I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery in the Brda region. The guide there was
talking about aging their products in oak amongst other materials. I was interested to hear him say that they use oak
chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew for the American market because 'the American market prefers the
taste produced that way'.

I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general or not. Perhaps the economics or differences in
qualities between indigneous American oak and European oak have lead to a preference for chips? Just interested...

Jim

They are probably better able to regulate the amount of oak flavor by
relying on chips rather than barrels.

Most Americans do seem to like more oak. I've had some Chardonnays that
made me think I was licking an oak plank, but they do sell quite well.
In general, Americans prefer bolder flavors in their wines.

Also, American oak does impart more flavor than French, Russian,
Hungarian, etc. This is due to the more open grain of the American oak
compared to its old world counterparts.

Greg

jim wrote:
> I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery in the Brda region. The guide there was
> talking about aging their products in oak amongst other materials. I was interested to hear him say that they use oak
> chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew for the American market because 'the American market prefers the
> taste produced that way'.
>
> I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general or not. Perhaps the economics or differences in
> qualities between indigneous American oak and European oak have lead to a preference for chips? Just interested...
>
> Jim

They are probably better able to regulate the amount of oak flavor by
relying on chips rather than barrels.

Most Americans do seem to like more oak. I've had some Chardonnays that
made me think I was licking an oak plank, but they do sell quite well.
In general, Americans prefer bolder flavors in their wines.

Also, American oak does impart more flavor than French, Russian,
Hungarian, etc. This is due to the more open grain of the American oak
compared to its old world counterparts.

Greg

jim wrote:
> I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery in the Brda region. The guide there was
> talking about aging their products in oak amongst other materials. I was interested to hear him say that they use oak
> chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew for the American market because 'the American market prefers the
> taste produced that way'.
>
> I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general or not. Perhaps the economics or differences in
> qualities between indigneous American oak and European oak have lead to a preference for chips? Just interested...
>
> Jim

I am one of those weirdos with an overly sensitive nose and don't like
over-oaked wines. Many California wines are, to my excessively large and
sensitive proboscis, over-oaked. Probably in part because of the strength of
American oak but likely also a reflection of the market style. I can't help
but believe that a number of wines, especially Cabs here in California, are
over-oaked to cover up what are otherwise mediocre (or worse) wines. IMHO,
the result is even more appalling.

I've been using oak staves, inserted into my stainless steel barrels, for my
oaking. I've been able to control wine/oak volume/surface ratios over time.
So far, so good. Personal preference is still for medium toast French - but
haven't tried Hungarian oak. Personally don't find that chips give me more
control - just the opposite; less certainty of surface / volume ratios and
(for me) less control. With staves can insert / withdraw as needed.

Never had a Slovenian wine - any good?



>
>
> They are probably better able to regulate the amount of oak flavor by
> relying on chips rather than barrels.
>
> Most Americans do seem to like more oak. I've had some Chardonnays that
> made me think I was licking an oak plank, but they do sell quite well.
> In general, Americans prefer bolder flavors in their wines.
>
> Also, American oak does impart more flavor than French, Russian,
> Hungarian, etc. This is due to the more open grain of the American oak
> compared to its old world counterparts.
>
> Greg
>
> jim wrote:
>> I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery
>> in the Brda region. The guide there was
>> talking about aging their products in oak amongst other materials. I was
>> interested to hear him say that they use oak
>> chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew for the American
>> market because 'the American market prefers the
>> taste produced that way'.
>>
>> I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general
>> or not. Perhaps the economics or differences in
>> qualities between indigneous American oak and European oak have lead to a
>> preference for chips? Just interested...
>>
>> Jim
>

Jim,
I would agree with the last post that a lot of CA wines are overoaked, or
oaked incorrectly. Anthing that tastes like a wood plank is masking poor
winemaking. I will interject that Zinfandel does better with American Oak
than European oak.
Joanne

"jim" > wrote in message
...
>I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery
>in the Brda region. The guide there was talking about aging their products
>oak amongst other materials. I was interested to hear him say that they
>use oak chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew for the
>American market because 'the American market prefers the taste produced
>that way'.
>
> I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general or
> not. Perhaps the economics or differences in qualities between indigneous
> American oak and European oak have lead to a preference for chips? Just
> interested...
>
> Jim
>

IMHO - Zinfandel does even better unoaked

> Jim,
> I would agree with the last post that a lot of CA wines are overoaked,
> or oaked incorrectly. Anthing that tastes like a wood plank is masking
> poor winemaking. I will interject that Zinfandel does better with American
> Oak than European oak.
> Joanne
>
> "jim" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery
>>in the Brda region. The guide there was talking about aging their
>>products oak amongst other materials. I was interested to hear him say
>>that they use oak chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew
>>for the American market because 'the American market prefers the taste
>>produced that way'.
>>
>> I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general
>> or not. Perhaps the economics or differences in qualities between
>> indigneous American oak and European oak have lead to a preference for
>> chips? Just interested...
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
>

Thanks for the answers guys. Slovenian wine was pretty good pricewise and the best of it is very nice indeed.
Aparrently they won the 'make a chardonnay like a champagne' competition, beating France in 2004 I think he said...

The oaking issue continues to interest me. I've no experience with it as yet...

"Ric" > wrote in message om...
> IMHO - Zinfandel does even better unoaked
>
>> Jim,
>> I would agree with the last post that a lot of CA wines are overoaked, or oaked incorrectly. Anthing that tastes
>> like a wood plank is masking poor winemaking. I will interject that Zinfandel does better with American Oak than
>> European oak.
>> Joanne
>>
>> "jim" > wrote in message ...
>>>I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery in the Brda region. The guide there was
>>>talking about aging their products oak amongst other materials. I was interested to hear him say that they use oak
>>>chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew for the American market because 'the American market prefers
>>>the taste produced that way'.
>>>
>>> I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general or not. Perhaps the economics or
>>> differences in qualities between indigneous American oak and European oak have lead to a preference for chips? Just
>>> interested...
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Using oak chips and aging in an oak barrel can produce different
results. There are several parts to this.

Oak chips (unless reused) are always "fresh", so they impart a
stronger oak flavor than anything except a new barrel.

Oak barrels, especially older ones, impart less oak flavor as their
interior surface isn't fresh. Note that barrels can be disassembled,
scraped down, and reassembled although I'm told that's a job for a
barrel craftsman.

Extended aging in a barrel produces an effect upon the wine -- it
concentrates it. Water in the wine evaporates through the barrel, so
there is a certain loss in quantity over time that needs to be topped
up. This is different from any flavor produced by the oak (barrel or
chips). Barrel aged wine will taste different from that aged with
chips.

This doesn't answer your question, but I felt like babbling ... :-)

Bryan



On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:03:43 +0100, "jim" >
wrote:

>I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery in the Brda region. The guide there was
>talking about aging their products in oak amongst other materials. I was interested to hear him say that they use oak
>chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew for the American market because 'the American market prefers the
>taste produced that way'.
>
>I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general or not. Perhaps the economics or differences in
>qualities between indigneous American oak and European oak have lead to a preference for chips? Just interested...
>
>Jim
>

Very interesting though

"Jake Speed" > wrote in message ...
> Using oak chips and aging in an oak barrel can produce different
> results. There are several parts to this.
>
> Oak chips (unless reused) are always "fresh", so they impart a
> stronger oak flavor than anything except a new barrel.
>
> Oak barrels, especially older ones, impart less oak flavor as their
> interior surface isn't fresh. Note that barrels can be disassembled,
> scraped down, and reassembled although I'm told that's a job for a
> barrel craftsman.
>
> Extended aging in a barrel produces an effect upon the wine -- it
> concentrates it. Water in the wine evaporates through the barrel, so
> there is a certain loss in quantity over time that needs to be topped
> up. This is different from any flavor produced by the oak (barrel or
> chips). Barrel aged wine will taste different from that aged with
> chips.
>
> This doesn't answer your question, but I felt like babbling ... :-)
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:03:43 +0100, "jim" >
> wrote:
>
>>I was in Slovenia for my honeymoon this August and visited a large winery in the Brda region. The guide there was
>>talking about aging their products in oak amongst other materials. I was interested to hear him say that they use oak
>>chips instead of oak containers for the wines they brew for the American market because 'the American market prefers
>>the
>>taste produced that way'.
>>
>>I wondered if anyone could speculate on whether that is true in general or not. Perhaps the economics or differences
>>in
>>qualities between indigneous American oak and European oak have lead to a preference for chips? Just interested...
>>
>>Jim
>>