Hello,

I'm making my first batch(es) of sake. I prepared the koji kome over
about 4 days. I then used two different techniques to make my moto. One
was from this group and the other from the koji-kin provider (Vision). I
noticed that both moto have gone through a fragrant, fruit-scented phase
which is quite enjoyable. One of the two has progressed onto a sulfurous
smell that I've encountered in making kolsch. I'm not worried about this.
However, I'm guessing that similar stages will occur in the main mash.
What can the smell tell me about the stage of fermentation / alcohol % ?
Are there rules I should adhere to regarding agitation and duration in
the carboy?

Thanks,
Phil

If it helps, I'm using wyeast sake yeast and will be fermenting outdoors,
which is around 35-55* in my area of CA.

"Phil V." > wrote in message
news
> Hello,
>
> I'm making my first batch(es) of sake. I prepared the koji kome over
> about 4 days. I then used two different techniques to make my moto. One
> was from this group and the other from the koji-kin provider (Vision). I
> noticed that both moto have gone through a fragrant, fruit-scented phase
> which is quite enjoyable. One of the two has progressed onto a sulfurousd
> smell that I've encountered in making kolsch. I'm not worried about this.
> However, I'm guessing that similar stages will occur in the main mash.
> What can the smell tell me about the stage of fermentation / alcohol % ?
> Are there rules I should adhere to regarding agitation and duration in
> the carboy?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
> If it helps, I'm using wyeast sake yeast and will be fermenting outdoors,
> which is around 35-55* in my area of CA.

Make sure you dont exceed the hoki-koki nanki-poo standard, and ensure that
when you reach the hanki-panki platform that you increase the poki-poki
rate.

"Phil V." > wrote in message
news
> Hello,
>
> I'm making my first batch(es) of sake. I prepared the koji kome over
> about 4 days. I then used two different techniques to make my moto. One
> was from this group and the other from the koji-kin provider (Vision). I
> noticed that both moto have gone through a fragrant, fruit-scented phase
> which is quite enjoyable. One of the two has progressed onto a sulfurousd
> smell that I've encountered in making kolsch. I'm not worried about this.
> However, I'm guessing that similar stages will occur in the main mash.
> What can the smell tell me about the stage of fermentation / alcohol % ?
> Are there rules I should adhere to regarding agitation and duration in
> the carboy?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
> If it helps, I'm using wyeast sake yeast and will be fermenting outdoors,
> which is around 35-55* in my area of CA.

Make sure you dont exceed the hoki-koki nanki-poo standard, and ensure that
when you reach the hanki-panki platform that you increase the poki-poki
rate.

> Make sure you dont exceed the hoki-koki nanki-poo standard, and ensure that
> when you reach the hanki-panki platform that you increase the poki-poki
> rate.

That's great. I'll watch out for that. Anyone care to respond who
doesn't have both hands in their pants?

> Make sure you dont exceed the hoki-koki nanki-poo standard, and ensure that
> when you reach the hanki-panki platform that you increase the poki-poki
> rate.

That's great. I'll watch out for that. Anyone care to respond who
doesn't have both hands in their pants?

> I'm making my first batch(es) of sake. I prepared the koji kome over

kome overs are for bald guys.

--
___________________
HomeBrewer
http://85cj7.blogspot.com/
http://85cj7.webhop.net/
http://funfacts.webhop.org/

"HomeBrewer" > wrote in message
...
>> I'm making my first batch(es) of sake. I prepared the koji kome over
>
> kome overs are for bald guys.

I hope your homebrew isn't as flat as your sophomoric attempts at humor.
:^/

Tom S

You know, as a new brewer who was pondering attempting a sake in a few
years, after I have a couple decent meads under my belt, I was kind of
interested in seeing serious responses to this post. >

Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?

You know, as a new brewer who was pondering attempting a sake in a few
years, after I have a couple decent meads under my belt, I was kind of
interested in seeing serious responses to this post. >

Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?

> Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?

You're right I'm not fimiliar with making it..After tasting it I can't
imagine why anyone would want to.
--
___________________
HomeBrewer
http://85cj7.blogspot.com/
http://85cj7.webhop.net/
http://funfacts.webhop.org/

> Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?

You're right I'm not fimiliar with making it..After tasting it I can't
imagine why anyone would want to.
--
___________________
HomeBrewer
http://85cj7.blogspot.com/
http://85cj7.webhop.net/
http://funfacts.webhop.org/

"HomeBrewer" <> wrote >
> You're right I'm not fimiliar with making it..After tasting it I can't
> imagine why anyone would want to.
> --

You may have tasted a poor example of the species - or one served
incorrectly. Or you may not like warm, still beverages.

A good saki has some interesting nuances that not all pallettes can process.
Also, it should generally be served rather warm - this emphasizes those
nuances. If your saki experience was the only saki offered on the wine
shelf at Kroger, you probably just got a really lousy saki.

"HomeBrewer" <> wrote >
> You're right I'm not fimiliar with making it..After tasting it I can't
> imagine why anyone would want to.
> --

You may have tasted a poor example of the species - or one served
incorrectly. Or you may not like warm, still beverages.

A good saki has some interesting nuances that not all pallettes can process.
Also, it should generally be served rather warm - this emphasizes those
nuances. If your saki experience was the only saki offered on the wine
shelf at Kroger, you probably just got a really lousy saki.

> A good saki has some interesting nuances that not all pallettes can
> process.
> Also, it should generally be served rather warm - this emphasizes those
> nuances. If your saki experience was the only saki offered on the wine
> shelf at Kroger, you probably just got a really lousy saki.

My only sample was from a friend of the family that lived in Japan on
business for 3 years and had invested in some saki company. He gave 5-6
different bottles to each family member and I ended up giving mine to my
drunk uncle. some said it was good...some hated it...I will never know if it
was served wrong or just plain bad. They were really cool looking bottles
though. One was a dark blue pearl looking thing.
--
___________________
HomeBrewer
http://85cj7.blogspot.com/
http://85cj7.webhop.net/
http://funfacts.webhop.org/

"HomeBrewer" <> wrote > >
>
> My only sample was from a friend of the family that lived in Japan on
> business for 3 years and had invested in some saki company.

Ah - it really is a matter of taste. I got my brother to sample a Samuel
Smith India Ale once - which I really like as a pleasant change from the
variety of stouts, porters, dark weisses, and generally muddy dark ales I
usually drink - and I thought he was going to barf on my shoes. Everybody's
palate is different.

"Tom S" <> wrote >
> Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled. Around
55°F
> is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
>
Ah ha! I was misinformed.

"Tom S" <> wrote >
> Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled. Around
55°F
> is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
>
Ah ha! I was misinformed.

"Phil V." > wrote in message
news
> > Make sure you dont exceed the hoki-koki nanki-poo standard, and ensure
that
> > when you reach the hanki-panki platform that you increase the poki-poki
> > rate.
>
> That's great. I'll watch out for that. Anyone care to respond who
> doesn't have both hands in their pants?

Well, you may wish to start by removing the broom from your arse and stop
taking yourself so seriously.

"Phil V." > wrote in message
news
> > Make sure you dont exceed the hoki-koki nanki-poo standard, and ensure
that
> > when you reach the hanki-panki platform that you increase the poki-poki
> > rate.
>
> That's great. I'll watch out for that. Anyone care to respond who
> doesn't have both hands in their pants?

Well, you may wish to start by removing the broom from your arse and stop
taking yourself so seriously.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:27:47 +0000, A. M. Hawk Widner wrote:

> You know, as a new brewer who was pondering attempting a sake in a few
> years, after I have a couple decent meads under my belt, I was kind of
> interested in seeing serious responses to this post. >
>
> Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?

Sounds like you may be correct.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:27:47 +0000, A. M. Hawk Widner wrote:

> You know, as a new brewer who was pondering attempting a sake in a few
> years, after I have a couple decent meads under my belt, I was kind of
> interested in seeing serious responses to this post. >
>
> Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?

Sounds like you may be correct.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:27:47 +0000, A. M. Hawk Widner wrote:

> You know, as a new brewer who was pondering attempting a sake in a few
> years, after I have a couple decent meads under my belt, I was kind of
> interested in seeing serious responses to this post. >
>
> Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?

Sounds like you may be correct.

I agree with the warm in cold weather approach. Sometimes, Fugu fin
in sake can be quite nice, too. I wouldn't do it with my best sake,
tho' - that I prefer to drink cold so that I taste the drink and am not
overwhelmed by the alcoholic smell.

bad sake - there's a lot of crap out there. Until my most recent
visit to Japan, I'd thought that it was strictly a US-bad, Japan-good
phenomenom, however in visiting three breweries, one had extremely poor
product.

Personally, if you haven't found good sake, I'd recommend finding a good
Japanese market and asking about the character of different brands. Many
of my favorites (almost always daiginjo) have apple-character. Mu - a
realfave of mine at 'Joy of Sake' last year - has almost grappa-hints as I
recall.

There's a lot out there. And making doburoku sake hasn't been too hard so
far. All I need now is some experienced advice....

I agree with the warm in cold weather approach. Sometimes, Fugu fin
in sake can be quite nice, too. I wouldn't do it with my best sake,
tho' - that I prefer to drink cold so that I taste the drink and am not
overwhelmed by the alcoholic smell.

bad sake - there's a lot of crap out there. Until my most recent
visit to Japan, I'd thought that it was strictly a US-bad, Japan-good
phenomenom, however in visiting three breweries, one had extremely poor
product.

Personally, if you haven't found good sake, I'd recommend finding a good
Japanese market and asking about the character of different brands. Many
of my favorites (almost always daiginjo) have apple-character. Mu - a
realfave of mine at 'Joy of Sake' last year - has almost grappa-hints as I
recall.

There's a lot out there. And making doburoku sake hasn't been too hard so
far. All I need now is some experienced advice....

"Phil V." > wrote in message
news
> Hello,
>
> I'm making my first batch(es) of sake.
Try cross posting to japan.sake if you to try another group for advice.

Graeme...in London wrote:
>Some gobbledy gook about sake like he knows all >about it just 'cause his
wife's Japanese.<g>

Look at you Graeme! Comin' into a new group and correcting everybody without
even a formal hello. You are truly a man among men. These guys are a bunch
of FA's but they seem to know all about drinkin' and makin' the stuff they
drink.

--
Fosco Gamgee Whitfurrows
and his 6" boner

"A. M. Hawk Widner" > wrote in message
newsc%Fd.7103$4I2.2352@attbi_s01...
> You know, as a new brewer who was pondering attempting a sake in a few
> years, after I have a couple decent meads under my belt, I was kind of
> interested in seeing serious responses to this post. >
>
> Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?
>
I've been making beer and wine for over 25 years and all I know is that
it is made of cooked rice, an enzyme converts it to sugar, you ferment it
somehow and then drink it at 98*F with some of the dregs in it. Sounds like
my idea of fun. Not.
Bob<><
--

Heroes always bleed, but heroes never cry,
heroes always get the best girl, and then die..."
- Gary Numan- "A Dream of Siam"

"HomeBrewer" > wrote in message
...
> > Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?
>
> You're right I'm not fimiliar with making it..After tasting it I can't
> imagine why anyone would want to.

Obviously he's a masochist.....
> --
> ___________________
> HomeBrewer
> http://85cj7.blogspot.com/
> http://85cj7.webhop.net/
> http://funfacts.webhop.org/
>
>

"HomeBrewer" > wrote in message
...
> > Perhaps these brewers are not familiar with making sake?
>
> You're right I'm not fimiliar with making it..After tasting it I can't
> imagine why anyone would want to.

Obviously he's a masochist.....
> --
> ___________________
> HomeBrewer
> http://85cj7.blogspot.com/
> http://85cj7.webhop.net/
> http://funfacts.webhop.org/
>
>

"A. M. Hawk Widner" > wrote in message
news:eU6Gd.7968$eT5.6413@attbi_s51...
> "Tom S" <> wrote >
> > Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled. Around
> 55°F
> > is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
> >
> Ah ha! I was misinformed.
>
Me too, and the rest of the world....
I have =never= heard of chilling sake; it is always supposed to be
served at body temp.
Bob
--
http://www.RoanokeIsland.com
35* 55' N, 75* 40' W

"A. M. Hawk Widner" > wrote in message
news:eU6Gd.7968$eT5.6413@attbi_s51...
> "Tom S" <> wrote >
> > Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled. Around
> 55°F
> > is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
> >
> Ah ha! I was misinformed.
>
Me too, and the rest of the world....
I have =never= heard of chilling sake; it is always supposed to be
served at body temp.
Bob
--
http://www.RoanokeIsland.com
35* 55' N, 75* 40' W

In article >, Bob says...
>
>
>"A. M. Hawk Widner" > wrote in message
>news:eU6Gd.7968$eT5.6413@attbi_s51...
>> "Tom S" <> wrote >
>> > Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled. Around
>> 55°F
>> > is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
>> >
>> Ah ha! I was misinformed.
>>
> Me too, and the rest of the world....

No, not the rest of the world.

> I have =never= heard of chilling sake; it is always supposed to be
>served at body temp.
> Bob

Absolutely wrong. There are many Sake's made exclusively to be served chilled.
Just look online or go to any good sushi restaurant.

In article >, Bob says...
>
>
>"A. M. Hawk Widner" > wrote in message
>news:eU6Gd.7968$eT5.6413@attbi_s51...
>> "Tom S" <> wrote >
>> > Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled. Around
>> 55°F
>> > is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
>> >
>> Ah ha! I was misinformed.
>>
> Me too, and the rest of the world....

No, not the rest of the world.

> I have =never= heard of chilling sake; it is always supposed to be
>served at body temp.
> Bob

Absolutely wrong. There are many Sake's made exclusively to be served chilled.
Just look online or go to any good sushi restaurant.

Bob wrote:
> "A. M. Hawk Widner" > wrote in message
> news:eU6Gd.7968$eT5.6413@attbi_s51...
>
>>"Tom S" <> wrote >
>>
>>>Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled. Around
>>
>>55°F
>>
>>>is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
>>>
>>
>>Ah ha! I was misinformed.
>>
>
> Me too, and the rest of the world....
> I have =never= heard of chilling sake; it is always supposed to be
> served at body temp.
> Bob

Nope -- sake can be served at a variety of temperatures. See:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/maryy/eng...sake_kan_e.htm



--
(Replies: cleanse my address of the Mark of the Beast!)

Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html

>Obviously he's a masochist.....

Definition: [n] someone who obtains pleasure from receiving punishment
Antonyms: sadist
See Also: degenerate, deviant, deviate, flagellant, pervert


I was gonna let you have it Bob, I thought you were talking about me...or
were you?
--
___________________
HomeBrewer
http://85cj7.blogspot.com/
http://85cj7.webhop.net/
http://funfacts.webhop.org/

I guess you don't know shit then do ya bob?
A fungus converts the starch to sugar, and another one converts the sugar
to alcohol simultaneously. A number of flavor components are produced that
are subtle and best enjoyed when the sake is at body temperature,
preferably the body temperature found between the thighs of a geisha.
If there's one thing that ****es me off more than a sheep that wants to
live to be a hundred, it's an asshole who knocks something before he's even
tried it.
Bob on that.

-Brett

"Bob" > drunkenly bellowed in
:

>
>>
> I've been making beer and wine for over 25 years and all I know is
> that
> it is made of cooked rice, an enzyme converts it to sugar, you ferment
> it somehow and then drink it at 98*F with some of the dregs in it.
> Sounds like my idea of fun. Not.
> Bob<><
> --
>
> Heroes always bleed, but heroes never cry,
> heroes always get the best girl, and then die..."
> - Gary Numan- "A Dream of Siam"
>
>
>



--
"They who drink beer will think beer."
-Washington Irving

I guess you don't know shit then do ya bob?
A fungus converts the starch to sugar, and another one converts the sugar
to alcohol simultaneously. A number of flavor components are produced that
are subtle and best enjoyed when the sake is at body temperature,
preferably the body temperature found between the thighs of a geisha.
If there's one thing that ****es me off more than a sheep that wants to
live to be a hundred, it's an asshole who knocks something before he's even
tried it.
Bob on that.

-Brett

"Bob" > drunkenly bellowed in
:

>
>>
> I've been making beer and wine for over 25 years and all I know is
> that
> it is made of cooked rice, an enzyme converts it to sugar, you ferment
> it somehow and then drink it at 98*F with some of the dregs in it.
> Sounds like my idea of fun. Not.
> Bob<><
> --
>
> Heroes always bleed, but heroes never cry,
> heroes always get the best girl, and then die..."
> - Gary Numan- "A Dream of Siam"
>
>
>



--
"They who drink beer will think beer."
-Washington Irving

Phil,

The guy with all the answers is Fred Eckhardt, who has brewed more
batches of sake than anyone I know. He has written several articles on
sake for Zymurgy -- the most recent of which I can send you if you
like. I have participated in a couple of those batches and have never
run across the sulferous smell you refer to. The entire process, from
yeast mash to finished product takes 81 days.

Fred has a great, easy-to-follow sake recipe that he is happy to share
with any would-be sake brewer. Send me an e-mail and I can get you his
contact info.
Cheers,

Jim Parker
Editor in chief, Zymurgy

"bregent" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Bob says...
> >
> >
> >"A. M. Hawk Widner" > wrote in message
> >news:eU6Gd.7968$eT5.6413@attbi_s51...
> >> "Tom S" <> wrote >
> >> > Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled.
Around
> >> 55°F
> >> > is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
> >> >
> >> Ah ha! I was misinformed.
> >>
> > Me too, and the rest of the world....
>
> No, not the rest of the world.
>
> > I have =never= heard of chilling sake; it is always supposed to be
> >served at body temp.
> > Bob
>
> Absolutely wrong. There are many Sake's made exclusively to be served
chilled.
> Just look online or go to any good sushi restaurant.
>
Problem: You have used the words "good" and "sushi" in the same
sentence.
Sorry, that's not a problem after all; you could form a sentence that
says "It would be a good thing if sushi had never been introduced into
Western Civilization." Sorry for the mixup.
Bob
--
Remember; Tuesday is Soylent Green Day.

"bregent" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Bob says...
> >
> >
> >"A. M. Hawk Widner" > wrote in message
> >news:eU6Gd.7968$eT5.6413@attbi_s51...
> >> "Tom S" <> wrote >
> >> > Good saki is served like a fine white wine - slightly chilled.
Around
> >> 55°F
> >> > is good. The good stuff is never served warm.
> >> >
> >> Ah ha! I was misinformed.
> >>
> > Me too, and the rest of the world....
>
> No, not the rest of the world.
>
> > I have =never= heard of chilling sake; it is always supposed to be
> >served at body temp.
> > Bob
>
> Absolutely wrong. There are many Sake's made exclusively to be served
chilled.
> Just look online or go to any good sushi restaurant.
>
Problem: You have used the words "good" and "sushi" in the same
sentence.
Sorry, that's not a problem after all; you could form a sentence that
says "It would be a good thing if sushi had never been introduced into
Western Civilization." Sorry for the mixup.
Bob
--
Remember; Tuesday is Soylent Green Day.