They do take a while. But, in the 4th year you should be able to have a full
harvest. In France the Chteau-wines usually have their first harvest in the
5th year. Rejoice! This is going to be your year! Maréchal Foch ripens in
Holland in the third week of september till the second week of october
(depends on the weather), gives a purple-red Burgundy-style wine, or if you
leave the pulp in until fermentation is done, a deep dark purplered, rich in
tannine. Very good wine, after maturation wich will take a few years! You
should NOT be drinking your 2003 yet!!!!
Be patient; you will be rewarded.
Ed
> schreef in bericht
...
> I am growing Marchel Foch in the Annapolis Valley in Nova
> Scotia Canada. I put my vines in 5 years ago and have taken two full
> harvests. The wine has been disappointing. I understand that vines
> usually take a while before they start producing a good quality grape.
>
> My question. How long does it take before vines start putting
> out good grape?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>

wrote:

> I am growing Marchel Foch in the Annapolis Valley in Nova
> Scotia Canada. I put my vines in 5 years ago and have taken two full
> harvests. The wine has been disappointing. I understand that vines
> usually take a while before they start producing a good quality grape.
>
> My question. How long does it take before vines start putting
> out good grape?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike

Mike, have you tried any Marchel Foch grown from other vineyards in the
area? The reason I ask is because maybe it is the variety you do not like
and not the fault of your vines. I have only tasted the variety a couple
times and I did not like it at all but I know this was not enough sampling
to condemn the entire variety. There may be some who make excellent wine
from this grape. It could also be a lack of aging as Ed maintains. I know
that I am not at all crazy about Chambourcin when it is young but after
about four years it really improves a lot - at least to my taste buds.

> wrote in message
...
> I am growing Marchel Foch in the Annapolis Valley in Nova
> Scotia Canada. I put my vines in 5 years ago and have taken two full
> harvests. The wine has been disappointing. I understand that vines
> usually take a while before they start producing a good quality grape.
>
> My question. How long does it take before vines start putting
> out good grape?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
Mike,

How are you fermenting the grapes? I have made Foch twice with ok results.
Then I tasted some made using carbonic maceration (CM). After tasting that,
it is the only way I will try to make Foch in the future. That is if I come
across the grape being available again. Lost my local source here in
Indiana. The nose to a CM Foch is most excellent. The only rap I have read
against CM is that the shelf life is not as long as a typical ferment. From
my taste buds, the trade off is well worth it. If you can, try to find some
made CM style, you will not believe the difference

Lee

On Fri, 21 May 2004 12:00:11 GMT, wrote:

> I am growing Marchel Foch in the Annapolis Valley in Nova
>Scotia Canada. I put my vines in 5 years ago and have taken two full
>harvests. The wine has been disappointing. I understand that vines
>usually take a while before they start producing a good quality grape.
>
> My question. How long does it take before vines start putting
>out good grape?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike

I read in "Northern Winework" that there are many ways to make
Marechal Foch. The authors reference Philippe Coquard at Wollersheim
Winery in Wisconsin. He is said to make three different types based on
the ripeness:

A rose at 19 brix, ph 2.9 and TA 1.5%

A nouveu style at 21 brix, pH 3.1 and TA 1.3% (using semi-carbonic
masceration)

Ageable table wine harvested at 23 brix, pH 3.3, TA 1.0%.

Perhaps you could find reference information from him.
Art Schubert
Traverse City, Michigan

When first pressed I find the juice wonderfully complex. The
finished product after 2-3 years is weak with poor flavour.

When young it is quite acidic so I am considering CM, but don't
have much experience with it. My understanding is that the wine is
left at minus 3-4 C for several days to let the tartaric acid crystals
form, and the wine is drawn off, leaving these acids behind. Is this
correct?

Boatman

On Sat, 22 May 2004 15:56:13 GMT, "LeeW" >
wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> I am growing Marchel Foch in the Annapolis Valley in Nova
>> Scotia Canada. I put my vines in 5 years ago and have taken two full
>> harvests. The wine has been disappointing. I understand that vines
>> usually take a while before they start producing a good quality grape.
>>
>> My question. How long does it take before vines start putting
>> out good grape?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>Mike,
>
>How are you fermenting the grapes? I have made Foch twice with ok results.
>Then I tasted some made using carbonic maceration (CM). After tasting that,
>it is the only way I will try to make Foch in the future. That is if I come
>across the grape being available again. Lost my local source here in
>Indiana. The nose to a CM Foch is most excellent. The only rap I have read
>against CM is that the shelf life is not as long as a typical ferment. From
>my taste buds, the trade off is well worth it. If you can, try to find some
>made CM style, you will not believe the difference
>
>Lee
>
>

Mike,

My associate winemakers who do CM do it at cellar temp. They just seal up
the container the ferment is done in as well as possible. 90 percent of the
ferment is done in complete bunches of grapes. The grapes are then pressed
after the ferment is complete. The CM is "supposed" to reduce acid via the
process itself. In the midwest, high acid with hybrids is a definite
problem. What I have tasted has been very good in terms of aroma and
balance.

Some makers in the group use 7 gal buckets with the snap on lids to keep the
ferment sealed. They put the whole bunches in with hydrated yeast poured
over the bunches and let it go. No, it doesn't blow the lid off either. I
tried it with the bucket once and tied the lid down for security. Did the
ferment at cellar temp.

There are probably people with more experience in the group who may have
input.

Good Luck,
Lee
> wrote in message
...
>
>
> When first pressed I find the juice wonderfully complex. The
> finished product after 2-3 years is weak with poor flavour.
>
> When young it is quite acidic so I am considering CM, but don't
> have much experience with it. My understanding is that the wine is
> left at minus 3-4 C for several days to let the tartaric acid crystals
> form, and the wine is drawn off, leaving these acids behind. Is this
> correct?
>
> Boatman
>
> On Sat, 22 May 2004 15:56:13 GMT, "LeeW" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I am growing Marchel Foch in the Annapolis Valley in Nova
> >> Scotia Canada. I put my vines in 5 years ago and have taken two full
> >> harvests. The wine has been disappointing. I understand that vines
> >> usually take a while before they start producing a good quality grape.
> >>
> >> My question. How long does it take before vines start putting
> >> out good grape?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >Mike,
> >
> >How are you fermenting the grapes? I have made Foch twice with ok
results.
> >Then I tasted some made using carbonic maceration (CM). After tasting
that,
> >it is the only way I will try to make Foch in the future. That is if I
come
> >across the grape being available again. Lost my local source here in
> >Indiana. The nose to a CM Foch is most excellent. The only rap I have
read
> >against CM is that the shelf life is not as long as a typical ferment.
From
> >my taste buds, the trade off is well worth it. If you can, try to find
some
> >made CM style, you will not believe the difference
> >
> >Lee
> >
> >
>

Lee,

Thanks, I will give it a try.

Did your fellow say how long to let it sit, or how to tell when
the process was complete? A conventional primary ferment for me is
about 6-9 days at 65-75 F. What is their cellar temp?

B.

On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:59:34 GMT, "LeeW" >
wrote:

>Mike,
>
>My associate winemakers who do CM do it at cellar temp. They just seal up
>the container the ferment is done in as well as possible. 90 percent of the
>ferment is done in complete bunches of grapes. The grapes are then pressed
>after the ferment is complete. The CM is "supposed" to reduce acid via the
>process itself. In the midwest, high acid with hybrids is a definite
>problem. What I have tasted has been very good in terms of aroma and
>balance.
>
>Some makers in the group use 7 gal buckets with the snap on lids to keep the
>ferment sealed. They put the whole bunches in with hydrated yeast poured
>over the bunches and let it go. No, it doesn't blow the lid off either. I
>tried it with the bucket once and tied the lid down for security. Did the
>ferment at cellar temp.
>
>There are probably people with more experience in the group who may have
>input.
>
>Good Luck,
>Lee
> wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>> When first pressed I find the juice wonderfully complex. The
>> finished product after 2-3 years is weak with poor flavour.
>>
>> When young it is quite acidic so I am considering CM, but don't
>> have much experience with it. My understanding is that the wine is
>> left at minus 3-4 C for several days to let the tartaric acid crystals
>> form, and the wine is drawn off, leaving these acids behind. Is this
>> correct?
>>
>> Boatman
>>
>> On Sat, 22 May 2004 15:56:13 GMT, "LeeW" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> I am growing Marchel Foch in the Annapolis Valley in Nova
>> >> Scotia Canada. I put my vines in 5 years ago and have taken two full
>> >> harvests. The wine has been disappointing. I understand that vines
>> >> usually take a while before they start producing a good quality grape.
>> >>
>> >> My question. How long does it take before vines start putting
>> >> out good grape?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >Mike,
>> >
>> >How are you fermenting the grapes? I have made Foch twice with ok
>results.
>> >Then I tasted some made using carbonic maceration (CM). After tasting
>that,
>> >it is the only way I will try to make Foch in the future. That is if I
>come
>> >across the grape being available again. Lost my local source here in
>> >Indiana. The nose to a CM Foch is most excellent. The only rap I have
>read
>> >against CM is that the shelf life is not as long as a typical ferment.
>From
>> >my taste buds, the trade off is well worth it. If you can, try to find
>some
>> >made CM style, you will not believe the difference
>> >
>> >Lee
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>