I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and gravity?
I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for final
clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
Bob

In article k.net>, "Bob" > wrote:
> I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
>there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and gravity?

That's what I do for most of my wines.

> I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
>fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
>clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for final
>clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)

Yep. And no matter how clear I think it is, in a year or so I always see a
little more sediment drop out in the bottles anyway.

"Yadda Yadda Yadda" > wrote in message
y.com...
> In article k.net>, "Bob"
> wrote:
> > I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else
out
> >there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
gravity?
>
> That's what I do for most of my wines.
>
> > I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> >fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> >clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
final
> >clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
>
> Yep. And no matter how clear I think it is, in a year or so I always see a
> little more sediment drop out in the bottles anyway.
Isn't it amazing!? All my bottles have fine line of sediment after a few
years...

That's my method!! Only I do not use sulphur since I do not brake the
CO2 seal until the wine is clear. I only use some sulphur on white
wines at bottling. Never had any problems with "yeast taste" of the
wine after some 2-3 months storage/clarifications on leaves. But it
may be because I keep the wines on bottles for more than 2 years
before consumption.

"Bob" > wrote in message thlink.net>...
> I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and gravity?
> I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for final
> clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> Bob

Yes, I always let wine made from grapes clear naturally. Time is never a
problem since I let the wine sit for at least 4 years before
drinking/bottling. The odd time I've made kit wines, I follow their
instructions and add whatever clarifying agent to it.

Al
"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
gravity?
> I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
final
> clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> Bob
>
>

"Alfonse" wrote in message ...
> <snip> since I let the wine sit for at least 4 years before
> drinking/bottling. <snip>

"At least" four years before bottling ? My hat is off to you, but I
wonder whether that isn't taking patience a bit far. :-) I shudder to
think how many carboys I'd need, to store everything that long . . .

Doug

Yes, I would say most of the folks who've made wine for many years let them
sit to clarify.

I have an exception in that I made a batch of Muscadine (I moved to GA from
NY so I need to convince the locals I've tried their own) that has been
sitting since Sep 2002 and it's murky as the day I racked to glass. I intend
to 1) clear by a fining agent (our local GA clay might stead for bentonite!)
or 2) dump it as it tastes like nothing I'd drink.

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
gravity?
> I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
final
> clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> Bob
>
>

oops, I meant 4 months! Not even I could wait that long :-)

Al

"Doug" > wrote in message
om...
> "Alfonse" wrote in message ...
> > <snip> since I let the wine sit for at least 4 years before
> > drinking/bottling. <snip>
>
> "At least" four years before bottling ? My hat is off to you, but I
> wonder whether that isn't taking patience a bit far. :-) I shudder to
> think how many carboys I'd need, to store everything that long . . .
>
> Doug

"K.J.Kristiansen" > wrote in message
om...
> That's my method!! Only I do not use sulphur since I do not brake the
> CO2 seal until the wine is clear. I only use some sulphur on white
> wines at bottling. Never had any problems with "yeast taste" of the
> wine after some 2-3 months storage/clarifications on leaves. But it
> may be because I keep the wines on bottles for more than 2 years
> before consumption.
HEE-HEE!!!! I =just= bottled my Blueberry 2000!!!
My Mom and my wife both died of cancer a couple years back and it just
killed any interest I had in doing anything.
Bob
> "Bob" > wrote in message
thlink.net>...
> > I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> > there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
gravity?
> > I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> > fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> > clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
final
> > clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> > Bob

In 25+ years of making wine this last year is the first I have ever used
fining agents. 5 wines I made had not cleared in a year and showed no signs
they were going to. So I force cleared them. They turned out fine but I
would not do it without giving them a chance.

Ray

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
gravity?
> I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
final
> clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> Bob
>
>

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
gravity?
> I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
final
> clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> Bob

Bob,

With the exception of a few white grape wines, I've never had to use a
fining agent to clear a wine. I do get a small amount of sediment in all of
my wines and meads after several months in the bottle, but I consider this
to be acceptable given that I do not filter. There are a few meads I've
made, notably a golden raisen melomel, which continued to throw lees even
when appearing to be clear (after a typical 9-12 months bulk aging period)
and would have probably benefitted from a fining regimen. This mead I
bottled after about two years of bulk aging and it still threw sediment in
the bottle, though it appeared to be crystal clear in the carboy.


--
Cheers,
Ken

Bob,
I typically don't use clarifying agents either, unless a wine really doesn't
clear. Usually my wines clear by racking when there is sediment, and
letting them sit. I've had wines take a year to clear, and yet the
zucchini/banana wine I started in late April cleared in less than a month.
As soon as my wine cellar gets big enough, I'm going to start to bulk age
longer before bottling. Just started my Oregano Wine a few days ago -
should be interesting.
Darlene
G'town, Wisconsin
USA

"Oberon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> > I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else
out
> > there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
> gravity?
> > I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> > fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> > clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
> final
> > clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> > Bob
>
> Bob,
>
> With the exception of a few white grape wines, I've never had to use a
> fining agent to clear a wine. I do get a small amount of sediment in all
of
> my wines and meads after several months in the bottle, but I consider this
> to be acceptable given that I do not filter. There are a few meads I've
> made, notably a golden raisen melomel, which continued to throw lees even
> when appearing to be clear (after a typical 9-12 months bulk aging period)
> and would have probably benefitted from a fining regimen. This mead I
> bottled after about two years of bulk aging and it still threw sediment in
> the bottle, though it appeared to be crystal clear in the carboy.
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Ken
>
>

"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
> Bob,
> I typically don't use clarifying agents either, unless a wine really
doesn't
> clear. Usually my wines clear by racking when there is sediment, and
> letting them sit. I've had wines take a year to clear, and yet the

> zucchini/banana wine
WHAT!!?? LOL!!!! NOW I have seen it all!
When I was a teen I was totally ignorant of how to make wine, and tried
to make some by leaving marijuana to soak in a jar for two months. My
girlfriend, every time I'd act like I actually knew anything, would always
remind me "Hey, you're the moron who tried to make wine out of marijuana!"
Bob LOL!!!

I started in late April cleared in less than a month.
> As soon as my wine cellar gets big enough, I'm going to start to bulk age
> longer before bottling. Just started my Oregano Wine a few days ago -
> should be interesting.
> Darlene
> G'town, Wisconsin
> USA
>
> "Oberon" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob" > wrote in message
> > hlink.net...
> > > I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else
> out
> > > there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
> > gravity?
> > > I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> > > fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> > > clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
> > final
> > > clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> > > Bob
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > With the exception of a few white grape wines, I've never had to use a
> > fining agent to clear a wine. I do get a small amount of sediment in
all
> of
> > my wines and meads after several months in the bottle, but I consider
this
> > to be acceptable given that I do not filter. There are a few meads
I've
> > made, notably a golden raisen melomel, which continued to throw lees
even
> > when appearing to be clear (after a typical 9-12 months bulk aging
period)
> > and would have probably benefitted from a fining regimen. This mead I
> > bottled after about two years of bulk aging and it still threw sediment
in
> > the bottle, though it appeared to be crystal clear in the carboy.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > Ken
> >
> >
>
>

You can, though.
"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...

> "Hey, you're the moron who tried to make wine out of marijuana!"
> Bob LOL!!!

"Adam Lang" > wrote in message
...
> You can, though.

HAH!!! I'll have to call her up and tell her so! She's a college
professor now so I owe her a good ZING! LOL!!

> "Bob" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
>
> > "Hey, you're the moron who tried to make wine out of marijuana!"
> > Bob LOL!!!

It's not different from any other plant. It breaks down. You just need to
add a sugar source for the yeast. The added benefit is THC is alcohol
soluble, so as the alcohol content grows, it will pull the THC out of the
cannibis and into the wine.

If I recall one of the things I read, the other benefit is that the stems
and such, that no one uses, are a good stock for it and usable. Seeds
apaprently are too oily and should not be included.

You have to treat it like any other plant you would try to make wine out of.
Add a sugar source for the yeast, add boiling water, put in a primary
fermenter. Rack into a secondary, etc.

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Adam Lang" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You can, though.
>
> HAH!!! I'll have to call her up and tell her so! She's a college
> professor now so I owe her a good ZING! LOL!!

"Adam Lang" > wrote in message
...
> It's not different from any other plant. It breaks down. You just need
to
> add a sugar source for the yeast. The added benefit is THC is alcohol
> soluble, so as the alcohol content grows, it will pull the THC out of the
> cannibis and into the wine.
>
> If I recall one of the things I read, the other benefit is that the stems
> and such, that no one uses, are a good stock for it and usable. Seeds
> apaprently are too oily and should not be included.
>
> You have to treat it like any other plant you would try to make wine out
of.
> Add a sugar source for the yeast, add boiling water, put in a primary
> fermenter. Rack into a secondary, etc.

Haven't even seen the stuff since 1984!

> "Bob" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> >
> > "Adam Lang" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > You can, though.
> >
> > HAH!!! I'll have to call her up and tell her so! She's a college
> > professor now so I owe her a good ZING! LOL!!
>
>

Haha, not saying you have. Was a purely scientific discussion. Also so you
don't feel as bad about actually attempting it.

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...

> Haven't even seen the stuff since 1984!

..
>
> You have to treat it like any other plant you would try to make wine out of.
> Add a sugar source for the yeast, add boiling water, put in a primary
> fermenter. Rack into a secondary, etc.
>

You don't mention adding any acid.

But I suppose that you'd want to be careful combining pot and acid.

clyde
Steelville, Missouri, USofA
http://www.vinic.com

> I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and gravity?
> I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for final
> clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> Bob

I understand your point Bob, and have actually produced commercial
wine recently that was neither fined nor filtered. It was a red that
had been aged for two years in oak barrels and was as clear as any
wine. Just had to see for myself.

But I feel compelled to mention that fining has other purposes beyond
clarification. Namely, the organoleptic qualities of the wine can be
greatly improved sometimes with proper, judicious finings. I've done
fining trials before on my reds, but have never seen any improvements
from the treatment.

Also, along these lines, it's a common misconception that filtration's
main function is clarification. When I filter, it's mainly to remove
microbial beasts: brilliant clarification is just a nice side effect.

If you've never tried these techniques of winemaking, then you could
not possibly know whether they have positive effects on your wine.
But if you're content with your current procedures, that's all that
really matters.

clyde
Steelville, Missouri, USofA
http://www.PeacefulBend.com
http://www.vinic.com

Just an afterthought. I do apply finings very very occasionally. But on the
whole all my wines, both kits and "fruit wines" are allowed to mature and
clear naturally. It is all a part of letting the developing wine find its
own route.I am quite firmly of the opinion that too much interference and
checking on "how it's going" is quite detrimental the wine when making
small quantities -- if you have a few hundred litres of must fermenting it
is much more able to fight off any potential enemies but when you have only
23 litres you must resist the temptation to keep checking.
Let the wine develop on it own and restrict your interference to a minimum
is my own way of doing it. It is hard when you are just beginning but it
really is the best way to go. Modern yeasts are very powerful in their
processes and don't need checking very much.

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire, England
Remove "PSANTISPAM" from my address line to reply.
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"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
> > I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> > there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
gravity?
> > I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple

Clyde Gill wrote:

>
> But I suppose that you'd want to be careful combining pot and acid.



Boooo.....Hisssss!

--


Mike MTM, Cokesbury, New Jersey, USA

"Oberon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> > I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else
out
> > there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
> gravity?
> > I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> > fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> > clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
> final
> > clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> > Bob
>
> Bob,
>
> With the exception of a few white grape wines, I've never had to use a
> fining agent to clear a wine. I do get a small amount of sediment in all
of
> my wines and meads after several months in the bottle, but I consider this
> to be acceptable given that I do not filter.

This comment has helped me as I have often felt this is a sign of failure.
Yet another thing I have learned from this group. Thanks




---
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"Thomas Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Oberon" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob" > wrote in message
> > hlink.net...
> > > I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else
> out
> > > there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
> > gravity?
> > > I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> > > fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> > > clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
> > final
> > > clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> > > Bob
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > With the exception of a few white grape wines, I've never had to use a
> > fining agent to clear a wine. I do get a small amount of sediment in
all
> of
> > my wines and meads after several months in the bottle, but I consider
this
> > to be acceptable given that I do not filter.
>
> This comment has helped me as I have often felt this is a sign of failure.
> Yet another thing I have learned from this group. Thanks
Something I've begun doing recently is to =bump= my carboys gently as
the wine settles. It seems to cut down on the amount of yeast clinging to
the sides of the glass carboy and makes it settle better, end result is
clearer.

I give my carboys a sharp twist (1/4 turn) several times while clearing.
This will set a bit of current going that will strip stuff off the sides
that might cling to it, so that it can fall to the bottom.

Ray

"Bob" > wrote in message
hlink.net...

> Something I've begun doing recently is to =bump= my carboys gently as
> the wine settles. It seems to cut down on the amount of yeast clinging to
> the sides of the glass carboy and makes it settle better, end result is
> clearer.
>
>

Clyde, you have made these points before. Most of what I have read about
making wine at home has talked about the probability of striping things out
of the wine when you fine or filter -- as if it was something to do as a
last resort. You have really got me thinking. Do you have any suggestions
on fining programs that might positively effect the wine in ways other than
clearing it? In other words, specific benefits for different types of
fining agents?

Ray

"Clyde Gill" > wrote in message
om...
> > I know a lot of people use clarifying agents; is there anyone else out
> > there who lets it all clear just by the simple passage of time and
gravity?
> > I do my ferment, add campden tablets after a couple months to stop
> > fermentation as much as possible, watch it settle to near-crystalline
> > clarity, then rack into another carboy, add preservative and wait for
final
> > clarification. It can take a very long time....... ;-)
> > Bob
>
> I understand your point Bob, and have actually produced commercial
> wine recently that was neither fined nor filtered. It was a red that
> had been aged for two years in oak barrels and was as clear as any
> wine. Just had to see for myself.
>
> But I feel compelled to mention that fining has other purposes beyond
> clarification. Namely, the organoleptic qualities of the wine can be
> greatly improved sometimes with proper, judicious finings. I've done
> fining trials before on my reds, but have never seen any improvements
> from the treatment.
>
> Also, along these lines, it's a common misconception that filtration's
> main function is clarification. When I filter, it's mainly to remove
> microbial beasts: brilliant clarification is just a nice side effect.
>
> If you've never tried these techniques of winemaking, then you could
> not possibly know whether they have positive effects on your wine.
> But if you're content with your current procedures, that's all that
> really matters.
>
> clyde
> Steelville, Missouri, USofA
> http://www.PeacefulBend.com
> http://www.vinic.com
>

> Clyde, you have made these points before. Most of what I have read about
> making wine at home has talked about the probability of striping things out
> of the wine when you fine or filter -- as if it was something to do as a
> last resort. You have really got me thinking. Do you have any suggestions
> on fining programs that might positively effect the wine in ways other than
> clearing it? In other words, specific benefits for different types of
> fining agents?
>
> Ray


Here's a good place to start Ray:

http://vinquiry.com/pdf/trialfiningsQ.pdf

http://vinquiry.com/pdf/FINING.pdf

http://vinquiry.com/pdf/coppertrialsQ.pdf

Personally, I've been able to do most of my fining in the juice stage,
and it's typically 100 bloom gelatin with a silica gel counter fining.
Juice fining is considerbly better for the wine, having much less
effect on the finished positive organoleptic qualities of the wine.
Rates on the order of ~1 gram per gallon of gelatin for free run, and
up to 4 grams per gallon on the press fraction are my typical regimen.

Those levels would wipe out a finished wine. Occasionally I will
polish fine a wine at levels as *high* as 0.05 grams per gallon, but
that's getting to be a rare occasion.

Silica gel is used in proportion to the gelatin from 0.3 mls per
gallon up to 1 ml per gallon. These are high figures for what's
recommended, but I like the results. It's relatively benign to the
wines character and mainly pulls out the gelatin. I have reason to
believe it's doing some other positive things but have nothing but
notion to support that.

Sometimes a wine, like Traminette that's been cold soaked, will end up
with some nagging bitter notes. Levels of gelatin that will remove
this seem to damage the wine, so I'll use PVPP instead, which seems to
act rather benign to the other wine qualities at recommended levels.

One other agent I'm fond of (at least it's results; it's a bear to
work with) is potassium casienate (some people use powder milk as a
substitute). It works rather well at toning down over oaked whites
without touching the fruit components.

I find doing lab trials to be one of the most challenging parts of
winemaking, but am highly convinced that it can do a wine serious
justice. Too many people on the outskirts of the industry are ready
to make accusations that commercial winemaking techniques are only
designed to get the wine to market. Though there are some wineries
that have that mindset (usually mega monsters), I think you'd find
that the majority have a much greater passion for their work and their
wines than to sacrafice quality over productivity.

Trevor made a comment earlier in this thread about not messing too
much with the wine. I very much believe in this too, and as I develop
my skills and technique for this particular winery, I get much better
at doing very specific steps to get the wine to the bottle. That's
not to the shelf mind you; I have a handful of reasons to get wine
bottled timely that may not apply to other wineries or winemakers.
But anyway, once fermentation is done, I do a racking within about 10
days, then the wine sits for a couple of months, then it gets fined,
then cold stablized, then filtered and most styles that I make are
then ready to bottle. This of course is the procedure for my "white"
wines. I rarely if ever fine my reds.

> >
> > clyde
> > Steelville, Missouri, USofA
> > http://www.PeacefulBend.com
> > http://www.vinic.com
> >