Hello,
I posted earlier about my Zin with 26 brix. I used pasture red yeast and
I can taste some residual sugar in my wine. The wine is below 0 brix .996
SG last time I checked and I ordered some clinitest tablets to figure out
how much sugar is left. How much is too much? Should I add some killer
yeast? Also I read somewhere that residual sugar and MLF are not a good
combination, but how much residual sugar is not clear since most wine would
have some residual sugar, right? I used Viniflora oenos.

Also for those interested I checked the ML progress with paper
chromatography and there is clearly some Malic acid left and there is a spot
that should be lactic acid so I guess the conversion is still underway and
when I had my samples in a 50 ml tube I had to open it every once in a while
to let gas escape. The pH is now 4.1 after microwaving (4.22 before) and I
got a TA of 5.5 but this could be wrong because instead of measuring volume
I weighed the flask and then brought it back up to the original weight after
microwaving, but I forgot that alcohol does not have the same density as
water (.78 grams per ml instead of 1 gram per ml so actually the real value
may be slightly lower if it is significant at all) but it doesn't matter
until MLF is complete since the value is going to change).
-Alex P

"Alex" > wrote:

> I posted earlier about my Zin with 26 brix. I used pasture red yeast and
> I can taste some residual sugar in my wine. The wine is below 0 brix .996
> SG last time I checked and I ordered some clinitest tablets to figure out
> how much sugar is left. How much is too much? Should I add some killer
> yeast? Also I read somewhere that residual sugar and MLF are not a good
> combination, but how much residual sugar is not clear since most wine would
> have some residual sugar, right? I used Viniflora oenos.

MLB can metabolise sugar yielding undesirable products (e.g. acetic
acid). "Safe" r.s. levels might be considered as < 2 g/l of reducing
sugars - so you *should probably* be just OK in this case.

> when I had my samples in a 50 ml tube I had to open it every once in a while
> to let gas escape. The pH is now 4.1 after microwaving (4.22 before) and I
> got a TA of 5.5 but this could be wrong because instead of measuring volume
....
> microwaving, but I forgot that alcohol does not have the same density as
> water (.78 grams per ml instead of 1 gram per ml so actually the real value

The difference is insignificant - you need not worry. Say your wine is
at 12% abv and your sample was 50 ml total. The weight of this sample
is 48.8 grams (50 ml * 0.12 * 0.792 + 50 ml * 0.48 * 1). So when you
reconstitute the boiled sample with water to the original weight (48.8
g), the reconsituted volume becomes 48.8 ml (it's all water, 48.8 g =
48.8 ml). The difference (50 - 48.8 = 1.2 ml) is just 2.4%/volume,
i.e. not significant.

In which case, that pH is pretty high and it would be nice to get it
down!

Ben

Improved Winemaking
http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/

That pH is way too high, I would try to get it to at least 3.5 with
tartaric, especially if you want to do MLF. I would agree with Ben on
0.2% RS.
Joe

(Ben Rotter) wrote in message . com>...
> "Alex" > wrote:
>
> > I posted earlier about my Zin with 26 brix. I used pasture red yeast and
> > I can taste some residual sugar in my wine. The wine is below 0 brix .996
> > SG last time I checked and I ordered some clinitest tablets to figure out
> > how much sugar is left. How much is too much? Should I add some killer
> > yeast? Also I read somewhere that residual sugar and MLF are not a good
> > combination, but how much residual sugar is not clear since most wine would
> > have some residual sugar, right? I used Viniflora oenos.
>
> MLB can metabolise sugar yielding undesirable products (e.g. acetic
> acid). "Safe" r.s. levels might be considered as < 2 g/l of reducing
> sugars - so you *should probably* be just OK in this case.
>
> > when I had my samples in a 50 ml tube I had to open it every once in a while
> > to let gas escape. The pH is now 4.1 after microwaving (4.22 before) and I
> > got a TA of 5.5 but this could be wrong because instead of measuring volume
> ...
> > microwaving, but I forgot that alcohol does not have the same density as
> > water (.78 grams per ml instead of 1 gram per ml so actually the real value
>
> The difference is insignificant - you need not worry. Say your wine is
> at 12% abv and your sample was 50 ml total. The weight of this sample
> is 48.8 grams (50 ml * 0.12 * 0.792 + 50 ml * 0.48 * 1). So when you
> reconstitute the boiled sample with water to the original weight (48.8
> g), the reconsituted volume becomes 48.8 ml (it's all water, 48.8 g =
> 48.8 ml). The difference (50 - 48.8 = 1.2 ml) is just 2.4%/volume,
> i.e. not significant.
>
> In which case, that pH is pretty high and it would be nice to get it
> down!
>
> Ben
>
> Improved Winemaking
> http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/

That pH is way too high, I would try to get it to at least 3.5 with
tartaric, especially if you want to do MLF. I would agree with Ben on
0.2% RS.
Joe

(Ben Rotter) wrote in message . com>...
> "Alex" > wrote:
>
> > I posted earlier about my Zin with 26 brix. I used pasture red yeast and
> > I can taste some residual sugar in my wine. The wine is below 0 brix .996
> > SG last time I checked and I ordered some clinitest tablets to figure out
> > how much sugar is left. How much is too much? Should I add some killer
> > yeast? Also I read somewhere that residual sugar and MLF are not a good
> > combination, but how much residual sugar is not clear since most wine would
> > have some residual sugar, right? I used Viniflora oenos.
>
> MLB can metabolise sugar yielding undesirable products (e.g. acetic
> acid). "Safe" r.s. levels might be considered as < 2 g/l of reducing
> sugars - so you *should probably* be just OK in this case.
>
> > when I had my samples in a 50 ml tube I had to open it every once in a while
> > to let gas escape. The pH is now 4.1 after microwaving (4.22 before) and I
> > got a TA of 5.5 but this could be wrong because instead of measuring volume
> ...
> > microwaving, but I forgot that alcohol does not have the same density as
> > water (.78 grams per ml instead of 1 gram per ml so actually the real value
>
> The difference is insignificant - you need not worry. Say your wine is
> at 12% abv and your sample was 50 ml total. The weight of this sample
> is 48.8 grams (50 ml * 0.12 * 0.792 + 50 ml * 0.48 * 1). So when you
> reconstitute the boiled sample with water to the original weight (48.8
> g), the reconsituted volume becomes 48.8 ml (it's all water, 48.8 g =
> 48.8 ml). The difference (50 - 48.8 = 1.2 ml) is just 2.4%/volume,
> i.e. not significant.
>
> In which case, that pH is pretty high and it would be nice to get it
> down!
>
> Ben
>
> Improved Winemaking
> http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/

"Alex" > wrote in message >...
> Hello,
> I posted earlier about my Zin with 26 brix. I used pasture red yeast and
> I can taste some residual sugar in my wine. The wine is below 0 brix .996
> SG last time I checked and I ordered some clinitest tablets to figure out
> how much sugar is left. How much is too much? Should I add some killer
> yeast? Also I read somewhere that residual sugar and MLF are not a good
> combination, but how much residual sugar is not clear since most wine would
> have some residual sugar, right? I used Viniflora oenos.
>
> Also for those interested I checked the ML progress with paper
> chromatography and there is clearly some Malic acid left and there is a spot
> that should be lactic acid so I guess the conversion is still underway and
> when I had my samples in a 50 ml tube I had to open it every once in a while
> to let gas escape. The pH is now 4.1 after microwaving (4.22 before) and I
> got a TA of 5.5 but this could be wrong because instead of measuring volume
> I weighed the flask and then brought it back up to the original weight after
> microwaving, but I forgot that alcohol does not have the same density as
> water (.78 grams per ml instead of 1 gram per ml so actually the real value
> may be slightly lower if it is significant at all) but it doesn't matter
> until MLF is complete since the value is going to change).
> -Alex P


I wouldn't worry about the sugar. As the others have said, MLF and
sugar can give problems with volatile acidity but most sources aren't
as strict as they said (0.2%) in what you should have. Wyeast
recommends adding their culture, for example, when primary is 1/2 to
2/3 through - in other words, 8-12 brix. I've read about at least one
commericial winery doing it at 6 brix. Another manufacturer of dry ML
culture suggests only that the juice used to expand the culture be
below 20 brix.

So the level of sugar you have should be no issue as far as MLF goes.
At SG .996 you definitely have some but whether it's worth restarting
fermentation is a matter of your taste. Plenty of wineries have
discovered that a little residual sugar helps sell supposedly "dry"
wines, maybe you'll like it. As the others have said, I'd be more
concerned about a pH of 4.1.

- Mark W.

"Alex" > wrote in message >...
> Hello,
> I posted earlier about my Zin with 26 brix. I used pasture red yeast and
> I can taste some residual sugar in my wine. The wine is below 0 brix .996
> SG last time I checked and I ordered some clinitest tablets to figure out
> how much sugar is left. How much is too much? Should I add some killer
> yeast? Also I read somewhere that residual sugar and MLF are not a good
> combination, but how much residual sugar is not clear since most wine would
> have some residual sugar, right? I used Viniflora oenos.
>
> Also for those interested I checked the ML progress with paper
> chromatography and there is clearly some Malic acid left and there is a spot
> that should be lactic acid so I guess the conversion is still underway and
> when I had my samples in a 50 ml tube I had to open it every once in a while
> to let gas escape. The pH is now 4.1 after microwaving (4.22 before) and I
> got a TA of 5.5 but this could be wrong because instead of measuring volume
> I weighed the flask and then brought it back up to the original weight after
> microwaving, but I forgot that alcohol does not have the same density as
> water (.78 grams per ml instead of 1 gram per ml so actually the real value
> may be slightly lower if it is significant at all) but it doesn't matter
> until MLF is complete since the value is going to change).
> -Alex P


I wouldn't worry about the sugar. As the others have said, MLF and
sugar can give problems with volatile acidity but most sources aren't
as strict as they said (0.2%) in what you should have. Wyeast
recommends adding their culture, for example, when primary is 1/2 to
2/3 through - in other words, 8-12 brix. I've read about at least one
commericial winery doing it at 6 brix. Another manufacturer of dry ML
culture suggests only that the juice used to expand the culture be
below 20 brix.

So the level of sugar you have should be no issue as far as MLF goes.
At SG .996 you definitely have some but whether it's worth restarting
fermentation is a matter of your taste. Plenty of wineries have
discovered that a little residual sugar helps sell supposedly "dry"
wines, maybe you'll like it. As the others have said, I'd be more
concerned about a pH of 4.1.

- Mark W.

Uh oh. My grapes were running at 29+ brix so I pitched the ML culture
real quick to minimize any problems with high alcohol.

Any thoughts on options at this point? what should I look for (taste
for)?

> MLB can metabolise sugar yielding undesirable products (e.g. acetic
> acid). "Safe" r.s. levels might be considered as < 2 g/l of reducing
> sugars - so you *should probably* be just OK in this case.