I'm interested in finding out from other growers what their fertilizing
practicies are;

* When do you fertilize?
* With what fertilizers?
* How much?
* How applied?

Also helpful to know where you are soil type, how you determine your
fertilizing needs, etc.

AxisOfBeagles wrote:

> I'm interested in finding out from other growers
> what their fertilizing practicies are;
>
> * When do you fertilize?
> * With what fertilizers?
> * How much?
> * How applied?
>
> Also helpful to know where you are soil type,
> how you determine your fertilizing needs, etc.

I base my program on soil and petiole sample
analysis and go by their (Penn State)
recommendations

And when do you fertilize, Paul? Is it annual, bi-annual, or more
often? Do you apply through your drip, direct to soil, foliar spray, or
some combination?



On 2007-12-26 13:32:53 -0800, "Paul E. Lehmann" > said:

> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>
>> I'm interested in finding out from other growers
>> what their fertilizing practicies are;
>>
>> * When do you fertilize?
>> * With what fertilizers?
>> * How much?
>> * How applied?
>>
>> Also helpful to know where you are soil type,
>> how you determine your fertilizing needs, etc.
>
> I base my program on soil and petiole sample
> analysis and go by their (Penn State)
> recommendations

AxisOfBeagles wrote:

> And when do you fertilize, Paul? Is it annual,
> bi-annual, or more often? Do you apply through
> your drip, direct to soil, foliar spray, or some
> combination?
>
>
>
> On 2007-12-26 13:32:53 -0800, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > said:
>
>> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>>
>>> I'm interested in finding out from other
>>> growers what their fertilizing practicies are;
>>>
>>> * When do you fertilize?
>>> * With what fertilizers?
>>> * How much?
>>> * How applied?
>>>
>>> Also helpful to know where you are soil type,
>>> how you determine your fertilizing needs, etc.
>>
>> I base my program on soil and petiole sample
>> analysis and go by their (Penn State)
>> recommendations

I believe it is best to fertilize in early fall
since the roots are still growing even though
there is no top growth. I apply direct to soil.
I am not an expert. It is best to get with your
county ag office.

On Dec 26, 7:53 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
> > And when do you fertilize, Paul? Is it annual,
> > bi-annual, or more often? Do you apply through
> > your drip, direct to soil, foliar spray, or some
> > combination?
>
> > On 2007-12-26 13:32:53 -0800, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > > said:
>
> >> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>
> >>> I'm interested in finding out from other
> >>> growers what their fertilizing practicies are;
>
> >>> * When do you fertilize?
> >>> * With what fertilizers?
> >>> * How much?
> >>> * How applied?
>
> >>> Also helpful to know where you are soil type,
> >>> how you determine your fertilizing needs, etc.
>
> >> I base my program on soil and petiole sample
> >> analysis and go by their (Penn State)
> >> recommendations
>
> I believe it is best to fertilize in early fall
> since the roots are still growing even though
> there is no top growth. I apply direct to soil.
> I am not an expert. It is best to get with your
> county ag office.

Don't fertilize in the fall. You may encourage late growth or delayed
dormancy which greatly increases the risk of freeze damage. Most
recommendations are for an early spring (March - April) application
with maybe subsequent applications if needed to increase vine vigor,
but never after early July. Check with your local extension service
and if they can't provide a good answer, there are recommendations
available online.

I am indeed in touch with my county ag department, as well as a number
of commercial vineyards - but I'm very interested in the diversity of
opinions & practices on this topic - as evidenced by the reply you got
to your "best in the early fall" post.

Thanks for the input.

R

On 2007-12-26 17:53:26 -0800, "Paul E. Lehmann" > said:
>
> I believe it is best to fertilize in early fall
> since the roots are still growing even though
> there is no top growth. I apply direct to soil.
> I am not an expert. It is best to get with your
> county ag office.

On Dec 26, 12:55*pm, AxisOfBeagles > wrote:
> I'm interested in finding out from other growers what their fertilizing
> practicies are;
>
> * When do you fertilize?
> * With what fertilizers?
> * How much?
> * How applied?
>
> Also helpful to know where you are soil type, how you determine your
> fertilizing needs, etc.

I do soil testing annually in late winter and apply half recommended
fertilizer in mid Spring, and half the end of Spring.
Apply fertilizer annually at rate recommended by soil testing lab -
through Unicversity of Missouri extension service.
I use soil application, if I had more immediate need I would do foliar
applications.
Location in NE Missouri, Monroe County. Soil is sandy loam

shbailey wrote:

> On Dec 26, 7:53 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > wrote:
>> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>> > And when do you fertilize, Paul? Is it
>> > annual, bi-annual, or more often? Do you
>> > apply through your drip, direct to soil,
>> > foliar spray, or some combination?
>>
>> > On 2007-12-26 13:32:53 -0800, "Paul E.
>> > Lehmann" > said:
>>
>> >> AxisOfBeagles wrote:
>>
>> >>> I'm interested in finding out from other
>> >>> growers what their fertilizing practicies
>> >>> are;
>>
>> >>> * When do you fertilize?
>> >>> * With what fertilizers?
>> >>> * How much?
>> >>> * How applied?
>>
>> >>> Also helpful to know where you are soil
>> >>> type, how you determine your fertilizing
>> >>> needs, etc.
>>
>> >> I base my program on soil and petiole sample
>> >> analysis and go by their (Penn State)
>> >> recommendations
>>
>> I believe it is best to fertilize in early fall
>> since the roots are still growing even though
>> there is no top growth. I apply direct to
>> soil.
>> I am not an expert. It is best to get with
>> your county ag office.
>
> Don't fertilize in the fall. You may encourage
> late growth or delayed
> dormancy which greatly increases the risk of
> freeze damage. Most recommendations are for an
> early spring (March - April) application with
> maybe subsequent applications if needed to
> increase vine vigor,
> but never after early July. Check with your
> local extension service and if they can't
> provide a good answer, there are recommendations
> available online.

I should have said late fall - after leaf fall and
dormancy starts. The roots are still growing
then but the transport is not in an upward
direction.

As usual, there are many different ways people fertilize so I'll add
my 2 cents. I side with Paul as far as late fall fertilizing, right
after leaf fall. It is absorbed by the plant and used next year at bud
break. Any fertilizer applied before bloom in the spring may be
wasted. Fertilizing should begin after/during bloom. Before bloom the
roots are not absorbing much and sending all their stored energy from
the previous year into shoot growth. Make sure the vine gets PLENTY of
water before verasion. Soil moisture is the biggest cause of nutrient
deficiency due to the fact that roots can't get to the nutrients
without the water to transport them to the roots. Actually mulching
after the heavy spring rains with a good layer of wood chips may be
all you need to do. Just keep the chips away from the trunks a couple
inches. If you add mulch every year you might never need to fertilize
due to the fact vine requirements are very small and most soils have
enough nutrients as long as the soil isn't allowed to go dry.
Obviously, too wet a soil is not good either but that's where
determining soil type comes in.

Bob

On Dec 26, 12:55*pm, AxisOfBeagles > wrote:
> I'm interested in finding out from other growers what their fertilizing
> practicies are;
>
> * When do you fertilize?
> * With what fertilizers?
> * How much?
> * How applied?
>
> Also helpful to know where you are soil type, how you determine your
> fertilizing needs, etc.

Nice post Bob, it's clear you've thought a lot about your fertilizing regimen.

What fertilizer do you use - and what soil type are your vines in?


On 2007-12-27 14:30:53 -0800, said:

> As usual, there are many different ways people fertilize so I'll add
> my 2 cents. I side with Paul as far as late fall fertilizing, right
> after leaf fall. It is absorbed by the plant and used next year at bud
> break. Any fertilizer applied before bloom in the spring may be
> wasted. Fertilizing should begin after/during bloom. Before bloom the
> roots are not absorbing much and sending all their stored energy from
> the previous year into shoot growth. Make sure the vine gets PLENTY of
> water before verasion. Soil moisture is the biggest cause of nutrient
> deficiency due to the fact that roots can't get to the nutrients
> without the water to transport them to the roots. Actually mulching
> after the heavy spring rains with a good layer of wood chips may be
> all you need to do. Just keep the chips away from the trunks a couple
> inches. If you add mulch every year you might never need to fertilize
> due to the fact vine requirements are very small and most soils have
> enough nutrients as long as the soil isn't allowed to go dry.
> Obviously, too wet a soil is not good either but that's where
> determining soil type comes in.
>
> Bob
>
> On Dec 26, 12:55*pm, AxisOfBeagles > wrote:
>> I'm interested in finding out from other growers what their fertilizing
>> practicies are;
>>
>> * When do you fertilize?
>> * With what fertilizers?
>> * How much?
>> * How applied?
>>
>> Also helpful to know where you are soil type, how you determine your
>> fertilizing needs, etc.

"Nice post Bob, it's clear you've thought a lot about your fertilizing
regimen."

I take no credit for any of it. It's a combination of stuff I've read
here and elsewhere. My soil type is sandy. It's impossible to over
water on sandy soil because the water just drains out. If you mulch
after a good soaking rain and seal the moisture into the soil you
will not have to fertilize at all.In areas of my vineyard were I have
a good mulch cover I haven't fertilized in 3 years. Obviously I
started using mulch 3 years ago. Don't forget, the wood chips break
down to compost and you should see the amount of worms and mycorrdia
(sp?) fungus under the top of the chips! Add that to the nutrients
produced during the breakdown and you have the best system for growing
any type of plant. One myth that you also need to exorcise from you
head is that grapes like drought. That's a myth. They need water and
plenty of it. Anyway, I highly recommend mulching over fertilizing
but if your hell bent on fertilizing, a 10-10-10 or 20-20-20 is good.
Remember, vines don't need alot of fertilizer. If the vines look
healthy, they are healthy

Bob.

On Dec 28, 1:21*pm, AxisOfBeagles > wrote:
> Nice post Bob, it's clear you've thought a lot about your fertilizing regimen.
>
> What fertilizer do you use - and what soil type are your vines in?
>
> On 2007-12-27 14:30:53 -0800, said:
>
> > As usual, there are many different ways people fertilize so I'll add
> > my 2 cents. I side with Paul as far as late fall fertilizing, right
> > after leaf fall. It is absorbed by the plant and used next year at bud
> > break. Any fertilizer applied before bloom in the spring may be
> > wasted. Fertilizing should begin after/during bloom. Before bloom the
> > roots are not absorbing much and sending all their stored energy from
> > the previous year into shoot growth. Make sure the vine gets PLENTY of
> > water before verasion. Soil moisture is the biggest cause of nutrient
> > deficiency due to the fact that roots can't get to the nutrients
> > without the water to transport them to the roots. Actually mulching
> > after the heavy spring rains with a good layer of wood chips may be
> > all you need to do. Just keep the chips away from the trunks a couple
> > inches. If you add mulch every year you might never need to fertilize
> > due to the fact vine requirements are very small and most soils have
> > enough nutrients as long as the soil isn't allowed to go dry.
> > Obviously, too wet a soil is not good either but that's where
> > determining soil type comes in.
>
> > Bob
>
> > On Dec 26, 12:55*pm, AxisOfBeagles > wrote:
> >> I'm interested in finding out from other growers what their fertilizing
> >> practicies are;
>
> >> * When do you fertilize?
> >> * With what fertilizers?
> >> * How much?
> >> * How applied?
>
> >> Also helpful to know where you are soil type, how you determine your
> >> fertilizing needs, etc.

> > Actually mulching
> > after the heavy spring rains with a good layer of wood chips may be
> > all you need to do. Just keep the chips away from the trunks a couple
> > inches.

Why do you have to keep the chips away from the trunks? Possibility of mold
from the wood chips moving to the vines?

Paul

> Why do you have to keep the chips away from the trunks? Possibility of mold
> from the wood chips moving to the vines?

Good question. You probably don't. It's what I've read and there are
other reasons besides rot like animals but I've never experienced
them. What I do is keep it away and use the mulch just for sealing the
water in around the vine and for nutrients as the chips break down.
It's worked for me extremely well but I wouldn't sweat it if the chip
touched the vine . This isn't an exact science, at least not the way
I do it .

Bob

Just thought of another reason why you wouldn't want to put the mulch
close to the trunk. Roots. You don't want the vine shooting roots near
the surface of the soil. Mulch may cause this to happen if placed
right next to the trunk. This may be the biggest reason as you want
the roots to grow down from the vine not out on the surface. Surface
roots are more prone to drought and will dry out quickly in a drought
condition.

Bob

On Dec 28, 5:45*pm, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> > > Actually mulching
> > > after the heavy spring rains with a good layer of wood chips may be
> > > all you need to do. Just keep the chips away from the trunks a couple
> > > inches.
>
> Why do you have to keep the chips away from the trunks? Possibility of mold
> from the wood chips moving to the vines?
>
> Paul

wrote:
> Just thought of another reason why you wouldn't want to put the mulch
> close to the trunk. Roots. You don't want the vine shooting roots near
> the surface of the soil. Mulch may cause this to happen if placed
> right next to the trunk. This may be the biggest reason as you want
> the roots to grow down from the vine not out on the surface. Surface
> roots are more prone to drought and will dry out quickly in a drought
> condition.
>
> Bob
>
> On Dec 28, 5:45 pm, "Pavel314" > wrote:
>>>> Actually mulching
>>>> after the heavy spring rains with a good layer of wood chips may be
>>>> all you need to do. Just keep the chips away from the trunks a couple
>>>> inches.
>> Why do you have to keep the chips away from the trunks? Possibility of mold
>> from the wood chips moving to the vines?
>>
>> Paul
>


If you have voles in your area, and they're pretty common, I've been
told that you can get some vine damage from them. They normally work
under litter or mulch and if you keep it away from the vine, damage is
less. At least that's what they say in Tennessee/Alabama.

Dick

I have field mice and haven't noticed any problems yet. If you grow
ungrafted vines you shouldn't have a problem even if you have a couple
vines damaged.

Bob

What do On Dec 30, 11:34*pm, Dick Heckman >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > Just thought of another reason why you wouldn't want to put the mulch
> > close to the trunk. Roots. You don't want the vine shooting roots near
> > the surface of the soil. Mulch may cause this to happen if placed
> > right next to the trunk. This may be the biggest reason as you want
> > the roots to grow down from the vine not out on the surface. Surface
> > roots are more prone to drought and will dry out quickly in a drought
> > condition.
>
> > Bob
>
> > On Dec 28, 5:45 pm, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> >>>> Actually mulching
> >>>> after the heavy spring rains with a good layer of wood chips may be
> >>>> all you need to do. Just keep the chips away from the trunks a couple
> >>>> inches.
> >> Why do you have to keep the chips away from the trunks? Possibility of mold
> >> from the wood chips moving to the vines?
>
> >> Paul
>
> If you have voles in your area, and they're pretty common, I've been
> told that you can get some vine damage from them. *They normally work
> under litter or mulch and if you keep it away from the vine, damage is
> less. *At least that's what they say in Tennessee/Alabama.
>
> Dick

Paul & Dick,

I lost quite a few maple saplings to voles girdling them under leaves,
etc overwinter. Trees as large as 3" and more in diam.

The vines are mulched with an inch or two of driveway gravel on top of
weedproof fabric, in a strip about 3 feet wide. It was a bit of work
doing nine rows, but it makes it sooooo much easier to mow under the
downward hanging canes. I think it provides an inhospitable environment
for rodents too, as I've never seen any sign of them under it.

BTW, I fertilize each spring with fireplace ashes, as I have acid soil.

Mike

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