Hello all,

I am hoping that you all might be able to help me out. I have made two
wines from kits, and one wine from fresh berries. The bouquet of the wines
I have made have always been good; however, the actual taste and aftertaste
of the wine has been .. well .. not so great. It has a bitter taste to it,
and is also very alocholic tasting although the actual alcohol content I do
not believe is that high. Do you have any suggestions on what I might try
to avoid this in the future? What causes this bitterness? I have read on
the Internet that the bitterness or astringent taste can be caused by too
many tannins in the wine. I also learned that this could be due to crushing
the fruit to violently. I had two wines made from kits in which concentrate
was the initial starting point. Crushing the fruit too hard or fast would
not have caused these wines to develop with this bitterness as I had no part
in producing the concentrate that I purchased. I heard that PVPP or egg
whites could be used to help pull the tannin taste out of the wine, but I am
not sure that an overload of tannin in the wine is my problem. Any advice
would be gladly accepted. Please respond to my email if possible primarily,
or to the newsgroup if you cannot respond via email.

My email address is

I am responding on the NG. It is a good idea to do this since you will then
get more information/help from different people. Also other will also learn
from the ensuing posts. Which is how this NG works and why it is so
successful.

We need some more information before anyone can give you real help.
1. What is the fruit of the "fresh berry" wine. What sort of recipe did you
use?

2. What is the name of the wine kit i.e. both the name of the type of wine
( e.g. Merlot, Chardonnay ) and the name of the kit manufacturer( e.g.
Winexpert, Spagnols)? Did you read and follow the instructions???

3. As much information about the fermentation period that you can give.
a. Original SG
b. Final SG
c. Secondary fermentation -- did you rack off the fruit at all?

4. How old is the wine now. Has it only just finished fermenting? Was it
degassed? Has it been aged at all? Has it been stabilised? Has it been
bottled?

Try and give us at least the above information and anything else that will
indicate the sort of background to the wines made and even of your own
experience

Finally as a total guess --
I am suspecting that the wines are just much too young. Early tasting can
be confusing to a beginner. The bouquet and taste of wine, the feel of it in
the mouth, changes immensely with judicious "aging" New wine is inevitably
coarser than the aged product.

That's enough from me now. Try and see this reply as a pointer towards help.
If you respond I am sure that you will find the NG very useful


"John Fouts" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hello all,
>
> I am hoping that you all might be able to help me out. I have made two
> wines from kits, and one wine from fresh berries. The bouquet of the
> wines
> I have made have always been good; however, the actual taste and
> aftertaste
> of the wine has been .. well .. not so great. It has a bitter taste to
> it,
> and is also very alocholic tasting although the actual alcohol content I
> do
> not believe is that high. Do you have any suggestions on what I might try
> to avoid this in the future? What causes this bitterness? I have read on
> the Internet that the bitterness or astringent taste can be caused by too
> many tannins in the wine. I also learned that this could be due to
> crushing
> the fruit to violently. I had two wines made from kits in which
> concentrate
> was the initial starting point. Crushing the fruit too hard or fast would
> not have caused these wines to develop with this bitterness as I had no
> part
> in producing the concentrate that I purchased. I heard that PVPP or egg
> whites could be used to help pull the tannin taste out of the wine, but I
> am
> not sure that an overload of tannin in the wine is my problem. Any advice
> would be gladly accepted. Please respond to my email if possible
> primarily,
> or to the newsgroup if you cannot respond via email.
>
> My email address is
>
>
>
>

I would agree with everything Pinky said, it's probably just
'youngness' that you are tasting. Kit wines are usually not out of
balance, if anything they tend to stay on the low side of things to
make for earlier drinking. Young wine are usually not very pleasing,
time makes a world of difference.

The more we know about your actual wines the easier it will be to
answer. This is a very civil group and long posts with lots of detail
are not an issue. This group has a wide range of participation so feel
free to ask anything that comes up. It's not uncommon to get an answer
in hours.

We can help you with the science of winemaking but over time you will
see that it's more art than science. You need to balance the science
by developing your personal tasting skills. It's actually a good thing
that you realize you have a wine that is not exactly where you want it.
The art part comes into play in predicting where it will go from here.


Wines develop in the bottle, you use the science to determine when you
have the wine close enough to let it develop in peace and quiet.

Joe


Pinky wrote:
> I am responding on the NG. It is a good idea to do this since you will then
> get more information/help from different people. Also other will also learn
> from the ensuing posts. Which is how this NG works and why it is so
> successful.
>
> We need some more information before anyone can give you real help.
> 1. What is the fruit of the "fresh berry" wine. What sort of recipe did you
> use?
>
> 2. What is the name of the wine kit i.e. both the name of the type of wine
> ( e.g. Merlot, Chardonnay ) and the name of the kit manufacturer( e.g.
> Winexpert, Spagnols)? Did you read and follow the instructions???
>
> 3. As much information about the fermentation period that you can give.
> a. Original SG
> b. Final SG
> c. Secondary fermentation -- did you rack off the fruit at all?
>
> 4. How old is the wine now. Has it only just finished fermenting? Was it
> degassed? Has it been aged at all? Has it been stabilised? Has it been
> bottled?
>
> Try and give us at least the above information and anything else that will
> indicate the sort of background to the wines made and even of your own
> experience
>
> Finally as a total guess --
> I am suspecting that the wines are just much too young. Early tasting can
> be confusing to a beginner. The bouquet and taste of wine, the feel of it in
> the mouth, changes immensely with judicious "aging" New wine is inevitably
> coarser than the aged product.
>
> That's enough from me now. Try and see this reply as a pointer towards help.
> If you respond I am sure that you will find the NG very useful
>
>
> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I am hoping that you all might be able to help me out. I have made two
> > wines from kits, and one wine from fresh berries. The bouquet of the
> > wines
> > I have made have always been good; however, the actual taste and
> > aftertaste
> > of the wine has been .. well .. not so great. It has a bitter taste to
> > it,
> > and is also very alocholic tasting although the actual alcohol content I
> > do
> > not believe is that high. Do you have any suggestions on what I might try
> > to avoid this in the future? What causes this bitterness? I have read on
> > the Internet that the bitterness or astringent taste can be caused by too
> > many tannins in the wine. I also learned that this could be due to
> > crushing
> > the fruit to violently. I had two wines made from kits in which
> > concentrate
> > was the initial starting point. Crushing the fruit too hard or fast would
> > not have caused these wines to develop with this bitterness as I had no
> > part
> > in producing the concentrate that I purchased. I heard that PVPP or egg
> > whites could be used to help pull the tannin taste out of the wine, but I
> > am
> > not sure that an overload of tannin in the wine is my problem. Any advice
> > would be gladly accepted. Please respond to my email if possible
> > primarily,
> > or to the newsgroup if you cannot respond via email.
> >
> > My email address is
> >
> >
> >
> >

"Pinky" > wrote in message
. uk...
> I am responding on the NG. It is a good idea to do this since you will
then
> get more information/help from different people. Also other will also
learn
> from the ensuing posts. Which is how this NG works and why it is so
> successful.
>
> We need some more information before anyone can give you real help.
> 1. What is the fruit of the "fresh berry" wine. What sort of recipe did
you
> use?
>
Okay we will start with the strawberry. It was strawberry wine. I
handpicked the strawberries, crushed the berries by hand through cheesecloth
to get the juice. I used a recipe I found on the Internet for Strawberry
Wine. As for specifics, I can get those too if necessary.

> 2. What is the name of the wine kit i.e. both the name of the type of
wine
> ( e.g. Merlot, Chardonnay ) and the name of the kit manufacturer( e.g.
> Winexpert, Spagnols)? Did you read and follow the instructions???
>
The two wine kit wines that I made were as follows:

A.) Chablis Blush -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions explicitly.
This one tasted okay, but had a hint of a bitter flavor.

B.) Riesling -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
explicitly
This one taste like a 40 of Mickey's Malt Liquor that is flat.
Definitely not the way a Riesling should taste. The taste is similar to the
taste that I developed with the Chablis Blush, and now with the Strawberry.
I know it must be an error in the process because I am consistenly
developing similar tastes. It is very frustrating that they do not taste
good, but I am not planning on giving up anytime soon.


> 3. As much information about the fermentation period that you can give.
> a. Original SG
> b. Final SG

I do not have these numbers readily available as we recently moved.
The wine was not transported. I can tell you; however, that the specific
gravity measurements were exactly where the kits said they should be when
measured, when racked, and when bottled.

> c. Secondary fermentation -- did you rack off the fruit at all?

Yes I racked the fruit wine once, and it seemed to clear up very
well after that. I only racked it one time though. Should
I have done this more?
>
> 4. How old is the wine now. Has it only just finished fermenting? Was it
> degassed? Has it been aged at all? Has it been stabilised? Has it been
> bottled?

The Chablis has all been consumed, but it would be approximately one
year and 4 months old now. The Riesling is approximately 8 months old now,
and the Strawberry is approximately 4 months old now. I am not sure of the
degassing process. Can you explain this to me in detail? The wine has been
aged since bottling according to the numbers posed above. Yes it was
stabilized, and yes it has been bottled.

It does not taste like wine. I cannot explain the taste well. Perhaps if
you enter further directed questions I would be able to communicate more
effectively. I entered it into a wine competition in the Kentucky State
Fair. I knew it would not do well because it did not taste like it should,
but I wanted to gain exposure to events such as that.
>
> Try and give us at least the above information and anything else that will
> indicate the sort of background to the wines made and even of your own
> experience

With the kit wines I used potassium metabisulphite as a sterilization
agent....with the Strawberry wine I used Campden tablets. Could the levels
of the sulphites in my wine be the problem? What would this cause?
>
I do not know how to tell whether or not a wine will go bad. Can you
present this information? I was told strawberry wine will not be good after
6-12 months. How true is this?

> Finally as a total guess --
> I am suspecting that the wines are just much too young. Early tasting can
> be confusing to a beginner. The bouquet and taste of wine, the feel of it
in
> the mouth, changes immensely with judicious "aging" New wine is inevitably
> coarser than the aged product.
>
> That's enough from me now. Try and see this reply as a pointer towards
help.
> If you respond I am sure that you will find the NG very useful
>
>
> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I am hoping that you all might be able to help me out. I have made two
> > wines from kits, and one wine from fresh berries. The bouquet of the
> > wines
> > I have made have always been good; however, the actual taste and
> > aftertaste
> > of the wine has been .. well .. not so great. It has a bitter taste to
> > it,
> > and is also very alocholic tasting although the actual alcohol content I
> > do
> > not believe is that high. Do you have any suggestions on what I might
try
> > to avoid this in the future? What causes this bitterness? I have read
on
> > the Internet that the bitterness or astringent taste can be caused by
too
> > many tannins in the wine. I also learned that this could be due to
> > crushing
> > the fruit to violently. I had two wines made from kits in which
> > concentrate
> > was the initial starting point. Crushing the fruit too hard or fast
would
> > not have caused these wines to develop with this bitterness as I had no
> > part
> > in producing the concentrate that I purchased. I heard that PVPP or egg
> > whites could be used to help pull the tannin taste out of the wine, but
I
> > am
> > not sure that an overload of tannin in the wine is my problem. Any
advice
> > would be gladly accepted. Please respond to my email if possible
> > primarily,
> > or to the newsgroup if you cannot respond via email.
> >
> > My email address is
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

John,
I can't respond to the questions on your wine kits, but I have made
strawberry wine a number of times. You said the wine was 4 months old, you
racked it once, and you were not to happy with it. That may be a little
young to expect much, especially if you only racked it once.
Usually, I bottle my strawberry at about 7 months old and it has been
racked 2-4 times depending on how well it clears. Young wines usually
doesn't taste the best to begin with. It is kind of hard to describe the
yeasty, alcohol kick which you can taste in young wines. If you rack the
wine, and give the unfavorable stuff suspended in the wine to settle out,
and then give the wine a chance to age, you'll find the wine will taste much
different later on. The yeasty taste, and the alcohol taste will mellow out
over time. Since you can't give us the % alcohol by volume, nor what your
starting and ending SG was - its a bit hard for me suggest what else could
be wrong, although there are other possibilities.
May I suggest you hang in there and don't give up. Learning how to make
wine you will like does take time, but it worth the effort. If I might
suggest you take a look at Jack Keller's site homemade winemaking site
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp , you'll find a lot of good
information there.
As to your current strawberry batch, if you have not bottled it yet, I
would rack it again, make sure it is topped up and let it age some more. Do
you like dry wine? Bottle at 7 months, wait another month for bottle shock
to wear off, and try a bottle at eight months. Then wait another month or
two, and try another bottle. Maybe compare the recipe you had with the one
on Jack's site, see how things worked out, and try again. Good-luck.
Darlene
Wisconsin

"John Fouts" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pinky" > wrote in message
> . uk...
>> I am responding on the NG. It is a good idea to do this since you will
> then
>> get more information/help from different people. Also other will also
> learn
>> from the ensuing posts. Which is how this NG works and why it is so
>> successful.
>>
>> We need some more information before anyone can give you real help.
>> 1. What is the fruit of the "fresh berry" wine. What sort of recipe did
> you
>> use?
>>
> Okay we will start with the strawberry. It was strawberry wine. I
> handpicked the strawberries, crushed the berries by hand through
> cheesecloth
> to get the juice. I used a recipe I found on the Internet for Strawberry
> Wine. As for specifics, I can get those too if necessary.
>
>> 2. What is the name of the wine kit i.e. both the name of the type of
> wine
>> ( e.g. Merlot, Chardonnay ) and the name of the kit manufacturer( e.g.
>> Winexpert, Spagnols)? Did you read and follow the instructions???
>>
> The two wine kit wines that I made were as follows:
>
> A.) Chablis Blush -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
> explicitly.
> This one tasted okay, but had a hint of a bitter flavor.
>
> B.) Riesling -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
> explicitly
> This one taste like a 40 of Mickey's Malt Liquor that is flat.
> Definitely not the way a Riesling should taste. The taste is similar to
> the
> taste that I developed with the Chablis Blush, and now with the
> Strawberry.
> I know it must be an error in the process because I am consistenly
> developing similar tastes. It is very frustrating that they do not taste
> good, but I am not planning on giving up anytime soon.
>
>
>> 3. As much information about the fermentation period that you can give.
>> a. Original SG
>> b. Final SG
>
> I do not have these numbers readily available as we recently moved.
> The wine was not transported. I can tell you; however, that the specific
> gravity measurements were exactly where the kits said they should be when
> measured, when racked, and when bottled.
>
>> c. Secondary fermentation -- did you rack off the fruit at all?
>
> Yes I racked the fruit wine once, and it seemed to clear up very
> well after that. I only racked it one time though. Should
> I have done this more?
>>
>> 4. How old is the wine now. Has it only just finished fermenting? Was it
>> degassed? Has it been aged at all? Has it been stabilised? Has it been
>> bottled?
>
> The Chablis has all been consumed, but it would be approximately one
> year and 4 months old now. The Riesling is approximately 8 months old
> now,
> and the Strawberry is approximately 4 months old now. I am not sure of
> the
> degassing process. Can you explain this to me in detail? The wine has
> been
> aged since bottling according to the numbers posed above. Yes it was
> stabilized, and yes it has been bottled.
>
> It does not taste like wine. I cannot explain the taste well. Perhaps if
> you enter further directed questions I would be able to communicate more
> effectively. I entered it into a wine competition in the Kentucky State
> Fair. I knew it would not do well because it did not taste like it
> should,
> but I wanted to gain exposure to events such as that.
>>
>> Try and give us at least the above information and anything else that
>> will
>> indicate the sort of background to the wines made and even of your own
>> experience
>
> With the kit wines I used potassium metabisulphite as a sterilization
> agent....with the Strawberry wine I used Campden tablets. Could the
> levels
> of the sulphites in my wine be the problem? What would this cause?
>>
> I do not know how to tell whether or not a wine will go bad. Can you
> present this information? I was told strawberry wine will not be good
> after
> 6-12 months. How true is this?
>
>> Finally as a total guess --
>> I am suspecting that the wines are just much too young. Early tasting
>> can
>> be confusing to a beginner. The bouquet and taste of wine, the feel of it
> in
>> the mouth, changes immensely with judicious "aging" New wine is
>> inevitably
>> coarser than the aged product.
>>
>> That's enough from me now. Try and see this reply as a pointer towards
> help.
>> If you respond I am sure that you will find the NG very useful
>>
>>
>> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > I am hoping that you all might be able to help me out. I have made two
>> > wines from kits, and one wine from fresh berries. The bouquet of the
>> > wines
>> > I have made have always been good; however, the actual taste and
>> > aftertaste
>> > of the wine has been .. well .. not so great. It has a bitter taste to
>> > it,
>> > and is also very alocholic tasting although the actual alcohol content
>> > I
>> > do
>> > not believe is that high. Do you have any suggestions on what I might
> try
>> > to avoid this in the future? What causes this bitterness? I have read
> on
>> > the Internet that the bitterness or astringent taste can be caused by
> too
>> > many tannins in the wine. I also learned that this could be due to
>> > crushing
>> > the fruit to violently. I had two wines made from kits in which
>> > concentrate
>> > was the initial starting point. Crushing the fruit too hard or fast
> would
>> > not have caused these wines to develop with this bitterness as I had no
>> > part
>> > in producing the concentrate that I purchased. I heard that PVPP or
>> > egg
>> > whites could be used to help pull the tannin taste out of the wine, but
> I
>> > am
>> > not sure that an overload of tannin in the wine is my problem. Any
> advice
>> > would be gladly accepted. Please respond to my email if possible
>> > primarily,
>> > or to the newsgroup if you cannot respond via email.
>> >
>> > My email address is
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Wow. You guys really are fast with responses. The strawberry wine has
already been bottled. So you would suggest letting it age for a few more
months? I don't know if that will do any good, but I can try. It smells
really good, but it tastes not that good. It has a bite almost like whisky
it seems like. I will check out Jack's site and maybe try his recipe. Do
you think it is better to continue making one wine and perfecting it? Or to
try to make several different kinds of wine? Yes. I enjoy dry reds, but
really I like a large spectrum of dry to semi-dry sometimes even some sweet
wine is good.


"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
> John,
> I can't respond to the questions on your wine kits, but I have made
> strawberry wine a number of times. You said the wine was 4 months old, you
> racked it once, and you were not to happy with it. That may be a little
> young to expect much, especially if you only racked it once.
> Usually, I bottle my strawberry at about 7 months old and it has been
> racked 2-4 times depending on how well it clears. Young wines usually
> doesn't taste the best to begin with. It is kind of hard to describe the
> yeasty, alcohol kick which you can taste in young wines. If you rack the
> wine, and give the unfavorable stuff suspended in the wine to settle out,
> and then give the wine a chance to age, you'll find the wine will taste
much
> different later on. The yeasty taste, and the alcohol taste will mellow
out
> over time. Since you can't give us the % alcohol by volume, nor what your
> starting and ending SG was - its a bit hard for me suggest what else could
> be wrong, although there are other possibilities.
> May I suggest you hang in there and don't give up. Learning how to
make
> wine you will like does take time, but it worth the effort. If I might
> suggest you take a look at Jack Keller's site homemade winemaking site
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp , you'll find a lot of good
> information there.
> As to your current strawberry batch, if you have not bottled it yet, I
> would rack it again, make sure it is topped up and let it age some more.
Do
> you like dry wine? Bottle at 7 months, wait another month for bottle shock
> to wear off, and try a bottle at eight months. Then wait another month or
> two, and try another bottle. Maybe compare the recipe you had with the
one
> on Jack's site, see how things worked out, and try again. Good-luck.
> Darlene
> Wisconsin
>
> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Pinky" > wrote in message
> > . uk...
> >> I am responding on the NG. It is a good idea to do this since you will
> > then
> >> get more information/help from different people. Also other will also
> > learn
> >> from the ensuing posts. Which is how this NG works and why it is so
> >> successful.
> >>
> >> We need some more information before anyone can give you real help.
> >> 1. What is the fruit of the "fresh berry" wine. What sort of recipe
did
> > you
> >> use?
> >>
> > Okay we will start with the strawberry. It was strawberry wine. I
> > handpicked the strawberries, crushed the berries by hand through
> > cheesecloth
> > to get the juice. I used a recipe I found on the Internet for
Strawberry
> > Wine. As for specifics, I can get those too if necessary.
> >
> >> 2. What is the name of the wine kit i.e. both the name of the type of
> > wine
> >> ( e.g. Merlot, Chardonnay ) and the name of the kit manufacturer( e.g.
> >> Winexpert, Spagnols)? Did you read and follow the instructions???
> >>
> > The two wine kit wines that I made were as follows:
> >
> > A.) Chablis Blush -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
> > explicitly.
> > This one tasted okay, but had a hint of a bitter flavor.
> >
> > B.) Riesling -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
> > explicitly
> > This one taste like a 40 of Mickey's Malt Liquor that is flat.
> > Definitely not the way a Riesling should taste. The taste is similar to
> > the
> > taste that I developed with the Chablis Blush, and now with the
> > Strawberry.
> > I know it must be an error in the process because I am consistenly
> > developing similar tastes. It is very frustrating that they do not
taste
> > good, but I am not planning on giving up anytime soon.
> >
> >
> >> 3. As much information about the fermentation period that you can give.
> >> a. Original SG
> >> b. Final SG
> >
> > I do not have these numbers readily available as we recently
moved.
> > The wine was not transported. I can tell you; however, that the
specific
> > gravity measurements were exactly where the kits said they should be
when
> > measured, when racked, and when bottled.
> >
> >> c. Secondary fermentation -- did you rack off the fruit at all?
> >
> > Yes I racked the fruit wine once, and it seemed to clear up very
> > well after that. I only racked it one time though. Should
> > I have done this more?
> >>
> >> 4. How old is the wine now. Has it only just finished fermenting? Was
it
> >> degassed? Has it been aged at all? Has it been stabilised? Has it been
> >> bottled?
> >
> > The Chablis has all been consumed, but it would be approximately one
> > year and 4 months old now. The Riesling is approximately 8 months old
> > now,
> > and the Strawberry is approximately 4 months old now. I am not sure of
> > the
> > degassing process. Can you explain this to me in detail? The wine has
> > been
> > aged since bottling according to the numbers posed above. Yes it was
> > stabilized, and yes it has been bottled.
> >
> > It does not taste like wine. I cannot explain the taste well. Perhaps
if
> > you enter further directed questions I would be able to communicate more
> > effectively. I entered it into a wine competition in the Kentucky State
> > Fair. I knew it would not do well because it did not taste like it
> > should,
> > but I wanted to gain exposure to events such as that.
> >>
> >> Try and give us at least the above information and anything else that
> >> will
> >> indicate the sort of background to the wines made and even of your own
> >> experience
> >
> > With the kit wines I used potassium metabisulphite as a sterilization
> > agent....with the Strawberry wine I used Campden tablets. Could the
> > levels
> > of the sulphites in my wine be the problem? What would this cause?
> >>
> > I do not know how to tell whether or not a wine will go bad. Can you
> > present this information? I was told strawberry wine will not be good
> > after
> > 6-12 months. How true is this?
> >
> >> Finally as a total guess --
> >> I am suspecting that the wines are just much too young. Early tasting
> >> can
> >> be confusing to a beginner. The bouquet and taste of wine, the feel of
it
> > in
> >> the mouth, changes immensely with judicious "aging" New wine is
> >> inevitably
> >> coarser than the aged product.
> >>
> >> That's enough from me now. Try and see this reply as a pointer towards
> > help.
> >> If you respond I am sure that you will find the NG very useful
> >>
> >>
> >> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
> >> .. .
> >> > Hello all,
> >> >
> >> > I am hoping that you all might be able to help me out. I have made
two
> >> > wines from kits, and one wine from fresh berries. The bouquet of the
> >> > wines
> >> > I have made have always been good; however, the actual taste and
> >> > aftertaste
> >> > of the wine has been .. well .. not so great. It has a bitter taste
to
> >> > it,
> >> > and is also very alocholic tasting although the actual alcohol
content
> >> > I
> >> > do
> >> > not believe is that high. Do you have any suggestions on what I
might
> > try
> >> > to avoid this in the future? What causes this bitterness? I have
read
> > on
> >> > the Internet that the bitterness or astringent taste can be caused by
> > too
> >> > many tannins in the wine. I also learned that this could be due to
> >> > crushing
> >> > the fruit to violently. I had two wines made from kits in which
> >> > concentrate
> >> > was the initial starting point. Crushing the fruit too hard or fast
> > would
> >> > not have caused these wines to develop with this bitterness as I had
no
> >> > part
> >> > in producing the concentrate that I purchased. I heard that PVPP or
> >> > egg
> >> > whites could be used to help pull the tannin taste out of the wine,
but
> > I
> >> > am
> >> > not sure that an overload of tannin in the wine is my problem. Any
> > advice
> >> > would be gladly accepted. Please respond to my email if possible
> >> > primarily,
> >> > or to the newsgroup if you cannot respond via email.
> >> >
> >> > My email address is
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Personally, due to the amountof time involved before one batch of wine is
ready, and the fact I'm not sure which homemade wines I might like, I've
followed the policy of trying a lot of different recipes, or variation s on
same wine recipe, rather than makign one, waiting the 6 months - 2 years
before it's ready, decide if I like what I did, and try again, etc.
Personally, just can't see doing anything that time involved.

I just got started at the beginning of july, and currently am working on my
12th batch of wine(2 6 gallon winexpert kits, and 10 from juices or
canned/frozen/fresh fruits). Actually, I haven't even opened my first
bottle yet(though I tried a little bit of each of the kits, when bottling
the first one had half a bottle left at end, so drank thta, was obvoiusly
still too young, and then other kit required removing some of the wine, so
drank that).

Of course, this answer also depends on how much you drink. I tend to drink
between 10 and 30 bottles of wine a month, so I will keep this up for a
while, and then take a break, and probably have a year's worth of wine to
drink.

Joel
"John Fouts" > wrote in message
m...
> Wow. You guys really are fast with responses. The strawberry wine has
> already been bottled. So you would suggest letting it age for a few more
> months? I don't know if that will do any good, but I can try. It smells
> really good, but it tastes not that good. It has a bite almost like
> whisky
> it seems like. I will check out Jack's site and maybe try his recipe. Do
> you think it is better to continue making one wine and perfecting it? Or
> to
> try to make several different kinds of wine? Yes. I enjoy dry reds, but
> really I like a large spectrum of dry to semi-dry sometimes even some
> sweet
> wine is good.
>
>
> "Dar V" > wrote in message
> ...
>> John,
>> I can't respond to the questions on your wine kits, but I have made
>> strawberry wine a number of times. You said the wine was 4 months old,
>> you
>> racked it once, and you were not to happy with it. That may be a little
>> young to expect much, especially if you only racked it once.
>> Usually, I bottle my strawberry at about 7 months old and it has been
>> racked 2-4 times depending on how well it clears. Young wines usually
>> doesn't taste the best to begin with. It is kind of hard to describe the
>> yeasty, alcohol kick which you can taste in young wines. If you rack the
>> wine, and give the unfavorable stuff suspended in the wine to settle out,
>> and then give the wine a chance to age, you'll find the wine will taste
> much
>> different later on. The yeasty taste, and the alcohol taste will mellow
> out
>> over time. Since you can't give us the % alcohol by volume, nor what your
>> starting and ending SG was - its a bit hard for me suggest what else
>> could
>> be wrong, although there are other possibilities.
>> May I suggest you hang in there and don't give up. Learning how to
> make
>> wine you will like does take time, but it worth the effort. If I might
>> suggest you take a look at Jack Keller's site homemade winemaking site
>> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp , you'll find a lot of good
>> information there.
>> As to your current strawberry batch, if you have not bottled it yet,
>> I
>> would rack it again, make sure it is topped up and let it age some more.
> Do
>> you like dry wine? Bottle at 7 months, wait another month for bottle
>> shock
>> to wear off, and try a bottle at eight months. Then wait another month or
>> two, and try another bottle. Maybe compare the recipe you had with the
> one
>> on Jack's site, see how things worked out, and try again. Good-luck.
>> Darlene
>> Wisconsin
>>
>> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Pinky" > wrote in message
>> > . uk...
>> >> I am responding on the NG. It is a good idea to do this since you will
>> > then
>> >> get more information/help from different people. Also other will also
>> > learn
>> >> from the ensuing posts. Which is how this NG works and why it is so
>> >> successful.
>> >>
>> >> We need some more information before anyone can give you real help.
>> >> 1. What is the fruit of the "fresh berry" wine. What sort of recipe
> did
>> > you
>> >> use?
>> >>
>> > Okay we will start with the strawberry. It was strawberry wine. I
>> > handpicked the strawberries, crushed the berries by hand through
>> > cheesecloth
>> > to get the juice. I used a recipe I found on the Internet for
> Strawberry
>> > Wine. As for specifics, I can get those too if necessary.
>> >
>> >> 2. What is the name of the wine kit i.e. both the name of the type of
>> > wine
>> >> ( e.g. Merlot, Chardonnay ) and the name of the kit manufacturer(
>> >> e.g.
>> >> Winexpert, Spagnols)? Did you read and follow the instructions???
>> >>
>> > The two wine kit wines that I made were as follows:
>> >
>> > A.) Chablis Blush -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
>> > explicitly.
>> > This one tasted okay, but had a hint of a bitter flavor.
>> >
>> > B.) Riesling -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
>> > explicitly
>> > This one taste like a 40 of Mickey's Malt Liquor that is flat.
>> > Definitely not the way a Riesling should taste. The taste is similar
>> > to
>> > the
>> > taste that I developed with the Chablis Blush, and now with the
>> > Strawberry.
>> > I know it must be an error in the process because I am consistenly
>> > developing similar tastes. It is very frustrating that they do not
> taste
>> > good, but I am not planning on giving up anytime soon.
>> >
>> >
>> >> 3. As much information about the fermentation period that you can
>> >> give.
>> >> a. Original SG
>> >> b. Final SG
>> >
>> > I do not have these numbers readily available as we recently
> moved.
>> > The wine was not transported. I can tell you; however, that the
> specific
>> > gravity measurements were exactly where the kits said they should be
> when
>> > measured, when racked, and when bottled.
>> >
>> >> c. Secondary fermentation -- did you rack off the fruit at all?
>> >
>> > Yes I racked the fruit wine once, and it seemed to clear up very
>> > well after that. I only racked it one time though. Should
>> > I have done this more?
>> >>
>> >> 4. How old is the wine now. Has it only just finished fermenting? Was
> it
>> >> degassed? Has it been aged at all? Has it been stabilised? Has it been
>> >> bottled?
>> >
>> > The Chablis has all been consumed, but it would be approximately one
>> > year and 4 months old now. The Riesling is approximately 8 months old
>> > now,
>> > and the Strawberry is approximately 4 months old now. I am not sure of
>> > the
>> > degassing process. Can you explain this to me in detail? The wine has
>> > been
>> > aged since bottling according to the numbers posed above. Yes it was
>> > stabilized, and yes it has been bottled.
>> >
>> > It does not taste like wine. I cannot explain the taste well. Perhaps
> if
>> > you enter further directed questions I would be able to communicate
>> > more
>> > effectively. I entered it into a wine competition in the Kentucky
>> > State
>> > Fair. I knew it would not do well because it did not taste like it
>> > should,
>> > but I wanted to gain exposure to events such as that.
>> >>
>> >> Try and give us at least the above information and anything else that
>> >> will
>> >> indicate the sort of background to the wines made and even of your own
>> >> experience
>> >
>> > With the kit wines I used potassium metabisulphite as a sterilization
>> > agent....with the Strawberry wine I used Campden tablets. Could the
>> > levels
>> > of the sulphites in my wine be the problem? What would this cause?
>> >>
>> > I do not know how to tell whether or not a wine will go bad. Can you
>> > present this information? I was told strawberry wine will not be good
>> > after
>> > 6-12 months. How true is this?
>> >
>> >> Finally as a total guess --
>> >> I am suspecting that the wines are just much too young. Early tasting
>> >> can
>> >> be confusing to a beginner. The bouquet and taste of wine, the feel of
> it
>> > in
>> >> the mouth, changes immensely with judicious "aging" New wine is
>> >> inevitably
>> >> coarser than the aged product.
>> >>
>> >> That's enough from me now. Try and see this reply as a pointer towards
>> > help.
>> >> If you respond I am sure that you will find the NG very useful
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
>> >> .. .
>> >> > Hello all,
>> >> >
>> >> > I am hoping that you all might be able to help me out. I have made
> two
>> >> > wines from kits, and one wine from fresh berries. The bouquet of
>> >> > the
>> >> > wines
>> >> > I have made have always been good; however, the actual taste and
>> >> > aftertaste
>> >> > of the wine has been .. well .. not so great. It has a bitter taste
> to
>> >> > it,
>> >> > and is also very alocholic tasting although the actual alcohol
> content
>> >> > I
>> >> > do
>> >> > not believe is that high. Do you have any suggestions on what I
> might
>> > try
>> >> > to avoid this in the future? What causes this bitterness? I have
> read
>> > on
>> >> > the Internet that the bitterness or astringent taste can be caused
>> >> > by
>> > too
>> >> > many tannins in the wine. I also learned that this could be due to
>> >> > crushing
>> >> > the fruit to violently. I had two wines made from kits in which
>> >> > concentrate
>> >> > was the initial starting point. Crushing the fruit too hard or fast
>> > would
>> >> > not have caused these wines to develop with this bitterness as I had
> no
>> >> > part
>> >> > in producing the concentrate that I purchased. I heard that PVPP or
>> >> > egg
>> >> > whites could be used to help pull the tannin taste out of the wine,
> but
>> > I
>> >> > am
>> >> > not sure that an overload of tannin in the wine is my problem. Any
>> > advice
>> >> > would be gladly accepted. Please respond to my email if possible
>> >> > primarily,
>> >> > or to the newsgroup if you cannot respond via email.
>> >> >
>> >> > My email address is
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Yes, let it age a few more months; you have nothing to lose and you have
the opportunity to learn from this. The bite you talk about is probably the
alcohol, and that is typical in a young wine. I would suggest you get
yourself a hydrometer so you can measure your alcohol level when you make
your next batch. When I first started out, I had trouble controlling the
alcohol level, and I ended up with some very high alcoholic wines, so much
so that the alcohol overshadowed the fruit taste. I shoot for a 11-12%
alcohol by volume for my fruit wines. There are other things you can do with
a wine which doesn't come out like you want. You can add 7-up to it and
create a wine cooler. You can add a bit of sugar to a glass, stir, and see
if you like that better.
Because you didn't rack that much, I would stand the bottle up in the
fridge for a few days before you want to drink it - check the bottom of the
bottle for a whitish/cream deposit. If there's nothing there, don't worry;
if there is - then carefully pour your wine out to avoid stirring the lees
up (decant as the previous poster talked about).
Please check out Jack's site - he has great recipes. Perfecting a wine
recipe to meet your tastes may take more than one batch, maybe two or three,
and you never know, you might not like the wine period. For example, I tried
dandelion wine, and I didn't like it. I made it a second time to try to
improve it, and I still don't like it, so I won't make it. I would encourage
you to learn the basics of making wine at home (Jack has a step by step
process), and then try it again.
Darlene
"John Fouts" > wrote in message
m...
> Wow. You guys really are fast with responses. The strawberry wine has
> already been bottled. So you would suggest letting it age for a few more
> months? I don't know if that will do any good, but I can try. It smells
> really good, but it tastes not that good. It has a bite almost like
> whisky
> it seems like. I will check out Jack's site and maybe try his recipe. Do
> you think it is better to continue making one wine and perfecting it? Or
> to
> try to make several different kinds of wine? Yes. I enjoy dry reds, but
> really I like a large spectrum of dry to semi-dry sometimes even some
> sweet
> wine is good.
>
>
> "Dar V" > wrote in message
> ...
>> John,
>> I can't respond to the questions on your wine kits, but I have made
>> strawberry wine a number of times. You said the wine was 4 months old,
>> you
>> racked it once, and you were not to happy with it. That may be a little
>> young to expect much, especially if you only racked it once.
>> Usually, I bottle my strawberry at about 7 months old and it has been
>> racked 2-4 times depending on how well it clears. Young wines usually
>> doesn't taste the best to begin with. It is kind of hard to describe the
>> yeasty, alcohol kick which you can taste in young wines. If you rack the
>> wine, and give the unfavorable stuff suspended in the wine to settle out,
>> and then give the wine a chance to age, you'll find the wine will taste
> much
>> different later on. The yeasty taste, and the alcohol taste will mellow
> out
>> over time. Since you can't give us the % alcohol by volume, nor what your
>> starting and ending SG was - its a bit hard for me suggest what else
>> could
>> be wrong, although there are other possibilities.
>> May I suggest you hang in there and don't give up. Learning how to
> make
>> wine you will like does take time, but it worth the effort. If I might
>> suggest you take a look at Jack Keller's site homemade winemaking site
>> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp , you'll find a lot of good
>> information there.
>> As to your current strawberry batch, if you have not bottled it yet,
>> I
>> would rack it again, make sure it is topped up and let it age some more.
> Do
>> you like dry wine? Bottle at 7 months, wait another month for bottle
>> shock
>> to wear off, and try a bottle at eight months. Then wait another month or
>> two, and try another bottle. Maybe compare the recipe you had with the
> one
>> on Jack's site, see how things worked out, and try again. Good-luck.
>> Darlene
>> Wisconsin
>>
>> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Pinky" > wrote in message
>> > . uk...
>> >> I am responding on the NG. It is a good idea to do this since you will
>> > then
>> >> get more information/help from different people. Also other will also
>> > learn
>> >> from the ensuing posts. Which is how this NG works and why it is so
>> >> successful.
>> >>
>> >> We need some more information before anyone can give you real help.
>> >> 1. What is the fruit of the "fresh berry" wine. What sort of recipe
> did
>> > you
>> >> use?
>> >>
>> > Okay we will start with the strawberry. It was strawberry wine. I
>> > handpicked the strawberries, crushed the berries by hand through
>> > cheesecloth
>> > to get the juice. I used a recipe I found on the Internet for
> Strawberry
>> > Wine. As for specifics, I can get those too if necessary.
>> >
>> >> 2. What is the name of the wine kit i.e. both the name of the type of
>> > wine
>> >> ( e.g. Merlot, Chardonnay ) and the name of the kit manufacturer(
>> >> e.g.
>> >> Winexpert, Spagnols)? Did you read and follow the instructions???
>> >>
>> > The two wine kit wines that I made were as follows:
>> >
>> > A.) Chablis Blush -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
>> > explicitly.
>> > This one tasted okay, but had a hint of a bitter flavor.
>> >
>> > B.) Riesling -- Vintner's Reserve -- Followed directions
>> > explicitly
>> > This one taste like a 40 of Mickey's Malt Liquor that is flat.
>> > Definitely not the way a Riesling should taste. The taste is similar
>> > to
>> > the
>> > taste that I developed with the Chablis Blush, and now with the
>> > Strawberry.
>> > I know it must be an error in the process because I am consistenly
>> > developing similar tastes. It is very frustrating that they do not
> taste
>> > good, but I am not planning on giving up anytime soon.
>> >
>> >
>> >> 3. As much information about the fermentation period that you can
>> >> give.
>> >> a. Original SG
>> >> b. Final SG
>> >
>> > I do not have these numbers readily available as we recently
> moved.
>> > The wine was not transported. I can tell you; however, that the
> specific
>> > gravity measurements were exactly where the kits said they should be
> when
>> > measured, when racked, and when bottled.
>> >
>> >> c. Secondary fermentation -- did you rack off the fruit at all?
>> >
>> > Yes I racked the fruit wine once, and it seemed to clear up very
>> > well after that. I only racked it one time though. Should
>> > I have done this more?
>> >>
>> >> 4. How old is the wine now. Has it only just finished fermenting? Was
> it
>> >> degassed? Has it been aged at all? Has it been stabilised? Has it been
>> >> bottled?
>> >
>> > The Chablis has all been consumed, but it would be approximately one
>> > year and 4 months old now. The Riesling is approximately 8 months old
>> > now,
>> > and the Strawberry is approximately 4 months old now. I am not sure of
>> > the
>> > degassing process. Can you explain this to me in detail? The wine has
>> > been
>> > aged since bottling according to the numbers posed above. Yes it was
>> > stabilized, and yes it has been bottled.
>> >
>> > It does not taste like wine. I cannot explain the taste well. Perhaps
> if
>> > you enter further directed questions I would be able to communicate
>> > more
>> > effectively. I entered it into a wine competition in the Kentucky
>> > State
>> > Fair. I knew it would not do well because it did not taste like it
>> > should,
>> > but I wanted to gain exposure to events such as that.
>> >>
>> >> Try and give us at least the above information and anything else that
>> >> will
>> >> indicate the sort of background to the wines made and even of your own
>> >> experience
>> >
>> > With the kit wines I used potassium metabisulphite as a sterilization
>> > agent....with the Strawberry wine I used Campden tablets. Could the
>> > levels
>> > of the sulphites in my wine be the problem? What would this cause?
>> >>
>> > I do not know how to tell whether or not a wine will go bad. Can you
>> > present this information? I was told strawberry wine will not be good
>> > after
>> > 6-12 months. How true is this?
>> >
>> >> Finally as a total guess --
>> >> I am suspecting that the wines are just much too young. Early tasting
>> >> can
>> >> be confusing to a beginner. The bouquet and taste of wine, the feel of
> it
>> > in
>> >> the mouth, changes immensely with judicious "aging" New wine is
>> >> inevitably
>> >> coarser than the aged product.
>> >>
>> >> That's enough from me now. Try and see this reply as a pointer towards
>> > help.
>> >> If you respond I am sure that you will find the NG very useful
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
>> >> .. .
>> >> > Hello all,
>> >> >
>> >> > I am hoping that you all might be able to help me out. I have made
> two
>> >> > wines from kits, and one wine from fresh berries. The bouquet of
>> >> > the
>> >> > wines
>> >> > I have made have always been good; however, the actual taste and
>> >> > aftertaste
>> >> > of the wine has been .. well .. not so great. It has a bitter taste
> to
>> >> > it,
>> >> > and is also very alocholic tasting although the actual alcohol
> content
>> >> > I
>> >> > do
>> >> > not believe is that high. Do you have any suggestions on what I
> might
>> > try
>> >> > to avoid this in the future? What causes this bitterness? I have
> read
>> > on
>> >> > the Internet that the bitterness or astringent taste can be caused
>> >> > by
>> > too
>> >> > many tannins in the wine. I also learned that this could be due to
>> >> > crushing
>> >> > the fruit to violently. I had two wines made from kits in which
>> >> > concentrate
>> >> > was the initial starting point. Crushing the fruit too hard or fast
>> > would
>> >> > not have caused these wines to develop with this bitterness as I had
> no
>> >> > part
>> >> > in producing the concentrate that I purchased. I heard that PVPP or
>> >> > egg
>> >> > whites could be used to help pull the tannin taste out of the wine,
> but
>> > I
>> >> > am
>> >> > not sure that an overload of tannin in the wine is my problem. Any
>> > advice
>> >> > would be gladly accepted. Please respond to my email if possible
>> >> > primarily,
>> >> > or to the newsgroup if you cannot respond via email.
>> >> >
>> >> > My email address is
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

From my experience with making kit wines, whites, including Resling, should
be ready to drink in 6 - 12 months. But maybe yours will take a bit longer.
I have had good luck with Spagnoles Johannesberg Reisling and
Gewertztraminer.

As far as the strawberry, I have never tasted a dry strawberry that I liked
and I prefer dry wines. The best strawberry I ever had was one that was so
sweet that I could not drink it. Could not think what to do with it. Then
I got the idea - how do you eat sweet strawberries? Strawberries and cream
of course. So I cut it with 50% cream and everyone loved it. Sugar will
cover many faults. So if nothing else, you can sweeten it and use it as a
desert wine.

Ray

John I have posted the reply below a couple of days ago but for some reason
it hasnt appeared on the NG. It certainly left here.
So here it is again and I hope it doesn't turn out to be a double post


"John,
Well you certainly gave us a lot of info. Thanks.

I shall not make much comment on the Strawberry wine since Darlene has
made a full reply. I make 5 gallons (Imp) of Strawberry wine every year to a
recipe that I have been using for some 30 years! I use 20 pounds of
strawberrys , freshly picked andhulled and freeze them since the freezing
helps enormously with the juice extraction so there is no need to crush the
fruit. I use about 5 kg of sugar.

When fermenting I also use a pectin enzyme which also helps in juice
extraction as well. Primary fermentation on the fruit lasts for about a week
until the SG has droppped to about 1.010. I then rack off and strain the
pulp, letting it rest for about an hour to let heavier particles to settle
out and then into a carboy for secondary fermentation to completion. Then
racked off into a glass carboy and stabilised. I don't degas since it then
will be left to age for about 6 to 9 months and I like my Strawberry rosé to
have that tingle on the tongue.
I will check the wine occasionally to see if excessive lees have settled
out and if necessary I will rack again and readjust the SO2. I bottle at
about 9 months and it is then ready for drinking a year after the first
fermentation -- fersh strawberries with cram and a chilled glass of slightly
"petilant" stawberry wine is one of my treats for guests in July and August.

The two VR kits!
First of all let me say that I don't use Vintners Reserve kits. I made two
kits several years ago when they were first introduced into UK ( a Chianti
and a Gewurztraminer)
Both were bulk aged for a year and I was most disappointed in both wines.
The Chianti was absolutely nothing like chianti and was thin and lacking in
mouth, taste and bouquet. The gewurzt was better but sadly quite unlike
gewurztraminer. I have never made a VR kit since then!

Now this is purely a personal opinion. But in kit wines "you gets what you
pays for". And in red kit wines especially, the less expensive ones of all
brands fall very short of what I expect of red wine. I moved up very rapidly
to the Winexpert Selection Series of wine for my reds ( the Luna Rossa is
still one of the best of the original kits and I still make it - I consider
it beats some of the more expensive kits !)
Even so, in correspendence with Brew King and now Winexpert, I expressed
my disatisfaction about well known shortcomings. When the Selection Estate
series was introduced I tried them too but thought that the improvement was
not worth the 50% price hike over the Selection series. January this year
saw the first of the new Selection estate "Crushendo" kits in UK -- at
nearly twice the price of the initial Selection Series I expect it to be a
single try! BUT at the end of the secondary fermetation when I sampled to
new wine before putting it down to bulk age, I was quite startled by its
quality and for the first time a kit red wine had all the nuances I look
for in red wine. I have just put my second Crushendo kit to bulk age but
obviously I still haven't sampled the first kit again yet -- it has a few
more months to go. I shall bottle in January and look forward to it
immensely.

As I said at the beginning this is only a personal opinion but I just find
that, with red wine kits especially, the "mid-range" and cheaper kits just
do not fulfill my expectations. I have generally said on this NG -- "Always
buy a kit at least one level more expensive than you think you want to".

In UK the VR kits are now about £42 and Selection - about £60, Selection
estate £75 and my last "Crushendo" kit cost me £102 ----- all for 30
bottles

"> Definitely not the way a Riesling should taste. The taste is similar
to the
> taste that I developed with the Chablis Blush, and now with the
Strawberry.
> I know it must be an error in the process because I am consistenly
> developing similar tastes. It is very frustrating that they do not
taste
> good, but I am not planning on giving up anytime soon.

It seems as though your kits wines were aged sufficiently but since your
strawberry is also showing similar "off" flavours -- then perhaps we should
look elsewhere! ---
I might ask --

What do you use for your fermetation vessels? I use polyethelene ( food
grade plastic buckets and fermenters for primary and secondary) I bulk age
in 23 litre glass carboys ( and some 1 gal imp glass "demijohns")

Where does the fermentation take place?

I deduce that you do not "bulk age" and age in bottle. There are different
opinions on this but if you have limited storage space which is not well
temperature controlled then "Bulk" aging is far better

and oh -- what quantities are you making? -- I presume 6 gals US ( ie 5
gals imp or 23 litres)

By the way for my white wines I use a brand name available here in UK
called "Beaverdale" which cost me about £35 -- some £7 cheaper than the VR
kits. I bulk age my whites only for 6 months before bottling --- my
favoutites being Muscadet and Sauvignon Blanc. White wine kits do not suffer
from the well known "cooked" fruit taste of red wine kits and turn out to be
truer varietal wines

Not very helpful so far but someone will come up with an idea or two!

Persevere with patience!"


"John Fouts" > wrote in message
...
<snip> <snip>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"John Fouts" > wrote in message
...

> Okay we will start with the strawberry. It was strawberry wine. I
> handpicked the strawberries, crushed the berries by hand through
> cheesecloth
> to get the juice. I used a recipe I found on the Internet for Strawberry
> Wine. As for specifics, I can get those too if necessary.

Thanks Pinky for all of the info.

I am aging in bottles...not bulk. I am using a food grade plastic primary
fermenter, and a 6 gallon glass carboy. These should be fine shouldn't
they?


"Pinky" > wrote in message
. uk...
> John I have posted the reply below a couple of days ago but for some
reason
> it hasnt appeared on the NG. It certainly left here.
> So here it is again and I hope it doesn't turn out to be a double post
>
>
> "John,
> Well you certainly gave us a lot of info. Thanks.
>
> I shall not make much comment on the Strawberry wine since Darlene has
> made a full reply. I make 5 gallons (Imp) of Strawberry wine every year to
a
> recipe that I have been using for some 30 years! I use 20 pounds of
> strawberrys , freshly picked andhulled and freeze them since the freezing
> helps enormously with the juice extraction so there is no need to crush
the
> fruit. I use about 5 kg of sugar.
>
> When fermenting I also use a pectin enzyme which also helps in juice
> extraction as well. Primary fermentation on the fruit lasts for about a
week
> until the SG has droppped to about 1.010. I then rack off and strain the
> pulp, letting it rest for about an hour to let heavier particles to
settle
> out and then into a carboy for secondary fermentation to completion. Then
> racked off into a glass carboy and stabilised. I don't degas since it
then
> will be left to age for about 6 to 9 months and I like my Strawberry rosé
to
> have that tingle on the tongue.
> I will check the wine occasionally to see if excessive lees have settled
> out and if necessary I will rack again and readjust the SO2. I bottle at
> about 9 months and it is then ready for drinking a year after the first
> fermentation -- fersh strawberries with cram and a chilled glass of
slightly
> "petilant" stawberry wine is one of my treats for guests in July and
August.
>
> The two VR kits!
> First of all let me say that I don't use Vintners Reserve kits. I made
two
> kits several years ago when they were first introduced into UK ( a Chianti
> and a Gewurztraminer)
> Both were bulk aged for a year and I was most disappointed in both
wines.
> The Chianti was absolutely nothing like chianti and was thin and lacking
in
> mouth, taste and bouquet. The gewurzt was better but sadly quite unlike
> gewurztraminer. I have never made a VR kit since then!
>
> Now this is purely a personal opinion. But in kit wines "you gets what
you
> pays for". And in red kit wines especially, the less expensive ones of
all
> brands fall very short of what I expect of red wine. I moved up very
rapidly
> to the Winexpert Selection Series of wine for my reds ( the Luna Rossa is
> still one of the best of the original kits and I still make it - I
consider
> it beats some of the more expensive kits !)
> Even so, in correspendence with Brew King and now Winexpert, I expressed
> my disatisfaction about well known shortcomings. When the Selection Estate
> series was introduced I tried them too but thought that the improvement
was
> not worth the 50% price hike over the Selection series. January this year
> saw the first of the new Selection estate "Crushendo" kits in UK -- at
> nearly twice the price of the initial Selection Series I expect it to be a
> single try! BUT at the end of the secondary fermetation when I sampled to
> new wine before putting it down to bulk age, I was quite startled by its
> quality and for the first time a kit red wine had all the nuances I look
> for in red wine. I have just put my second Crushendo kit to bulk age but
> obviously I still haven't sampled the first kit again yet -- it has a few
> more months to go. I shall bottle in January and look forward to it
> immensely.
>
> As I said at the beginning this is only a personal opinion but I just
find
> that, with red wine kits especially, the "mid-range" and cheaper kits just
> do not fulfill my expectations. I have generally said on this NG --
"Always
> buy a kit at least one level more expensive than you think you want to".
>
> In UK the VR kits are now about £42 and Selection - about £60,
Selection
> estate £75 and my last "Crushendo" kit cost me £102 ----- all for 30
> bottles
>
> "> Definitely not the way a Riesling should taste. The taste is similar
> to the
> > taste that I developed with the Chablis Blush, and now with the
> Strawberry.
> > I know it must be an error in the process because I am consistenly
> > developing similar tastes. It is very frustrating that they do not
> taste
> > good, but I am not planning on giving up anytime soon.
>
> It seems as though your kits wines were aged sufficiently but since your
> strawberry is also showing similar "off" flavours -- then perhaps we
should
> look elsewhere! ---
> I might ask --
>
> What do you use for your fermetation vessels? I use polyethelene ( food
> grade plastic buckets and fermenters for primary and secondary) I bulk
age
> in 23 litre glass carboys ( and some 1 gal imp glass "demijohns")
>
> Where does the fermentation take place?
>
> I deduce that you do not "bulk age" and age in bottle. There are
different
> opinions on this but if you have limited storage space which is not well
> temperature controlled then "Bulk" aging is far better
>
> and oh -- what quantities are you making? -- I presume 6 gals US ( ie 5
> gals imp or 23 litres)
>
> By the way for my white wines I use a brand name available here in UK
> called "Beaverdale" which cost me about £35 -- some £7 cheaper than the
VR
> kits. I bulk age my whites only for 6 months before bottling --- my
> favoutites being Muscadet and Sauvignon Blanc. White wine kits do not
suffer
> from the well known "cooked" fruit taste of red wine kits and turn out to
be
> truer varietal wines
>
> Not very helpful so far but someone will come up with an idea or two!
>
> Persevere with patience!"
>
>
> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
> ...
> <snip> <snip>
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
>
> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Okay we will start with the strawberry. It was strawberry wine. I
> > handpicked the strawberries, crushed the berries by hand through
> > cheesecloth
> > to get the juice. I used a recipe I found on the Internet for
Strawberry
> > Wine. As for specifics, I can get those too if necessary.
>
>

Yes that is fine. Most of us bulk age in 5 to 6 gal. glass carboys. That
is considered bulk. When we talk about aging in bottles, we mean that we
have bottled it for consumption, usually standard 750 ml wine bottles or
something of the sort.

Ray

"John Fouts" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Pinky for all of the info.
>
> I am aging in bottles...not bulk. I am using a food grade plastic primary
> fermenter, and a 6 gallon glass carboy. These should be fine shouldn't
> they?
>
>
> "Pinky" > wrote in message
> . uk...
>> John I have posted the reply below a couple of days ago but for some
> reason
>> it hasnt appeared on the NG. It certainly left here.
>> So here it is again and I hope it doesn't turn out to be a double post
>>
>>
>> "John,
>> Well you certainly gave us a lot of info. Thanks.
>>
>> I shall not make much comment on the Strawberry wine since Darlene has
>> made a full reply. I make 5 gallons (Imp) of Strawberry wine every year
>> to
> a
>> recipe that I have been using for some 30 years! I use 20 pounds of
>> strawberrys , freshly picked andhulled and freeze them since the freezing
>> helps enormously with the juice extraction so there is no need to crush
> the
>> fruit. I use about 5 kg of sugar.
>>
>> When fermenting I also use a pectin enzyme which also helps in juice
>> extraction as well. Primary fermentation on the fruit lasts for about a
> week
>> until the SG has droppped to about 1.010. I then rack off and strain the
>> pulp, letting it rest for about an hour to let heavier particles to
> settle
>> out and then into a carboy for secondary fermentation to completion. Then
>> racked off into a glass carboy and stabilised. I don't degas since it
> then
>> will be left to age for about 6 to 9 months and I like my Strawberry rosé
> to
>> have that tingle on the tongue.
>> I will check the wine occasionally to see if excessive lees have
>> settled
>> out and if necessary I will rack again and readjust the SO2. I bottle at
>> about 9 months and it is then ready for drinking a year after the first
>> fermentation -- fersh strawberries with cram and a chilled glass of
> slightly
>> "petilant" stawberry wine is one of my treats for guests in July and
> August.
>>
>> The two VR kits!
>> First of all let me say that I don't use Vintners Reserve kits. I made
> two
>> kits several years ago when they were first introduced into UK ( a
>> Chianti
>> and a Gewurztraminer)
>> Both were bulk aged for a year and I was most disappointed in both
> wines.
>> The Chianti was absolutely nothing like chianti and was thin and lacking
> in
>> mouth, taste and bouquet. The gewurzt was better but sadly quite unlike
>> gewurztraminer. I have never made a VR kit since then!
>>
>> Now this is purely a personal opinion. But in kit wines "you gets what
> you
>> pays for". And in red kit wines especially, the less expensive ones of
> all
>> brands fall very short of what I expect of red wine. I moved up very
> rapidly
>> to the Winexpert Selection Series of wine for my reds ( the Luna Rossa
>> is
>> still one of the best of the original kits and I still make it - I
> consider
>> it beats some of the more expensive kits !)
>> Even so, in correspendence with Brew King and now Winexpert, I
>> expressed
>> my disatisfaction about well known shortcomings. When the Selection
>> Estate
>> series was introduced I tried them too but thought that the improvement
> was
>> not worth the 50% price hike over the Selection series. January this year
>> saw the first of the new Selection estate "Crushendo" kits in UK -- at
>> nearly twice the price of the initial Selection Series I expect it to be
>> a
>> single try! BUT at the end of the secondary fermetation when I sampled
>> to
>> new wine before putting it down to bulk age, I was quite startled by its
>> quality and for the first time a kit red wine had all the nuances I
>> look
>> for in red wine. I have just put my second Crushendo kit to bulk age but
>> obviously I still haven't sampled the first kit again yet -- it has a few
>> more months to go. I shall bottle in January and look forward to it
>> immensely.
>>
>> As I said at the beginning this is only a personal opinion but I just
> find
>> that, with red wine kits especially, the "mid-range" and cheaper kits
>> just
>> do not fulfill my expectations. I have generally said on this NG --
> "Always
>> buy a kit at least one level more expensive than you think you want to".
>>
>> In UK the VR kits are now about £42 and Selection - about £60,
> Selection
>> estate £75 and my last "Crushendo" kit cost me £102 ----- all for 30
>> bottles
>>
>> "> Definitely not the way a Riesling should taste. The taste is
>> similar
>> to the
>> > taste that I developed with the Chablis Blush, and now with the
>> Strawberry.
>> > I know it must be an error in the process because I am consistenly
>> > developing similar tastes. It is very frustrating that they do not
>> taste
>> > good, but I am not planning on giving up anytime soon.
>>
>> It seems as though your kits wines were aged sufficiently but since
>> your
>> strawberry is also showing similar "off" flavours -- then perhaps we
> should
>> look elsewhere! ---
>> I might ask --
>>
>> What do you use for your fermetation vessels? I use polyethelene ( food
>> grade plastic buckets and fermenters for primary and secondary) I bulk
> age
>> in 23 litre glass carboys ( and some 1 gal imp glass "demijohns")
>>
>> Where does the fermentation take place?
>>
>> I deduce that you do not "bulk age" and age in bottle. There are
> different
>> opinions on this but if you have limited storage space which is not well
>> temperature controlled then "Bulk" aging is far better
>>
>> and oh -- what quantities are you making? -- I presume 6 gals US ( ie
>> 5
>> gals imp or 23 litres)
>>
>> By the way for my white wines I use a brand name available here in UK
>> called "Beaverdale" which cost me about £35 -- some £7 cheaper than the
> VR
>> kits. I bulk age my whites only for 6 months before bottling --- my
>> favoutites being Muscadet and Sauvignon Blanc. White wine kits do not
> suffer
>> from the well known "cooked" fruit taste of red wine kits and turn out to
> be
>> truer varietal wines
>>
>> Not very helpful so far but someone will come up with an idea or two!
>>
>> Persevere with patience!"
>>
>>
>> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> <snip> <snip>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>>
>>
>>
>> "John Fouts" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > Okay we will start with the strawberry. It was strawberry wine. I
>> > handpicked the strawberries, crushed the berries by hand through
>> > cheesecloth
>> > to get the juice. I used a recipe I found on the Internet for
> Strawberry
>> > Wine. As for specifics, I can get those too if necessary.
>>
>>
>
>