Folks,

I've made a couple of wine kits and have done a number of batches of beer. In
making beer, i had good results with bulk aging.....albeit.....not terribly
long aging.....usually a matter of weeks until the product fell clear in the
carboy.

In reading notations in this group, i'm a bit.....confused. With wine.....is
there any down side with bulk aging. By bulk.....i mean only a five gallon
carboy. Or is it more helpful to move the product to bottles and age it. And
while i'm on the topic....at the risk of making some of the purists turn
absolutley white.....what is your take on using plastic bottles to store wine.
I"m usually drinking it within a matter of a couple of months. Beer, stored
that way.....seems to maintain decent taste and carbonation. So far, i've used
plastic bottles and screw on caps....and for a ' wine savage' like me.....i've
been satisfied.

TIA,

Tim

Cubanpole2 wrote:

i'm a bit.....confused. With wine.....is
> there any down side with bulk aging. By bulk.....i mean only a five gallon
> carboy.

> what is your take on using plastic bottles to store wine.
> I"m usually drinking it within a matter of a couple of months.


Tim,

Like many aspects of winemaking, the bulk/bottle aging question isn't
easily answered. Most people agree that bulk aging proceeds more slowly
than bottle aging, perhaps because of the resistance to temperature
swings in a larger mass. This can be beneficial if your storage
conditions are less than ideal, and you want to protect the wine, or it
can be detrimental if your storage is cooler and you want the wine to
age more quickly so you can enjoy it.

Another consideration is that wine often continues to degas or even
undergo MFL for a prolonged period, and this is certainly best dealt
with before bottling. Chalk this one up for bulk aging.

Still another consideration, as Lum recently pointed out, is that
certain reductive (anaerobic) changes need to occur for a wine to
develop its "bottle" bouquet. Not only is newly bottled in that
weak-tasting time called bottle shock, but you then have to start on
developing the bouquet. Consequently, some people hold that it's good to
bottle as soon as a wine is ready. Chalk this one up for bottle aging.

I guess it comes down to doing what works best for your given
circumstances and preferences. In my case, I like the idea of bottle
aging, but I seem to get better results if I patiently bulk age and then
patiently bottle age. I often split a batch and bottle some for more
immediate cunsumption and keep some in 1 or 3 or 5 gal carboys.

Nobody's gonna throw rocks at you for plastic bottles. If you use the
wine fairly soon, say, under 6 mos., keep it cool, use sulfite, etc, it
should be fine. I don't think PET (soda bottles) is exactly nonpermeable
to O2, but there is another plastic, whose name escapes me, which is. Do
a test and see how long you can keep a wine this way, and just be sure
to rotate your stock accordingly.

Sorry for the rambling post.

HTH, Mike MTM

MikeMTM > wrote in message >...
> Cubanpole2 wrote:
>
> i'm a bit.....confused. With wine.....is
> > there any down side with bulk aging. By bulk.....i mean only a five gallon
> > carboy.
>
> > what is your take on using plastic bottles to store wine.


> > I"m usually drinking it within a matter of a couple of months. Like many aspects of winemaking, the bulk/bottle aging question isn't
easily answered. Most people agree that bulk aging proceeds more
slowly
than bottle aging, perhaps because of the resistance to temperature

---snip

Lets just put it strait, if you bulk age in a 5 gal carboy, it will be
there whenever you decide to bottle. But if you bottle and try to
"age" the chances that it all will be there whenever, is soooo up to
you.

>Nobody's gonna throw rocks at you for plastic bottles.

---snip

Oh yes we are. I just whent through my local liquor store to buy some
hard liquor for making some liqueurs, and would you believe that every
darn bottle is now in plastic! I was thinking of using the bottles
itself for making the liqueurs in, and I be darn if I am going to
steep anything in plastic!

Look if you need real winebottles, just contact any local winery
around you and I'm sure they will sell you cases close to their
wholesale price. Just be friendly and show a keen interest in wine,
maybe even their wine.

And Mike, you did a good post, I didn't mean to tear it apart.

SG Brix

It depends a lot on the wine. Some wine (many whites and some reds) are
better drunk young. If a wine is over the hill at 2 years, it will be over
the hill whether it is in bottle or carboy. Bulk aging may just insure that
you do not drink any before it starts to decline. Not a good thing.

Bulk aging is good as it protects the wine from daily temperature
fluctuations and it give the wine a better chance to stabilize before it is
bottled. Nothing worse than bottling a clear wine and then finding that it
starts throwing additional sediment due to the chemical reactions during
aging. But a wine needs some time in bottle as well.

It boils down to a matter of style.

Ray

"Cubanpole2" > wrote in message
...
> Folks,
>
> I've made a couple of wine kits and have done a number of batches of beer.
In
> making beer, i had good results with bulk aging.....albeit.....not
terribly
> long aging.....usually a matter of weeks until the product fell clear in
the
> carboy.
>
> In reading notations in this group, i'm a bit.....confused. With
wine.....is
> there any down side with bulk aging. By bulk.....i mean only a five
gallon
> carboy. Or is it more helpful to move the product to bottles and age it.
And
> while i'm on the topic....at the risk of making some of the purists turn
> absolutley white.....what is your take on using plastic bottles to store
wine.
> I"m usually drinking it within a matter of a couple of months. Beer,
stored
> that way.....seems to maintain decent taste and carbonation. So far, i've
used
> plastic bottles and screw on caps....and for a ' wine savage' like
me.....i've
> been satisfied.
>
> TIA,
>
> Tim

sgbrix wrote:



>
> Look if you need real winebottles, just contact any local winery
> around you and I'm sure they will sell you cases close to their
> wholesale price. Just be friendly and show a keen interest in wine,
> maybe even their wine.
>
> And Mike, you did a good post, I didn't mean to tear it apart.
>
> SG Brix


Thanks. And there's no need to apologise.

Funny thing about wine bottles: Once your friends know you can use them,
the donations pour in. I had to call a halt recently, as I've
accumulated a store of 23 cases of cleaned bottles, sorted by style &
color. I plan on keeping the Bordeaux style & giving the Burgundy style
to a friend, since I don't like how they stack in my racks. <Sigh>...
such luxury from scrounging.

HTH, Mike MTM

Cubanpole2 > wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I've made a couple of wine kits and have done a number of batches of beer.
> In making beer, i had good results with bulk aging.....albeit.....not
> terribly long aging.....usually a matter of weeks until the product fell
> clear in the carboy.
>
> In reading notations in this group, i'm a bit.....confused. With
> wine.....is there any down side with bulk aging. By bulk.....i mean only
> a five gallon carboy. Or is it more helpful to move the product to
> bottles and age it. And while i'm on the topic....at the risk of making
> some of the purists turn absolutley white.....what is your take on using
> plastic bottles to store wine. I"m usually drinking it within a matter of
> a couple of months. Beer, stored that way.....seems to maintain decent
> taste and carbonation. So far, i've used plastic bottles and screw on
> caps....and for a ' wine savage' like me.....i've been satisfied.
>
> TIA,
>
> Tim

Tim,

When aging I usually start with bulk aging in 1 gal dimijohns. I dont
make wilne in larger quantitiies than 1 gal. This is for about 6 months
then in the bottle for up to another 6 months.

I have used plastic for bulk aging. It should be fairly dense plastic. I
used to use 1 and one 1/2 gal. plastic bottles that previously contained
a dishwashing liquid. These I prepared by rinsing out very well and
leaving them topped up with plain water for several days.

The plastic does breath a bit and this helps in the maturing of the
wine. A bit like cask aging without as many risks!

--
Regards, Shane
"A closed mouth gathers no feet!"
Website: http://www.wonk.demon.co.uk/

In article >,
MikeMTM > wrote:
>sgbrix wrote:

>Funny thing about wine bottles: Once your friends know you can use them,
>the donations pour in. I had to call a halt recently, as I've
>accumulated a store of 23 cases of cleaned bottles, sorted by style &
>color. I plan on keeping the Bordeaux style & giving the Burgundy style
>to a friend, since I don't like how they stack in my racks. <Sigh>...
>such luxury from scrounging.

Spring is here, and a local restraunteur I know was once again out
hosing his sidewalk as I bicycled by. Well, almost. At that point, I'm
out in traffic (and can keep up with it).

He's now saving bottles for me, to be picked up each tuesday.

How many cases do I really need to get going? I'm guessing ten at a
minimum, given that I need to make both short-term and long term wines.

And how fast does a small italian restaurant kick out bottles?

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \

I get about three cases a week from my guy . About half are KJ Cab , 1/4 KJ
Chard , and 1/4 Chianti .
Quick rinse with sulphite and upside down to dry .

Make sure you do not skip a pickup , when they pile up , THEY PILE UP!!!!
Greg
"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> MikeMTM > wrote:
> >sgbrix wrote:
>
> >Funny thing about wine bottles: Once your friends know you can use them,
> >the donations pour in. I had to call a halt recently, as I've
> >accumulated a store of 23 cases of cleaned bottles, sorted by style &
> >color. I plan on keeping the Bordeaux style & giving the Burgundy style
> >to a friend, since I don't like how they stack in my racks. <Sigh>...
> >such luxury from scrounging.
>
> Spring is here, and a local restraunteur I know was once again out
> hosing his sidewalk as I bicycled by. Well, almost. At that point, I'm
> out in traffic (and can keep up with it).
>
> He's now saving bottles for me, to be picked up each tuesday.
>
> How many cases do I really need to get going? I'm guessing ten at a
> minimum, given that I need to make both short-term and long term wines.
>
> And how fast does a small italian restaurant kick out bottles?
>
> hawk
> --
> Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon
campaign
> 111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
> These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
> Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \