There are a bunch of choices for adding a bit of oak to wines and
meads, such as barrels, cubes, chips, liquid essence, and powder.
There are also numerous choices in oak varieties, such as French,
Hungarian, and American.

I'm curious what are the favorite methods employed by members of this
forum. How do you prefer to age with oak and what variety do you like
the best.

From my wine tasting ventures, I've gotten pretty good at picking out
wines that are aged on American oak. It has what I can only describe
as a "sharper" oak flavor. It seems that the Australians are still
fond of American oak, but winemakers elsewhere tend to go with French
or Hungarian oak; these varieties have a much "rounder" flavor. Even
in Missouri, they don't age on much American oak, and that's where
much of the American oak comes from.

I've been aging on a mix of oak varieties in chip and cube form. I'm
still focusing on other aspects of winemaking so I haven't given oak
too much thought.

I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)

Greg

> I've been aging on a mix of oak varieties in chip and cube form. I'm
> still focusing on other aspects of winemaking so I haven't given oak
> too much thought.
>
> I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>
> Greg

Greg,
That idiot has been around forever, it's like spam at work... He
seems to hit rec.crafts.brewing first and usually turns up here a few
days later.

As to oak the only oak I think isn't worth any effort is an untoasted
barrel and the sawdust. If it's not properly toasted it ruins wine,
it can be a nightmare. The dust is too easy to overdo and it seems a
bit green to me.

I feel beans are superior to chips but not by much. If someone is on
a tight budget chips are the way to go. I prefer medium heavy toast
but like all things it's just my preference for taste. I really don't
think French anything are worth the premium price, the European taste
the same to me. I like American oak in reds, I usually add European
to white. My rates are about 1 ounce per gallon on a red and about
1/3 to 1/6 that on white and mead. Toasting seems to be the opposite
of toasting level, medium is more aggressive and heavy is more mellow
in my opinion.

I have never done the tea thing but I'm sure it works just fine. I
buy oak in large quantities, it stores just fine for years. I don't
think I've had any for more than 5 years but I store things in a dry
area and smell anything other than sulfite before it hits my wine.

I rinse my oak but never boil, that is just bad advice from long ago
in older texts.


I guess your next post will be corks?


Joe

wrote:

>
>
> There are a bunch of choices for adding a bit of
> oak to wines and meads, such as barrels, cubes,
> chips, liquid essence, and powder. There are
> also numerous choices in oak varieties, such as
> French, Hungarian, and American.
>
> I'm curious what are the favorite methods
> employed by members of this forum. How do you
> prefer to age with oak and what variety do you
> like the best.
>
> From my wine tasting ventures, I've gotten
> pretty good at picking out wines that are aged
> on American oak. It has what I can only describe
> as a "sharper" oak flavor. It seems that the
> Australians are still fond of American oak, but
> winemakers elsewhere tend to go with French or
> Hungarian oak; these varieties have a much
> "rounder" flavor. Even in Missouri, they don't
> age on much American oak, and that's where much
> of the American oak comes from.
>
> I've been aging on a mix of oak varieties in
> chip and cube form. I'm still focusing on other
> aspects of winemaking so I haven't given oak too
> much thought.
>
> I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5
> Persecution guy. :-)
>
> Greg

I recently have tried one of the "Oak Spirals".

https://www.thebarrelmill.com/faq.html

It seems to be doing a VERY good job (French oak).
I am using one of the spirals that is suppose to
be good for three gallons of wine but I am using
it in a 15 gallon demijohn. I am using another
one in a spent 10 gallon barrel. It seems to be
imparting enough oak for me. The thing about the
spirals is that they will impart the oak very
fast as they say in their advertisement. For the
barrel, I screwed a stainless steel hook into the
bottom of the silicon bung and used a thin piece
of stainless steel wire to attach the spiral to
the hook on the bung. This way, I can remove the
spiral anytime I want.

If I am aging less than a barrel, I find I prefer using oak staves -
inserts about two inches wide by a foot long. These drop easily into a
stainless steel keg or, if split lengthwise, fit easily into a carboy.
I use French medium toast for almost everything I oak.




On 2008-01-10 19:13:37 -0800, said:

>
>
> There are a bunch of choices for adding a bit of oak to wines and
> meads, such as barrels, cubes, chips, liquid essence, and powder.
> There are also numerous choices in oak varieties, such as French,
> Hungarian, and American.
>
> I'm curious what are the favorite methods employed by members of this
> forum. How do you prefer to age with oak and what variety do you like
> the best.
>
> From my wine tasting ventures, I've gotten pretty good at picking out
> wines that are aged on American oak. It has what I can only describe
> as a "sharper" oak flavor. It seems that the Australians are still
> fond of American oak, but winemakers elsewhere tend to go with French
> or Hungarian oak; these varieties have a much "rounder" flavor. Even
> in Missouri, they don't age on much American oak, and that's where
> much of the American oak comes from.
>
> I've been aging on a mix of oak varieties in chip and cube form. I'm
> still focusing on other aspects of winemaking so I haven't given oak
> too much thought.
>
> I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>
> Greg

Paul E. Lehmann > wrote:

> I recently have tried one of the "Oak Spirals".
>
> https://www.thebarrelmill.com/faq.html

An interesting website. Thanks, Paul.

> It seems to be doing a VERY good job (French oak).
> I am using one of the spirals that is suppose to
> be good for three gallons of wine but I am using
> it in a 15 gallon demijohn. I am using another
> one in a spent 10 gallon barrel. It seems to be
> imparting enough oak for me. The thing about the
> spirals is that they will impart the oak very
> fast as they say in their advertisement. For the
> barrel, I screwed a stainless steel hook into the
> bottom of the silicon bung and used a thin piece
> of stainless steel wire to attach the spiral to
> the hook on the bung. This way, I can remove the
> spiral anytime I want.

Thanks for this information. The price seems in
line with oak chips. It appears that one needs to
Quality Assurance Test ever few weeks to decide
when the oak flavoring is right.

Dick

Dick Adams wrote:

> Paul E. Lehmann > wrote:
>
>> I recently have tried one of the "Oak Spirals".
>>
>> https://www.thebarrelmill.com/faq.html
>
> An interesting website. Thanks, Paul.
>
>> It seems to be doing a VERY good job (French
>> oak). I am using one of the spirals that is
>> suppose to be good for three gallons of wine
>> but I am using
>> it in a 15 gallon demijohn. I am using another
>> one in a spent 10 gallon barrel. It seems to be
>> imparting enough oak for me. The thing about
>> the spirals is that they will impart the oak
>> very
>> fast as they say in their advertisement. For
>> the barrel, I screwed a stainless steel hook
>> into the bottom of the silicon bung and used a
>> thin piece of stainless steel wire to attach
>> the spiral to
>> the hook on the bung. This way, I can remove
>> the spiral anytime I want.
>
> Thanks for this information. The price seems in
> line with oak chips. It appears that one needs
> to Quality Assurance Test ever few weeks to
> decide when the oak flavoring is right.
>
> Dick

Yep, one of the advantages - need for more quality
control

It is also possible to attach a small stainless
steel wire to one end of the spiral and thread
the other end up through an airlock. This way
you don't have to fish it out of the carboy.

Stainless Infusion tubes are also made but they
are a bit pricey (about $50 but a one time
expense) and they are too large in diameter to
fit into a small barrel or carboy - I have tried
this approach also. I believe they will fit into
the opening of a demijohn.

Of course if you have a large enough diameter bung
hole (my 30 gallon barrel does) you could put the
spiral into the infusion tube. That way you would
not have to fool with adding a hook to the bottom
of the bung and hang the spiral with a stainless
wire. Infusion tubes are too long for 30 gallon
or smaller barrels but you can cut off the excess
length with a hack saw.

On 1/10/2008 10:13 PM, wrote:
>
> There are a bunch of choices for adding a bit of oak to wines and
> meads, such as barrels, cubes, chips, liquid essence, and powder.
> There are also numerous choices in oak varieties, such as French,
> Hungarian, and American.
>
> I'm curious what are the favorite methods employed by members of this
> forum. How do you prefer to age with oak and what variety do you like
> the best.

I prefer French oak, medium toast. I add it by the fluid cup measure to
my wines and meads, Stavin beads. One cup per 5 gallons of red wine,
less for meads or white wines. More for very sturdy red wines. I very
much enjoy the character, much more so than American oak. I have little
experience with Hungarian oak. My spouse and I refer to the flavor
characteristic of American oak as 'plank', and it takes several years
for that flavor to age out to the point at which it is enjoyable.
French oak is vanilla and soft and flavorful right from the start.

> I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>
> Greg

Good luck with that.
May I suggest a kill file?


Cheers,
Ken

On Jan 12, 9:46 am, mail box > wrote:
> On 1/10/2008 10:13 PM, wrote:
>
>
>
> > There are a bunch of choices for adding a bit of oak to wines and
> > meads, such as barrels, cubes, chips, liquid essence, and powder.
> > There are also numerous choices in oak varieties, such as French,
> > Hungarian, and American.
>
> > I'm curious what are the favorite methods employed by members of this
> > forum. How do you prefer to age with oak and what variety do you like
> > the best.
>
> I prefer French oak, medium toast. I add it by the fluid cup measure to
> my wines and meads, Stavin beads. One cup per 5 gallons of red wine,
> less for meads or white wines. More for very sturdy red wines. I very
> much enjoy the character, much more so than American oak. I have little
> experience with Hungarian oak. My spouse and I refer to the flavor
> characteristic of American oak as 'plank', and it takes several years
> for that flavor to age out to the point at which it is enjoyable.
> French oak is vanilla and soft and flavorful right from the start.
>
> > I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>
> > Greg
>
> Good luck with that.
> May I suggest a kill file?
>
> Cheers,
> Ken

Here's one for used up oak....while still wet, put it in a sandwich
bag and freeze it till next time you've got the grill going....put the
oak (minus the plastic bag ) in a foil pouch and put it in the
grill for excellent smoke flavor.

On Jan 16, 5:10 am, wrote:
> On Jan 12, 9:46 am, mail box > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 1/10/2008 10:13 PM, wrote:
>
> > > There are a bunch of choices for adding a bit ofoakto wines and
> > > meads, such as barrels,cubes,chips, liquid essence, and powder.
> > > There are also numerous choices inoakvarieties, such as French,
> > > Hungarian, and American.
>
> > > I'm curious what are the favorite methods employed by members of this
> > > forum. How do you prefer to age withoakand what variety do you like
> > > the best.
>
> > I prefer Frenchoak, medium toast. I add it by the fluid cup measure to
> > my wines and meads, Stavin beads. One cup per 5 gallons of red wine,
> > less for meads or white wines. More for very sturdy red wines. I very
> > much enjoy the character, much more so than Americanoak. I have little
> > experience with Hungarianoak. My spouse and I refer to the flavor
> > characteristic of Americanoakas 'plank', and it takes several years
> > for that flavor to age out to the point at which it is enjoyable.
> > Frenchoakis vanilla and soft and flavorful right from the start.
>
> > > I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>
> > > Greg
>
> > Good luck with that.
> > May I suggest a kill file?
>
> > Cheers,
> > Ken
>
> Here's one for used upoak....while still wet, put it in a sandwich
> bag and freeze it till next time you've got the grill going....put theoak(minus the plastic bag ) in a foil pouch and put it in the
> grill for excellent smoke flavor.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)

Greg"

I do hope so, I already have several 'outlook express rules' running
to filter the poor soul out...

I was going to post a fresh thread but thought you might not mind me
jacking this one to ask a tangential question or two...

I live in the UK (yes its UK Jim again with his 'Little Britain' tales
of woe ) And I find it hard to get some products here which I would
like to try. I forgot to ask my American dwelling friend to bring
some over for me when he visited recently so....

1) Do any of the UK wine-makers who visit this group know where I
might get oak beans, spirals, cubes or staves in the UK? Oak chips
and liquid oak seem to be the only types available on the internet or
in shops here. I have tried oak-chips and they seem to do the job ok,
though I have under-oaked so far.

2) I have read a few past entries in this group saying that it is hard
to tell much difference between some oak styles and methods. DO y ou
need a very advanced nose to tell much difference between the French/
Hungarian/US oaks and size of oak pieces (chips/beans/etc)? If not,
maybe I should stop mithering and just use oak chips or try liquid
oak.

3) If you use larger oaking pieces such as cubes, staves or spirals;
can you really dry them out, toast them and use thedm again? I
wouldn't try doing that with the oak chips, though I could throw them
onto the barbecue next summer...

Many thanks for any info offerings, Jim in the UK (mostly harmless)

merrydown > wrote:
>2) I have read a few past entries in this group saying that it is hard
>to tell much difference between some oak styles and methods. DO y ou
>need a very advanced nose to tell much difference between the French/
>Hungarian/US oaks and size of oak pieces (chips/beans/etc)? If not,
>maybe I should stop mithering and just use oak chips or try liquid
>oak.

I personally haven't been able to tell the difference
between French oak in various forms (cube, chips) and
Hungarian in chip form. Both added a pleasant round/smooth
vanilla character to mead. The US oak was a different matter
althogther, though I don't know what form the meadster used.
based on that one experience, and having tasted beer aged on
American oak, I wouldn't use it myself.
--

Joel Plutchak "They're not people, they're HIPPIES!"
$LASTNAME at VERYWARMmail.com - Eric Cartman

Has anyone in the group used that liquid stuff ?? How was it ??

Frederick


"merrydown" > wrote in message
...
> On Jan 16, 5:10 am, wrote:
>> On Jan 12, 9:46 am, mail box > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 1/10/2008 10:13 PM, wrote:
>>
>> > > There are a bunch of choices for adding a bit ofoakto wines and
>> > > meads, such as barrels,cubes,chips, liquid essence, and powder.
>> > > There are also numerous choices inoakvarieties, such as French,
>> > > Hungarian, and American.
>>
>> > > I'm curious what are the favorite methods employed by members of this
>> > > forum. How do you prefer to age withoakand what variety do you like
>> > > the best.
>>
>> > I prefer Frenchoak, medium toast. I add it by the fluid cup measure to
>> > my wines and meads, Stavin beads. One cup per 5 gallons of red wine,
>> > less for meads or white wines. More for very sturdy red wines. I very
>> > much enjoy the character, much more so than Americanoak. I have little
>> > experience with Hungarianoak. My spouse and I refer to the flavor
>> > characteristic of Americanoakas 'plank', and it takes several years
>> > for that flavor to age out to the point at which it is enjoyable.
>> > Frenchoakis vanilla and soft and flavorful right from the start.
>>
>> > > I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>>
>> > > Greg
>>
>> > Good luck with that.
>> > May I suggest a kill file?
>>
>> > Cheers,
>> > Ken
>>
>> Here's one for used upoak....while still wet, put it in a sandwich
>> bag and freeze it till next time you've got the grill going....put
>> theoak(minus the plastic bag ) in a foil pouch and put it in the
>> grill for excellent smoke flavor.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>
> Greg"
>
> I do hope so, I already have several 'outlook express rules' running
> to filter the poor soul out...
>
> I was going to post a fresh thread but thought you might not mind me
> jacking this one to ask a tangential question or two...
>
> I live in the UK (yes its UK Jim again with his 'Little Britain' tales
> of woe ) And I find it hard to get some products here which I would
> like to try. I forgot to ask my American dwelling friend to bring
> some over for me when he visited recently so....
>
> 1) Do any of the UK wine-makers who visit this group know where I
> might get oak beans, spirals, cubes or staves in the UK? Oak chips
> and liquid oak seem to be the only types available on the internet or
> in shops here. I have tried oak-chips and they seem to do the job ok,
> though I have under-oaked so far.
>
> 2) I have read a few past entries in this group saying that it is hard
> to tell much difference between some oak styles and methods. DO y ou
> need a very advanced nose to tell much difference between the French/
> Hungarian/US oaks and size of oak pieces (chips/beans/etc)? If not,
> maybe I should stop mithering and just use oak chips or try liquid
> oak.
>
> 3) If you use larger oaking pieces such as cubes, staves or spirals;
> can you really dry them out, toast them and use thedm again? I
> wouldn't try doing that with the oak chips, though I could throw them
> onto the barbecue next summer...
>
> Many thanks for any info offerings, Jim in the UK (mostly harmless)

On 1/27/2008 6:22 AM, merrydown wrote:
[thread snipped]

> I was going to post a fresh thread but thought you might not mind me
> jacking this one to ask a tangential question or two...
>
> I live in the UK (yes its UK Jim again with his 'Little Britain' tales
> of woe ) And I find it hard to get some products here which I would
> like to try. I forgot to ask my American dwelling friend to bring
> some over for me when he visited recently so....
>
> 1) Do any of the UK wine-makers who visit this group know where I
> might get oak beans, spirals, cubes or staves in the UK? Oak chips
> and liquid oak seem to be the only types available on the internet or
> in shops here. I have tried oak-chips and they seem to do the job ok,
> though I have under-oaked so far.
>
> 2) I have read a few past entries in this group saying that it is hard
> to tell much difference between some oak styles and methods. DO y ou
> need a very advanced nose to tell much difference between the French/
> Hungarian/US oaks and size of oak pieces (chips/beans/etc)? If not,
> maybe I should stop mithering and just use oak chips or try liquid
> oak.

I don't make any claims to having the nose of a sommelier, but I can
tell the difference between French and American oak fairly
easily,comparing the effects in the wines of Stavin oak beads. French
oak is softer, rounder, smoother and more vanilla while American oak is
jagged and rough edged. I know those descriptions don't convey well,
but that's as best as I can do. My spouse and I have a semi-secret code
word for when we're tasting wine and it has been over oaked with
American oak (or perhaps under aged, as it does mellow with time). We
call the flavor "plank", and it's not meant as any kind of compliment.


> 3) If you use larger oaking pieces such as cubes, staves or spirals;
> can you really dry them out, toast them and use thedm again? I
> wouldn't try doing that with the oak chips, though I could throw them
> onto the barbecue next summer...

I would never try to reuse oak beads, they are made to a size which
allows all of the oak to be extracted. I have no experience with staves
or spirals, but unless transferred immediately between batches I'd fear
the possibility of contamination much more than I'd try to avoid the
expense of buying enough oak for each batch I wished to oak.

>
> Many thanks for any info offerings, Jim in the UK (mostly harmless)

The Vogons will be arriving soon to build their interstellar bypass...


Cheers,
Ken

I make my own oak extract.

Take some cubes or chips and submerge them in Wodka.
Leave it for at least 2 months, and that is it.

Now if you have a finished wine of which you think
it might benefit from oak take a glass and
put some drops of the extract in. You will immediately know if
the wine will benefit from oak.
From that point on you decide to put the chips in and age the wine
or put the concentrate in.

Good results so far.......

I wrote about the process illustrated with pictures
on my web-log look in the archive in the november 2007 entry
or follow this link:
http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2007/1...k-extract.html

Luc




frederick ploegman wrote:

> Has anyone in the group used that liquid stuff ?? How was it ??
>
> Frederick
>
>
> "merrydown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Jan 16, 5:10 am, wrote:
>>> On Jan 12, 9:46 am, mail box > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On 1/10/2008 10:13 PM, wrote:
>>>
>>> > > There are a bunch of choices for adding a bit ofoakto wines and
>>> > > meads, such as barrels,cubes,chips, liquid essence, and powder.
>>> > > There are also numerous choices inoakvarieties, such as French,
>>> > > Hungarian, and American.
>>>
>>> > > I'm curious what are the favorite methods employed by members of
>>> > > this forum. How do you prefer to age withoakand what variety do you
>>> > > like the best.
>>>
>>> > I prefer Frenchoak, medium toast. I add it by the fluid cup measure
>>> > to
>>> > my wines and meads, Stavin beads. One cup per 5 gallons of red wine,
>>> > less for meads or white wines. More for very sturdy red wines. I
>>> > very
>>> > much enjoy the character, much more so than Americanoak. I have
>>> > little
>>> > experience with Hungarianoak. My spouse and I refer to the flavor
>>> > characteristic of Americanoakas 'plank', and it takes several years
>>> > for that flavor to age out to the point at which it is enjoyable.
>>> > Frenchoakis vanilla and soft and flavorful right from the start.
>>>
>>> > > I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>>>
>>> > > Greg
>>>
>>> > Good luck with that.
>>> > May I suggest a kill file?
>>>
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Ken
>>>
>>> Here's one for used upoak....while still wet, put it in a sandwich
>>> bag and freeze it till next time you've got the grill going....put
>>> theoak(minus the plastic bag ) in a foil pouch and put it in the
>>> grill for excellent smoke flavor.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> "I think I'm starting to get ahead of the MI5 Persecution guy. :-)
>>
>> Greg"
>>
>> I do hope so, I already have several 'outlook express rules' running
>> to filter the poor soul out...
>>
>> I was going to post a fresh thread but thought you might not mind me
>> jacking this one to ask a tangential question or two...
>>
>> I live in the UK (yes its UK Jim again with his 'Little Britain' tales
>> of woe ) And I find it hard to get some products here which I would
>> like to try. I forgot to ask my American dwelling friend to bring
>> some over for me when he visited recently so....
>>
>> 1) Do any of the UK wine-makers who visit this group know where I
>> might get oak beans, spirals, cubes or staves in the UK? Oak chips
>> and liquid oak seem to be the only types available on the internet or
>> in shops here. I have tried oak-chips and they seem to do the job ok,
>> though I have under-oaked so far.
>>
>> 2) I have read a few past entries in this group saying that it is hard
>> to tell much difference between some oak styles and methods. DO y ou
>> need a very advanced nose to tell much difference between the French/
>> Hungarian/US oaks and size of oak pieces (chips/beans/etc)? If not,
>> maybe I should stop mithering and just use oak chips or try liquid
>> oak.
>>
>> 3) If you use larger oaking pieces such as cubes, staves or spirals;
>> can you really dry them out, toast them and use thedm again? I
>> wouldn't try doing that with the oak chips, though I could throw them
>> onto the barbecue next summer...
>>
>> Many thanks for any info offerings, Jim in the UK (mostly harmless)

--
www.wijmaker.web-log.nl

merrydown > wrote:
> On Jan 16, 5:10 am, wrote:
> > On Jan 12, 9:46 am, mail box > wrote:
> > > On 1/10/2008 10:13 PM, wrote:
> > [ . . . ]
> 1) Do any of the UK wine-makers who visit this group know where I
> might get oak beans, spirals, cubes or staves in the UK? Oak chips
> and liquid oak seem to be the only types available on the internet or
> in shops here. I have tried oak-chips and they seem to do the job ok,
> though I have under-oaked so far. [ . . . ]

Check out some distilleries in Scotland for oak staves.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~