I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.

I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
from the tank?

Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Andrew

confused wrote:
> I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
>
> I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> from the tank?
>
> Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew

There is an article in the spring 2001 Winemaker magazine that details
using 5 gallon soda kegs as storage containers. They use argon or
nitrogen to push the wine out of the keg through a tap system like the
brewers use. The advantage of using argon or nitrogen is that those
gases will exclude oxygen and prevent all the bad stuff that can happen
in it's presence.

Regards

Frank

(confused) wrote in message om>...
> I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
>
> I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> from the tank?
>
> Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew

Andrew -
I think bottles do two things for you. First and most important,
you are keeping air away from the wine. Second, they are (relatively)
portable. You can take a bottle or two along on a picnic, when you
really wouldn't want to bring a whole barrel.

Most bulk storage methods (barrels, etc.) don't lend themselves
well to keeping air away from the wine, as you gradually consume the
wine. If you have a tank with a flexible air-tight lid, so that the
effective volume of the tank decreases as you remove wine, you could
dispense wine directly from the tank and not have a problem
(theoretically).

I don't have such a contraption, so I can't say how well they
work in practice.


Doug

On 08/08/2004 10:23 AM, confused said:
> I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
>
> I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> from the tank?
>
> Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>

In C.J.J. Berry's bookd 'First Steps in Winemaking', page 60, he
leaves wine in the carboy as long as possible. "For daily use they
then go into Winemaids, those plastic bags in cardboard outers".

I'm not familiar with the term Winemaids, but I guess it's like wine
in a box. I never tried it, but if those things can be reused, it
should do what you're looking for.


--
Joe
http://www.joekaz.net/
http://www.cafeshops.com/joekaz

Doug -

Thanks for the reply. I beleve you are correct... Perhaps I should
just purchase some larger bottles and a good floor corker. Although
bottling day has given me an excuse not to visit a gym...

I have seen numerous (expensive) variable capacity stainless steel
tanks on the internet. Is that what you are referring to in the later
part of your post?

Thanks again,
Andrew

(Doug) wrote in message om>...
> (confused) wrote in message om>...
> > I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> > firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> > the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
> >
> > I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> > can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> > required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> > from the tank?
> >
> > Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Andrew
>
> Andrew -
> I think bottles do two things for you. First and most important,
> you are keeping air away from the wine. Second, they are (relatively)
> portable. You can take a bottle or two along on a picnic, when you
> really wouldn't want to bring a whole barrel.
>
> Most bulk storage methods (barrels, etc.) don't lend themselves
> well to keeping air away from the wine, as you gradually consume the
> wine. If you have a tank with a flexible air-tight lid, so that the
> effective volume of the tank decreases as you remove wine, you could
> dispense wine directly from the tank and not have a problem
> (theoretically).
>
> I don't have such a contraption, so I can't say how well they
> work in practice.
>
>
> Doug

Joe -

Thanks for the message. I will take a look at the book and see if I
can find more information about the winemaids. As for using the
carboy as long as possible, I understand...but when you would take a
little amount out of the carboy (for a winemaid, etc.) wouldn't you
have to remove all the wine from the carboy at that time as there
would be air at the top? Thanks again..

Andrew

Joe > wrote in message >. ..
> On 08/08/2004 10:23 AM, confused said:
> > I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> > firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> > the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
> >
> > I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> > can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> > required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> > from the tank?
> >
> > Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> >
>
> In C.J.J. Berry's bookd 'First Steps in Winemaking', page 60, he
> leaves wine in the carboy as long as possible. "For daily use they
> then go into Winemaids, those plastic bags in cardboard outers".
>
> I'm not familiar with the term Winemaids, but I guess it's like wine
> in a box. I never tried it, but if those things can be reused, it
> should do what you're looking for.

Joe -

Thanks for the message. I will take a look at the book and see if I
can find more information about the winemaids. As for using the
carboy as long as possible, I understand...but when you would take a
little amount out of the carboy (for a winemaid, etc.) wouldn't you
have to remove all the wine from the carboy at that time as there
would be air at the top? Thanks again..

Andrew

Joe > wrote in message >. ..
> On 08/08/2004 10:23 AM, confused said:
> > I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> > firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> > the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
> >
> > I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> > can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> > required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> > from the tank?
> >
> > Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> >
>
> In C.J.J. Berry's bookd 'First Steps in Winemaking', page 60, he
> leaves wine in the carboy as long as possible. "For daily use they
> then go into Winemaids, those plastic bags in cardboard outers".
>
> I'm not familiar with the term Winemaids, but I guess it's like wine
> in a box. I never tried it, but if those things can be reused, it
> should do what you're looking for.

Frank -

Thanks for the information. I will try to get a copy of this article
from the library.

Andrew

Frank Mirigliano > wrote in message >...
> confused wrote:
> > I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> > firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> > the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
> >
> > I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> > can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> > required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> > from the tank?
> >
> > Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Andrew
>
> There is an article in the spring 2001 Winemaker magazine that details
> using 5 gallon soda kegs as storage containers. They use argon or
> nitrogen to push the wine out of the keg through a tap system like the
> brewers use. The advantage of using argon or nitrogen is that those
> gases will exclude oxygen and prevent all the bad stuff that can happen
> in it's presence.
>
> Regards
>
> Frank

You can't take a little from the carboy and leave it - definitely not.

But I think Berry's idea is to rack the entire carboy into the
Winemaid (plastic bag), assuming you will be drinking it all in the
next few weeks. The bag collapses as you draw wine from it, and no
air gets in, so it stays safe from oxidation. Search Google for
'wine in a box' - this is the stuff you find in liquor stores now,
and see behind bars. From what I found in Google, the wine in a
box stays fresh for a month or more once opened. So I assume the
same would hold true for home made wine.

I've never done it, but since you bought it up, I may give it a try.
I think the key will be to find a Winemaid / wine in a box of a size
that matches my carboys - right now 1 gallon or 3 gallons.


On 08/09/2004 07:58 AM, confused said:
> Joe -
>
> Thanks for the message. I will take a look at the book and see if I
> can find more information about the winemaids. As for using the
> carboy as long as possible, I understand...but when you would take a
> little amount out of the carboy (for a winemaid, etc.) wouldn't you
> have to remove all the wine from the carboy at that time as there
> would be air at the top? Thanks again..
>
> Andrew
>
> Joe > wrote in message >. ..
>
>>On 08/08/2004 10:23 AM, confused said:
>>
>>>I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
>>>firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
>>>the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
>>>
>>>I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
>>>can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
>>>required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
>>>from the tank?
>>>
>>>Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>
>>In C.J.J. Berry's bookd 'First Steps in Winemaking', page 60, he
>>leaves wine in the carboy as long as possible. "For daily use they
>>then go into Winemaids, those plastic bags in cardboard outers".
>>
>>I'm not familiar with the term Winemaids, but I guess it's like wine
>>in a box. I never tried it, but if those things can be reused, it
>>should do what you're looking for.


--
Joe
http://www.joekaz.net/
http://www.cafeshops.com/joekaz

You can't take a little from the carboy and leave it - definitely not.

But I think Berry's idea is to rack the entire carboy into the
Winemaid (plastic bag), assuming you will be drinking it all in the
next few weeks. The bag collapses as you draw wine from it, and no
air gets in, so it stays safe from oxidation. Search Google for
'wine in a box' - this is the stuff you find in liquor stores now,
and see behind bars. From what I found in Google, the wine in a
box stays fresh for a month or more once opened. So I assume the
same would hold true for home made wine.

I've never done it, but since you bought it up, I may give it a try.
I think the key will be to find a Winemaid / wine in a box of a size
that matches my carboys - right now 1 gallon or 3 gallons.


On 08/09/2004 07:58 AM, confused said:
> Joe -
>
> Thanks for the message. I will take a look at the book and see if I
> can find more information about the winemaids. As for using the
> carboy as long as possible, I understand...but when you would take a
> little amount out of the carboy (for a winemaid, etc.) wouldn't you
> have to remove all the wine from the carboy at that time as there
> would be air at the top? Thanks again..
>
> Andrew
>
> Joe > wrote in message >. ..
>
>>On 08/08/2004 10:23 AM, confused said:
>>
>>>I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
>>>firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
>>>the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
>>>
>>>I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
>>>can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
>>>required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
>>>from the tank?
>>>
>>>Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>
>>In C.J.J. Berry's bookd 'First Steps in Winemaking', page 60, he
>>leaves wine in the carboy as long as possible. "For daily use they
>>then go into Winemaids, those plastic bags in cardboard outers".
>>
>>I'm not familiar with the term Winemaids, but I guess it's like wine
>>in a box. I never tried it, but if those things can be reused, it
>>should do what you're looking for.


--
Joe
http://www.joekaz.net/
http://www.cafeshops.com/joekaz

>For larger batches,
can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
from the tank?

Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
<

The problem would not be with the wine dispensed but with the wine remaining
in the tank - air will be left in a partially filled tank leading to
oxidation.

--
groeten van Bart

>For larger batches,
can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
from the tank?

Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
<

The problem would not be with the wine dispensed but with the wine remaining
in the tank - air will be left in a partially filled tank leading to
oxidation.

--
groeten van Bart

>For larger batches,
can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
from the tank?

Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
<

The problem would not be with the wine dispensed but with the wine remaining
in the tank - air will be left in a partially filled tank leading to
oxidation.

--
groeten van Bart

Berry also suggests racking you wine into 1 gal carboyees and the bottling
them one gal at a time as you need them. Sounds practical but I would
rather get the job overwith.

Ray

"Joe" > wrote in message
.. .
> You can't take a little from the carboy and leave it - definitely not.
>
> But I think Berry's idea is to rack the entire carboy into the
> Winemaid (plastic bag), assuming you will be drinking it all in the
> next few weeks. The bag collapses as you draw wine from it, and no
> air gets in, so it stays safe from oxidation. Search Google for
> 'wine in a box' - this is the stuff you find in liquor stores now,
> and see behind bars. From what I found in Google, the wine in a
> box stays fresh for a month or more once opened. So I assume the
> same would hold true for home made wine.
>
> I've never done it, but since you bought it up, I may give it a try.
> I think the key will be to find a Winemaid / wine in a box of a size
> that matches my carboys - right now 1 gallon or 3 gallons.
>
>
> On 08/09/2004 07:58 AM, confused said:
> > Joe -
> >
> > Thanks for the message. I will take a look at the book and see if I
> > can find more information about the winemaids. As for using the
> > carboy as long as possible, I understand...but when you would take a
> > little amount out of the carboy (for a winemaid, etc.) wouldn't you
> > have to remove all the wine from the carboy at that time as there
> > would be air at the top? Thanks again..
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > Joe > wrote in message
>. ..
> >
> >>On 08/08/2004 10:23 AM, confused said:
> >>
> >>>I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> >>>firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> >>>the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
> >>>
> >>>I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> >>>can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> >>>required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> >>>from the tank?
> >>>
> >>>Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> >>>
> >>
> >>In C.J.J. Berry's bookd 'First Steps in Winemaking', page 60, he
> >>leaves wine in the carboy as long as possible. "For daily use they
> >>then go into Winemaids, those plastic bags in cardboard outers".
> >>
> >>I'm not familiar with the term Winemaids, but I guess it's like wine
> >>in a box. I never tried it, but if those things can be reused, it
> >>should do what you're looking for.
>
>
> --
> Joe
> http://www.joekaz.net/
> http://www.cafeshops.com/joekaz
>

Thanks for the reply.

Would a variable capacity tank (with a floating lid) be able to
perform this task without the risk of oxidation?

Andrew

"Bart van Herk" > wrote in message ll.nl>...
> >For larger batches,
> can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> from the tank?
>
> Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
> <
>
> The problem would not be with the wine dispensed but with the wine remaining
> in the tank - air will be left in a partially filled tank leading to
> oxidation.

confused > wrote:

> I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
>
> I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> from the tank?
>
> Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew

I have used wine boxes from Brewmaster in the UK. These have a capacity
of 1 imperial gallon. They are laminated clear plastic with a foil
laminate between the clear plastic. They have a plastic bung/tap/pourer
at one corner. The plastic bag is supported by a cardboard box with a
hole in one end to support the bung/tap.

Commercial wine boxes are similar, but smaller (2 to 3 litres in the
UK).

I do not know if one can get the gallon boxes now. I have several
recycled commercial boxes that I have used in the past.

I undestand that commercial producers add preservative to the wine they
place in boxes. This means that without preservative, your wine is
unlikey to keep as well as the commercial boxes. Worth baring in mind.

--
Regards, Shane
"A closed mouth gathers no feet!"
Website: http://www.wonk.demon.co.uk/

confused > wrote:

> I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
>
> I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> from the tank?
>
> Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew

I have used wine boxes from Brewmaster in the UK. These have a capacity
of 1 imperial gallon. They are laminated clear plastic with a foil
laminate between the clear plastic. They have a plastic bung/tap/pourer
at one corner. The plastic bag is supported by a cardboard box with a
hole in one end to support the bung/tap.

Commercial wine boxes are similar, but smaller (2 to 3 litres in the
UK).

I do not know if one can get the gallon boxes now. I have several
recycled commercial boxes that I have used in the past.

I undestand that commercial producers add preservative to the wine they
place in boxes. This means that without preservative, your wine is
unlikey to keep as well as the commercial boxes. Worth baring in mind.

--
Regards, Shane
"A closed mouth gathers no feet!"
Website: http://www.wonk.demon.co.uk/

confused > wrote:

> I have made a some wine and have always bottled the wine after the
> firmentation has ended in a glass carboy. I then leave the wine in
> the bottles for some time until ready for consumption.
>
> I am curious if bottling is absolutely required. For larger batches,
> can I use a stainless steel tank to age and then dispense the wine as
> required into a glass or carafe for immediate consumption directly
> from the tank?
>
> Any information or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew

I have used wine boxes from Brewmaster in the UK. These have a capacity
of 1 imperial gallon. They are laminated clear plastic with a foil
laminate between the clear plastic. They have a plastic bung/tap/pourer
at one corner. The plastic bag is supported by a cardboard box with a
hole in one end to support the bung/tap.

Commercial wine boxes are similar, but smaller (2 to 3 litres in the
UK).

I do not know if one can get the gallon boxes now. I have several
recycled commercial boxes that I have used in the past.

I undestand that commercial producers add preservative to the wine they
place in boxes. This means that without preservative, your wine is
unlikey to keep as well as the commercial boxes. Worth baring in mind.

--
Regards, Shane
"A closed mouth gathers no feet!"
Website: http://www.wonk.demon.co.uk/

These say that it will keep your wine fresh for 6 months.

http://www.clickabrew.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1056


Seems like a neat idea.

That does look nice. Anyone actually used these and have some comments
about them? The site does not give any dimensions. Anyone have these? It
looks kind of large for a refrigerator unless you devote one to them.

Ray

"Rob M" > wrote in message
om...
> These say that it will keep your wine fresh for 6 months.
>
> http://www.clickabrew.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1056
>
>
> Seems like a neat idea.

That does look nice. Anyone actually used these and have some comments
about them? The site does not give any dimensions. Anyone have these? It
looks kind of large for a refrigerator unless you devote one to them.

Ray

"Rob M" > wrote in message
om...
> These say that it will keep your wine fresh for 6 months.
>
> http://www.clickabrew.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=1056
>
>
> Seems like a neat idea.