I have a portuguese floor corker. It works great with natural corks. I
fill the bottle and allow excess wine to squirt out when I cork it. With
synthetic corks, the bottle explodes. Yike!! Do I need to leave a head
space when I use synthetic corks?

Andie Z

On Mar 9, 7:51 am, "Andiez" > wrote:
> ... Yike!! Do I need to leave a head
> space when I use synthetic corks?

You should leave 1/2 inch of ullage no matter what corks you are
using.

Greg

On Mar 9, 2:59 pm, wrote:
> On Mar 9, 7:51 am, "Andiez" > wrote:
>
> > ... Yike!! Do I need to leave a head
> > space when I use synthetic corks?
>
> You should leave 1/2 inch of ullage no matter what corks you are
> using.
>
> Greg

To be honest in my experience you sometimes need to leave more like
3/4" - 1" with a synthetic cork if you expect it to plug the neck
without soon rising above the rim. I presume it is their limited
permeability that causes this. With natural corks I have always
found 1/2" to be plenty. I have re-corked 6 or 7 wines when I'd left
1/2" gap before the synthetic so I try to be a little more liberal
with it now.

Jim

"Andiez" > wrote in message
news:vPSAj.3874$e52.1118@trndny01...
>I have a portuguese floor corker. It works great with natural corks. I
>fill the bottle and allow excess wine to squirt out when I cork it. With
>synthetic corks, the bottle explodes. Yike!! Do I need to leave a head
>space when I use synthetic corks?
>
> Andie Z
>

Back to basics. Air is compressible, liquids are not.

> To be honest in my experience you sometimes need to leave more like
> 3/4" - 1" with a synthetic cork if you expect it to plug the neck
> without soon rising above the rim. *

I've never done this, so if there is someone with exerience with this,
please join in: I have heard of placing a stainless steel wire
alongside the cork during the insertion of the cork. This leaves a
small space for the air being compressed by the cork's insertion to
pass by the cork. Then, the wire is removed, and since the cork is
still just freshly inserted, it re-expands to take up the space the
wire held, creating a full seal. I would think this is more useful
with a synthetic cork than a regualr cork.

As Frederick says below, "Air is compressible, liquids are not." Air
is also expandable, which means that the removal of the cork when
you're ready to drink is a lot easier with a little air space between
the wine and the cork.

Rob

On Mar 10, 6:29 pm, Rob > wrote:
> > To be honest in my experience you sometimes need to leave more like
> > 3/4" - 1" with a synthetic cork if you expect it to plug the neck
> > without soon rising above the rim.
>
> I've never done this, so if there is someone with exerience with this,
> please join in: I have heard of placing a stainless steel wire
> alongside the cork during the insertion of the cork. This leaves a
> small space for the air being compressed by the cork's insertion to
> pass by the cork. Then, the wire is removed, and since the cork is
> still just freshly inserted, it re-expands to take up the space the
> wire held, creating a full seal. I would think this is more useful
> with a synthetic cork than a regualr cork.
>
> As Frederick says below, "Air is compressible, liquids are not." Air
> is also expandable, which means that the removal of the cork when
> you're ready to drink is a lot easier with a little air space between
> the wine and the cork.
>
> Rob

I'd be interested to hear replies to that too. Frankly I have been
too concerned that I will etch a narrow channel down the side of my
cork (when I remove it) and create a leaker. Maybe even fishing line
would work. I'd be surprised if leaving 3/4" ullage was a critical
problem, but a simpler superior solution would be great

Jim

I hate exploding bottles also. here is what I learned:

I agree with Greg,
3/4 inch is what I shoot for. I spend a few minutes with a straw moving
wine around before I go into corking mode, but it worth it. I just put
the straw into over full ones and place thumb over top - then move the
wine to another bottle that needs the wine to get to 3/4 inch from top.

and, yes, I'm a Type A personality with a focus on detail. haha. Except
when a glass of wine is in my hand. Then I'm slow, relaxed and friendly.

DAve

jim wrote:
> On Mar 9, 2:59 pm, wrote:
>> On Mar 9, 7:51 am, "Andiez" > wrote:
>>
>>> ... Yike!! Do I need to leave a head
>>> space when I use synthetic corks?
>> You should leave 1/2 inch of ullage no matter what corks you are
>> using.
>>
>> Greg
>
> To be honest in my experience you sometimes need to leave more like
> 3/4" - 1" with a synthetic cork if you expect it to plug the neck
> without soon rising above the rim. I presume it is their limited
> permeability that causes this. With natural corks I have always
> found 1/2" to be plenty. I have re-corked 6 or 7 wines when I'd left
> 1/2" gap before the synthetic so I try to be a little more liberal
> with it now.
>
> Jim

On Mar 10, 7:38 pm, Dave Allison > wrote:
> I hate exploding bottles also. here is what I learned:
>
> I agree with Greg,
> 3/4 inch is what I shoot for. I spend a few minutes with a straw moving
> wine around before I go into corking mode, but it worth it. I just put
> the straw into over full ones and place thumb over top - then move the
> wine to another bottle that needs the wine to get to 3/4 inch from top.
>
> and, yes, I'm a Type A personality with a focus on detail. haha. Except
> when a glass of wine is in my hand. Then I'm slow, relaxed and friendly.
>
> DAve
>
> jim wrote:
> > On Mar 9, 2:59 pm, wrote:
> >> On Mar 9, 7:51 am, "Andiez" > wrote:
>
> >>> ... Yike!! Do I need to leave a head
> >>> space when I use synthetic corks?
> >> You should leave 1/2 inch of ullage no matter what corks you are
> >> using.
>
> >> Greg
>
> > To be honest in my experience you sometimes need to leave more like
> > 3/4" - 1" with a synthetic cork if you expect it to plug the neck
> > without soon rising above the rim. I presume it is their limited
> > permeability that causes this. With natural corks I have always
> > found 1/2" to be plenty. I have re-corked 6 or 7 wines when I'd left
> > 1/2" gap before the synthetic so I try to be a little more liberal
> > with it now.
>
> > Jim

Ha ha, that made me smile. I thought it was only me that crept around
with a straw...

On Mar 10, 11:41*am, jim > wrote:
> On Mar 10, 6:29 pm, Rob > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > To be honest in my experience you sometimes need to leave more like
> > > 3/4" - 1" with a synthetic cork if you expect it to plug the neck
> > > without soon rising above the rim.
>
> > I've never done this, so if there is someone with exerience with this,
> > please join in: *I have heard of placing a stainless steel wire
> > alongside the cork during the insertion of the cork. *This leaves a
> > small space for the air being compressed by the cork's insertion to
> > pass by the cork. *Then, the wire is removed, and since the cork is
> > still just freshly inserted, it re-expands to take up the space the
> > wire held, creating a full seal. *I would think this is more useful
> > with a synthetic cork than a regualr cork.
>
> > As Frederick says below, "Air is compressible, liquids are not." *Air
> > is also expandable, which means that the removal of the cork when
> > you're ready to drink is a lot easier with a little air space between
> > the wine and the cork.
>
> > Rob
>
> I'd be interested to hear replies to that too. *Frankly I have been
> too concerned that I will etch a narrow channel down the side of my
> cork (when I remove it) and create a leaker. *Maybe even fishing line
> would work. *I'd be surprised if leaving 3/4" ullage was a critical
> problem, but a simpler superior solution would be great
>
> Jim- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I used to do this with a fishing line but don't anymore, it just seemd
like too much work for little effect. One problem with the line was
that it'd break sometimes because it got chewed up by the corker, and
I'd have to pull the cork and repeat the try with another. And yes, it
could leave a channel in the cork, particularly a synthetic one
because those are less malleable.

Pp

On Mar 11, 12:15 am, pp > wrote:
> On Mar 10, 11:41 am, jim > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 10, 6:29 pm, Rob > wrote:
>
> > > > To be honest in my experience you sometimes need to leave more like
> > > > 3/4" - 1" with a synthetic cork if you expect it to plug the neck
> > > > without soon rising above the rim.
>
> > > I've never done this, so if there is someone with exerience with this,
> > > please join in: I have heard of placing a stainless steel wire
> > > alongside the cork during the insertion of the cork. This leaves a
> > > small space for the air being compressed by the cork's insertion to
> > > pass by the cork. Then, the wire is removed, and since the cork is
> > > still just freshly inserted, it re-expands to take up the space the
> > > wire held, creating a full seal. I would think this is more useful
> > > with a synthetic cork than a regualr cork.
>
> > > As Frederick says below, "Air is compressible, liquids are not." Air
> > > is also expandable, which means that the removal of the cork when
> > > you're ready to drink is a lot easier with a little air space between
> > > the wine and the cork.
>
> > > Rob
>
> > I'd be interested to hear replies to that too. Frankly I have been
> > too concerned that I will etch a narrow channel down the side of my
> > cork (when I remove it) and create a leaker. Maybe even fishing line
> > would work. I'd be surprised if leaving 3/4" ullage was a critical
> > problem, but a simpler superior solution would be great
>
> > Jim- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I used to do this with a fishing line but don't anymore, it just seemd
> like too much work for little effect. One problem with the line was
> that it'd break sometimes because it got chewed up by the corker, and
> I'd have to pull the cork and repeat the try with another. And yes, it
> could leave a channel in the cork, particularly a synthetic one
> because those are less malleable.
>
> Pp

Ah! Great feedback Pp thanks for that

I will settle for a tiny bit more ullage as a best solution for
synthetics...

Many thanks, Jim

Natural corks take longer to decompress and return close to their
original diameter and the pressure created will leak out over time if
you leave the bottles upright./ That is why the advice is to store
them upright for a day after corking. Synthetics bounce back
immediately and seal the bottle as they are inserted making them the
piston and the bottle the cylinder. They will never leak any of the
bottling pressure out and I have always wondered if that is the reason
sulfite levels measured in a synthetic corked bottle are often lower,
they have more oxygen to scavenge. Sumpremecorq recommended either
vacuum bottling or the fishing line trick for homewinemakers. If you
use a decent test line and pull it slow it could work. String
trimmer line might work better. I use Nomacorc and don't bother, I
have wines under them for 3 to 4 years and have no complaints.

As an aside, anyone with a brass jaw corker needs to be careful with
synthetics, you need to examine the seal area closely to make sure
your corker is not scoring the corc and creating an imperfect seal.
Natural corks are much more tolerant. If you are getting scoring the
jaws can be adjusted. Iit's a pain to do and the jaws are under a lot
of pressure, if you are not mechanically inclined you shouldn't take
one apart.

It's good practice to leave 1/2 to 3/4" headspace on wines corked with
anything to allow temperature changes to be absorbed within that
headspace. A corked wine bottle is a big thermometer....

Joe

> String trimmer line might work better.

Be very careful that the string trimmer line doesn't have raised
"cutting edges," as that will no doubt score the cork!

On Mar 11, 3:23 pm, Rob > wrote:
> > String trimmer line might work better.
>
> Be very careful that the string trimmer line doesn't have raised
> "cutting edges," as that will no doubt score the cork!

Out of interest, has anyone actual read or conducted studies showing
that 3/4" - 1" of ullage produces an inferior result than 1/2"?

If there is no discernable difference, surely a little more ullage is
the simplest bet?

Jim

jim c wrote:
> On Mar 11, 3:23 pm, Rob > wrote:
>>> String trimmer line might work better.
>> Be very careful that the string trimmer line doesn't have raised
>> "cutting edges," as that will no doubt score the cork!
>
> Out of interest, has anyone actual read or conducted studies showing
> that 3/4" - 1" of ullage produces an inferior result than 1/2"?
>
> If there is no discernable difference, surely a little more ullage is
> the simplest bet?
>
> Jim

Not here. My wine making partner and I usually bottle about 12 cases at
a time and eyeball it. Well he eyeballs 'em and I cork 'em. Probably
fall somewhere in the 1/2 to 3/4 range and no I can't taste the difference.

Steve

On Mar 12, 2:48 pm, Steve Landis > wrote:
> jim c wrote:
> > On Mar 11, 3:23 pm, Rob > wrote:
> >>> String trimmer line might work better.
> >> Be very careful that the string trimmer line doesn't have raised
> >> "cutting edges," as that will no doubt score the cork!
>
> > Out of interest, has anyone actual read or conducted studies showing
> > that 3/4" - 1" of ullage produces an inferior result than 1/2"?
>
> > If there is no discernable difference, surely a little more ullage is
> > the simplest bet?
>
> > Jim
>
> Not here. My wine making partner and I usually bottle about 12 cases at
> a time and eyeball it. Well he eyeballs 'em and I cork 'em. Probably
> fall somewhere in the 1/2 to 3/4 range and no I can't taste the difference.
>
> Steve

Good to hear Steve thanks. I couldn't tell the difference so far
between those I bottled under synthetic with 3/4"+ ullage and the ones
I bottled under natural corks with 1/2" but then none of my wines are
over 18 months yet. I do bottle some under each with a view to seeing
eventually if I think I can tell any difference, but I think with my
newbie nose it is unlikely...

Jim

As Frederick says below, "Air is compressible, liquids are not." Air
is also expandable, which means that the removal of the cork when
you're ready to drink is a lot easier with a little air space between
the wine and the cork.

Rob

Good point. No idea how Andie is going to get those corks back
out unless he drills a small hole down through the cork to provide
an "airway" to let in some air while pulling the corks. Interesting
problem............ ;o)

Frederick

On Mar 13, 6:36*am, "frederick ploegman" >
wrote:
> As Frederick says below, "Air is compressible, liquids are not." *Air
> is also expandable, which means that the removal of the cork when
> you're ready to drink is a lot easier with a little air space between
> the wine and the cork.
>
> Rob
>
> Good point. *No idea how Andie is going to get those corks back
> out unless he drills a small hole down through the cork to provide
> an "airway" to let in some air while pulling the corks. *Interesting
> problem............ *;o)
>
> * * * * Frederick

Does anyone fill the bottle ullage with inert gas?
I have about 15 gallons to bottle in about 90 days, and plan to top
them all off with argon.

Wayne Harris wrote:

> On Mar 13, 6:36*am, "frederick ploegman"
> > wrote:
>> As Frederick says below, "Air is compressible,
>> liquids are not." *Air is also expandable,
>> which means that the removal of the cork when
>> you're ready to drink is a lot easier with a
>> little air space between the wine and the cork.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> Good point. *No idea how Andie is going to get
>> those corks back out unless he drills a small
>> hole down through the cork to provide an
>> "airway" to let in some air while pulling the
>> corks. *Interesting problem............ *;o)
>>
>> Frederick
>
> Does anyone fill the bottle ullage with inert
> gas? I have about 15 gallons to bottle in about
> 90 days, and plan to top them all off with
> argon.

I know that at least some if not most commercial
wineries use Nitrogen which would be cheaper than
Argon. Argon does carry some risk if used in
very confining environments.

> > Does anyone fill the bottle ullage with inert
> > gas? I have about 15 gallons to bottle in about
> > 90 days, and plan to top them all off with
> > argon.
>
> I know that at least some if not most commercial
> wineries use Nitrogen which would be cheaper than
> Argon. *Argon does carry some risk if used in
> very confining environments

On wines I expect to store for a while, I get one of those inert-gas
cans for wine preservation and give each bottle a shot before
corking.

Rob

Really? Do you find a difference? Anyone else do this?
Very interesting. So you shoot into the top 1/2 to 3/4 inch of space a
inert-gas shot - and cork. how do you do that? Like within a few
seconds? or once you spray, it's heavy so no hurry? or within a second?

DAve

Rob wrote:
>>> Does anyone fill the bottle ullage with inert
>>> gas? I have about 15 gallons to bottle in about
>>> 90 days, and plan to top them all off with
>>> argon.
>> I know that at least some if not most commercial
>> wineries use Nitrogen which would be cheaper than
>> Argon. Argon does carry some risk if used in
>> very confining environments
>
> On wines I expect to store for a while, I get one of those inert-gas
> cans for wine preservation and give each bottle a shot before
> corking.
>
> Rob

> Really? Do you find a difference? Anyone else do this?
> Very interesting. So you shoot into the top 1/2 to 3/4 inch of space a
> inert-gas shot - and cork. how do you do that? Like within a few
> seconds? or once you spray, it's heavy so no hurry? or within a second?

I've seen a slow increase in the quality of my wine, but I've chalked
that up to learning more and more how to do things successfully (and
thanks to all of you on this board for all the help), not to the
gassing of the bottle.

I haven't done any science on this - no direct comparisons, etc. - so
I can't tell you of any particular difference I've seen. I've just
figured that the relatively less oxygen the better. Since I do wine
in carboy-size lots, I'll fill a carboy-size load of bottles (about
30), then I'll top the bottles with the inert-gas shot, then I'll
start corking. There may be a very different amount of the shot left
in the first bottle corked than the last, but in both cases to some
level I've dropped the oxygen percentage. If I had someone helping me
bottle I could do this more consistenly, but I do it by myself so this
is the most efficient way I've found to carry this out.

By the way, I also use it to blanket the top of my carboys following
taking samples, racking, etc. Again, it's not completely eliminating
oxygen, but it lowers the percentage.

Anyone else?

Rob