Hi folks. With all the problems with alcohol seemingly rampant in the UK
lately - for various reasons, cheapness, accessibility, street-cred, etc.
etc. - it seems to be the fashion in the media lately to clobber drinking of
any kind.

There's a kind of grudging admission that One Glass Of Red Wine Is Good For
You, but that's it!!! Without going into a long argument about what is, and
what isn't, sensible drinking - we're all adults here, hopefully - how is it
that people in Europe have been drinking wine regularly for years
(centuries, even!) in moderate quantities, and haven't had the promised
"epidemic" of liver disease and all the other nasties?

There was a prog on the telly the other night maintaining that even a couple
of glasses with a meal was bad for you! I, personally, can't deal with
this! I'm getting a conscience every time I have a glass of my latest
lovely homebrew! Help !!!!

Barb

On Oct 18, 8:54 am, "Barb" > wrote:
> Without going into a long argument about what is, and
> what isn't, sensible drinking - we're all adults here, hopefully - how is it
> that people in Europe have been drinking wine regularly for years
> (centuries, even!) in moderate quantities, and haven't had the promised
> "epidemic" of liver disease and all the other nasties?

Centuries? Millennia!! Civilization started because people had to
stay in one place and farm in order to grow crops to make beer, wine,
and mead. Alcohol was the only advantage farmers had over the older
hunter-gatherer societies, but it was enough to make our ancestors
switch.

Barb wrote:

> Hi folks. With all the problems with alcohol
> seemingly rampant in the UK lately - for various
> reasons, cheapness, accessibility, street-cred,
> etc. etc. - it seems to be the fashion in the
> media lately to clobber drinking of any kind.
>
> There's a kind of grudging admission that One
> Glass Of Red Wine Is Good For
> You, but that's it!!! Without going into a long
> argument about what is, and what isn't, sensible
> drinking - we're all adults here, hopefully -
> how is it that people in Europe have been
> drinking wine regularly for years (centuries,
> even!) in moderate quantities, and haven't had
> the promised "epidemic" of liver disease and all
> the other nasties?
>
> There was a prog on the telly the other night
> maintaining that even a couple
> of glasses with a meal was bad for you! I,
> personally, can't deal with
> this! I'm getting a conscience every time I
> have a glass of my latest
> lovely homebrew! Help !!!!
>
> Barb

My family doctor told me "Keep drinking your wine,
Paul. You will live longer". My doctor at VA
said I have the highest value of HDL (the good
cholesterol) that she has ever seen. She thinks
it may be due to my home made wine consumption.
I also have very low triglycerides. My liver
enzymes are all normal. Enough said; think I
will have a glass of wine - or two or so.

quite simply put, we homebrewers & vintners, we're sup(*hic)ior beings ;^)
Hope this assuages your feelings & "scrooge" 'em if they can't take a joke
(or healthful suggestion!) cheers & regards, bob



"Barb" > wrote in message
news
> Hi folks. With all the problems with alcohol seemingly rampant in the UK
> lately - for various reasons, cheapness, accessibility, street-cred, etc.
> etc. - it seems to be the fashion in the media lately to clobber drinking
> of any kind.
>
> There's a kind of grudging admission that One Glass Of Red Wine Is Good
> For You, but that's it!!! Without going into a long argument about what
> is, and what isn't, sensible drinking - we're all adults here, hopefully -
> how is it that people in Europe have been drinking wine regularly for
> years (centuries, even!) in moderate quantities, and haven't had the
> promised "epidemic" of liver disease and all the other nasties?
>
> There was a prog on the telly the other night maintaining that even a
> couple of glasses with a meal was bad for you! I, personally, can't deal
> with this! I'm getting a conscience every time I have a glass of my
> latest lovely homebrew! Help !!!!
>
> Barb
>
>
>

"Barb" > wrote in message
news
> Hi folks. With all the problems with alcohol seemingly rampant in the UK
> lately - for various reasons, cheapness, accessibility, street-cred, etc.
> etc. - it seems to be the fashion in the media lately to clobber drinking
> of any kind.
>
> There's a kind of grudging admission that One Glass Of Red Wine Is Good
> For You, but that's it!!! Without going into a long argument about what
> is, and what isn't, sensible drinking - we're all adults here, hopefully -
> how is it that people in Europe have been drinking wine regularly for
> years (centuries, even!) in moderate quantities, and haven't had the
> promised "epidemic" of liver disease and all the other nasties?
>
> There was a prog on the telly the other night maintaining that even a
> couple of glasses with a meal was bad for you! I, personally, can't deal
> with this! I'm getting a conscience every time I have a glass of my
> latest lovely homebrew! Help !!!!
>
> Barb
>
Pooh on the telly's talking heads. If you are a sot, you are
drinking too much. One thing to consider about those ancient wines however,
the potency of our wines today is probably like comparing 151 rum to Diet
Pepsi -- if they'd had Pepsi back then -- or 151...

I submit that the high cases of elevated liver enzymes is from Advil
and Tylenol and not alcohol but the pharmas lobby is just to big. Do
not take that stuff for hangovers.

Bob


Barb wrote:
> Hi folks. With all the problems with alcohol seemingly rampant in the UK
> lately - for various reasons, cheapness, accessibility, street-cred, etc.
> etc. - it seems to be the fashion in the media lately to clobber drinking of
> any kind.
>
> There's a kind of grudging admission that One Glass Of Red Wine Is Good For
> You, but that's it!!! Without going into a long argument about what is, and
> what isn't, sensible drinking - we're all adults here, hopefully - how is it
> that people in Europe have been drinking wine regularly for years
> (centuries, even!) in moderate quantities, and haven't had the promised
> "epidemic" of liver disease and all the other nasties?
>
> There was a prog on the telly the other night maintaining that even a couple
> of glasses with a meal was bad for you! I, personally, can't deal with
> this! I'm getting a conscience every time I have a glass of my latest
> lovely homebrew! Help !!!!
>
> Barb

Just an add-on. Every person I know that has had liver problems or
elevated enzymes has been a heavy user of Advil or Tylenol. The
doctors will never ask you if you take the stuff. They will only ask
you how much you drink. If you know anyone with such problems, please
alert them to the fact that taking that stuff and drinking is a sure
way to shred your liver. Whether your taking it for back pain or
headaches, if you want your liver to be healthy you need to address
the source of pain and fix it without resorting to the temporary fix
of Advil or Tylenol. Believe it or not, it's very likely it's not the
alchohol doing the damage.

Bob

On Oct 26, 9:50 am, wrote:
> I submit that the high cases of elevated liver enzymes is from Advil
> and Tylenol and not alcohol but the pharmas lobby is just to big. Do
> not take that stuff for hangovers.
>
> Bob
>
> Barb wrote:
> > Hi folks. With all the problems with alcohol seemingly rampant in the UK
> > lately - for various reasons, cheapness, accessibility, street-cred, etc.
> > etc. - it seems to be the fashion in the media lately to clobber drinking of
> > any kind.
>
> > There's a kind of grudging admission that One Glass Of Red Wine Is Good For
> > You, but that's it!!! Without going into a long argument about what is, and
> > what isn't, sensible drinking - we're all adults here, hopefully - how is it
> > that people in Europe have been drinking wine regularly for years
> > (centuries, even!) in moderate quantities, and haven't had the promised
> > "epidemic" of liver disease and all the other nasties?
>
> > There was a prog on the telly the other night maintaining that even a couple
> > of glasses with a meal was bad for you! I, personally, can't deal with
> > this! I'm getting a conscience every time I have a glass of my latest
> > lovely homebrew! Help !!!!
>
> > Barb

Soooo, if I could ask opinions, if ya take Ibuprofen (Advil) like 2
tablets every 7-10 days for occasional pains from off road biking (I'm
over 50) --- that is not a heavy user, but should I attempt aspirin or
other pain reliever since I like my wine?

Just asking. DAve

wrote:
> Just an add-on. Every person I know that has had liver problems or
> elevated enzymes has been a heavy user of Advil or Tylenol. The
> doctors will never ask you if you take the stuff. They will only ask
> you how much you drink. If you know anyone with such problems, please
> alert them to the fact that taking that stuff and drinking is a sure
> way to shred your liver. Whether your taking it for back pain or
> headaches, if you want your liver to be healthy you need to address
> the source of pain and fix it without resorting to the temporary fix
> of Advil or Tylenol. Believe it or not, it's very likely it's not the
> alchohol doing the damage.
>
> Bob
>
> On Oct 26, 9:50 am, wrote:
>> I submit that the high cases of elevated liver enzymes is from Advil
>> and Tylenol and not alcohol but the pharmas lobby is just to big. Do
>> not take that stuff for hangovers.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> Barb wrote:
>>> Hi folks. With all the problems with alcohol seemingly rampant in the UK
>>> lately - for various reasons, cheapness, accessibility, street-cred, etc.
>>> etc. - it seems to be the fashion in the media lately to clobber drinking of
>>> any kind.
>>> There's a kind of grudging admission that One Glass Of Red Wine Is Good For
>>> You, but that's it!!! Without going into a long argument about what is, and
>>> what isn't, sensible drinking - we're all adults here, hopefully - how is it
>>> that people in Europe have been drinking wine regularly for years
>>> (centuries, even!) in moderate quantities, and haven't had the promised
>>> "epidemic" of liver disease and all the other nasties?
>>> There was a prog on the telly the other night maintaining that even a couple
>>> of glasses with a meal was bad for you! I, personally, can't deal with
>>> this! I'm getting a conscience every time I have a glass of my latest
>>> lovely homebrew! Help !!!!
>>> Barb
>
>

Dave Allison wrote:
Dave,

First, let me say that I am a physician. Second, let me say that it
would be irresponsible and unwise for me to say that it is or isn't OK
to use acetominaphen or ibuprofen products occasionally in conjunction
with alcohol. There are too many variables, and besides, words said in
cyberspace live forever.

My personal policy is this: I never use acetominaphen or ibuprofen for
any reason, as the effects on the liver are quite real, and I can't
justify it for routine problems. In the rare times when I do want a
something for body aches after overdoing it, I use aspirin, good ol'
acetyl salycilic acid. My feeling is that I'd rather irritate my stomach
lining a bit, which will heal, than start doing cumulative, irreversible
damage to my liver. And yes, alcohol aggravates both sets of side effects.

I figure that a certain level of liver damage is tolerable, and I prefer
to get mine from the moderate use of red wine.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.



--
Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Thanks! Makes sense.
DAve

Mike McGeough wrote:
> Dave Allison wrote:
> Dave,
>
> First, let me say that I am a physician. Second, let me say that it
> would be irresponsible and unwise for me to say that it is or isn't OK
> to use acetominaphen or ibuprofen products occasionally in conjunction
> with alcohol. There are too many variables, and besides, words said in
> cyberspace live forever.
>
> My personal policy is this: I never use acetominaphen or ibuprofen for
> any reason, as the effects on the liver are quite real, and I can't
> justify it for routine problems. In the rare times when I do want a
> something for body aches after overdoing it, I use aspirin, good ol'
> acetyl salycilic acid. My feeling is that I'd rather irritate my stomach
> lining a bit, which will heal, than start doing cumulative, irreversible
> damage to my liver. And yes, alcohol aggravates both sets of side effects.
>
> I figure that a certain level of liver damage is tolerable, and I prefer
> to get mine from the moderate use of red wine.
>
> Your mileage, of course, may vary.
>
>
>

"Dave Allison" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks! Makes sense.
> DAve
>
> Mike McGeough wrote:
>> Dave Allison wrote:
>> Dave,
>>
>> First, let me say that I am a physician. Second, let me say that it would
>> be irresponsible and unwise for me to say that it is or isn't OK to use
>> acetominaphen or ibuprofen products occasionally in conjunction with
>> alcohol. There are too many variables, and besides, words said in
>> cyberspace live forever.
>>
>> My personal policy is this: I never use acetominaphen or ibuprofen for
>> any reason, as the effects on the liver are quite real, and I can't
>> justify it for routine problems. In the rare times when I do want a
>> something for body aches after overdoing it, I use aspirin, good ol'
>> acetyl salycilic acid. My feeling is that I'd rather irritate my stomach
>> lining a bit, which will heal, than start doing cumulative, irreversible
>> damage to my liver. And yes, alcohol aggravates both sets of side
>> effects.
>>
>> I figure that a certain level of liver damage is tolerable, and I prefer
>> to get mine from the moderate use of red wine.
>>
>> Your mileage, of course, may vary.
>>
>>

Thanks for all the input, folks! The above post makes a lot of sense, and I
also have a strong suspicion that all the horrible chemicals we are exposed
to every day (laundry products, shower gel, cleaning products, shampoo, air
fresheners, petrol fumes, etc.etc) do much more damage to your liver than 2
or 3 glasses of wine a day - particularly the homemade kind where you know
what goes into it!

After all (and I think I've got this right ...) 40% of what you put on your
skin alone ends up in your body, and therefore your liver!

I, personally, try to avoid as much of this environmental cr*p as possible,
using natural alternatives - and people laugh at me 'cos I drink moderately!
But I think it's a case of not accumulating lots of different poisons, and
we all need at least one little vice!

Barb (dedicated wine drinker!)

Barb wrote:

>
> There was a prog on the telly the other night maintaining that even a couple
> of glasses with a meal was bad for you! I, personally, can't deal with
> this! I'm getting a conscience every time I have a glass of my latest
> lovely homebrew! Help !!!!
>
> Barb
>
>
>

The Humourist and commentator H.L. Mencken once said "Puritanism is the
fear that someone, somewhere is having fun." I feel that much the same
is happening with this "new puritanism" that seems to be on the rise:
There is some real fear mongering that anything one finds pleasurable is
some how "bad for you."

Take alcohol, as this is the topic that has come up, as an example. I
have known pregnant women who have called up their doctors in a state of
hysteria because the salad dressing they had on their salad for lunch
had white wine vinegar in it. Never mind the fact that by virtue of the
fact it is "vinegar" means that it is not alcoholic. This is not to say
that FAS is not something serious, however, if you look at the histories
of the children born with it, their mothers were not the type to have a
glass of sherry after church on Sunday. In each and every case, the
woman involved had to work long and hard to drink enough to cause it,
these women were hardcore binge drinkers, and alcoholics themselves.

It has been proven that everything from drinking milk to sex causes
cancer, and too much of anything will kill you. For the talking heads
on the telly that is money in the bank. After all, what makes the news
and makes people watch the news? The things that make people afraid.

My advice? Turn off the telly, pour a glass of merlot, and open a good
book.

All things in moderation,

Abby
--
The ChildFree Abby Archives - http://www.dismal-light.net/childfreeabby/

>
> My advice? Turn off the telly, pour a glass of merlot, and open a good
> book.
>
> All things in moderation,
>
> Abby
> --
> The ChildFree Abby Archives - http://www.dismal-light.net/childfreeabby/


Absolutely agree! A good book and a glass (or two!) of nice wine go
together so well!

Barb