Hi:

Here is my wine fantasy.

Ripe French white wine grapes are used.

Before fermentation, all acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals,
ions, and electrolytes are removed from the grape juice. Ph is at least
7.

Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts. Yeasts are protected
from their own alcohol so that it doesn't injure or kill them. Vinegar
yeasts, acidic bacteria [e.g. lactic and acetic], mold, mildew, and
other foreign microbes are prohibited from entering the wine or any of
the wine's equipment.

After alcoholic fermentation is complete, all CO2 as well as any acids,
sulphides, oxides, ions, minerals, metals, and electrolytes indirectly
occurring during the fermentation are removed. All yeast are also
removed from the wine. The pH now is also at least 7.

Now the aging process begins and is performed by bacteria. Anaerobic
bacteria [excluding lactic and acetic acid bacteria] enter the white
wine. The bacteria initially feed on all organic substances present in
the wine [excluding ethanol] and produce foul-smelling substances.
After this, any resulting acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metal,
ions and electrolytes are removed from the wine. Following this, the
bacteria then feed on 50% of the molecules of ethanol present in the
wine while leaving the other half of ethanol molecules unaffected --
this decrease the alcohol content of the wine by 50%. More
foul-smelling substances are excreted from these bacteria. Following
this, any resulting acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals, ions
and electrolytes are removed from the stinky white wine.

Next, these bacteria die [for some mysterious reason] and a new batch
of anaerobic, non-acidic bacteria are inserted into the stinky white
wine. These new set of bacteria then cannibalize the all dead bacteria
and produce more foul-smelling substances. The new bacteria then flee
the wine and the wine equipment. Finally, any resulting acids,
sulfides, oxides, minerals, metals, ions and electrolytes are once
again removed from the even stinkier white wine.

End result: my favorite white wine!!!

Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???


Regards,

Radium

I'm not sure about the wine, but I'd like to try whatever you smoked
before posting this !

;-)

Sounds absolutely horrible!

Ray

"Radium" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi:
>
> Here is my wine fantasy.
>
> Ripe French white wine grapes are used.
>
> Before fermentation, all acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals,
> ions, and electrolytes are removed from the grape juice. Ph is at least
> 7.
>
> Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts. Yeasts are protected
> from their own alcohol so that it doesn't injure or kill them. Vinegar
> yeasts, acidic bacteria [e.g. lactic and acetic], mold, mildew, and
> other foreign microbes are prohibited from entering the wine or any of
> the wine's equipment.
>
> After alcoholic fermentation is complete, all CO2 as well as any acids,
> sulphides, oxides, ions, minerals, metals, and electrolytes indirectly
> occurring during the fermentation are removed. All yeast are also
> removed from the wine. The pH now is also at least 7.
>
> Now the aging process begins and is performed by bacteria. Anaerobic
> bacteria [excluding lactic and acetic acid bacteria] enter the white
> wine. The bacteria initially feed on all organic substances present in
> the wine [excluding ethanol] and produce foul-smelling substances.
> After this, any resulting acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metal,
> ions and electrolytes are removed from the wine. Following this, the
> bacteria then feed on 50% of the molecules of ethanol present in the
> wine while leaving the other half of ethanol molecules unaffected --
> this decrease the alcohol content of the wine by 50%. More
> foul-smelling substances are excreted from these bacteria. Following
> this, any resulting acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals, ions
> and electrolytes are removed from the stinky white wine.
>
> Next, these bacteria die [for some mysterious reason] and a new batch
> of anaerobic, non-acidic bacteria are inserted into the stinky white
> wine. These new set of bacteria then cannibalize the all dead bacteria
> and produce more foul-smelling substances. The new bacteria then flee
> the wine and the wine equipment. Finally, any resulting acids,
> sulfides, oxides, minerals, metals, ions and electrolytes are once
> again removed from the even stinkier white wine.
>
> End result: my favorite white wine!!!
>
> Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Radium
>

Ray Calvert wrote:
> Sounds absolutely horrible!

No offense but why wouldn't you like it?

crackhead!!!!!!!

Radium wrote:
> Hi:
>
> Here is my wine fantasy.
>
> Ripe French white wine grapes are used.
>
> Before fermentation, all acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals,
> ions, and electrolytes are removed from the grape juice. Ph is at least
> 7.
>
> Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts. Yeasts are protected
> from their own alcohol so that it doesn't injure or kill them. Vinegar
> yeasts, acidic bacteria [e.g. lactic and acetic], mold, mildew, and
> other foreign microbes are prohibited from entering the wine or any of
> the wine's equipment.
>
> After alcoholic fermentation is complete, all CO2 as well as any acids,
> sulphides, oxides, ions, minerals, metals, and electrolytes indirectly
> occurring during the fermentation are removed. All yeast are also
> removed from the wine. The pH now is also at least 7.
>
> Now the aging process begins and is performed by bacteria. Anaerobic
> bacteria [excluding lactic and acetic acid bacteria] enter the white
> wine. The bacteria initially feed on all organic substances present in
> the wine [excluding ethanol] and produce foul-smelling substances.
> After this, any resulting acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metal,
> ions and electrolytes are removed from the wine. Following this, the
> bacteria then feed on 50% of the molecules of ethanol present in the
> wine while leaving the other half of ethanol molecules unaffected --
> this decrease the alcohol content of the wine by 50%. More
> foul-smelling substances are excreted from these bacteria. Following
> this, any resulting acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals, ions
> and electrolytes are removed from the stinky white wine.
>
> Next, these bacteria die [for some mysterious reason] and a new batch
> of anaerobic, non-acidic bacteria are inserted into the stinky white
> wine. These new set of bacteria then cannibalize the all dead bacteria
> and produce more foul-smelling substances. The new bacteria then flee
> the wine and the wine equipment. Finally, any resulting acids,
> sulfides, oxides, minerals, metals, ions and electrolytes are once
> again removed from the even stinkier white wine.
>
> End result: my favorite white wine!!!
>
> Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Radium

Is this YOUR WAY to make people stop drinking? A good job done badly :-)

Farooq W wrote:

> Is this YOUR WAY to make people stop drinking?

No I am just describing a new way to make the most delicious [IMHO]
French white wine.

Radium wrote on 24 Apr 2006 11:31:40 -0700:

??>> Is this YOUR WAY to make people stop drinking?

>.No I am just describing a new way to make the most
>delicious [IMHO] French white wine.

I'm glad it's your opinion especially since it seems you could
never have had such a wine :-) Nor, IMHO, do I expect you ever
will unless you make it yourself.

James Silverton.

James wrote to Radium on Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:56:33 -0400:

??>>> Is this YOUR WAY to make people stop drinking?

??>> .No I am just describing a new way to make the most
??>> delicious [IMHO] French white wine.

JS> I'm glad it's your opinion especially since it seems you
JS> could never have had such a wine :-) Nor, IMHO, do I expect
JS> you ever will unless you make it yourself.

May I also add that, AFAIK, the pH of Chardonnay, for example,
is between 3 and 4 not 7 as you aim for and I think such a
neutral wine would be uninteresting.


James Silverton.

Radium wrote:
> Farooq W wrote:
>
>
>>Is this YOUR WAY to make people stop drinking?
>
>
> No I am just describing a new way to make the most delicious [IMHO]
> French white wine.
>


And, like your other fantasies, completely unfeasible.
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Larry Farrell wrote:

> And, like your other fantasies, completely unfeasible.

With today's technology is is unfeasible. However, with high-end
nanotechnology it is physically-possible, its just that scientists
don't yet have a way of doing this and neither do I. If fun to think of
this possibility though.

>From what I can tell, I would really like to indulge in this high-tech
heavenly French white wine, if only it were available.

James Silverton wrote:

> May I also add that, AFAIK, the pH of Chardonnay, for example,
> is between 3 and 4 not 7 as you aim for and I think such a
> neutral wine would be uninteresting.

For me, it would so immeasureably interesting.

How long do you think there is until sufficient technology will exist
to make my delicious white wine?

Most wines have pH closer to 3 than 7. A completely neutral wine isn't
wine- it's diluted vodka.

Besides, if you pull out all the minerals, ions, and electrolytes out
of the juice, you'll not only pull out all the flavour, you'll also
pull out the nutrients that the yeasts need in order to ferment
whatever you've got left.

Any oenophile will tell you that this "wine" ins't going to work- even
if it did ferment, it'd be undrinkable.

Madalch wrote:
> Most wines have pH closer to 3 than 7. A completely neutral wine isn't
> wine- it's diluted vodka.

Okay.

> Besides, if you pull out all the minerals, ions, and electrolytes out
> of the juice, you'll not only pull out all the flavour, you'll also
> pull out the nutrients that the yeasts need in order to ferment
> whatever you've got left.

What if those yeasts got the minerals, ions, and electrolytes from
other sources [e.g. high-tech nanotubes seperate from the grape juice]?

BTW, minerals, ions, and electrolytes do not provide any flavor to the
wine.

> Any oenophile will tell you that this "wine" ins't going to work- even
> if it did ferment, it'd be undrinkable.

Why wouldn't it be drinkable [other than the fact that it stinks of
bacterial waste]?

Radium wrote on 24 Apr 2006 13:33:54 -0700:


R> Madalch wrote:
??>> Most wines have pH closer to 3 than 7. A completely
??>> neutral wine isn't wine- it's diluted vodka.

R> Okay.

??>> Besides, if you pull out all the minerals, ions, and
??>> electrolytes out of the juice, you'll not only pull out
??>> all the flavour, you'll also pull out the nutrients that
??>> the yeasts need in order to ferment whatever you've got
??>> left.

R> What if those yeasts got the minerals, ions, and
R> electrolytes from other sources [e.g. high-tech nanotubes
R> seperate from the grape juice]?

R> BTW, minerals, ions, and electrolytes do not provide any
R> flavor to the wine.

??>> Any oenophile will tell you that this "wine" ins't going
??>> to work- even if it did ferment, it'd be undrinkable.

Your original is crossposted to some actual scientific ngs. I
assume you have been completely ignored and I recommend the
Dummies book series to you.

James Silverton.

"Radium" > skrev i melding
ups.com...
>
> James Silverton wrote:
>
>> Your original is crossposted to some actual scientific ngs. I
>> assume you have been completely ignored and I recommend the
>> Dummies book series to you.
>>
>> James Silverton.
>
> As I said before, my wine cannot be made with today's technology. It
> requires some intense nanotech and biotech.
>
Sorry, what you make will be distilled water
Anders

In message . com>
"Radium" > wrote:

>
> James Silverton wrote:
>
>> Your original is crossposted to some actual scientific ngs. I
>> assume you have been completely ignored and I recommend the
>> Dummies book series to you.
>>
>> James Silverton.
>
> As I said before, my wine cannot be made with today's technology. It
> requires some intense nanotech and biotech.
>
Thank God for small mercies — may He delay tomorrow‘s technology in
this area.

Tim Hartley

Anders Tørneskog wrote:

> Sorry, what you make will be distilled water

Why distilled water? Surely, there would also be some organic compounds
in my concoction even in the end.

"Radium" wrote .......
>
> Here is my wine fantasy.
>

Nightmare more like it !!!!!!!

>
> Ripe French white wine grapes are used.
>

Why? You live in LA! Why on earth do you want to import grapes from France?

With the process you are proposing, why not just add sugar to water and
ferment that?


> Before fermentation, all acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals,
> ions, and electrolytes are removed from the grape juice.

Leaving what?


> Ph is at least 7.
>

Ah, now here you show your total ignorance - may I suggest a career in
Dreamworld, Hollywood.

You see, pH levels are fundamental to the wine-making industry. It strongly
influences wine properties such as color, oxidation, biological and chemical
stability.

pH values range from 2.9 to 4.2 in wine. Wine's chemical and biological
stability are very dependent on pH value. Lower pH values are known to
improve the stability, so winemakers usually prefer a pH range of 3.0 to
3.5. The wine is so stable in this range that many winemakers believe pH is
a crucial guideline in wine-making.
There are many advantages to low pH values in wine. Low pH inhibits
bacteria, causes sugar fermentation to progress more evenly and makes
malolactic fermentation easier to control.

Low pH also has a direct influence on the stability of wine.

Low wine pH results in better visual qualities as well. When pH is lower,
both red and white wines maintain better color intensity. Red wines have
more and better color and white wines do not brown as easily.

When wine has high pH values, bacteria grow rapidly and undesirable
bacterial fermentation is more problematic. This condition causes less
biological and chemical stability, and poorer color. Wines with a high pH
always need more attention and greater care.


> Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts.


Roll back the tape: you have already said that "Before fermentation, all
acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals, ions, and electrolytes are
removed from the grape juice"

So how on earth are you going to remove just about everything except the
water while leaving the natural yeast - oh I see, you are going to
virtually sterilise everything then start adding "stuff".

What is this American fixation - trying to create something totally
artificial to replace wholesome, natural foods?

Just like trying to make a pizza containing no meat or vegetable or cheese
on an inert, "cardboard" base.

Radium, I think that your brain has been nuked!!!!!

--

st.helier

st.helier wrote:
> "Radium" wrote .......
> >
> > Here is my wine fantasy.
> >
>
> Nightmare more like it !!!!!!!
>
> >
> > Ripe French white wine grapes are used.
> >
>
> Why? You live in LA! Why on earth do you want to import grapes from France?

> With the process you are proposing, why not just add sugar to water and
> ferment that?

Because I want the organic substances that are naturally present in the
grape juice. They give flavor to the wine. Water and sugar alone just
give alcohol when fermented, which is boring.

>
> > Before fermentation, all acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals,
> > ions, and electrolytes are removed from the grape juice.
>
> Leaving what?

Phenols, phytonutrients, xanthophylls, chlorophylls,and other organic
substances naturally present in the grape juice.

>
> > Ph is at least 7.
> >
>
> Ah, now here you show your total ignorance - may I suggest a career in
> Dreamworld, Hollywood.
>
> You see, pH levels are fundamental to the wine-making industry. It strongly
> influences wine properties such as color, oxidation, biological and chemical
> stability.
>
> pH values range from 2.9 to 4.2 in wine. Wine's chemical and biological
> stability are very dependent on pH value. Lower pH values are known to
> improve the stability, so winemakers usually prefer a pH range of 3.0 to
> 3.5. The wine is so stable in this range that many winemakers believe pH is
> a crucial guideline in wine-making.
> There are many advantages to low pH values in wine. Low pH inhibits
> bacteria, causes sugar fermentation to progress more evenly and makes
> malolactic fermentation easier to control.
>
> Low pH also has a direct influence on the stability of wine.
>
> Low wine pH results in better visual qualities as well. When pH is lower,
> both red and white wines maintain better color intensity. Red wines have
> more and better color and white wines do not brown as easily.

> When wine has high pH values, bacteria grow rapidly and undesirable
> bacterial fermentation is more problematic. This condition causes less
> biological and chemical stability, and poorer color. Wines with a high pH
> always need more attention and greater care.

Actually, fermentation by anaerobic bacteria [excluding acid-producing
bacteria] is one thing I want.

>
> > Fermentation is performed solely by wine yeasts.
>
>
> Roll back the tape: you have already said that "Before fermentation, all
> acids, sulphides, oxides, minerals, metals, ions, and electrolytes are
> removed from the grape juice"

> So how on earth are you going to remove just about everything except the
> water while leaving the natural yeast - oh I see, you are going to
> virtually sterilise everything then start adding "stuff".

FYI, more than just water remains. Grapes contain other organic
compounds such as phenols.

nailer wrote:
> why bother?

Because different plants have different flavors. Flavors aren't always
acids, sulfides, minerals, metals, or ions.

>just start with potatoes or cane sugar or rye. After your
> process you'll get the same crap noone wants to drink.

> FYI, more than just water remains. Grapes contain other organic
> compounds such as phenols.

For your information, phenols are fairly acidic, and you insisted on
stripping out all the acids.

Try learning just a little bit about wines before posting such nonsense
about how "heavenly" your wine would be if you could only remove
absolutely everything that is there to give it flavour.

"Mike Tommasi" > skrev i melding
...
>
> Why bother even replying ? He writes nonsense and X-posts on 5 NGs.
> Forget it, stay on subject, let's talk about wine.
>
Came to think of it - Uranium and Radium are pretty close, aren't they?

Anders

It sounds chemically manufactured rather than natural. I do not see anyway
it could realistically be done. You would have to add base to bring the ph
up to 7 and you would never make it drinkable again.

Ray

"Radium" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ray Calvert wrote:
>> Sounds absolutely horrible!
>
> No offense but why wouldn't you like it?
>

In article >, sredna.goksenrot@i
2c.ten says...
>
>
>"Mike Tommasi" > skrev i melding
...
>>
>> Why bother even replying ? He writes nonsense and X-posts on 5 NGs.
>> Forget it, stay on subject, let's talk about wine.
>>
>Came to think of it - Uranium and Radium are pretty close, aren't they?
>
>Anders

Yes, however, it seemed, to me atleast, that Mr UC at least knew wine, though
has/had some strange biases. Also, this poster is talking about FR grapes.
Maybe a red herring, but Mr. UC indicated that he would never drink FR. Of
course, maybe he felt that this would render out the FR component.

For me, just hand me a glass of Le Montrachet, not too chilled!

Hunt

--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

Madalch wrote:
> > FYI, more than just water remains. Grapes contain other organic
> > compounds such as phenols.
>
> For your information, phenols are fairly acidic, and you insisted on
> stripping out all the acids.

Phenols are not acids. They end in -ol so they are alcohols. Ethan-ol
and methan-ol and most any substance ending in -ol is an alcohol.

> Try learning just a little bit about wines before posting such nonsense
> about how "heavenly" your wine would be if you could only remove
> absolutely everything that is there to give it flavour.

nailer wrote:
> On 24 Apr 2006 19:32:53 -0700, "Radium" > wrote:
>
> #
> #nailer wrote:
> #> why bother?
> #
> #Because different plants have different flavors. Flavors aren't
> always
> #acids, sulfides, minerals, metals, or ions.

> so, acids, minerals, metals, or ions DO NOT contribute to wine
> quality?

They definitely do contribute to the flavor. However, they are not the
only substances that give wine its smells and tastes.

> which you want to remove and which to retain for a great taste,
> flavour?
>
> you'll end up with chateau de ****
>
>
> #
> #>just start with potatoes or cane sugar or rye. After your
> #> process you'll get the same crap noone wants to drink.

In article .com>, "Radium" > wrote:
>
>Madalch wrote:
>> > FYI, more than just water remains. Grapes contain other organic
>> > compounds such as phenols.
>>
>> For your information, phenols are fairly acidic, and you insisted on
>> stripping out all the acids.
>
>Phenols are not acids. They end in -ol so they are alcohols. Ethan-ol
>and methan-ol and most any substance ending in -ol is an alcohol.
>

Phenols aren't usually classified as alcohols, since the carbon to which
the OH is attached isn't saturated. And they are more acidic than alcohols.

> Phenols are not acids. They end in -ol so they are alcohols. Ethan-ol
> and methan-ol and most any substance ending in -ol is an alcohol.

Look twit, phenols are a class of alcohols which have the hydroxyl
group on an aromatic ring. They are appreciably acidic- the pKa of
phenol is about 10, which is why it is referred to carbolic acid.

Why don't you run along and try making some wine of your own? You'll
have the wine you want, and we won't have to read your nonsense, and
we'll all be happy.

"Radium" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Madalch wrote:
>> > FYI, more than just water remains. Grapes contain other organic
>> > compounds such as phenols.
>>
>> For your information, phenols are fairly acidic, and you insisted on
>> stripping out all the acids.
>
> Phenols are not acids. They end in -ol so they are alcohols. Ethan-ol
> and methan-ol and most any substance ending in -ol is an alcohol.
>
<snip>

Like salbutamol and propanolol, for example...

GS

"Radium" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Ray Calvert wrote:
>> Sounds absolutely horrible!
>
> No offense but why wouldn't you like it?


Wine with a pH => 7??? Yeech! Sounds like the definition of "insipid" to
me.

Eric Lucas

"Radium" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Ray Calvert wrote:
>
>> It sounds chemically manufactured rather than natural.
>
>>I do not see anyway it could realistically be done.
>
> It can't be done with today's technology. Thats true.
>
>> You would have to add base to bring the ph
>> up to 7 and you would never make it drinkable again.
>
> Or, nanobots could be programmed to selectively remove the acids,
> oxides, minerals, metals, ions, electrolytes, and sulfides while
> leaving the other substances alone.

James Clerk Maxwell is now rolling over in his grave.

Eric Lucas

Try a lambic beer and you'll get about what you're talking about
here--whatever this is.

nailer wrote:
> except phenols are aromatics with hydroxy group attached to the ring,
> alkohols have hydroxy group in an aliphatic chain.

Okay

Radium wrote:
> Madalch wrote:
> > Most wines have pH closer to 3 than 7. A completely neutral wine isn't
> > wine- it's diluted vodka.
>
> Okay.
>
> > Besides, if you pull out all the minerals, ions, and electrolytes out
> > of the juice, you'll not only pull out all the flavour, you'll also
> > pull out the nutrients that the yeasts need in order to ferment
> > whatever you've got left.
>
> What if those yeasts got the minerals, ions, and electrolytes from
> other sources [e.g. high-tech nanotubes seperate from the grape juice]?
>
> BTW, minerals, ions, and electrolytes do not provide any flavor to the
> wine.

Are you nuts? Do you think wineries use distilled water to make their
product? Or breweries or distilleries for that matter!

Chris

>
> > Any oenophile will tell you that this "wine" ins't going to work- even
> > if it did ferment, it'd be undrinkable.
>
> Why wouldn't it be drinkable [other than the fact that it stinks of
> bacterial waste]?

wrote:

> Do you think wineries use distilled water to make their product?

I never said they do.

Radium wrote:
> Hi:
>
> Here is my wine fantasy.

~snip painful reading~

> End result: my favorite white wine!!!

Why not just get some Everclear and dilute it with distilled water?
And add whatever else you *thought* would be left after you ~somehow
magically~ got rid of all the sulfides, ions, yada yada yada...


> Would anyone like to try my favorite white wine???

Sorry, no thanks.

wrote:


> And add whatever else you *thought* would be left after you ~somehow
> magically~ got rid of all the sulfides, ions, yada yada yada...

Wine contains lots of organic [compounds containing carbon and
hydrogen] substances that are non-acidic.

wrote:

> How on earth can you say electrolytes and minerals don't contribute to
> the flavor of wine? Is one water just as good as any other then?

Electrolytes and minerals have no smell nor do they affect the smells
of other substances in the wine.

Radium wrote:
> wrote:
>
>
> > And add whatever else you *thought* would be left after you ~somehow
> > magically~ got rid of all the sulfides, ions, yada yada yada...
>
> Wine contains lots of organic [compounds containing carbon and
> hydrogen] substances that are non-acidic.

GC/Mass Spec, anyone?