All:

I am currently making a Estate Series Washington Valley Reisling white
wine & am thinking about trying to make it a bit sweeter as I prefer
sweeter wines. From what I've read the way to do it is to make a simple
syrup & they add some to the bottle when corking it. Not knowing how
sweet to make it I thought about adding varrious amounts & then marking
the bottle as to how much simple syrup was added. Then I'll be able to
tell which sweetness I prefer. Any ideas on how much to start with???
1 oz, 1 1/2 oz, 2 oz???? Or am I going about this the wrong way?? Any
help or suggestions will be appreciated,
thanks in advance......
Al

The "usual" way is to prepare the sugar syrup. Then set up about 5
glasses and pour the same amount of wine into each, say 50ml. Then add
measured amounts of the syrup to each glass in linear increments - for
example, nothing into 1st glass, 2ml into 2nd, 4ml into 3rd, ... , 8ml
into 5th. Then taste and compare and pick the 1 you like best, that
will give you the ratio of wine to syrup that you then adjust for the
size of the whole batch. For ex., if the glass with 4ml of syrup tastes
best, that's 50:4 = 12.5:1 ratio, so you'd need a litre of the syrup
for each 12.5L of wine.

That's the basic idea, you can tweak it by either using larger wine
samples or lower increments of the sugar syrup additions. You can also
do a 2 stage process where you pick 2 glasses that you like best first
and do a 2nd round of tasting with these as the "border glasses" and 3
new sample in between for better precision.

Also, depending on the strength of the syrup, you might have to do
smaller increments than full mls.

Last caveat - the balance can change over time and also your taste
preference might differ from day to day, so if you have time and a 5
gal carboy, you could actually create 5 bottle samples after the tests
)assuming you're working with 6 gals) and let them age for 1-2 months
and then compare. And then sweeten the 5 gal batch according to that
comparison. That should give you the best result but it's more labour
intensive and you need more equipment, so it might be an overkill.

Pp

On Dec 7, 9:37 am, Al Margita > wrote:
> All:
>
> I am currently making a Estate Series Washington Valley Reisling white
> wine & am thinking about trying to make it a bit sweeter as I prefer
> sweeter wines. From what I've read the way to do it is to make a simple
> syrup & they add some to the bottle when corking it. Not knowing how
> sweet to make it I thought about adding varrious amounts & then marking
> the bottle as to how much simple syrup was added. Then I'll be able to
> tell which sweetness I prefer. Any ideas on how much to start with???
> 1 oz, 1 1/2 oz, 2 oz???? Or am I going about this the wrong way?? Any
> help or suggestions will be appreciated,
> thanks in advance......
> Al

Pp's method will work just fine. One comment however is that, at least in
my opinion, as wine ages and mellows the sweetness comes out more. If you
sweeten to taste when the wine is young it may be to sweet after it ages.
This is where the real art comes in. I would suggest you put in a little
less than you thing you will need. Maybe 20% less.

Also, this is a great place to get your good buddies involved. Invite some
friends over and let them rate the different sweetness levels. You will all
have a great time. The will feel honored that you value their judgement.
And when they go home you can throw away thier evluations and make it the
way you like best. ;o)

Remember that a sweeter wine requires more acid and maybe more tanin to
balance it. If it tastes flat after you get it to the sweetness you like,
do not hesitate to add a tiny bit of acid to brighten it or a little tannin
to give it a bit of bite.

Ray

"pp" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The "usual" way is to prepare the sugar syrup. Then set up about 5
> glasses and pour the same amount of wine into each, say 50ml. Then add
> measured amounts of the syrup to each glass in linear increments - for
> example, nothing into 1st glass, 2ml into 2nd, 4ml into 3rd, ... , 8ml
> into 5th. Then taste and compare and pick the 1 you like best, that
> will give you the ratio of wine to syrup that you then adjust for the
> size of the whole batch. For ex., if the glass with 4ml of syrup tastes
> best, that's 50:4 = 12.5:1 ratio, so you'd need a litre of the syrup
> for each 12.5L of wine.
>
> That's the basic idea, you can tweak it by either using larger wine
> samples or lower increments of the sugar syrup additions. You can also
> do a 2 stage process where you pick 2 glasses that you like best first
> and do a 2nd round of tasting with these as the "border glasses" and 3
> new sample in between for better precision.
>
> Also, depending on the strength of the syrup, you might have to do
> smaller increments than full mls.
>
> Last caveat - the balance can change over time and also your taste
> preference might differ from day to day, so if you have time and a 5
> gal carboy, you could actually create 5 bottle samples after the tests
> )assuming you're working with 6 gals) and let them age for 1-2 months
> and then compare. And then sweeten the 5 gal batch according to that
> comparison. That should give you the best result but it's more labour
> intensive and you need more equipment, so it might be an overkill.
>
> Pp
>
> On Dec 7, 9:37 am, Al Margita > wrote:
>> All:
>>
>> I am currently making a Estate Series Washington Valley Reisling white
>> wine & am thinking about trying to make it a bit sweeter as I prefer
>> sweeter wines. From what I've read the way to do it is to make a simple
>> syrup & they add some to the bottle when corking it. Not knowing how
>> sweet to make it I thought about adding varrious amounts & then marking
>> the bottle as to how much simple syrup was added. Then I'll be able to
>> tell which sweetness I prefer. Any ideas on how much to start with???
>> 1 oz, 1 1/2 oz, 2 oz???? Or am I going about this the wrong way?? Any
>> help or suggestions will be appreciated,
>> thanks in advance......
>> Al
>

I made a Gewurztraminer early this year, and also like it a bit sweeter
than it turned out. I add about half a teaspoon of simple sugar to the
bottle after I uncork it, and it's just fine for me.
My wife likes it "as is" so I do nothing when I pop open a bottle for her.
Adding it after bottling gives you a choice of what to do when you
discover how the wine turns out after aging.


"Al Margita" > wrote in message
...
> All:
>
> I am currently making a Estate Series Washington Valley Reisling white
> wine & am thinking about trying to make it a bit sweeter as I prefer
> sweeter wines. From what I've read the way to do it is to make a simple
> syrup & they add some to the bottle when corking it. Not knowing how
> sweet to make it I thought about adding varrious amounts & then marking
> the bottle as to how much simple syrup was added. Then I'll be able to
> tell which sweetness I prefer. Any ideas on how much to start with??? 1
> oz, 1 1/2 oz, 2 oz???? Or am I going about this the wrong way?? Any
> help or suggestions will be appreciated,
> thanks in advance......
> Al

i've waited 6 weeks (i'm slow & lazy) before bottling after using
sparkalloid & i still got floculates. However, the finished product was
extremely clear. there's only a ring of sludge on the bottom of those
bottles, and no one has complained: they assume it's part of the homemade
charm!


"Al Margita" > wrote in message
...
> All:
>
> I am currently making a Estate Series Washington Valley Reisling white
> wine & am thinking about trying to make it a bit sweeter as I prefer
> sweeter wines. From what I've read the way to do it is to make a simple
> syrup & they add some to the bottle when corking it. Not knowing how
> sweet to make it I thought about adding varrious amounts & then marking
> the bottle as to how much simple syrup was added. Then I'll be able to
> tell which sweetness I prefer. Any ideas on how much to start with??? 1
> oz, 1 1/2 oz, 2 oz???? Or am I going about this the wrong way?? Any
> help or suggestions will be appreciated,
> thanks in advance......
> Al

I'm actually considering not using sorbate anymore and seeing what
happens with my Boun Vino on the sterile filters. Technically it
shouldn't work, but the more I make these the more I agree with Tom S
that sorbate is just not the right way to go.

Joe

Joe Sallustio wrote "I'm actually considering not using sorbate anymore and
seeing what
> happens with my Boun Vino on the sterile filters. Technically it
> shouldn't work, but the more I make these the more I agree with Tom S
> that sorbate is just not the right way to go.

Sounds like a good move Joe. My taster isn't what it used to be but I
always can taste sorbate in sweetened wines. I have Presque Isle's
cartridge filtration system and use 1.0 and .02 micron cartridges. Since
you can't be sure downstream wine from the filter is sterile I've always
added sorbate to sweetened wines even tho. I filter. I'm buying a 0.45
micron cartridge to use for sweetened wines next time I make one. From what
I read 0.45 will remove yeast. Also, by the time we sweeten and bottle
wines almost all yeast will be gone. Just watch...I'll probably make bottle
bombs.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

William Frazier wrote:
> Joe Sallustio wrote "I'm actually considering not using sorbate anymore and
> seeing what
>
>>happens with my Boun Vino on the sterile filters. Technically it
>>shouldn't work, but the more I make these the more I agree with Tom S
>>that sorbate is just not the right way to go.
>
>
> Sounds like a good move Joe. My taster isn't what it used to be but I
> always can taste sorbate in sweetened wines. I have Presque Isle's
> cartridge filtration system and use 1.0 and .02 micron cartridges. Since
> you can't be sure downstream wine from the filter is sterile I've always
> added sorbate to sweetened wines even tho. I filter. I'm buying a 0.45
> micron cartridge to use for sweetened wines next time I make one. From what
> I read 0.45 will remove yeast. Also, by the time we sweeten and bottle
> wines almost all yeast will be gone. Just watch...I'll probably make bottle
> bombs.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
>

Bill, Joe,

I've given up on sorbate too, because of the taste.
I researched commercial preservatives a bit and came up with Benzoate,
which is quite safe and as tasteless as you're gonna find, even as a
stock solution. Since it's found naturally at high concentrations in
several fruits, e.g. blueberries, it comes close to a natural
preservative too. Also quite inexpensive. It's prohibited to commercial
winemakers, and I seem to recall that there's some question of its
interaction with citric acid, but those won't concern most home winemakers.
Currently I'm testing it at 250 ppm in a small batch of sweet reserve
Vignoles-Traminette. There's been no sign of renewed fermentation over a
couple of months, but I'll give it more time and post tasting
observations at a later time.

Mike

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"Mike McGeough" > wrote in message
...
>
>and came up with Benzoate, Currently I'm testing it at 250 ppm

Hi Mike

Potassium or Sodium Benzoate ?? Where did you get it ??

Frederick

I am not supporting the idea of bottling sweet wines without steril
filtering or using sorbate, BUT, here is something that might work.

First do any fining or whatever to be sure that it is crystal clear. Then
cool the wine down to a level that will definately stop all yeast. This is
a good time of year for this. Then put it in a place from which you can
rack without moving it and let it set for long enough to be sure it is not
starting to ferment again and be sure that it is crystal clear. During this
time, be sure to turn the carboy sharply several times to be sure nothing
clings to the sides of the carboy. At this point all the yeast, live or
dead should be on the bottom. Now rack and bottle being careful not to
disturb the bottom, even if little or no sediment is visible, and only run
the racking cane dow 3/4's of the way. What you bottle should be fairly
safe. Now you can bottle the rest or move it to a smaller carboy. If you
bottle it, mark it for early consumption.

Ray

"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
>
> Joe Sallustio wrote "I'm actually considering not using sorbate anymore
> and seeing what
>> happens with my Boun Vino on the sterile filters. Technically it
>> shouldn't work, but the more I make these the more I agree with Tom S
>> that sorbate is just not the right way to go.
>
> Sounds like a good move Joe. My taster isn't what it used to be but I
> always can taste sorbate in sweetened wines. I have Presque Isle's
> cartridge filtration system and use 1.0 and .02 micron cartridges. Since
> you can't be sure downstream wine from the filter is sterile I've always
> added sorbate to sweetened wines even tho. I filter. I'm buying a 0.45
> micron cartridge to use for sweetened wines next time I make one. From
> what I read 0.45 will remove yeast. Also, by the time we sweeten and
> bottle wines almost all yeast will be gone. Just watch...I'll probably
> make bottle bombs.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas USA
>
>

> First do any fining or whatever to be sure that it is crystal clear. Then
> cool the wine down to a level that will definately stop all yeast. This is
> a good time of year for this. Then put it in a place from which you can
> rack without moving it and let it set for long enough to be sure it is not
> starting to ferment again and be sure that it is crystal clear. During this
> time, be sure to turn the carboy sharply several times to be sure nothing
> clings to the sides of the carboy. At this point all the yeast, live or
> dead should be on the bottom. Now rack and bottle being careful not to
> disturb the bottom, even if little or no sediment is visible, and only run
> the racking cane dow 3/4's of the way. What you bottle should be fairly
> safe. Now you can bottle the rest or move it to a smaller carboy. If you
> bottle it, mark it for early consumption.

Ray,
Sounds interesting; I'm seriously considering building a little flash
pasteurizer after reading Bird's book. He talks about a few seconds at
150 F being good enough. I could make a little control setup and
stainless tubing heater assembly. I know it sounds crazy but I like
tinkering, it would be pretty cool if you could make one for under $150
and I think I can...

Joe