg? What the
> crap is "bottle shock anywho"
>
> I am fairly new to fermentting wines.
>
> Thanks, Jeff

--
"The best and the most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or
even touched. They must be felt in the heart." -- Helen Keller

I would do a secondary ferment in the keg and force carb only if nessessary.
Maybe add just a bit of sugar to induce a nice secondary. This gives you
tight bubbles.

Hickster

"Mike Bernardoni" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I use champagne yeast alot. For most of my home wine
> making(SHOCK)!! It ferments fast and dry. It uses up alot of sugar and
> makes a strong brew. I then stabilize when it is strong enough and add
> disolved sugar to the sweetness I like. I use it for my ginger beer
> also.
> Mike
>
> wrote:
>>
>> So, I want to throw a party around new years with some homebrew
>> champagne.
>>
>> Heres what I am thinking:
>> 1. Ferment a cheap white wine kit.
>> 2. Put it on my homebrew kegerator (corny keg w/CO2 tank)
>> 3. Artificialy carbonate it.
>> 4. Serve.
>> 5. Administer Ibuprofen.
>>
>> One possible problem is that wine needs to be in the bottle a little
>> while to get over "bottle shock." Will this happen in a keg? What the
>> crap is "bottle shock anywho"
>>
>> I am fairly new to fermentting wines.
>>
>> Thanks, Jeff
>
> --
> "The best and the most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or
> even touched. They must be felt in the heart." -- Helen Keller