Hi......a couple of questions if I may.....assuming
one makes wine and the acid is unreasonably high can
I.....(1) add "precipated chalk"
now that its in the secondary? I really wanted to
avoid using it at all hoping to use other methods
but thought I'd ask......(2)what kind of drop in acid
can i expect by using cold stabilization?
(3)last spring after my cold stab. my wine went into
spontaneous malolactic ferm., is this something i can
depend on happening again or should I induce
this?....can I do this now in the secondary?...and
what kind of acid drop can i reasonably expect from
this as well?...assuming that cold stab. and malo.
ferm. are my only options , will a high acid wine
(1.3 perhaps) ever drop near .7 ?......thanks Andy
Jones... ( )

"Andy j." > wrote:

> Hi......a couple of questions if I may.....assuming one makes wine
> and the acid is unreasonably high can I.....(1) add "precipated chalk"
> now that its in the secondary? I really wanted to avoid using it at
> all hoping to use other methods but thought I'd ask......

Calcium or potassium carbonate should preferably be added as early as
possible, however they _may_ be added now if you wish.

2.5 g/gallon of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) will reduce acidity by roughly
..1%, but you need to run test trials, because results can
vary. CaCO3 should be added as early as possible, since it takes a long time
to precipitate, and since it will not precipitate at lower
temperatures.

3.8 g/gal of Potassium carbonate (K2CO3), or 3.4 g/gal of Potassium
bicarbonate (KHCO3), will reduce acidity by roughly .1%. Again, test trials
will help insure the desired results. Or add half the amount now, and check
again 2-3 weeks after cold stabilization has begun.

Because they act on (ALL) the tartaric before malic or citric, don't use
CaCO3, K2CO3, or KHCO3 to reduce acidity more than .3-4%, or you will be
left with malic and citric alone. CaCO3 can often leave a chalkly taste. If
you are planning to cold stabilize, K2 or KHCO3 would probably be a better
choice.

>....(2)what kind of drop in acid can i expect by using cold stabilization?

Anywhere from 0 to 1.5% TA. Cold stabilization (super-chilling a finished
wine to 25ºF for an extended period of time) will cause SOME of the
potassium bitartrate to precipitate. But it won't reduce total acidity much,
unless the grapes had a high-level of tartrate salt to begin with.

> (3)last spring after my cold stab. my wine went into spontaneous
> malolactic ferm., is this something i can depend on happening again
>or should I induce > this?....can I do this now in the secondary?...and
> what kind of acid drop can i reasonably expect from this?

You cannot depend on spontaneous malolactic fermentation, and it is unlikely
in a high-acid (low pH) must. You _may_ still be able to induce it in the
secondary. I'm not sure that you should. Malolactic fermentation will lower
the malic acid without lowering the tartaric. This is a very effective
method, BUT the greater temperatures needed to sustain the malolactic
bacteria increases the risk of spoilage, and reduces the fruitiness of the
wine. This is why it is best to do it while primary fermentation (at higher
temperatures) is taking place.

The amount of acid dropped is related to the distance from the
Haight-Ashbury. Malolactic fermentation changes the malic acid into lactic,
which I believe is about 1/2 the strength and acidity of the malic. So the
drop depends on the amount of malic. Normally, malic acid is about 25% of
the acid in grapes (50% is tartaric, and 25% is citric), so you can expect
about a 12% drop (i.e. if your TA is now .9%, malic fermentation will reduce
it to .8%). If there is an abnormal amount of malic, the drop may be more or
less.

However, with such a high acidity must, you need to reduce the acidity
somewhat before attempting to induce malolactic fermentation.

> ...assuming that cold stab. and malo.
> ferm. are my only options , will a high acid wine
> (1.3 perhaps) ever drop near .7 ?......thanks Andy Jones...

Assuming that blending with a low-acidity wine is not an option for you,
probably the next best method with such a high-acidity level would be to
split the wine into two batches. Then add enough potassium carbonate to drop
the acidity to zero in one carboy. Then mix the two back together. This
should leave you with the original blend of acids, and a TA of .65. If this
is lower than you wish to go, reduce the acid in a volume smaller than 1/2
the wine, and then blend them back together.

"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
A whole lot of good advice, but forgot to mention that there will be a LOT
of foaming when adjusting TA with any carbonate or bicarbonate! Be
forewarned.

BTW, use potassium carbonate or bicarbonate - not the calcium version.

Tom S

"Tom S" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Negodki" > wrote in message
> ...
> A whole lot of good advice, but forgot to mention that there will be a LOT
> of foaming when adjusting TA with any carbonate or bicarbonate! Be
> forewarned.
>
> BTW, use potassium carbonate or bicarbonate - not the calcium version.

If you don't want the foaming to occur, chill the wine to cold stabilization
temperature before adding carbonate or bicarbonate. No foaming, but the
drop in TA will take longer.

John

"Tom S" > wrote in message om>...
> "Negodki" > wrote in message
> ...
> A whole lot of good advice, but forgot to mention that there will be a LOT
> of foaming when adjusting TA with any carbonate or bicarbonate! Be
> forewarned.
>
> BTW, use potassium carbonate or bicarbonate - not the calcium version.
>
> Tom S

This man speaks the truth... definitely, add it slowly! He taught
me this lesson the hard way! :-)

-Paul

"Negodki" > wrote: "... Normally, malic acid is about
25% of the acid in grapes (50% is tartaric, and 25% is citric)..."

Lum" > wrote: "Grapes contain from 0.2 - 0.7
percent citric acid (see Margalit, "Concepts in Wine Chemistry," page 17).
Practically all of the acid is composed of tartaric and malic. Equal early
in the season, most grape varieties contain more malic than tartaric acid.
But, malic acid is respired by the vine during hot weather, so grapes grown
in hot climates contain more tartaric than malic when they are ripe."

Negodki now writes: "That sounds reasonable, and I stand corrected. I
obtained the 50-25-25 figure from Grape&Granary's catalog, in which they
state that those proportions (used in their acid blend) were the same
proportions in which these acids occurred naturally in grapes. I assumed the
statement to be accurate, even though the citric did seem quite high."