In 2001 I experimented with various fruit wines and with the aid of a
titration kit I reduced the acidity by using POTASSIUM CARBONATE
ANHYDROUS (BDH Product Codes 10196-26157-29592-71150. Hazard Class NR
UN No CAS No 584-08-7). The potassium carbonate container has an "X"
(Harmful) symbol with the warning "Harmful if swallowed. Irritating to
eyes. Do not breathe dust.". Toxicity data is "LD50 1870 mg/kg oral,
rat".
The amount I used in each batch of 54 litres varied from 53g to 221g
depending on the titration kit readings. After an appropriate
maturation period in bulk and in bottle, we are now drinking these
wines but both my wife and myself are getting badly sore throats and
sore chests/lungs which lasts about 3 days whenever we drink just a
glass of these wines - even with the lowest dosage Pineapple wine
which has 53g per 54 litres. The only other "chemicals" added were
citric acid and pectolytic enzyme used in quantities as stated in the
appropriate recipes. As my knowledge of chemistry is very limited can
somebody qualified please tell me what is the maximum level of
potassium carbonate that can be used safely in wine. Should I play
safe and throw away over 300 bottles of Prickly Pear, Peach, Pineapple
and Tea wines?. I have been making wine from fresh grapes and fruits
for many years with very satisfactory results but this is the first
time I have used potassium carbonate - never again !!!. PLEASE HELP ME
IF YOU CAN.

I'm not that good at chemistry either, but I pulled out my bottle (which
I've used to reduce acidity) and it says calcium carbonate - use 5/8 tsp.
per gallon. There's no warnings on my bottle. I've heard of potassium
sorbate, which is a wine stabilizer. I'd be interested in what other have
to say. And I wouldn't drink anymore of the wine until you figure it out.
Take care.
Darlene

"Timmy Zammit" > wrote in message
om...
> In 2001 I experimented with various fruit wines and with the aid of a
> titration kit I reduced the acidity by using POTASSIUM CARBONATE
> ANHYDROUS (BDH Product Codes 10196-26157-29592-71150. Hazard Class NR
> UN No CAS No 584-08-7). The potassium carbonate container has an "X"
> (Harmful) symbol with the warning "Harmful if swallowed. Irritating to
> eyes. Do not breathe dust.". Toxicity data is "LD50 1870 mg/kg oral,
> rat".
> The amount I used in each batch of 54 litres varied from 53g to 221g
> depending on the titration kit readings. After an appropriate
> maturation period in bulk and in bottle, we are now drinking these
> wines but both my wife and myself are getting badly sore throats and
> sore chests/lungs which lasts about 3 days whenever we drink just a
> glass of these wines - even with the lowest dosage Pineapple wine
> which has 53g per 54 litres. The only other "chemicals" added were
> citric acid and pectolytic enzyme used in quantities as stated in the
> appropriate recipes. As my knowledge of chemistry is very limited can
> somebody qualified please tell me what is the maximum level of
> potassium carbonate that can be used safely in wine. Should I play
> safe and throw away over 300 bottles of Prickly Pear, Peach, Pineapple
> and Tea wines?. I have been making wine from fresh grapes and fruits
> for many years with very satisfactory results but this is the first
> time I have used potassium carbonate - never again !!!. PLEASE HELP ME
> IF YOU CAN.

Timmy - Relax, don't worry, have a glass of "grape" wine.

I don't know why you are having sore throats and lungs after drinking
potassium carbonate treated wines but I don't think it has anything to do
with your acid reducing treatment. Carbonates have been used to lower acid
in wine for ages. I've done it myself many times and the worst that happens
is the wine has a salty taste for 6 to 8 months after treatment.

Once you add the chemical to wine it reacts with the wine acids and breaks
down to carbon dioxide (which fizzes out of the wine) and potassium salts of
the various acids in wine. There isn't any intact K carbonate left in the
wine.

If you ingested potassium carbonate dissolved in a glass of water the
reaction in your stomach would be instantaneous and the same as in your
wine. A similar reaction occurs when you take Tums (calcium carbonate) for
indigestion. Stomach acid is neutralized and some gas is released. I can't
conceive how potassium carbonate could cause the problems you describe that
last for three days.

I have never made pineapple wine but it sounds like it could have a very low
pH to start with. Did you test pH and TA after carbonate treatment? Is the
pH still low? If so this may have something to do with your sore throats.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas



"we are now drinking these wines but both my wife and myself are getting
badly sore throats and
sore chests/lungs which lasts about 3 days whenever we drink just a glass of
these wines"

Did you test the pH of the wine after treatment with K Carbonate? Seems
like pineapple wine might be quite acidic to begin with. I have no
experience with pinapple, prickly pear nor tea wines. I've never had a
problem with peach wine so I'm not sure why you are having your problems.

However, I sure it's not due to the use of potassium carbonate. This is
very similar to baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and after addition to your
acidic wine no actual potassium carbonate will be left.
- even with the lowest dosage Pineapple wine
> which has 53g per 54 litres. The only other "chemicals" added were
> citric acid and pectolytic enzyme used in quantities as stated in the
> appropriate recipes. As my knowledge of chemistry is very limited can
> somebody qualified please tell me what is the maximum level of
> potassium carbonate that can be used safely in wine. Should I play
> safe and throw away over 300 bottles of Prickly Pear, Peach, Pineapple
> and Tea wines?. I have been making wine from fresh grapes and fruits
> for many years with very satisfactory results but this is the first
> time I have used potassium carbonate - never again !!!. PLEASE HELP ME
> IF YOU CAN.

"Timmy Zammit" > wrote in message
om...
> In 2001 I experimented with various fruit wines and with the aid of a
> titration kit I reduced the acidity by using POTASSIUM CARBONATE
> ANHYDROUS (BDH Product Codes 10196-26157-29592-71150. Hazard Class NR
> UN No CAS No 584-08-7). The potassium carbonate container has an "X"
> (Harmful) symbol with the warning "Harmful if swallowed. Irritating to
> eyes. Do not breathe dust.". Toxicity data is "LD50 1870 mg/kg oral,
> rat".
> The amount I used in each batch of 54 litres varied from 53g to 221g
> depending on the titration kit readings. After an appropriate
> maturation period in bulk and in bottle, we are now drinking these
> wines but both my wife and myself are getting badly sore throats and
> sore chests/lungs which lasts about 3 days whenever we drink just a
> glass of these wines - even with the lowest dosage Pineapple wine
> which has 53g per 54 litres. The only other "chemicals" added were
> citric acid and pectolytic enzyme used in quantities as stated in the
> appropriate recipes. As my knowledge of chemistry is very limited can
> somebody qualified please tell me what is the maximum level of
> potassium carbonate that can be used safely in wine. Should I play
> safe and throw away over 300 bottles of Prickly Pear, Peach, Pineapple
> and Tea wines?. I have been making wine from fresh grapes and fruits
> for many years with very satisfactory results but this is the first
> time I have used potassium carbonate - never again !!!. PLEASE HELP ME
> IF YOU CAN.

Potassium carbonate is quite safe to use in grape based wines because the
potassium can be chilled out as the bitartrate salt, leaving virtually no
residue of potassium in the wine.

Citric acid based wines are perhaps a different story. If potassium citrate
is soluble in wine at low temperatures (~30°F) you will never be able to
remove it from the wine.

I can't say why you should have such a strong reaction to the excess
potassium in your wine. The LD50 dosage is pretty high, so the small amount
you're getting shouldn't be a problem. Are you sure the wine hasn't been
over sulfited as well? Sulfites are known to cause allergic reactions in
many people. To determine if the wine is over sulfited you'd need to
measure the free SO2 and pH.

Tom S

First off -- I am neither a physician nor a chemist. I do have two years of
college chemistry, though, so I'm not a complete idiot, at least not in that
regard. :-) Just the same...

In article >,
(Timmy Zammit) wrote:
>In 2001 I experimented with various fruit wines and with the aid of a
>titration kit I reduced the acidity by using POTASSIUM CARBONATE
>ANHYDROUS (BDH Product Codes 10196-26157-29592-71150. Hazard Class NR
>UN No CAS No 584-08-7). The potassium carbonate container has an "X"
>(Harmful) symbol with the warning "Harmful if swallowed. Irritating to
>eyes. Do not breathe dust.". Toxicity data is "LD50 1870 mg/kg oral,
>rat".

OK, let's look at that a bit. Assume that you're a more-or-less normal-sized
human being, somewhere around 80 kg. That means (further assuming that rat
data can be extrapolated to humans) that a lethal dose for you could be
expected to be in the neighborhood of 80kg * 1870mg/kg = about 150 grams. Not
milligrams. Grams.

>The amount I used in each batch of 54 litres varied from 53g to 221g
>depending on the titration kit readings.

So the concentration in each batch ranges from 1g/l to a little over 4g/l.
That means you'd need to consume between 35 and 150 liters _at_once_ to get a
lethal dose. Even *one* liter of wine is a hell of a lot to drink at one time.
A normal glass of wine is about 200 ml, and the potassium carbonate in 200 ml
of your wine would be between 200 and 800 mg. IOW, you're _nowhere_near_ the
limits of what's safe.

> After an appropriate
>maturation period in bulk and in bottle, we are now drinking these
>wines but both my wife and myself are getting badly sore throats and
>sore chests/lungs which lasts about 3 days whenever we drink just a
>glass of these wines - even with the lowest dosage Pineapple wine
>which has 53g per 54 litres.

Much more likely IMO that you're experiencing a reaction either to sulfites or
histamines. Try taking a Benadryl an hour before drinking the wine, and see if
that makes a difference.

>The only other "chemicals" added were
>citric acid and pectolytic enzyme used in quantities as stated in the
>appropriate recipes. As my knowledge of chemistry is very limited can
>somebody qualified please tell me what is the maximum level of
>potassium carbonate that can be used safely in wine.

Not sure there -- but I've used it before with absolutely no hint of ill
effects. I think you're allergic to something else in the wine. Maybe even
pectic enzyme.

>Should I play
>safe and throw away over 300 bottles of Prickly Pear, Peach, Pineapple
>and Tea wines?.

Not without trying antihistamines first, to see if that makes a difference.

Potassium Carbonate, to my understanding, is not considered poisonous,
though I would not want to get the dust in my eyes. I could concentrate on
understanding what you used. If it was marked "Harmful" maybe it has
impurities or something is special about it that causes it to be a problem.
They would not put that warning on the label without a reason. I would
definitely stop drinking the wine until I found out some specifics about the
material you used. If you can, contact the company that sold it or
manufactured it or both. If that is not possible, contact a poison center.

Ray

"Timmy Zammit" > wrote in message
om...
> In 2001 I experimented with various fruit wines and with the aid of a
> titration kit I reduced the acidity by using POTASSIUM CARBONATE
> ANHYDROUS (BDH Product Codes 10196-26157-29592-71150. Hazard Class NR
> UN No CAS No 584-08-7). The potassium carbonate container has an "X"
> (Harmful) symbol with the warning "Harmful if swallowed. Irritating to
> eyes. Do not breathe dust.". Toxicity data is "LD50 1870 mg/kg oral,
> rat".
> The amount I used in each batch of 54 litres varied from 53g to 221g
> depending on the titration kit readings. After an appropriate
> maturation period in bulk and in bottle, we are now drinking these
> wines but both my wife and myself are getting badly sore throats and
> sore chests/lungs which lasts about 3 days whenever we drink just a
> glass of these wines - even with the lowest dosage Pineapple wine
> which has 53g per 54 litres. The only other "chemicals" added were
> citric acid and pectolytic enzyme used in quantities as stated in the
> appropriate recipes. As my knowledge of chemistry is very limited can
> somebody qualified please tell me what is the maximum level of
> potassium carbonate that can be used safely in wine. Should I play
> safe and throw away over 300 bottles of Prickly Pear, Peach, Pineapple
> and Tea wines?. I have been making wine from fresh grapes and fruits
> for many years with very satisfactory results but this is the first
> time I have used potassium carbonate - never again !!!. PLEASE HELP ME
> IF YOU CAN.

"Ray" > wrote in message
m...
> Potassium Carbonate, to my understanding, is not considered poisonous,
> though I would not want to get the dust in my eyes. I could concentrate
on
> understanding what you used. If it was marked "Harmful" maybe it has
> impurities or something is special about it that causes it to be a
problem.
> They would not put that warning on the label without a reason.

Sure, there's a reason. It's a standard CYA disclaimer. That doesn't mean
it's particularly harmful. Water is harmful if you aspirate enough of it.

I would
> definitely stop drinking the wine until I found out some specifics about
the
> material you used.

The one question I have is about the purity of the chemical itself. For
winemaking, I'd want to stick to "reagent" grade or "USP". "Technical"
grade chemicals are often not particularly pure. Read the label.

Tom S