As with many amateurs, MLF has often given me lots of problems. This year, I
seem to be doing better and the difference seems to be temperature driven.
I've conducted my MLF's this year at about 78-80 degrees, and the fermentations
have been vigorous. On a couple of occasions, though, the temperature in the
room dropped to about 68-70 degrees, and the MLF's seemingly COMPLETELY
stopped. When I warmed the temperature up, the MLF's resumed nicely.

I'm not sure whether this is due to the partial pressures of C2 in the wine or
whether the MLF's really did slow down, but for the time being, I'm happy at 78
degrees.

Lee

CO2, that is

How and when do you start your MLF? I am new to this and don't totally
understand it but I'm learning.

David

"LG1111" > wrote in message
...
> As with many amateurs, MLF has often given me lots of problems. This
year, I
> seem to be doing better and the difference seems to be temperature driven.
> I've conducted my MLF's this year at about 78-80 degrees, and the
fermentations
> have been vigorous. On a couple of occasions, though, the temperature in
the
> room dropped to about 68-70 degrees, and the MLF's seemingly COMPLETELY
> stopped. When I warmed the temperature up, the MLF's resumed nicely.
>
> I'm not sure whether this is due to the partial pressures of C2 in the
wine or
> whether the MLF's really did slow down, but for the time being, I'm happy
at 78
> degrees.
>
> Lee

"news-server.triad.rr.com" > wrote in message
. com...
> How and when do you start your MLF? I am new to this and don't totally
understand it but I'm learning.
>
> David

More info on MLF here David
http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt13.html

Lee,

My experience with MLF is that it occurs with or without innoculation
although I still innoculate wines that I want to undergo MLF. My
problem is to prevent it in my aromatic wines such as riesling,
gewurztraminer, etc. even in the cool basement and with free SO2 levels
in the 35-40 ppm range.

My wines are made in a basement in which the temperature is always below
lower than comfortable room temperatures, generally around 16 or 17C or
or even cooler in mid-winter.

MLF can occur quite slowly and be a little more difficult to detect when
conditions are not ideal, but clearly it occurs more readily when:
warmer temperatures, alcohol level below 16%, pH of at least 3.2 and
when you use an ML innoculant (oenococcus bacteria). Many of the modern
strains are active at 14C and relatively high SO2 levels.

Glen Duff
---------------------
LG1111 wrote:

> As with many amateurs, MLF has often given me lots of problems. This year, I
> seem to be doing better and the difference seems to be temperature driven.
> I've conducted my MLF's this year at about 78-80 degrees, and the fermentations
> have been vigorous. On a couple of occasions, though, the temperature in the
> room dropped to about 68-70 degrees, and the MLF's seemingly COMPLETELY
> stopped. When I warmed the temperature up, the MLF's resumed nicely.
>
> I'm not sure whether this is due to the partial pressures of C2 in the wine or
> whether the MLF's really did slow down, but for the time being, I'm happy at 78
> degrees.
>
> Lee
>

Hi folks,
I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote
ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting
through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently
running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put
into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium
heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested
it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.

My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have
used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes
handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in
many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only
40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only
explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them
from rinsing.

The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go
through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this
Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white
from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was
clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway
in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip
out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations
with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine
filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about
6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at
bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully
expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.

I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even
thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for
absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out
enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they
obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way
the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that
fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.


Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.

steve

"sapdog" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
> biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
> take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
> and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.

Have you tried inoculating for ML just as the primary is kicking off? The
temperature spike seems to really help. My Chardonnay was pretty much
finished within 6 weeks of crush - and that's in a fairly cool cellar
(60-65°F). Oh yes, no sulfur at crush is probably another factor, as well
as the usual vitamin/nutrient regimen.

In case you're wondering, the juice was 24.8 Brix and 3.43 pH.

Tom S

Hi All,

For my aromatic whites I use 60ppm SO2, 500ppm Lysozyme, ferment at 45-50F
and tight filter 0.5um nominal. Never had a problem with ML in bottle, at
least not yet. I also bentonite fine during cold stabilization to remove
any residual lysozyme.

CHEERS!

Aaron


"sapdog" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi folks,
> I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote
> ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting
> through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently
> running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put
> into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium
> heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested
> it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.
>
> My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have
> used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes
> handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in
> many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only
> 40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only
> explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them
> from rinsing.
>
> The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go
> through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this
> Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white
> from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was
> clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway
> in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip
> out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations
> with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine
> filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about
> 6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at
> bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully
> expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.
>
> I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even
> thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for
> absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out
> enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they
> obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way
> the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that
> fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.
>
>
> Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
> biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
> take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
> and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.
>
> steve
>

Steve and others,

I could have almost written your post exactly as you did and signed it,
knowing that is precisely my experience with whites (gewurztraminer,
riesling, pinot grigio and a variety called geisenheim). Perhaps the
only exception to your post is that I have not made a serious attempt at
really fine filtration. Due to the fact that I have a Buon Vino
Superjet as you do, I believe we are limited to .5 microns. I will now
use this routinely on my whites although the medium filter seemed to
clear my wines more than adequately. I guess the real issue is
stabilization.

Like you I tried the lysozyme route and had mixed results even when
generous doses were used. Man does that stuff foam when added to the
must!!! This year I plan to be a little more agressive with the SO2
maybe taking it up to 50 ppm's although reluctantly. My philsophy has
been to minimize SO2, one of the advantages IMHO of home winemaking.

Apart from sterile filtration and the need to purchase more equipment or
the use of sorbate which I do not like, I am pretty well resigned to the
fact that we have oenococcus all over our cellar and about all I can do
is try to minimize the problem. I rarely have ML in bottles as I bulk
age my whites for at least a year in glass before bottling and if it's
going to go through ML it usually happens by then.

I am purchasing a chromatography kit as there is some guesswork when a
wine is fermented in our cool basement as that can drag on for a long
time especially the last phase from 1.000 to 0.992.

Two questions:
1) When is it a good time to sulfite for bulk aging in whites you do not
want to undergo MLF and at what levels. When I wait till the alcoholic
fermentation is pretty well complete I am concerned that MLF is already
underway. I usually start with juice that is in the 20ppm range at the
time of yeast fermentation so I am thinking by the time the SG is around
1.000 I should probably up it to around 40 or 50 ppm's.

2) I understand there is a Lalvin strain that is recommended for
aromatic wines. I would be interested in any experience with this agent.

Any thoughts from the above two questions would be appreciated.

Glen Duff
-------------------

sapdog wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote
> ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting
> through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently
> running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put
> into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium
> heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested
> it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.
>
> My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have
> used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes
> handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in
> many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only
> 40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only
> explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them
> from rinsing.
>
> The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go
> through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this
> Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white
> from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was
> clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway
> in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip
> out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations
> with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine
> filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about
> 6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at
> bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully
> expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.
>
> I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even
> thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for
> absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out
> enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they
> obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way
> the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that
> fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.
>
>
> Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
> biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
> take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
> and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.
>
> steve
>
>

Steve and others,

I could have almost written your post exactly as you did and signed it,
knowing that is precisely my experience with whites (gewurztraminer,
riesling, pinot grigio and a variety called geisenheim). Perhaps the
only exception to your post is that I have not made a serious attempt at
really fine filtration. Due to the fact that I have a Buon Vino
Superjet as you do, I believe we are limited to .5 microns. I will now
use this routinely on my whites although the medium filter seemed to
clear my wines more than adequately. I guess the real issue is
stabilization.

Like you I tried the lysozyme route and had mixed results even when
generous doses were used. Man does that stuff foam when added to the
must!!! This year I plan to be a little more agressive with the SO2
maybe taking it up to 50 ppm's although reluctantly. My philsophy has
been to minimize SO2, one of the advantages IMHO of home winemaking.

Apart from sterile filtration and the need to purchase more equipment or
the use of sorbate which I do not like, I am pretty well resigned to the
fact that we have oenococcus all over our cellar and about all I can do
is try to minimize the problem. I rarely have ML in bottles as I bulk
age my whites for at least a year in glass before bottling and if it's
going to go through ML it usually happens by then.

I am purchasing a chromatography kit as there is some guesswork when a
wine is fermented in our cool basement as that can drag on for a long
time especially the last phase from 1.000 to 0.992.

Two questions:
1) When is it a good time to sulfite for bulk aging in whites you do not
want to undergo MLF and at what levels. When I wait till the alcoholic
fermentation is pretty well complete I am concerned that MLF is already
underway. I usually start with juice that is in the 20ppm range at the
time of yeast fermentation so I am thinking by the time the SG is around
1.000 I should probably up it to around 40 or 50 ppm's.

2) I understand there is a Lalvin strain that is recommended for
aromatic wines. I would be interested in any experience with this agent.

Any thoughts from the above two questions would be appreciated.

Glen Duff
-------------------

sapdog wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote
> ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting
> through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently
> running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put
> into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium
> heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested
> it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.
>
> My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have
> used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes
> handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in
> many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only
> 40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only
> explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them
> from rinsing.
>
> The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go
> through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this
> Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white
> from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was
> clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway
> in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip
> out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations
> with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine
> filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about
> 6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at
> bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully
> expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.
>
> I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even
> thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for
> absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out
> enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they
> obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way
> the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that
> fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.
>
>
> Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
> biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
> take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
> and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.
>
> steve
>
>

Steve and others,

I could have almost written your post exactly as you did and signed it,
knowing that is precisely my experience with whites (gewurztraminer,
riesling, pinot grigio and a variety called geisenheim). Perhaps the
only exception to your post is that I have not made a serious attempt at
really fine filtration. Due to the fact that I have a Buon Vino
Superjet as you do, I believe we are limited to .5 microns. I will now
use this routinely on my whites although the medium filter seemed to
clear my wines more than adequately. I guess the real issue is
stabilization.

Like you I tried the lysozyme route and had mixed results even when
generous doses were used. Man does that stuff foam when added to the
must!!! This year I plan to be a little more agressive with the SO2
maybe taking it up to 50 ppm's although reluctantly. My philsophy has
been to minimize SO2, one of the advantages IMHO of home winemaking.

Apart from sterile filtration and the need to purchase more equipment or
the use of sorbate which I do not like, I am pretty well resigned to the
fact that we have oenococcus all over our cellar and about all I can do
is try to minimize the problem. I rarely have ML in bottles as I bulk
age my whites for at least a year in glass before bottling and if it's
going to go through ML it usually happens by then.

I am purchasing a chromatography kit as there is some guesswork when a
wine is fermented in our cool basement as that can drag on for a long
time especially the last phase from 1.000 to 0.992.

Two questions:
1) When is it a good time to sulfite for bulk aging in whites you do not
want to undergo MLF and at what levels. When I wait till the alcoholic
fermentation is pretty well complete I am concerned that MLF is already
underway. I usually start with juice that is in the 20ppm range at the
time of yeast fermentation so I am thinking by the time the SG is around
1.000 I should probably up it to around 40 or 50 ppm's.

2) I understand there is a Lalvin strain that is recommended for
aromatic wines. I would be interested in any experience with this agent.

Any thoughts from the above two questions would be appreciated.

Glen Duff
-------------------

sapdog wrote:

sapdog wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote
> ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting
> through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently
> running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put
> into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium
> heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested
> it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.
>
> My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have
> used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes
> handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in
> many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only
> 40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only
> explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them
> from rinsing.
>
> The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go
> through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this
> Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white
> from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was
> clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway
> in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip
> out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations
> with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine
> filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about
> 6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at
> bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully
> expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.
>
> I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even
> thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for
> absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out
> enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they
> obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way
> the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that
> fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.
>
>
> Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
> biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
> take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
> and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.
>
> steve
>
>

Steve and others,

I could have almost written your post exactly as you did and signed it,
knowing that is precisely my experience with whites (gewurztraminer,
riesling, pinot grigio and a variety called geisenheim). Perhaps the
only exception to your post is that I have not made a serious attempt at
really fine filtration. Due to the fact that I have a Buon Vino
Superjet as you do, I believe we are limited to .5 microns. I will now
use this routinely on my whites although the medium filter seemed to
clear my wines more than adequately. I guess the real issue is
stabilization.

Like you I tried the lysozyme route and had mixed results even when
generous doses were used. Man does that stuff foam when added to the
must!!! This year I plan to be a little more agressive with the SO2
maybe taking it up to 50 ppm's although reluctantly. My philsophy has
been to minimize SO2, one of the advantages IMHO of home winemaking.

Apart from sterile filtration and the need to purchase more equipment or
the use of sorbate which I do not like, I am pretty well resigned to the
fact that we have oenococcus all over our cellar and about all I can do
is try to minimize the problem. I rarely have ML in bottles as I bulk
age my whites for at least a year in glass before bottling and if it's
going to go through ML it usually happens by then.

I am purchasing a chromatography kit as there is some guesswork when a
wine is fermented in our cool basement as that can drag on for a long
time especially the last phase from 1.000 to 0.992.

Two questions:
1) When is it a good time to sulfite for bulk aging in whites you do not
want to undergo MLF and at what levels. When I wait till the alcoholic
fermentation is pretty well complete I am concerned that MLF is already
underway. I usually start with juice that is in the 20ppm range at the
time of yeast fermentation so I am thinking by the time the SG is around
1.000 I should probably up it to around 40 or 50 ppm's.

2) I understand there is a Lalvin strain that is recommended for
aromatic wines. I would be interested in any experience with this agent.

Any thoughts from the above two questions would be appreciated.

Glen Duff
-------------------

sapdog wrote:

sapdog wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote
> ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting
> through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently
> running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put
> into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium
> heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested
> it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.
>
> My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have
> used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes
> handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in
> many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only
> 40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only
> explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them
> from rinsing.
>
> The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go
> through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this
> Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white
> from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was
> clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway
> in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip
> out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations
> with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine
> filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about
> 6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at
> bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully
> expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.
>
> I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even
> thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for
> absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out
> enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they
> obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way
> the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that
> fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.
>
>
> Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
> biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
> take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
> and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.
>
> steve
>
>

Steve and others,

I could have almost written your post exactly as you did and signed it,
knowing that is precisely my experience with whites (gewurztraminer,
riesling, pinot grigio and a variety called geisenheim). Perhaps the
only exception to your post is that I have not made a serious attempt at
really fine filtration. Due to the fact that I have a Buon Vino
Superjet as you do, I believe we are limited to .5 microns. I will now
use this routinely on my whites although the medium filter seemed to
clear my wines more than adequately. I guess the real issue is
stabilization.

Like you I tried the lysozyme route and had mixed results even when
generous doses were used. Man does that stuff foam when added to the
must!!! This year I plan to be a little more agressive with the SO2
maybe taking it up to 50 ppm's although reluctantly. My philsophy has
been to minimize SO2, one of the advantages IMHO of home winemaking.

Apart from sterile filtration and the need to purchase more equipment or
the use of sorbate which I do not like, I am pretty well resigned to the
fact that we have oenococcus all over our cellar and about all I can do
is try to minimize the problem. I rarely have ML in bottles as I bulk
age my whites for at least a year in glass before bottling and if it's
going to go through ML it usually happens by then.

I am purchasing a chromatography kit as there is some guesswork when a
wine is fermented in our cool basement as that can drag on for a long
time especially the last phase from 1.000 to 0.992.

Two questions:
1) When is it a good time to sulfite for bulk aging in whites you do not
want to undergo MLF and at what levels. When I wait till the alcoholic
fermentation is pretty well complete I am concerned that MLF is already
underway. I usually start with juice that is in the 20ppm range at the
time of yeast fermentation so I am thinking by the time the SG is around
1.000 I should probably up it to around 40 or 50 ppm's.

2) I understand there is a Lalvin strain that is recommended for
aromatic wines. I would be interested in any experience with this agent.

Any thoughts from the above two questions would be appreciated.

Glen Duff
-------------------

sapdog wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote
> ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting
> through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently
> running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put
> into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium
> heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested
> it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.
>
> My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have
> used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes
> handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in
> many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only
> 40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only
> explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them
> from rinsing.
>
> The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go
> through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this
> Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white
> from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was
> clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway
> in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip
> out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations
> with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine
> filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about
> 6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at
> bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully
> expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.
>
> I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even
> thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for
> absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out
> enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they
> obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way
> the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that
> fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.
>
>
> Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
> biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
> take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
> and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.
>
> steve
>
>

Hi folks,
I also made changes this year to use temperature adjustment to promote
ML. Generally my reds which go into a barrel have no problem getting
through ML - though my barrels are in the basement which is currently
running at about 60F. I had some very high acid CabFranc which I put
into carboy after pressing and used a warm water bath with an aquarium
heater to keep in the high 70's with very active ML. I haven't tested
it yet - but it's going into a barrel as well so no worries.

My problems are similar to Glen's and that is preventing ML. I have
used lyzosyme last year with very mixed results. I dont have my notes
handy but even with several doses (450ppm at least) I still had ML in
many of my bottled wines. It's is interesting though because say only
40-50% of the bottles actually went ML in the bottle. My only
explanation for that would be that some bottle had residual SO2 in them
from rinsing.

The only batch of white from last year that didn't have some bottles go
through was a Gewurz. Now the interesting thing there is that this
Gewurz was fairly bitter - (mostly because I was new to making white
from grapes - and didn't make enough effort to ensure the juice was
clear and settled after pressing - before pitching the yeast). Anyway
in order to salvage the wine I thought I'd filter it to try and strip
out the bitterness and sweeten it. So I put it through 2 filtrations
with my Superjet - once with the medium filter and once with the fine
filter. I then back-sweetened this wine - without any sorbate to about
6-8g/l using a white concentrate. I did use some lyzosyme and SO2 at
bottling - but truthfully I think I was pushing my luck and fully
expected it to be blowing corks. But it isn't.

I probably got lucky on that one - but I would have to say that even
thought the fine filter pads on the Superjet aren't sufficient for
absolute sterile filtration - they must of helped in stripping out
enough bacteria to make the lysozyme and SO2 effective. Plus they
obviously blocked enough yeast to prevent a refermentation. By the way
the wine still is bitter, not as bad but noticeable alas it has that
fabulous Gewurz nose, which I have never got from a juice based Gewurz.


Sorry for the long notes - but really ML especially in whites is the
biggest headache I have in winemaking. In most of my whites it seems to
take forever, if I don't take the effort to keep them warm. Even then,
and with the addition of ML nutrient it seems to take forever.

steve