Anyone have additional thoughts on reducing / eliminating frost damage?

Our vineyard is at about 2800' here in the Sierra Foothills. April
frosts, soon afer budbreak, are an annual anxiety. Last night was a
cold one, and we've got some notable frost damage this morning.

Tonight looks to be another cold one, probably worse (no wind), so
we're irrigating heavy today, trying to get the soil around the vines
as saturated as possible in an atempt to try and change the soil heat
radiation profile as much as possible.

Anyone use any additional frost protection strategies? Sprinklers and
fans are not possible for us jst now ($).

AxisOfBeagles wrote:

> Anyone have additional thoughts on reducing /
> eliminating frost damage?
>
> Our vineyard is at about 2800' here in the
> Sierra Foothills. April frosts, soon afer
> budbreak, are an annual anxiety. Last night was
> a cold one, and we've got some notable frost
> damage this morning.
>
> Tonight looks to be another cold one, probably
> worse (no wind), so we're irrigating heavy
> today, trying to get the soil around the vines
> as saturated as possible in an atempt to try and
> change the soil heat radiation profile as much
> as possible.
>
> Anyone use any additional frost protection
> strategies? Sprinklers and fans are not possible
> for us jst now ($).

I live in Central Maryland. Last year I took a
big hit from spring freeze so this year I ordered
a row of covering material from:

groworganic.com
(888) 784-1722

It was a 83 inches by 500 feet and the cost was
about $167.

They claim they sell to a lot of vineyards out
there in California.

I just have a small backyard vineyard of about 110
vines. It could get expensive if you have a lot
under production.

AxisOfBeagles wrote:
> Anyone have additional thoughts on reducing / eliminating frost damage?
>
> Our vineyard is at about 2800' here in the Sierra Foothills. April
> frosts, soon afer budbreak, are an annual anxiety. Last night was a cold
> one, and we've got some notable frost damage this morning.
>
> Tonight looks to be another cold one, probably worse (no wind), so we're
> irrigating heavy today, trying to get the soil around the vines as
> saturated as possible in an atempt to try and change the soil heat
> radiation profile as much as possible.
>
> Anyone use any additional frost protection strategies? Sprinklers and
> fans are not possible for us jst now ($).
>
>
>
Would covering the buds with a little 'tent' that doesn't touch the bud
work? If there's no wind, a layer or three of newspaper (folded like
smaller versions of the pirate's hats we made as kids?) might suffice;
otherwise something a little more substantial might be needed. This
would keep frost from settling on the buds, though wouldn't stop direct
freezing of the buds.

Thanks Paul - I'll check this out.

It so happens that I live just up the hill from the HQ of
'groworganic.com' (Peaceful Valley Farm Supplies). I'll look through
their site for sugestions. I know they sell a spray on polymer like
stuff that supposedly prevents transpiration, thereby reducing radiant
heat loss during a frost night.

Does the covering work? I thought about coverings, but it didn't make
sense to my small brain. as best I understand it, frost is the result
of radiant heat loss into sub-freezing air, resulting in frost-bitten
new shoots. does the vine transpire enough heat that the cover can hold
in to prevent the frost freeze? Curious.

Anway, I need to put in a sprinkler system this next season. I'll
problably lose the majority of the primary shoots this year - which
means a less than 50% crop. &*^$@#&*$



On 2008-04-20 13:07:04 -0700, "Paul E. Lehmann" > said:

> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>
>> Anyone have additional thoughts on reducing /
>> eliminating frost damage?
>>
>> Our vineyard is at about 2800' here in the
>> Sierra Foothills. April frosts, soon afer
>> budbreak, are an annual anxiety. Last night was
>> a cold one, and we've got some notable frost
>> damage this morning.
>>
>> Tonight looks to be another cold one, probably
>> worse (no wind), so we're irrigating heavy
>> today, trying to get the soil around the vines
>> as saturated as possible in an atempt to try and
>> change the soil heat radiation profile as much
>> as possible.
>>
>> Anyone use any additional frost protection
>> strategies? Sprinklers and fans are not possible
>> for us jst now ($).
>
> I live in Central Maryland. Last year I took a
> big hit from spring freeze so this year I ordered
> a row of covering material from:
>
> groworganic.com
> (888) 784-1722
>
> It was a 83 inches by 500 feet and the cost was
> about $167.
>
> They claim they sell to a lot of vineyards out
> there in California.
>
> I just have a small backyard vineyard of about 110
> vines. It could get expensive if you have a lot
> under production.

AxisOfBeagles wrote:

> Thanks Paul - I'll check this out.
>
> It so happens that I live just up the hill from
> the HQ of 'groworganic.com' (Peaceful Valley
> Farm Supplies). I'll look through their site for
> sugestions. I know they sell a spray on polymer
> like stuff that supposedly prevents
> transpiration, thereby reducing radiant heat
> loss during a frost night.
>
> Does the covering work?

I don't know.

I put in on this year for two days and nights
because the temps were supposed to get down to 25
degrees. It actually only got down to about 29
degrees one night.

I would talk to the people at groworganic. They
claim that a lot of grape growers use the
material. There are several grades of it.

I have a set of catch wires about a foot above my
cordon wire so I just draped it over these wires
and attached with those springy paper clasps. I
bought about 200 small ones at Staples fairly
cheap. The two ends did not quite reach the
ground but the people I bought it from said it
would still offer protection as long as it was
close to the ground.

I had a heart breaking season last year so I was
not going to take a chance this year. My bud
break is excellent this year.

> I thought about
> coverings, but it didn't make sense to my small
> brain. as best I understand it, frost is the
> result of radiant heat loss into sub-freezing
> air, resulting in frost-bitten new shoots. does
> the vine transpire enough heat that the cover
> can hold in to prevent the frost freeze?
> Curious.
>
> Anway, I need to put in a sprinkler system this
> next season. I'll problably lose the majority of
> the primary shoots this year - which means a
> less than 50% crop. &*^$@#&*$
>
>
>
> On 2008-04-20 13:07:04 -0700, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > said:
>
>> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone have additional thoughts on reducing /
>>> eliminating frost damage?
>>>
>>> Our vineyard is at about 2800' here in the
>>> Sierra Foothills. April frosts, soon afer
>>> budbreak, are an annual anxiety. Last night
>>> was a cold one, and we've got some notable
>>> frost damage this morning.
>>>
>>> Tonight looks to be another cold one, probably
>>> worse (no wind), so we're irrigating heavy
>>> today, trying to get the soil around the vines
>>> as saturated as possible in an atempt to try
>>> and change the soil heat radiation profile as
>>> much as possible.
>>>
>>> Anyone use any additional frost protection
>>> strategies? Sprinklers and fans are not
>>> possible for us jst now ($).
>>
>> I live in Central Maryland. Last year I took a
>> big hit from spring freeze so this year I
>> ordered a row of covering material from:
>>
>> groworganic.com
>> (888) 784-1722
>>
>> It was a 83 inches by 500 feet and the cost was
>> about $167.
>>
>> They claim they sell to a lot of vineyards out
>> there in California.
>>
>> I just have a small backyard vineyard of about
>> 110
>> vines. It could get expensive if you have a
>> lot under production.

Sounds good - will chat with the folks at PV. I've just had that
hertbreak. Two consecutive nights of frost. UNtil now, I was having a
wndeful bud break. Longest shoots were about 3", most half of that. All
now gray and withered. There goes what I was hoping was going to be a
banner crop.

For sure I am installing a fine mist sprinkler system this year. Like
you, I've only got a small vineyard (about 200 vines) and one or two
nights of frost can wipe out the bulk of a season.

Interetsing - the muscat have thus far avoided forst damage. They are
on a steeper slope abov the rest of the vineyard. I'm guessing that the
air movement down that slope is enough to give them a degree or two
more protection.



On 2008-04-21 03:23:22 -0700, "Paul E. Lehmann" > said:

> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>
>> Thanks Paul - I'll check this out.
>>
>> It so happens that I live just up the hill from
>> the HQ of 'groworganic.com' (Peaceful Valley
>> Farm Supplies). I'll look through their site for
>> sugestions. I know they sell a spray on polymer
>> like stuff that supposedly prevents
>> transpiration, thereby reducing radiant heat
>> loss during a frost night.
>>
>> Does the covering work?
>
> I don't know.
>
> I put in on this year for two days and nights
> because the temps were supposed to get down to 25
> degrees. It actually only got down to about 29
> degrees one night.
>
> I would talk to the people at groworganic. They
> claim that a lot of grape growers use the
> material. There are several grades of it.
>
> I have a set of catch wires about a foot above my
> cordon wire so I just draped it over these wires
> and attached with those springy paper clasps. I
> bought about 200 small ones at Staples fairly
> cheap. The two ends did not quite reach the
> ground but the people I bought it from said it
> would still offer protection as long as it was
> close to the ground.
>
> I had a heart breaking season last year so I was
> not going to take a chance this year. My bud
> break is excellent this year.
>
>> I thought about
>> coverings, but it didn't make sense to my small
>> brain. as best I understand it, frost is the
>> result of radiant heat loss into sub-freezing
>> air, resulting in frost-bitten new shoots. does
>> the vine transpire enough heat that the cover
>> can hold in to prevent the frost freeze?
>> Curious.
>>
>> Anway, I need to put in a sprinkler system this
>> next season. I'll problably lose the majority of
>> the primary shoots this year - which means a
>> less than 50% crop. &*^$@#&*$
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2008-04-20 13:07:04 -0700, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>> > said:
>>
>>> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone have additional thoughts on reducing /
>>>> eliminating frost damage?
>>>>
>>>> Our vineyard is at about 2800' here in the
>>>> Sierra Foothills. April frosts, soon afer
>>>> budbreak, are an annual anxiety. Last night
>>>> was a cold one, and we've got some notable
>>>> frost damage this morning.
>>>>
>>>> Tonight looks to be another cold one, probably
>>>> worse (no wind), so we're irrigating heavy
>>>> today, trying to get the soil around the vines
>>>> as saturated as possible in an atempt to try
>>>> and change the soil heat radiation profile as
>>>> much as possible.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone use any additional frost protection
>>>> strategies? Sprinklers and fans are not
>>>> possible for us jst now ($).
>>>
>>> I live in Central Maryland. Last year I took a
>>> big hit from spring freeze so this year I
>>> ordered a row of covering material from:
>>>
>>> groworganic.com
>>> (888) 784-1722
>>>
>>> It was a 83 inches by 500 feet and the cost was
>>> about $167.
>>>
>>> They claim they sell to a lot of vineyards out
>>> there in California.
>>>
>>> I just have a small backyard vineyard of about
>>> 110
>>> vines. It could get expensive if you have a
>>> lot under production.

AxisOfBeagles wrote:

> Sounds good - will chat with the folks at PV.
> I've just had that hertbreak. Two consecutive
> nights of frost. UNtil now, I was having a
> wndeful bud break. Longest shoots were about 3",
> most half of that. All now gray and withered.
> There goes what I was hoping was going to be a
> banner crop.
>
> For sure I am installing a fine mist sprinkler
> system this year. Like you, I've only got a
> small vineyard (about 200 vines) and one or two
> nights of frost can wipe out the bulk of a
> season.
>
> Interetsing - the muscat have thus far avoided
> forst damage. They are on a steeper slope abov
> the rest of the vineyard. I'm guessing that the
> air movement down that slope is enough to give
> them a degree or two more protection.

Could be. I am on the side of a hill near a
ravine. I think the cold air moves down and
settles before moving more down the ravine.

My Cabernet Sauvignon came through it best last
year, BUT the Racoons got most of those. At
first I thought it was birds but then I observed
that the grapes were being eaten in the center of
the row. Birds usually start at the ends. I had
netting up but the racoons were too cleaver. In
five days, I trapped 5 racoons. I am putting out
the trap EARLY this year.

I am going to put a bottom wire in about a foot or
a foot and a half from the ground and that way I
will have something to hook the net onto under
the vines - also something to clamp the cold
protection material onto.

It is really gut wrenching to know that you have
to maintain the vines this year even though you
won't get much reward.

Good luck.

Paul


>
>
>
> On 2008-04-21 03:23:22 -0700, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > said:
>
>> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Paul - I'll check this out.
>>>
>>> It so happens that I live just up the hill
>>> from the HQ of 'groworganic.com' (Peaceful
>>> Valley Farm Supplies). I'll look through their
>>> site for sugestions. I know they sell a spray
>>> on polymer like stuff that supposedly prevents
>>> transpiration, thereby reducing radiant heat
>>> loss during a frost night.
>>>
>>> Does the covering work?
>>
>> I don't know.
>>
>> I put in on this year for two days and nights
>> because the temps were supposed to get down to
>> 25
>> degrees. It actually only got down to about 29
>> degrees one night.
>>
>> I would talk to the people at groworganic.
>> They claim that a lot of grape growers use the
>> material. There are several grades of it.
>>
>> I have a set of catch wires about a foot above
>> my cordon wire so I just draped it over these
>> wires
>> and attached with those springy paper clasps.
>> I bought about 200 small ones at Staples fairly
>> cheap. The two ends did not quite reach the
>> ground but the people I bought it from said it
>> would still offer protection as long as it was
>> close to the ground.
>>
>> I had a heart breaking season last year so I
>> was
>> not going to take a chance this year. My bud
>> break is excellent this year.
>>
>>> I thought about
>>> coverings, but it didn't make sense to my
>>> small brain. as best I understand it, frost is
>>> the result of radiant heat loss into
>>> sub-freezing air, resulting in frost-bitten
>>> new shoots. does the vine transpire enough
>>> heat that the cover can hold in to prevent the
>>> frost freeze? Curious.
>>>
>>> Anway, I need to put in a sprinkler system
>>> this next season. I'll problably lose the
>>> majority of the primary shoots this year -
>>> which means a less than 50% crop. &*^$@#&*$
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2008-04-20 13:07:04 -0700, "Paul E.
>>> Lehmann" > said:
>>>
>>>> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone have additional thoughts on reducing
>>>>> / eliminating frost damage?
>>>>>
>>>>> Our vineyard is at about 2800' here in the
>>>>> Sierra Foothills. April frosts, soon afer
>>>>> budbreak, are an annual anxiety. Last night
>>>>> was a cold one, and we've got some notable
>>>>> frost damage this morning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tonight looks to be another cold one,
>>>>> probably worse (no wind), so we're
>>>>> irrigating heavy today, trying to get the
>>>>> soil around the vines as saturated as
>>>>> possible in an atempt to try and change the
>>>>> soil heat radiation profile as much as
>>>>> possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone use any additional frost protection
>>>>> strategies? Sprinklers and fans are not
>>>>> possible for us jst now ($).
>>>>
>>>> I live in Central Maryland. Last year I took
>>>> a big hit from spring freeze so this year I
>>>> ordered a row of covering material from:
>>>>
>>>> groworganic.com
>>>> (888) 784-1722
>>>>
>>>> It was a 83 inches by 500 feet and the cost
>>>> was about $167.
>>>>
>>>> They claim they sell to a lot of vineyards
>>>> out there in California.
>>>>
>>>> I just have a small backyard vineyard of
>>>> about 110
>>>> vines. It could get expensive if you have a
>>>> lot under production.

On Apr 21, 12:20*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
> > Sounds good - will chat with the folks at PV.
> > I've just had that hertbreak. Two consecutive
> > nights of frost. UNtil now, I was having a
> > wndeful bud break. Longest shoots were about 3",
> > most half of that. All now gray and withered.
> > There goes what I was hoping was going to be a
> > banner crop.
>
> > For sure I am installing a fine mist sprinkler
> > system this year. Like you, I've only got a
> > small vineyard (about 200 vines) and one or two
> > nights of frost can wipe out the bulk of a
> > season.
>
> > Interetsing - the muscat have thus far avoided
> > forst damage. They are on a steeper slope abov
> > the rest of the vineyard. I'm guessing that the
> > air movement down that slope is enough to give
> > them a degree or two more protection.
>
> Could be. *I am on the side of a hill near a
> ravine. *I think the cold air moves down and
> settles before moving more down the ravine. *
>
> My Cabernet Sauvignon came through it best last
> year, BUT the Racoons got most of those. *At
> first I thought it was birds but then I observed
> that the grapes were being eaten in the center of
> the row. *Birds usually start at the ends. I had
> netting up but the racoons were too cleaver. *In
> five days, I trapped 5 racoons. *I am putting out
> the trap EARLY this year.
>
> I am going to put a bottom wire in about a foot or
> a foot and a half from the ground and that way I
> will have something to hook the net onto under
> the vines - also something to clamp the cold
> protection material onto.
>
> It is really gut wrenching to know that you have
> to maintain the vines this year even though you
> won't get much reward.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2008-04-21 03:23:22 -0700, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > > said:
>
> >> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>
> >>> Thanks Paul - I'll check this out.
>
> >>> It so happens that I live just up the hill
> >>> from the HQ of 'groworganic.com' (Peaceful
> >>> Valley Farm Supplies). I'll look through their
> >>> site for sugestions. I know they sell a spray
> >>> on polymer like stuff that supposedly prevents
> >>> transpiration, thereby reducing radiant heat
> >>> loss during a frost night.
>
> >>> Does the covering work?
>
> >> I don't know.
>
> >> I put in on this year for two days and nights
> >> because the temps were supposed to get down to
> >> 25
> >> degrees. *It actually only got down to about 29
> >> degrees one night.
>
> >> I would talk to the people at groworganic.
> >> They claim that a lot of grape growers use the
> >> material. *There are several grades of it.
>
> >> I have a set of catch wires about a foot above
> >> my cordon wire so I just draped it over these
> >> wires
> >> and attached with those springy paper clasps.
> >> I bought about 200 small ones at Staples fairly
> >> cheap. *The two ends did not quite reach the
> >> ground but the people I bought it from said it
> >> would still offer protection as long as it was
> >> close to the ground.
>
> >> I had a heart breaking season last year so I
> >> was
> >> not going to take a chance this year. *My bud
> >> break is excellent this year.
>
> >>> I thought about
> >>> coverings, but it didn't make sense to my
> >>> small brain. as best I understand it, frost is
> >>> the result of radiant heat loss into
> >>> sub-freezing air, resulting in frost-bitten
> >>> new shoots. does the vine transpire enough
> >>> heat that the cover can hold in to prevent the
> >>> frost freeze? Curious.
>
> >>> Anway, I need to put in a sprinkler system
> >>> this next season. I'll problably lose the
> >>> majority of the primary shoots this year -
> >>> which means a less than 50% crop. &*^$@#&*$
>
> >>> On 2008-04-20 13:07:04 -0700, "Paul E.
> >>> Lehmann" > said:
>
> >>>> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>
> >>>>> Anyone have additional thoughts on reducing
> >>>>> / eliminating frost damage?
>
> >>>>> Our vineyard is at about 2800' here in the
> >>>>> Sierra Foothills. April frosts, soon afer
> >>>>> budbreak, are an annual anxiety. Last night
> >>>>> was a cold one, and we've got some notable
> >>>>> frost damage this morning.
>
> >>>>> Tonight looks to be another cold one,
> >>>>> probably worse (no wind), so we're
> >>>>> irrigating heavy today, trying to get the
> >>>>> soil around the vines as saturated as
> >>>>> possible in an atempt to try and change the
> >>>>> soil heat radiation profile as much as
> >>>>> possible.
>
> >>>>> Anyone use any additional frost protection
> >>>>> strategies? Sprinklers and fans are not
> >>>>> possible for us jst now ($).
>
> >>>> I live in Central Maryland. *Last year I took
> >>>> a big hit from spring freeze so this year I
> >>>> ordered a row of covering material from:
>
> >>>> groworganic.com
> >>>> (888) 784-1722
>
> >>>> It was a 83 inches by 500 feet and the cost
> >>>> was about $167.
>
> >>>> They claim they sell to a lot of vineyards
> >>>> out there in California.
>
> >>>> I just have a small backyard vineyard of
> >>>> about 110
> >>>> vines. *It could get expensive if you have a
> >>>> lot under production.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

that is heartbreaking.
I feel for you.


I have a neighbor that got so frustruated with the little raccoons
that he ended up trading in his traps, for a .22

Sad, but it reflects his level of frustration.

>
> that is heartbreaking.
> I feel for you.
>
>
> I have a neighbor that got so frustruated with
> the little raccoons that he ended up trading in
> his traps, for a .22
>
> Sad, but it reflects his level of frustration.

Part of it was my own fault. I had a compost bin
near my last row. That was probably like ringing
the dinner bell. I feel now that the best
looking racoon is a dead one besides the road.
Same for deer.

I have seen a BIG fox in the vineyard on several
occasions. Perhaps he will put racoon on his
meal schedule. I use to see a LOT of rabbits.
Hardly any now.