I recently traveled to France where I tasted sweet muscats. I'm not
sure if they were fortified, but they didn't taste like they had more
than the routine 12-13% alcohol. My question is how to best make a
wine like these.

I don't have access to ice wine grapes, but I do have access to fresh
muscat grapes. Obviously, I could ferment to dryness, then add back
sugar and sorbate at the end. But I'm wondering whether I could just
start my routine fermentation and as the brix approaches 12-15, just
add progressive amounts of sugar, then terminate fermentation when I
get down to the desired level of residual sugar.

Can anyone give me any insight or suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Lee

On Aug 29, 1:57 pm, Lee > wrote:
> I recently traveled to France where I tasted sweet muscats. I'm not
> sure if they were fortified, but they didn't taste like they had more
> than the routine 12-13% alcohol. My question is how to best make a
> wine like these.
>
> I don't have access to ice wine grapes, but I do have access to fresh
> muscat grapes. Obviously, I could ferment to dryness, then add back
> sugar and sorbate at the end. But I'm wondering whether I could just
> start my routine fermentation and as the brix approaches 12-15, just
> add progressive amounts of sugar, then terminate fermentation when I
> get down to the desired level of residual sugar.
>
> Can anyone give me any insight or suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Lee

Well, there are a couple of muscat varieties as a heads up. They
sterile filter for the most part.

If you want to terminate an active fermentation the best way to
proceed is keep the yeast weak to begin with, maybe consider adding
no nutrient. Then ferment as cool as you can to keep the ferment slow
and maintain fruitiness. Chill it to stop fermentation and fine and
filter with as tight a filter as you can get. I am going to
experiment with hot bottling, I can post the details but I got the
idea from Birds book on winemaking. I'll post the title for you.

I have always wondered why no one uses beer yeast to ferment sweet
wines, you would think they would give up well before any wine yeast.

Joe

On Aug 29, 10:57 am, Lee > wrote:
> I recently traveled to France where I tasted sweet muscats. I'm not
> sure if they were fortified, but they didn't taste like they had more
> than the routine 12-13% alcohol. My question is how to best make a
> wine like these.
>
> I don't have access to ice wine grapes, but I do have access to fresh
> muscat grapes. Obviously, I could ferment to dryness, then add back
> sugar and sorbate at the end. But I'm wondering whether I could just
> start my routine fermentation and as the brix approaches 12-15, just
> add progressive amounts of sugar, then terminate fermentation when I
> get down to the desired level of residual sugar.
>
> Can anyone give me any insight or suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Lee

Yes, French AOC muscats are fortified - same method as port, the
alcohol as you mentioned might be lower although probably higher than
12-13%; the one example that popped up in a quick search has 15%.

Given that, if you use a regular white wine yeast with alcohol
tolerance 12-14%, you should be able to get it to a stage where the
yeast dies off and the sugar and alcohol are at good levels using
regular fermentation. You'll get a different flavour profile than with
fortification but the result should still be pretty good.

Joe, interesting idea about the beer yeasts, maybe they're not strong
enough to get to a decent alcohol level for wine? Different flavour
profile?

Pp

Lee

For the little guy that can't sterile filter and sterile bottle, there are
generally three approaches to this.

1. The "Port" method: Monitor SG(RS), and when it gets down
to the level you want, add enough alcohol to kill the yeast and
thus stop the ferment.

2. The "Old fashioned" method: Add more sugar than the yeast
can ferment before the alcohol kills the yeast, thus leaving you
with the remaining sugar as RS.

3. The "Chill/Sorbate" method: Monitor SG/RS, and when it gets
to where you want it, chill the wine to make the yeast go dorment,
wait until the wine falls clear, rack the clear wine away from the
lees (while still cold), add Sorbate to inhibit any yeast that may
not have precipitated while chilled.

Never cared much for the number 3 method. Seems I always had
to add sugar anyway to insure I had at least 10%ABV for
stability. Just seemed more trouble than it was worth.
HTH

Frederick



"Lee" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>I recently traveled to France where I tasted sweet muscats. I'm not
> sure if they were fortified, but they didn't taste like they had more
> than the routine 12-13% alcohol. My question is how to best make a
> wine like these.
>
> I don't have access to ice wine grapes, but I do have access to fresh
> muscat grapes. Obviously, I could ferment to dryness, then add back
> sugar and sorbate at the end. But I'm wondering whether I could just
> start my routine fermentation and as the brix approaches 12-15, just
> add progressive amounts of sugar, then terminate fermentation when I
> get down to the desired level of residual sugar.
>
> Can anyone give me any insight or suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Lee
>

On Aug 30, 5:50 am, "frederick ploegman" >
wrote:
> Lee
>
> For the little guy that can't sterile filter and sterile bottle, there are
> generally three approaches to this.
>
> 1. The "Port" method: Monitor SG(RS), and when it gets down
> to the level you want, add enough alcohol to kill the yeast and
> thus stop the ferment.
>
> 2. The "Old fashioned" method: Add more sugar than the yeast
> can ferment before the alcohol kills the yeast, thus leaving you
> with the remaining sugar as RS.
>
> 3. The "Chill/Sorbate" method: Monitor SG/RS, and when it gets
> to where you want it, chill the wine to make the yeast go dorment,
> wait until the wine falls clear, rack the clear wine away from the
> lees (while still cold), add Sorbate to inhibit any yeast that may
> not have precipitated while chilled.
>
> Never cared much for the number 3 method. Seems I always had
> to add sugar anyway to insure I had at least 10%ABV for
> stability. Just seemed more trouble than it was worth.
> HTH
>
> Frederick
>

Or 4. Ferment to dryness, let clear, and back sweeten to taste using
sugar or reserved juice and add sorbate. This is a variant of 3 and
usually easier to manage because dry wine clear faster and better than
with with some RS, plus you don't have to keep it chilled all the
time.

Pp

Hi Pp

Yup - but the OP already mentioned that so I only listed some
alternatives. That is what I would term the "Modern" method.

Regards

Frederick



"pp" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Aug 30, 5:50 am, "frederick ploegman" >
> wrote:
>> Lee
>>
>> For the little guy that can't sterile filter and sterile bottle, there
>> are
>> generally three approaches to this.
>>
>> 1. The "Port" method: Monitor SG(RS), and when it gets down
>> to the level you want, add enough alcohol to kill the yeast and
>> thus stop the ferment.
>>
>> 2. The "Old fashioned" method: Add more sugar than the yeast
>> can ferment before the alcohol kills the yeast, thus leaving you
>> with the remaining sugar as RS.
>>
>> 3. The "Chill/Sorbate" method: Monitor SG/RS, and when it gets
>> to where you want it, chill the wine to make the yeast go dorment,
>> wait until the wine falls clear, rack the clear wine away from the
>> lees (while still cold), add Sorbate to inhibit any yeast that may
>> not have precipitated while chilled.
>>
>> Never cared much for the number 3 method. Seems I always had
>> to add sugar anyway to insure I had at least 10%ABV for
>> stability. Just seemed more trouble than it was worth.
>> HTH
>>
>> Frederick
>>
>
> Or 4. Ferment to dryness, let clear, and back sweeten to taste using
> sugar or reserved juice and add sorbate. This is a variant of 3 and
> usually easier to manage because dry wine clear faster and better than
> with with some RS, plus you don't have to keep it chilled all the
> time.
>
> Pp
>