This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this September. I am buying 1400lbs of
grapes. (huge purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday thoughts as they do, I
contemplate everything.

Many of you have answered previous questions and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. Should I induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal primaries holding 25 gal each,
and nearing the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...f0d551_300.jpg

Wayne Harris wrote:

> This is revisiting an old post of mine.
>
> I plan to really up my game this September. I
> am buying 1400lbs of
> grapes. (huge purchase for me)
>
> And as the planning steps fill my everyday
> thoughts as they do, I contemplate everything.
>
> Many of you have answered previous questions and
> I thank you.
>
> But I wonder still about MLF. Should I induce
> MLF?
>
> I still don't know how i will come down on this.
>
> My inclination is to do it.
>
> My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal primaries
> holding 25 gal each, and nearing the end of
> alchoholic fermentation, induce MLF.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> My primaries.
>
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...f0d551_300.jpg

Unless you keep your pH low and or have a good
level of SO2 throughout the aging process, you
probably will have MLF whether you pitch it or
not.

The point is that there are natural MLF bacteria
on grapes brought in from the field. The
difference is that like yeasts, there are
different strains of MLF bacteria. Some native
MLF can produce good results and others NOT good
results. In my opinion, it is best to have
control of the MLF and choose a strain that has a
better chance of producing GOOD results.

I will be posting a summary of an article in the
May/June issue of "Practical Winery & Vineyard"
in a new thread when I get a chance to re-read
and type it up. It deals with Biogenic Amines
and Ethyl Carbamate.

"Practical Winery & Vineyard" is a good magazine
for the serious amateur or commercial grower /
winemaker. Some of the articles are indeed too
technical for beginners or non serious amateurs
but I usually always find articles of interest
that I can understand and find useful.

The article, in part, states that there could be
some compounds produced by "natural" yeast and
"natural" MLF bacteria that "may" not be good for
your health or produce some unpleasant side
effects. The article also brings up some issues
with extended maceration and pH values of 3.7 or
higher. Stay tuned.

The first question you need to answer - is MLF desirable in the variety
/ style of wine you're making.

IF you're making a still red wine, then generally MLF is desirable. ong
bottle aging requires maximum stability, so most still red wines are
put through MLF. If you're making a still white wine, the the question
becomes more stylistic. I tend to prefer my white wines very crisp - so
I do not induce MLF, and use lysozyme to suppress. But if I'm making a
rich, CA-style Chardonnay, then i might be inclined to put through MLF,
or partial MLF.

If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I would argue for using a
commercial MLF bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out, you're playing
Russian roullette with whatever other malic consuming bacteria might
already be present.

Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?


On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris > said:

> This is revisiting an old post of mine.
>
> I plan to really up my game this September. I am buying 1400lbs of
> grapes. (huge purchase for me)
>
> And as the planning steps fill my everyday thoughts as they do, I
> contemplate everything.
>
> Many of you have answered previous questions and I thank you.
>
> But I wonder still about MLF. Should I induce MLF?
>
> I still don't know how i will come down on this.
>
> My inclination is to do it.
>
> My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal primaries holding 25 gal each,
> and nearing the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce MLF.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> My primaries.
> http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...f0d551_300.jpg


>

On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles > wrote:
> The first question you need to answer - is MLF desirable in the variety
> / style of wine you're making.
>
> IF you're making a still red wine, then generally MLF is desirable. ong
> bottle aging requires maximum stability, so most still red wines are
> put through MLF. If you're making a still white wine, the the question
> becomes more stylistic. I tend to prefer my white wines very crisp - so
> I do not induce MLF, and use lysozyme to suppress. But if I'm making a
> rich, CA-style Chardonnay, then i might be inclined to put through MLF,
> or partial MLF.
>
> If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I would argue for using a
> commercial MLF bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out, you're playing
> Russian roullette with whatever other malic consuming bacteria might
> already be present.
>
> Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?
>
> On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris > said:
>
>
>
> > This is revisiting an old post of mine.
>
> > I plan to really up my game this September. *I am buying 1400lbs of
> > grapes. *(huge purchase for me)
>
> > And as the planning steps fill my everyday thoughts as they do, I
> > contemplate everything.
>
> > Many of you have answered previous questions and I thank you.
>
> > But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I induce MLF?
>
> > I still don't know how i will come down on this.
>
> > My inclination is to do it.
>
> > My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal primaries holding 25 gal each,
> > and nearing the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce MLF.
>
> > Thoughts?
>
> > My primaries.
> >http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...-4dcb-8ad3...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks,
My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet Sauvignon. I plan on
using

Wayne Harris wrote:

> On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles
> > wrote:
>> The first question you need to answer - is MLF
>> desirable in the variety / style of wine you're
>> making.
>>
>> IF you're making a still red wine, then
>> generally MLF is desirable. ong bottle aging
>> requires maximum stability, so most still red
>> wines are put through MLF. If you're making a
>> still white wine, the the question becomes more
>> stylistic. I tend to prefer my white wines very
>> crisp - so I do not induce MLF, and use
>> lysozyme to suppress. But if I'm making a rich,
>> CA-style Chardonnay, then i might be inclined
>> to put through MLF, or partial MLF.
>>
>> If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I
>> would argue for using a commercial MLF
>> bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out,
>> you're playing Russian roullette with whatever
>> other malic consuming bacteria might already be
>> present.
>>
>> Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?
>>
>> On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris
>> > said:
>>
>>
>>
>> > This is revisiting an old post of mine.
>>
>> > I plan to really up my game this September.
>> > I am buying 1400lbs of grapes. *(huge
>> > purchase for me)
>>
>> > And as the planning steps fill my everyday
>> > thoughts as they do, I contemplate
>> > everything.
>>
>> > Many of you have answered previous questions
>> > and I thank you.
>>
>> > But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I
>> > induce MLF?
>>
>> > I still don't know how i will come down on
>> > this.
>>
>> > My inclination is to do it.
>>
>> > My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal
>> > primaries holding 25 gal each, and nearing
>> > the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce
>> > MLF.
>>
>> > Thoughts?
>>
>> > My primaries.
>>
>http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...-4dcb-8ad3...-
>> >Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks,
> My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet
> Sauvignon. I plan on using

Have you gotten grapes from there before?
What style of wine do you like - old world or new
world?

My guess is that they will be high brix, low acid
and high pH.

I commend you on making a lot of wine and going
for the gusto. Since you are, and have a lot of
money and time invested, it might be worthwhile
to have some chemistries run by a commercial lab
and lower your risk of producing a flabby, high
alcohol, high pH wine that may not be what you
want or expect.

On May 15, 9:25*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> Wayne Harris wrote:
> > On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles
> > > wrote:
> >> The first question you need to answer - is MLF
> >> desirable in the variety / style of wine you're
> >> making.
>
> >> IF you're making a still red wine, then
> >> generally MLF is desirable. ong bottle aging
> >> requires maximum stability, so most still red
> >> wines are put through MLF. If you're making a
> >> still white wine, the the question becomes more
> >> stylistic. I tend to prefer my white wines very
> >> crisp - so I do not induce MLF, and use
> >> lysozyme to suppress. But if I'm making a rich,
> >> CA-style Chardonnay, then i might be inclined
> >> to put through MLF, or partial MLF.
>
> >> If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I
> >> would argue for using a commercial MLF
> >> bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out,
> >> you're playing Russian roullette with whatever
> >> other malic consuming bacteria might already be
> >> present.
>
> >> Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?
>
> >> On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris
> >> > said:
>
> >> > This is revisiting an old post of mine.
>
> >> > I plan to really up my game this September.
> >> > I am buying 1400lbs of grapes. *(huge
> >> > purchase for me)
>
> >> > And as the planning steps fill my everyday
> >> > thoughts as they do, I contemplate
> >> > everything.
>
> >> > Many of you have answered previous questions
> >> > and I thank you.
>
> >> > But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I
> >> > induce MLF?
>
> >> > I still don't know how i will come down on
> >> > this.
>
> >> > My inclination is to do it.
>
> >> > My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal
> >> > primaries holding 25 gal each, and nearing
> >> > the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce
> >> > MLF.
>
> >> > Thoughts?
>
> >> > My primaries.
>
> >http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...7600-4dcb-8ad3...
> >> >Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Thanks,
> > My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet
> > Sauvignon. *I plan on using
>
> Have you gotten grapes from there before?
> What style of wine do you like - old world or new
> world?
>
> My guess is that they will be high brix, low acid
> and high pH. *
>
> I commend you on making a lot of wine and going
> for the gusto. *Since you are, and have a lot of
> money and time invested, it might be worthwhile
> o have some chemistries run by a commercial lab
> and lower your risk of producing a flabby, high
> alcohol, high pH wine that may not be what you
> want or expect.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I can check my own S02, TA, SG, and Alcohol.

at 100 gallons, think i should still have it measured at a commercial
lab?
Any labs you have worked with?

Wayne Harris wrote:

> On May 15, 9:25*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> Wayne Harris wrote:
>> > On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles
>> > > wrote:
>> >> The first question you need to answer - is
>> >> MLF desirable in the variety / style of wine
>> >> you're making.
>>
>> >> IF you're making a still red wine, then
>> >> generally MLF is desirable. ong bottle aging
>> >> requires maximum stability, so most still
>> >> red wines are put through MLF. If you're
>> >> making a still white wine, the the question
>> >> becomes more stylistic. I tend to prefer my
>> >> white wines very crisp - so I do not induce
>> >> MLF, and use lysozyme to suppress. But if
>> >> I'm making a rich, CA-style Chardonnay, then
>> >> i might be inclined to put through MLF, or
>> >> partial MLF.
>>
>> >> If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I
>> >> would argue for using a commercial MLF
>> >> bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out,
>> >> you're playing Russian roullette with
>> >> whatever other malic consuming bacteria
>> >> might already be present.
>>
>> >> Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?
>>
>> >> On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris
>> >> > said:
>>
>> >> > This is revisiting an old post of mine.
>>
>> >> > I plan to really up my game this
>> >> > September. I am buying 1400lbs of grapes.
>> >> > (huge purchase for me)
>>
>> >> > And as the planning steps fill my everyday
>> >> > thoughts as they do, I contemplate
>> >> > everything.
>>
>> >> > Many of you have answered previous
>> >> > questions and I thank you.
>>
>> >> > But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I
>> >> > induce MLF?
>>
>> >> > I still don't know how i will come down on
>> >> > this.
>>
>> >> > My inclination is to do it.
>>
>> >> > My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal
>> >> > primaries holding 25 gal each, and nearing
>> >> > the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce
>> >> > MLF.
>>
>> >> > Thoughts?
>>
>> >> > My primaries.
>>
>>
>http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...7600-4dcb-8ad3...
>> >> >Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Thanks,
>> > My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet
>> > Sauvignon. *I plan on using
>>
>> Have you gotten grapes from there before?
>> What style of wine do you like - old world or
>> new world?
>>
>> My guess is that they will be high brix, low
>> acid and high pH.
>>
>> I commend you on making a lot of wine and going
>> for the gusto. *Since you are, and have a lot
>> of money and time invested, it might be
>> worthwhile o have some chemistries run by a
>> commercial lab and lower your risk of producing
>> a flabby, high alcohol, high pH wine that may
>> not be what you want or expect.- Hide quoted
>> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I can check my own S02, TA, SG, and Alcohol.
>
> at 100 gallons, think i should still have it
> measured at a commercial lab?
> Any labs you have worked with?

I do not have SO2 apparatus (on my Christmas wish
list). If you have confidence in your analysis
and have good equipment then that is fine.

In the past I have used Vinquiry out in
California. I have recently discovered that the
Enology Department at Virginia Tech will do lab
analysis also and their price is better - and
they are close to me.