Another rest period.
 

Every so often on here, I just get to a state where I feel the need to
refrain from visiting very often and to have a period of a couple of
months, or so, where I am absent from the posting lists. There really are
too many repeat queries about the same subject. And too many silly questions
where no effort has been made before jumping in at the deep end!
Also a lot of questions are asked where the questioner has already made up
his/her mind and just wants confirmation -- and rejects any contrary
advice given.
It continues to be, on the whole, a good group, but I believe that we all
need to take a back seat now and again ( especially me -- I find that my
fuse timing gets shorter by the week -- and day eventually.
Tell Brian Lundeen he is back on my barred list again( I am in the middle of
transferring all my data from old to new pc and I am not prepared to listen
to him -- just my option -- a history thing -- which nobody need worry
about)
In my 69th year I feel that I may pander too much to my own whims and
opinions occasionally. I am nothing if not self opinionated and that is
unlikely to change.

So it is time for another "absence". I shall not even look in for a month.

There really is a very different flavour to this group now to a year ago. Or
I am getting to old. Probably a bit of both

BFN


--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
Remove PSANTISPAM to reply

> There really is a very different flavour to this group now to a year ago.
> Or I am getting to old. Probably a bit of both

Trevor - Just some old names gone and new names added. It's still
winemaking to me.
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

BTW - the Kansas City area looks better to me than ever (lived here over 60
yrs)...no hurricanes, no earthquakes, no real blizzards...just 4 seasons and
lots of sun.

Hi Trevor,
I know what you mean but it's winemaking time in North America; I
appreciated the help I have gotten in the past from this group and
return the favor when able.
Take care.

Joe

In article >,
William Frazier > writes
>Trevor - Just some old names gone and new names added. It's still
>winemaking to me.

Agreed Bill. This is a most helpful and instructive group with very
little of the rancour seen in some Usenet groups. I have learned much in
the few weeks I have been here and I intend to continue doing that.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
> BTW - the Kansas City area looks better to me than ever (lived here over
> 60 yrs)...no hurricanes, no earthquakes, no real blizzards...

Careful, Bill. Saying something like that is just _begging_ for a twister!
=>8^O

Tom S

Pinky wrote:

> Every so often on here, I just get to a state where I feel the need to
> refrain from visiting very often and to have a period of a couple of
> months, or so, where I am absent from the posting lists. There really are
> too many repeat queries about the same subject. And too many silly
> questions where no effort has been made before jumping in at the deep end!
> Also a lot of questions are asked where the questioner has already made up
> his/her mind and just wants confirmation -- and rejects any contrary
> advice given.
> It continues to be, on the whole, a good group, but I believe that we all
> need to take a back seat now and again ( especially me -- I find that my
> fuse timing gets shorter by the week -- and day eventually.
> Tell Brian Lundeen he is back on my barred list again( I am in the middle
> of transferring all my data from old to new pc and I am not prepared to
> listen
> to him -- just my option -- a history thing -- which nobody need worry
> about)
> In my 69th year I feel that I may pander too much to my own whims and
> opinions occasionally. I am nothing if not self opinionated and that is
> unlikely to change.
>
> So it is time for another "absence". I shall not even look in for a month.
>
> There really is a very different flavour to this group now to a year ago.
> Or I am getting to old. Probably a bit of both
>
> BFN
>
>

Trevor, if you are not learning anything new perhaps you could suggest some
subjects that you would like to learn more about. Maybe you can provide
that "Spark" that you find missing.

"Pinky" > wrote in message
.uk...
> Every so often on here, I just get to a state where I feel the need to
> refrain from visiting very often and to have a period of a couple of
> months, or so, where I am absent from the posting lists.

Hi, Trevor -
Enjoy your vacation/rest. Somebody will fill in for you as best as they
can.

Tom S

Trevor A Panther wrote:
> There really are too many repeat queries about the same subject. And too many > silly questions where no effort has been made before jumping in at the deep
> end!

Indeed, this seems a recurring theme. (In fact, it was only a couple of
years ago when Trevor brought this up previously - and had a break from
the group.) I suppose that's just the way things are here - some
people just don't spend the time doing searches or reading the FAQ. But
I would say that for the rest of us this frustration has been worth it
for the occassional nugget.

> There really is a very different flavour to this group now to a year ago. Or
> I am getting to old. Probably a bit of both

I would agree with that, but then perhaps it is actually more to do
with where my winemaking has come to (compared with those who frequent
this group) than anything else.

Paul E. Lehmann wrote:
> if you are not learning anything new perhaps you could suggest some
> subjects that you would like to learn more about

Fair enough, but often I feel the responses to more unusual questions
are not very insightful/knowledgable. That is not meant as a criticism
of responsees, just a comment about where people's winemaking is at on
a philosophical level and what *kind* of questions are asked. Largely,
the frequenters of this group share some broad-ranging cross-over
areas, yet tend to never explore certain others. I think that's more a
matter of luck with UseNet.

Ben

In article . com>,
writes
> - some
>people just don't spend the time doing searches or reading the FAQ.

As a fairly new contributor to this group, I have raised points which
have probably been asked often before. I still do have some fairly basic
issues I would like to discuss with more experienced winemakers, just
one example being extended fermentation. I would not wish to do that to
anybody's annoyance however and I would be only too ready to read
relevant FAQs. Could somebody please give me the location. TIA.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

To tell you the truth I'm pretty sure no one is maintaining it now, but
here is Dons original link.

http://www.malak.ca/rcw.faq

Joe

Joe Sallustio wrote:

> To tell you the truth I'm pretty sure no one is maintaining it now, but
> here is Dons original link.
>
> http://www.malak.ca/rcw.faq
>
> Joe

One think I really enjoy about this newsgroup is the LACK of replies stating
read the f...... FAQ, as.....

This is the typical response one finds on computer language newsgroups,
operating systems newsgroups etc but so far, fortunately, this is NOT the
predominant response on this newsgroup.

For those willing to help newcomers, I applaud, even if it means that some
more knowledgeage may find the answers boring and repetitive. I have been
surprised, however, that even though I know the answer a "Newbie" may ask,
the responses often shed new light on issues or related issues that would
not be covered by just reading the f...... FAQs and I myself sometimes
learn something new or reconsider some things I THOUGHT i knew or
understood.

I agree with Paul. I do not really care for the groups that maintain FAQ's
and expect people to go to them. They tend to develop into experts only
groups that come across as being a bit snooty. New winemakers do not
understand that their question is just subtlety different from someone
else's. They think it is really different. I would rather the group help
everyone in real time.

I like Trevor and enjoy his posts but I differ with him on this topic. I
also agree with Paul that maybe those of us that have been around a long
time should be posting some issues for discussion that are beyond the
basics. It would keep the group from going stale.

Ray

"Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote in message
...
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>
>> To tell you the truth I'm pretty sure no one is maintaining it now, but
>> here is Dons original link.
>>
>> http://www.malak.ca/rcw.faq
>>
>> Joe
>
> One think I really enjoy about this newsgroup is the LACK of replies
> stating
> read the f...... FAQ, as.....
>
> This is the typical response one finds on computer language newsgroups,
> operating systems newsgroups etc but so far, fortunately, this is NOT the
> predominant response on this newsgroup.
>
> For those willing to help newcomers, I applaud, even if it means that some
> more knowledgeage may find the answers boring and repetitive. I have been
> surprised, however, that even though I know the answer a "Newbie" may ask,
> the responses often shed new light on issues or related issues that would
> not be covered by just reading the f...... FAQs and I myself sometimes
> learn something new or reconsider some things I THOUGHT i knew or
> understood.

You know, i will throw my hat in, becasue I am most likely the one that
answers new users/redundtant/basic/faq covered questions. My response
is....

Why not? It is not like there is an excessive amount of scroll here.
There are only a couple of posts a day, even if you only check in once
a week that is not all that much to read....and you can skip anything
you do not find interesting.

On the other hand, just by answering the questions as they get asked,
it allows for users to get relatively quick current opinions on a
subject, even one as basic as sanitation. The roll call of current
readers changes frequently, as people learn enough they stop reading
the group. It happens. I would not let the threat of someone not
reading detract from the dozens of people that do read it. It is a
public group, lets not make it a stale elietist only group that never
has anything new or interested poisted.

Quote....(Indeed, this seems a recurring theme. (In fact, it was only a
couple of
years ago when Trevor brought this up previously - and had a break from

the group.) I suppose that's just the way things are here - some
people just don't spend the time doing searches or reading the
FAQ}......end Quote

Hi ...just a thought here but the internet is such a time suck at the
best of times why should we spend hours searching page after page of
search results??....should we now feel guilty about repeating an
question that was asked a few months or even a few years ago?...I
think not ....I for one will ask away Jose.....andy j

A "newbie perspective".
I always try to title my queries with a "newbie" category when
possible.
My experience in this group has been totally positive to date.
I also have always received timely relevant feedback to my queries.
I believe my first batch of fresh fruit wine will likely be a success
and in no small part to the valuable feedback I received from members
of this group.
Perhaps there are too many "How do I ??" and not enough thank you very
much.
So,,, thank you very much.

You want elitist? check out alt.food.wine now THAT's elitist. You gotta wear
a bullet proof vest to voice a contrary opinion on that group. It blows me
that so many who merely taste the wine have so much more to critisize about
it than those of us (even at the most basic level) who endure the rainy
summers, hail, mold and frost of grape growing, and then struggle with stuck
fermentations and wrong pH and and hydrogen sulfide and acidity of
vinification.

This group can't get elitist. Anyone who has had to dump liters of spoiled
wine, and then hand a 400 dollar barrel to his wife as a flower pot because
the bacteria makes it useless for anything else will tell you grape growing
and winemaking is too much of a humiliating experience to allow elitism.
Let the questions come, simple or complex. If you've got the passion there
is no such thing as a stupid question. Even the basic ones. That's what
makes this community so cool. To coin the expression of my next door
neighbour: "dare to fail".

That's an invitation.

The beauty of it is, when you can ask any question about wine or grapes (or
fruit) without embarrassment and get a decent answer that enhances both your
dignity and your batch.

Jeff