It's been posted here multiple times that kits shouldn't
be made with less water then recommended in the instructions.
For example, making a 23l kit with 19l of water. It's said
that the resulting wine will not be balanced.

However, I tasted more than one kit (almost always a red)
made with 23l of water that seemed "thin". I'm wondering if
anyone has actually tested a finished kit to see if it is
fully balanced.

Don

The kits are designed to have the right acidity among other things. If you
reduce the water, they will probably come out too acid, maybe too tannic,
and may have other problems. If they are thin, you might try boosting them
with some bananas which can add body or even some fruit juice. But it may
not come out the way you expect. (Maybe better than you expect.)

Ray

"Don S" > wrote in message
om...
> It's been posted here multiple times that kits shouldn't
> be made with less water then recommended in the instructions.
> For example, making a 23l kit with 19l of water. It's said
> that the resulting wine will not be balanced.
>
> However, I tasted more than one kit (almost always a red)
> made with 23l of water that seemed "thin". I'm wondering if
> anyone has actually tested a finished kit to see if it is
> fully balanced.
>
> Don

(Don S) wrote in message . com>...
> It's been posted here multiple times that kits shouldn't
> be made with less water then recommended in the instructions.
> For example, making a 23l kit with 19l of water. It's said
> that the resulting wine will not be balanced.
>
> However, I tasted more than one kit (almost always a red)
> made with 23l of water that seemed "thin". I'm wondering if
> anyone has actually tested a finished kit to see if it is
> fully balanced.
>
> Don

After reading much about reducing the total volume of water to the set
kit here on this newsgroup, I bought 3 different BrewKing Chilean
Merlot kit in Dec –03 for the purpose to see if there was any truth to
it all.

I used Lavlin Bourgovin RC 212 yeast on all batches. One I did as
told, all without the clay and other adjuncts of course. The other two
I divided up to several 2.8gal batches. The first problem I run into
was that some of the batches that started high on the SG did not go
down to 00090. So I was left with a wine that was sweet. Which I later
turned to cooking port, but that is another story.

All I can say is maybe my choice of yeast was wrong.

The best of them all was one started at 1092, that went like this: 2nd
1074 (76), 3rd 1040 (78), 4th 1025 (79), 5th 1014 (81), 6th 0998 (80),
7th 0996 (80), 8th 0994 (78), 9th 0993 (78), 10th 0992 (77), 11th 0991
(75), 12-15th 0990 (75). It was bottled 6 month later and after being
washed trough a 5 gal heavy toasted American (Gibbs Bros) barrel (2nd
run) it came out the best of all 3 kits. Still a slight taste of that
"cooked" flavor. But I have since blended this wine by using it in
topping up various barrels of fresh merlot and in some cases even
drunk what was left over.

In the end I think one have to pay special attention to what kind of
yeast one is to use for these high starting SG so you can get the wine
down to full dryness. I wish there was a "complete guide" of this for
the various different yeasts.

SG Brix

> I used Lavlin Bourgovin RC 212 yeast on all batches. One I did as
> told, all without the clay and other adjuncts of course. The other two
> I divided up to several 2.8gal batches.

SG,
I didn't quite follow all of your test. Are you saying that
by breaking them down to 2.8 gal batches they were made up
with less than the recommended final volume ie. 23l?

Don

(Don S) wrote in message m>...
> > I used Lavlin Bourgovin RC 212 yeast on all batches. One I did as
> > told, all without the clay and other adjuncts of course. The other two
> > I divided up to several 2.8gal batches.
>
> SG,
> I didn't quite follow all of your test. Are you saying that---snip

I happen to have several small glass carboys 2.8g ea so I mixed all
the kits except one together in my primary fermentor and divided the
juice out into the various glass carboys for fermentation and set the
different starting SG by dilution.

I then used the original kit processed as per instructions to top
these up after racking.

Sorry for the confusion.

SG Brix

Where did you get these 2.8 gal carboys? I've been looking for something
just like that. Everyone sells 3+ gal ones.


"sgbrix" > wrote in message
om...
> I happen to have several small glass carboys 2.8g ea so I mixed all
> the kits except one together in my primary fermentor and divided the
> juice out into the various glass carboys for fermentation and set the
> different starting SG by dilution.
>
> I then used the original kit processed as per instructions to top
> these up after racking.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> SG Brix

In article >, "Ralph" > wrote:
>Where did you get these 2.8 gal carboys? I've been looking for something
>just like that. Everyone sells 3+ gal ones.
>
I bought mine several years ago. The proprietor of my local winemaking shop
says they are no longer available.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

"Ralph" > wrote in message >...
> Where did you get these 2.8 gal carboys? I've been looking for something
> just like that. Everyone sells 3+ gal ones.

I bought them from a bottle water company called High Mountain Valley
Water Co in Vermont eons ago. As you get older they get better

SG Brix

"Ralph" > wrote in message >...
> Where did you get these 2.8 gal carboys?

I bought one just a month or two ago from Midwest Supplies
(www.midwestsupplies.com). They didn't mention anything about them
being discontinued; I bought that size because they were temporarily
out of the 3-gallon size.

Doug

<snip>

>
> In the end I think one have to pay special attention to what kind of
> yeast one is to use for these high starting SG so you can get the wine
> down to full dryness. I wish there was a "complete guide" of this for
> the various different yeasts.
>
> SG Brix

The following is from a previous post that explains how to
determine this when planning each ferment. It is really quite
simple and once you learn to do this you should have no further
problems with sugar management. HTH

<copy>............................................ ..........................
.........

"Jeff Griffith" > wrote in message
...
> With regard to method #1:
>
> I've been reading in other postings that the yeast dies off when the
alcohol level
> reaches a certain point (about 12% or so?). If the juice starts out
naturally very sweet
> (no sweeteners added!), is it possible that the yeast will die without
fermenting all
> of the sugar to alcohol? Will other factors reduce the residual level
further?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff Griffith

When (or if) a ferment will "end" (die off) depends on which yeast
strain is used and how much sugar is in the must. It is really quite
simple to determine this when planning a ferment. First, go to:
http://winemakermag.com/referencegui...tstrainschart/
Print this if you can. Note the "Alcohol Tolerance" (AT) column.
This tells you how high each type of yeast can go.

Second, Get a decent (full range) Sugar/SG chart with a PA column.

Third, (example) Take an SG reading of the must. Look at the PA
column on the SG/Sugar chart for that reading.

Next, compare the PA to the AT of the yeast you have elected to
use. If the PA is *less* than the AT, you will end up with a dry wine
with alcohol equal to that PA. BUT - if the PA is *greater* than
the AT, the ferment will "end" (die off) with alcohol equal to the AT
and there will be "residual" sugar left in the wine. Just how much
sugar will remain can be determined by locating the AT *number*
in the PA column of the SG/Sugar chart. The *difference* between
this number and the PA of the must will tell you how much sugar will
remain.

Of course, there are a myriad of variables, but this method will give
you very good "working" estimates for planning your ferments. This
is especially important when doing "old fashioned" (residual sugar)
ferments because it allows you to balance residual sugar levels against
the somewhat elevated alcohol levels encountered when doing such
ferments. HTH

FWIW - If you are going to do "old" recipes, you will be best served
by selecting yeasts with ATs in the 13-14% range.

<end
copy>............................................. ..........................
........

(Don S) wrote in message . com>...
> It's been posted here multiple times that kits shouldn't
> be made with less water then recommended in the instructions.
> For example, making a 23l kit with 19l of water. It's said
> that the resulting wine will not be balanced.
>
> However, I tasted more than one kit (almost always a red)
> made with 23l of water that seemed "thin". I'm wondering if
> anyone has actually tested a finished kit to see if it is
> fully balanced.
>
> Don

After reading much about reducing the total volume of water to the set
kit here on this newsgroup, I bought 3 different BrewKing Chilean
Merlot kit in Dec –03 for the purpose to see if there was any truth to
it all.

I used Lavlin Bourgovin RC 212 yeast on all batches. One I did as
told, all without the clay and other adjuncts of course. The other two
I divided up to several 2.8gal batches. The first problem I run into
was that some of the batches that started high on the SG did not go
down to 00090. So I was left with a wine that was sweet. Which I later
turned to cooking port, but that is another story.

All I can say is maybe my choice of yeast was wrong.

The best of them all was one started at 1092, that went like this: 2nd
1074 (76), 3rd 1040 (78), 4th 1025 (79), 5th 1014 (81), 6th 0998 (80),
7th 0996 (80), 8th 0994 (78), 9th 0993 (78), 10th 0992 (77), 11th 0991
(75), 12-15th 0990 (75). It was bottled 6 month later and after being
washed trough a 5 gal heavy toasted American (Gibbs Bros) barrel (2nd
run) it came out the best of all 3 kits. Still a slight taste of that
"cooked" flavor. But I have since blended this wine by using it in
topping up various barrels of fresh merlot and in some cases even
drunk what was left over.

In the end I think one have to pay special attention to what kind of
yeast one is to use for these high starting SG so you can get the wine
down to full dryness. I wish there was a "complete guide" of this for
the various different yeasts.

SG Brix