After hearing about "Procacci Bros." at the Food Distribution Center in
South Philadelphia, where California wine grapes are shipped in and made
available for sale, we took at trip this past Friday to check it out.
Procacci Bros. operates out of a loading doc, where they have a huge
refrigerated area with wooden crates full of wine grapes that have been
sulfited and shipped refrigerated. They also have lots of bulk grape
processing equipment at reasonable prices ... destemmers, crushers, wooden
barrels, demi johns, etc. If you have an old Italian neighbor who makes
wine in a big ole wooden barrel like his grandfather did, and he lives near
Philadelphia, Procacci Bros. is likely where he buys his grapes.

We walked through the refrigerated area and checked out all the grape
varieties ... I had forgotten my refractometer in our rush to get going that
morning (and due to some hectic cell phone calls from work), so we just
picked a couple of varieties (Zinfandel and Petit Syrah), and bought 3 boxes
of each, at 36 lbs. per wooden box at $32 per box.

This made for about 80 liters (about 8 1/2 gallons) of must for each variety
after destemming and crushing, and I have these cold soaking, each variety
divided into to two batches in separate 7 gallon primary fermenters. The
Zinfandel looks like it may work out ... there was a large variation in the
grapes, leaving the two batches with very different numbers. One has a low
pH and TA, and the other a high pH and TA. Once I combine the two, I think
it should even out pretty well. One batch is at 26 Brix/3.13pH/.7TA, and
the other 22 Brix/3.6pH/.9TA. I added 13gm of potassium bicarbonate to the
second batch to bring down the TA. That left the pH at about 3.7, which is
too high, but should correct on mixing back with the first batch.

The Petit Syrah, on the other hand, is problematic. The two batches there
have identical numbers: 21 Brix, .85 TA, 3.75 pH. That pH was just too
high, so I added 50 gm total of acid blend. Straight tartaric acid would
probably have been a better choice, but I had acid blend available, and
that's what I used. Now the pH is reading about 3.6, but the TA is up at
about 1.0. I also added 26lbs of sugar to bump the sugar to 23 Brix.

Does anyone have recommendations for the Petit Sarah? A MLF will raise the
pH, and even after my acid addition, the pH is still at the maximum it
should be. After fermentation, I may need to adjust the acid upwards again
to get back into a healthy pH range.

Is this a "doomed" wine? Will the TA be so high after the acid additions to
get the pH at an acceptable level, that the wine will be unpleasant?
Bleanding might be an answer, but I would need a low TA/high pH wine to
blend with ... one of my two batches of Zin fits that description, but at
this point I think I'd rather blend that with the other Zin batch. Any
recommendations or commentary appreciated!
Jon

Errata: Where I said I added 26 "lbs" of sugar, I really meant 26 ozs. I'm
not even sure you could get 26 lbs to dissolve in that much must ).

Errata: Where I said I added 26 "lbs" of sugar, I really meant 26 ozs. I'm
not even sure you could get 26 lbs to dissolve in that much must ).

Errata: Where I said I added 26 "lbs" of sugar, I really meant 26 ozs. I'm
not even sure you could get 26 lbs to dissolve in that much must ).

"Jon Gilliam" > wrote in message
...
> This made for about 80 liters (about 8 1/2 gallons) of must for each
variety
> after destemming and crushing, and I have these cold soaking, each variety
> divided into to two batches in separate 7 gallon primary fermenters. The
> Zinfandel looks like it may work out ... there was a large variation in
the
> grapes, leaving the two batches with very different numbers. One has a
low
> pH and TA, and the other a high pH and TA. Once I combine the two, I
think
> it should even out pretty well. One batch is at 26 Brix/3.13pH/.7TA, and
> the other 22 Brix/3.6pH/.9TA. I added 13gm of potassium bicarbonate to
the
> second batch to bring down the TA. That left the pH at about 3.7, which
is
> too high, but should correct on mixing back with the first batch.

IMO you were too busy with the acid adjustment on this wine. Also, I find
it hard to believe that the Brix on the first is at 26° and the pH down
below 3.2. Are you _sure_ about those #s?

> The Petit Syrah, on the other hand, is problematic. The two batches there
> have identical numbers: 21 Brix, .85 TA, 3.75 pH.

It would have been nice if the fruit had been picked at full ripeness. By
then the pH would have been in the 4s, but that's nothing a little tartaric
couldn't fix. :^)

> Now the pH is reading about 3.6, but the TA is up at
> about 1.0. I also added 26lbs of sugar to bump the sugar to 23 Brix.
>
> Does anyone have recommendations for the Petit Sarah? A MLF will raise
the
> pH, and even after my acid addition, the pH is still at the maximum it
> should be. After fermentation, I may need to adjust the acid upwards
again
> to get back into a healthy pH range.
>
> Is this a "doomed" wine? Will the TA be so high after the acid additions
to
> get the pH at an acceptable level, that the wine will be unpleasant?

I doubt it, and I probably wouldn't add any more acid. Petite Syrah often
has high pH, and the excess TA will drop out with cold stabilization. You
have to be careful tending it to prevent spoilage, but if you keep the free
SO2 up and all containers topped up it should be OK.

Tom S

"Jon Gilliam" > wrote in message
...
> This made for about 80 liters (about 8 1/2 gallons) of must for each
variety
> after destemming and crushing, and I have these cold soaking, each variety
> divided into to two batches in separate 7 gallon primary fermenters. The
> Zinfandel looks like it may work out ... there was a large variation in
the
> grapes, leaving the two batches with very different numbers. One has a
low
> pH and TA, and the other a high pH and TA. Once I combine the two, I
think
> it should even out pretty well. One batch is at 26 Brix/3.13pH/.7TA, and
> the other 22 Brix/3.6pH/.9TA. I added 13gm of potassium bicarbonate to
the
> second batch to bring down the TA. That left the pH at about 3.7, which
is
> too high, but should correct on mixing back with the first batch.

IMO you were too busy with the acid adjustment on this wine. Also, I find
it hard to believe that the Brix on the first is at 26° and the pH down
below 3.2. Are you _sure_ about those #s?

> The Petit Syrah, on the other hand, is problematic. The two batches there
> have identical numbers: 21 Brix, .85 TA, 3.75 pH.

It would have been nice if the fruit had been picked at full ripeness. By
then the pH would have been in the 4s, but that's nothing a little tartaric
couldn't fix. :^)

> Now the pH is reading about 3.6, but the TA is up at
> about 1.0. I also added 26lbs of sugar to bump the sugar to 23 Brix.
>
> Does anyone have recommendations for the Petit Sarah? A MLF will raise
the
> pH, and even after my acid addition, the pH is still at the maximum it
> should be. After fermentation, I may need to adjust the acid upwards
again
> to get back into a healthy pH range.
>
> Is this a "doomed" wine? Will the TA be so high after the acid additions
to
> get the pH at an acceptable level, that the wine will be unpleasant?

I doubt it, and I probably wouldn't add any more acid. Petite Syrah often
has high pH, and the excess TA will drop out with cold stabilization. You
have to be careful tending it to prevent spoilage, but if you keep the free
SO2 up and all containers topped up it should be OK.

Tom S

"Jon Gilliam" > wrote in message
...
> This made for about 80 liters (about 8 1/2 gallons) of must for each
variety
> after destemming and crushing, and I have these cold soaking, each variety
> divided into to two batches in separate 7 gallon primary fermenters. The
> Zinfandel looks like it may work out ... there was a large variation in
the
> grapes, leaving the two batches with very different numbers. One has a
low
> pH and TA, and the other a high pH and TA. Once I combine the two, I
think
> it should even out pretty well. One batch is at 26 Brix/3.13pH/.7TA, and
> the other 22 Brix/3.6pH/.9TA. I added 13gm of potassium bicarbonate to
the
> second batch to bring down the TA. That left the pH at about 3.7, which
is
> too high, but should correct on mixing back with the first batch.

IMO you were too busy with the acid adjustment on this wine. Also, I find
it hard to believe that the Brix on the first is at 26° and the pH down
below 3.2. Are you _sure_ about those #s?

> The Petit Syrah, on the other hand, is problematic. The two batches there
> have identical numbers: 21 Brix, .85 TA, 3.75 pH.

It would have been nice if the fruit had been picked at full ripeness. By
then the pH would have been in the 4s, but that's nothing a little tartaric
couldn't fix. :^)

> Now the pH is reading about 3.6, but the TA is up at
> about 1.0. I also added 26lbs of sugar to bump the sugar to 23 Brix.
>
> Does anyone have recommendations for the Petit Sarah? A MLF will raise
the
> pH, and even after my acid addition, the pH is still at the maximum it
> should be. After fermentation, I may need to adjust the acid upwards
again
> to get back into a healthy pH range.
>
> Is this a "doomed" wine? Will the TA be so high after the acid additions
to
> get the pH at an acceptable level, that the wine will be unpleasant?

I doubt it, and I probably wouldn't add any more acid. Petite Syrah often
has high pH, and the excess TA will drop out with cold stabilization. You
have to be careful tending it to prevent spoilage, but if you keep the free
SO2 up and all containers topped up it should be OK.

Tom S

Jon,
Are you sure of your instruments? That TA is odd for central valley
fruit. The pH is not unusual though.. If the must was fermenting at
all the values are skewed by the CO2. You can heat it to drive it out
and add water back to the original volume. 50 to 100 ml would do it.
The alcohol level may be a bit high now, but i would leave it alone.

I would consider adding tartaric until you get to at least 3.5, cold
stabilization will pull it back out. Don't use any more acid blend,
only tartaric, but check the normality of your NAOH first.

Joe

"Jon Gilliam" > wrote in message >...
> Errata: Where I said I added 26 "lbs" of sugar, I really meant 26 ozs. I'm
> not even sure you could get 26 lbs to dissolve in that much must ).

Jon,
Are you sure of your instruments? That TA is odd for central valley
fruit. The pH is not unusual though.. If the must was fermenting at
all the values are skewed by the CO2. You can heat it to drive it out
and add water back to the original volume. 50 to 100 ml would do it.
The alcohol level may be a bit high now, but i would leave it alone.

I would consider adding tartaric until you get to at least 3.5, cold
stabilization will pull it back out. Don't use any more acid blend,
only tartaric, but check the normality of your NAOH first.

Joe

"Jon Gilliam" > wrote in message >...
> Errata: Where I said I added 26 "lbs" of sugar, I really meant 26 ozs. I'm
> not even sure you could get 26 lbs to dissolve in that much must ).