I'm sorry for posting at a wine group, but I figured this group would be
more knowledgable about alteration and clarification than others. I came
across a site about something called the "Grey Kangeroo," and it claims
to be able to make cheaper spirits (including low brands of vodka and
whiskey) more palatable while maintaining the same amount of alcohol.
Does anyone know if this is possible, and what type of filtration
equipment would be needed to "clarify" the impurities in cheap spirits
as the product promises?

Ok, I looked around there website (http://graykangaroo.com) and I do not
like what I see. First off they clam that they have a patent pending, well
I looked for it on USPTO.gov and could not find their names, Esposito or
Radysh, nor anything that is an alcohol filter. The search was for apps not
patents granted. Next they very vaguely explain how it works. The way I
figure it works is like a carbon or zeolite filter not a membrane (like a
coffee filter or a riverce osmosis filter). Reason being that it works
better the more times you filter the mixture through it. So now we are left
with a filter that acts like a sponge. One slight problem, when you are
working with a solution that is about 60% water and 40% alcohol you can
dissolve both polar/ionic and nonpolar compounds into it to a certian
degree. Since they claim that their system reduces the presence of
congeners and that they state that if the liquid is artificially coloured
the system will remove the compounds I would have to say that the system
removes non-polar compounds quite well. ASIDE: [have you ever had ouzo, the
correct way that is, by adding water to it in a 1:1 ratio? you get a cloudy
mixture, just like when you add pinesol to water. What is happening is that
all of the, essential, oils (non-polar) are comming out of suspension,
which shows that 40% is a good non-polar solvent.] This would be in line
with the type of filter they claim they are using.

All in all, I think it could work, it would work out on paper. My personal
bet is that it is just a basic carbon filter. If you feel like it, try
making your own by using a food grade carbon filter and filtering vodka a
few times through it. I would caution you that brittas may not be alcohol
friendly and so you may be better off opening one up and taking some of the
carbon(black)/zeolite(white) out of it and mixing it with the vodka in a
glass glass. Keep stirring for a minute or two then strain though a coffee
filter and try. Worse comes to worse you loose the price of a britta filter
and the vodka.

Just to let you know, the britta idea is just that an idea, I don't drink
vodka and would have little use for this system. The principals are sound
(to my knowledge) and it should work, to a point.

Anyone else have an opinion/thought?

If you try it and it works, or not, please let me know.

Rob

A B wrote:

> I'm sorry for posting at a wine group, but I figured this group would be
> more knowledgable about alteration and clarification than others. I came
> across a site about something called the "Grey Kangeroo," and it claims
> to be able to make cheaper spirits (including low brands of vodka and
> whiskey) more palatable while maintaining the same amount of alcohol.
> Does anyone know if this is possible, and what type of filtration
> equipment would be needed to "clarify" the impurities in cheap spirits
> as the product promises?

Thanks, Rob. You seem to know the chemistry of this. I'm not a vodka
fan, either, but I was considering it for whiskey (nothing expensive).

I've discovered many professional chemistry paper filters on the net. Do
you know if they would do the trick? Some of them claim to be able to
clarify wine/beer (Watson Grade 1), but I've yet to find anything
mentioning congeners in spirits.

Please tell me if you believe I filtered congeners or it was something else:
One hot day I poured whiskey through fresh crushed ice in a metal
strainer, assuming it would simply make it cooler. I repeated this, and
I noticed the liquid was cloudy, but it tasted smoother (don’t know if
it was just because of the temp change). I then smelled and sampled the
ice and I noticed it had a strange odor and taste! Is it possible for
ice to filter congeners naturally?



Rob A wrote:
> Ok, I looked around there website (http://graykangaroo.com) and I do not
> like what I see. First off they clam that they have a patent pending, well
> I looked for it on USPTO.gov and could not find their names, Esposito or
> Radysh, nor anything that is an alcohol filter. The search was for apps not
> patents granted. Next they very vaguely explain how it works. The way I
> figure it works is like a carbon or zeolite filter not a membrane (like a
> coffee filter or a riverce osmosis filter). Reason being that it works
> better the more times you filter the mixture through it. So now we are left
> with a filter that acts like a sponge. One slight problem, when you are
> working with a solution that is about 60% water and 40% alcohol you can
> dissolve both polar/ionic and nonpolar compounds into it to a certian
> degree. Since they claim that their system reduces the presence of
> congeners and that they state that if the liquid is artificially coloured
> the system will remove the compounds I would have to say that the system
> removes non-polar compounds quite well. ASIDE: [have you ever had ouzo, the
> correct way that is, by adding water to it in a 1:1 ratio? you get a cloudy
> mixture, just like when you add pinesol to water. What is happening is that
> all of the, essential, oils (non-polar) are comming out of suspension,
> which shows that 40% is a good non-polar solvent.] This would be in line
> with the type of filter they claim they are using.
>
> All in all, I think it could work, it would work out on paper. My personal
> bet is that it is just a basic carbon filter. If you feel like it, try
> making your own by using a food grade carbon filter and filtering vodka a
> few times through it. I would caution you that brittas may not be alcohol
> friendly and so you may be better off opening one up and taking some of the
> carbon(black)/zeolite(white) out of it and mixing it with the vodka in a
> glass glass. Keep stirring for a minute or two then strain though a coffee
> filter and try. Worse comes to worse you loose the price of a britta filter
> and the vodka.
>
> Just to let you know, the britta idea is just that an idea, I don't drink
> vodka and would have little use for this system. The principals are sound
> (to my knowledge) and it should work, to a point.
>
> Anyone else have an opinion/thought?
>
> If you try it and it works, or not, please let me know.
>
> Rob
>
> A B wrote:
>
>
>>I'm sorry for posting at a wine group, but I figured this group would be
>>more knowledgable about alteration and clarification than others. I came
>>across a site about something called the "Grey Kangeroo," and it claims
>>to be able to make cheaper spirits (including low brands of vodka and
>>whiskey) more palatable while maintaining the same amount of alcohol.
>>Does anyone know if this is possible, and what type of filtration
>>equipment would be needed to "clarify" the impurities in cheap spirits
>>as the product promises?
>
>
>

> Thanks, Rob. You seem to know the chemistry of this. I'm not a vodka
> fan, either, but I was considering it for whiskey (nothing expensive).

Thank you for the comploment. I'm a BioMed student, close enough!


> I've discovered many professional chemistry paper filters on the net. Do
> you know if they would do the trick? Some of them claim to be able to
> clarify wine/beer (Watson Grade 1), but I've yet to find anything
> mentioning congeners in spirits.

Congeners are just toxic byproducts of fermentation/metabolizm that
supposedly give bad taste and hangovers, where reality and fantasy begin
and end are kind of blurred.

Had to look up what type of paper you are taking about and I can't find it.
I'm assuming that it was untreated filter paper. Basically all it will do
is remove particulates, if you do not see any sedamit it will do very
little. I believe that you can buy filter paper (or is it sponges/flosses)
coated in carbon/charcoal that would work like the britta idea.

> Please tell me if you believe I filtered congeners or it was something
> else: One hot day I poured whiskey through fresh crushed ice in a metal
> strainer, assuming it would simply make it cooler. I repeated this, and
> I noticed the liquid was cloudy, but it tasted smoother (don?t know if
> it was just because of the temp change). I then smelled and sampled the
> ice and I noticed it had a strange odor and taste! Is it possible for
> ice to filter congeners naturally?


I think that this may go back to the Pinesol/ouzo scenario, by adding water
to the whiskey, you did two things. One, you lowered the concentraion of
alcohol thereby making the nonpolar compounds (the congeners and other
things) to become less soluble and some may have dropped out of suspension.
This is what created that white/cloudy precip. Secondly, by chilling the
whiskey with the ice, you further reduced the solubility forcing more of
the compounds out of solution. I think you may have a nice alternative to
using carbon or the like, if you don't mind that your whiskey watered down,
a bit at least. What I would suggest is that you play around a bit; make
sure that you have a note pad and pen at your side so that you can jot down
notes so when you get a good batch/sample you can repeat it. Note that you
may have to do this for each brand that you try to filter.

Make an ice bath (bowl with water and some ice) take two shot glasses or
something of the like and fill one with water and the other with the
whiskey(measure the amount, say 15ml each), not to the top.

Put both into the ice bath and chill for a minute or two.

Take a straw/eye dropper/or the like and add a few drops of the water to the
whiskey and stir.

repeat until a cloudy precp appears the maybe add one more drop of water.

Wait a few extra seconds to make sure it is nice and cold then filter out
the "junk", standard coffee filter paper should work, if not you will
probably have to let it settle down to the bottom of the glass.

now measure how much water you have left and then subtract it from your
starting amount and you can now work out the ratio that you need to mix.
Note do not try to work it out by calculating the whiskey mixture as water
and alcohol do not mix evenly. IE if you mix 50ml water and 50ml of alcohol
you would think you should have 100ml right? Wrong, you would have
somewhere in the neighborhood of 92ml since the water molecules can pack
into the spaces between the alcohol molecules.

Now the real test, try it. If it is good then you have (hopefully) a more
refined whiskey. If not you may have wasted a 1/2 shot of it, hey it still
is technicly drinkable! You could also try freeze filtering the whiskey if
it is a little too weak. Just toss it into the freezer for an hour or so,
for a bottle give it a day or two. then take a tea strainer and put it into
the freezer for a few minutes to cool it down. then just strain out some of
the ice crystals that will form, they should be close to pure water. Note
that if your freezer is not that cold the you may not develop ice crystals.

Well hope this helps, drop a line if you like,

Rob

>
> Rob A wrote:
>> Ok, I looked around there website (http://graykangaroo.com) and I do not
>> like what I see. First off they clam that they have a patent pending,
>> well I looked for it on USPTO.gov and could not find their names,
>> Esposito or Radysh, nor anything that is an alcohol filter. The search
>> was for apps not patents granted. Next they very vaguely explain how it
>> works. The way I figure it works is like a carbon or zeolite filter not a
>> membrane (like a coffee filter or a riverce osmosis filter). Reason being
>> that it works better the more times you filter the mixture through it. So
>> now we are left with a filter that acts like a sponge. One slight
>> problem, when you are working with a solution that is about 60% water and
>> 40% alcohol you can dissolve both polar/ionic and nonpolar compounds into
>> it to a certian degree. Since they claim that their system reduces the
>> presence of congeners and that they state that if the liquid is
>> artificially coloured the system will remove the compounds I would have
>> to say that the system removes non-polar compounds quite well. ASIDE:
>> [have you ever had ouzo, the correct way that is, by adding water to it
>> in a 1:1 ratio? you get a cloudy mixture, just like when you add pinesol
>> to water. What is happening is that all of the, essential, oils
>> (non-polar) are comming out of suspension, which shows that 40% is a good
>> non-polar solvent.] This would be in line with the type of filter they
>> claim they are using.
>>
>> All in all, I think it could work, it would work out on paper. My
>> personal bet is that it is just a basic carbon filter. If you feel like
>> it, try making your own by using a food grade carbon filter and filtering
>> vodka a few times through it. I would caution you that brittas may not be
>> alcohol friendly and so you may be better off opening one up and taking
>> some of the carbon(black)/zeolite(white) out of it and mixing it with the
>> vodka in a glass glass. Keep stirring for a minute or two then strain
>> though a coffee filter and try. Worse comes to worse you loose the price
>> of a britta filter and the vodka.
>>
>> Just to let you know, the britta idea is just that an idea, I don't drink
>> vodka and would have little use for this system. The principals are sound
>> (to my knowledge) and it should work, to a point.
>>
>> Anyone else have an opinion/thought?
>>
>> If you try it and it works, or not, please let me know.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> A B wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm sorry for posting at a wine group, but I figured this group would be
>>>more knowledgable about alteration and clarification than others. I came
>>>across a site about something called the "Grey Kangeroo," and it claims
>>>to be able to make cheaper spirits (including low brands of vodka and
>>>whiskey) more palatable while maintaining the same amount of alcohol.
>>>Does anyone know if this is possible, and what type of filtration
>>>equipment would be needed to "clarify" the impurities in cheap spirits
>>>as the product promises?
>>
>>
>>

Redistillation seems more attractive to me. Dilute the vodka to some
20 vol% with water, put it in a and redistillate in a single pot (no
column) distillation by boiling down to half the volume. You will have
recovered all your alcohol in a 40% distillate.

A B > wrote in message >...
> Thanks, Rob. You seem to know the chemistry of this. I'm not a vodka
> fan, either, but I was considering it for whiskey (nothing expensive).
>
> I've discovered many professional chemistry paper filters on the net. Do
> you know if they would do the trick? Some of them claim to be able to
> clarify wine/beer (Watson Grade 1), but I've yet to find anything
> mentioning congeners in spirits.
>
> Please tell me if you believe I filtered congeners or it was something else:
> One hot day I poured whiskey through fresh crushed ice in a metal
> strainer, assuming it would simply make it cooler. I repeated this, and
> I noticed the liquid was cloudy, but it tasted smoother (don’t know if
> it was just because of the temp change). I then smelled and sampled the
> ice and I noticed it had a strange odor and taste! Is it possible for
> ice to filter congeners naturally?
>
>
>
> Rob A wrote:
> > Ok, I looked around there website (http://graykangaroo.com) and I do not
> > like what I see. First off they clam that they have a patent pending, well
> > I looked for it on USPTO.gov and could not find their names, Esposito or
> > Radysh, nor anything that is an alcohol filter. The search was for apps not
> > patents granted. Next they very vaguely explain how it works. The way I
> > figure it works is like a carbon or zeolite filter not a membrane (like a
> > coffee filter or a riverce osmosis filter). Reason being that it works
> > better the more times you filter the mixture through it. So now we are left
> > with a filter that acts like a sponge. One slight problem, when you are
> > working with a solution that is about 60% water and 40% alcohol you can
> > dissolve both polar/ionic and nonpolar compounds into it to a certian
> > degree. Since they claim that their system reduces the presence of
> > congeners and that they state that if the liquid is artificially coloured
> > the system will remove the compounds I would have to say that the system
> > removes non-polar compounds quite well. ASIDE: [have you ever had ouzo, the
> > correct way that is, by adding water to it in a 1:1 ratio? you get a cloudy
> > mixture, just like when you add pinesol to water. What is happening is that
> > all of the, essential, oils (non-polar) are comming out of suspension,
> > which shows that 40% is a good non-polar solvent.] This would be in line
> > with the type of filter they claim they are using.
> >
> > All in all, I think it could work, it would work out on paper. My personal
> > bet is that it is just a basic carbon filter. If you feel like it, try
> > making your own by using a food grade carbon filter and filtering vodka a
> > few times through it. I would caution you that brittas may not be alcohol
> > friendly and so you may be better off opening one up and taking some of the
> > carbon(black)/zeolite(white) out of it and mixing it with the vodka in a
> > glass glass. Keep stirring for a minute or two then strain though a coffee
> > filter and try. Worse comes to worse you loose the price of a britta filter
> > and the vodka.
> >
> > Just to let you know, the britta idea is just that an idea, I don't drink
> > vodka and would have little use for this system. The principals are sound
> > (to my knowledge) and it should work, to a point.
> >
> > Anyone else have an opinion/thought?
> >
> > If you try it and it works, or not, please let me know.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > A B wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I'm sorry for posting at a wine group, but I figured this group would be
> >>more knowledgable about alteration and clarification than others. I came
> >>across a site about something called the "Grey Kangeroo," and it claims
> >>to be able to make cheaper spirits (including low brands of vodka and
> >>whiskey) more palatable while maintaining the same amount of alcohol.
> >>Does anyone know if this is possible, and what type of filtration
> >>equipment would be needed to "clarify" the impurities in cheap spirits
> >>as the product promises?
> >
> >
> >

K.J.Kristiansen wrote:

> Redistillation seems more attractive to me. Dilute the vodka to some
> 20 vol% with water, put it in a and redistillate in a single pot (no
> column) distillation by boiling down to half the volume. You will have
> recovered all your alcohol in a 40% distillate.

I agree with you, only there is only a few problems. In most of the world
distilling is still illegal. You may also strip out more of the flavors in
the whiskey. Here again we come to the idea of trying it out and
experiment. You should, through trial and error, be able to find the
correct angle to have the output tube to get a satisfactory product. It is
most definitely doable. Now you have two/three solutions for the same
problem.

Rob




> A B > wrote in message
> >...
>> Thanks, Rob. You seem to know the chemistry of this. I'm not a vodka
>> fan, either, but I was considering it for whiskey (nothing expensive).
>>
>> I've discovered many professional chemistry paper filters on the net. Do
>> you know if they would do the trick? Some of them claim to be able to
>> clarify wine/beer (Watson Grade 1), but I've yet to find anything
>> mentioning congeners in spirits.
>>
>> Please tell me if you believe I filtered congeners or it was something
>> else: One hot day I poured whiskey through fresh crushed ice in a metal
>> strainer, assuming it would simply make it cooler. I repeated this, and
>> I noticed the liquid was cloudy, but it tasted smoother (don?t know if
>> it was just because of the temp change). I then smelled and sampled the
>> ice and I noticed it had a strange odor and taste! Is it possible for
>> ice to filter congeners naturally?
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob A wrote:
>> > Ok, I looked around there website (http://graykangaroo.com) and I do
>> > not like what I see. First off they clam that they have a patent
>> > pending, well I looked for it on USPTO.gov and could not find their
>> > names, Esposito or Radysh, nor anything that is an alcohol filter. The
>> > search was for apps not patents granted. Next they very vaguely explain
>> > how it works. The way I figure it works is like a carbon or zeolite
>> > filter not a membrane (like a coffee filter or a riverce osmosis
>> > filter). Reason being that it works better the more times you filter
>> > the mixture through it. So now we are left with a filter that acts like
>> > a sponge. One slight problem, when you are working with a solution that
>> > is about 60% water and 40% alcohol you can dissolve both polar/ionic
>> > and nonpolar compounds into it to a certian degree. Since they claim
>> > that their system reduces the presence of congeners and that they state
>> > that if the liquid is artificially coloured the system will remove the
>> > compounds I would have to say that the system removes non-polar
>> > compounds quite well. ASIDE: [have you ever had ouzo, the correct way
>> > that is, by adding water to it in a 1:1 ratio? you get a cloudy
>> > mixture, just like when you add pinesol to water. What is happening is
>> > that all of the, essential, oils (non-polar) are comming out of
>> > suspension, which shows that 40% is a good non-polar solvent.] This
>> > would be in line with the type of filter they claim they are using.
>> >
>> > All in all, I think it could work, it would work out on paper. My
>> > personal bet is that it is just a basic carbon filter. If you feel like
>> > it, try making your own by using a food grade carbon filter and
>> > filtering vodka a few times through it. I would caution you that
>> > brittas may not be alcohol friendly and so you may be better off
>> > opening one up and taking some of the carbon(black)/zeolite(white) out
>> > of it and mixing it with the vodka in a glass glass. Keep stirring for
>> > a minute or two then strain though a coffee filter and try. Worse comes
>> > to worse you loose the price of a britta filter and the vodka.
>> >
>> > Just to let you know, the britta idea is just that an idea, I don't
>> > drink vodka and would have little use for this system. The principals
>> > are sound (to my knowledge) and it should work, to a point.
>> >
>> > Anyone else have an opinion/thought?
>> >
>> > If you try it and it works, or not, please let me know.
>> >
>> > Rob
>> >
>> > A B wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>I'm sorry for posting at a wine group, but I figured this group would
>> >>be more knowledgable about alteration and clarification than others. I
>> >>came across a site about something called the "Grey Kangeroo," and it
>> >>claims to be able to make cheaper spirits (including low brands of
>> >>vodka and whiskey) more palatable while maintaining the same amount of
>> >>alcohol. Does anyone know if this is possible, and what type of
>> >>filtration equipment would be needed to "clarify" the impurities in
>> >>cheap spirits as the product promises?
>> >
>> >
>> >