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Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
I think even the wingers in news:alt.food.wine will be glad to
hear this news. Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts don't lie. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4692016.stm> Violence down amid pub law change Violent crimes recorded by the police in England and Wales fell by 11% at the end of last year, despite longer pub opening hours coming in, figures show. The Home Office figures for the last three months of 2005 include a six-week period when the police were given £2.5m to target alcohol-related crime. The figures are the first since licensing laws were changed in November to allow extended drinking hours. Police have said it will take longer to assess the full impact of the changes. Half of all violent crime is linked to excessive drinking and the government had been waiting to see how the figures would be affected by longer opening hours for pubs and clubs. To nip potential problems in the bud, the Home Office gave the police and trading standards departments £2.5m to target binge drinking between 12 November and Christmas. With more officers on the streets at night, violent crime went down by 11% overall, with an even sharper fall in more serious types of offence, the figures show. However, BBC crime correspondent Neil Bennett said it was not possible to draw firm conclusions about the effects of extended opening hours from these figures alone. He said: "The extra money to tackle drink-related violence has now run out and - as the figures for mugging showed recently - when specially targeted operations stop, so crime tends to go up again." When the new licensing laws came in on 24 November, police forces said the full implications would not be clear for at least six months. At the time, about 1,000 premises had 24-hour licences, with thousands more licensed to extend opening times by only one or two hours. |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:34:52 +0000, Jasbird wrote:
> Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts don't lie. This is similar to cannabis reclassification to class C - use went down. It is also as I predicted before the pub hours change. -- Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK Save Gales Brewery http://www.savegales.org.uk/ |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Jasbird wrote:
> I think even the wingers in news:alt.food.wine will be glad to > hear this news. Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts > don't lie. > > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4692016.stm> > > Violence down amid pub law change > > Violent crimes recorded by the police in England and Wales fell > by 11% at the end of last year, despite longer pub opening hours > coming in, figures show. > I don't see how these figures can saying anything about the effects of longer pub opening hours and they came into effect in late November. > The Home Office figures for the last three months of 2005 > include a six-week period when the police were given £2.5m to > target alcohol-related crime. > > The figures are the first since licensing laws were changed in > November to allow extended drinking hours. > > Police have said it will take longer to assess the full impact > of the changes. > I would agree with the police. > Half of all violent crime is linked to excessive drinking and > the government had been waiting to see how the figures would be > affected by longer opening hours for pubs and clubs. > > To nip potential problems in the bud, the Home Office gave the > police and trading standards departments £2.5m to target binge > drinking between 12 November and Christmas. > > With more officers on the streets at night, violent crime went > down by 11% overall, with an even sharper fall in more serious > types of offence, the figures show. > > However, BBC crime correspondent Neil Bennett said it was not > possible to draw firm conclusions about the effects of extended > opening hours from these figures alone. > > He said: "The extra money to tackle drink-related violence has > now run out and - as the figures for mugging showed recently - > when specially targeted operations stop, so crime tends to go up > again." > > When the new licensing laws came in on 24 November, police > forces said the full implications would not be clear for at > least six months. > > At the time, about 1,000 premises had 24-hour licences, with > thousands more licensed to extend opening times by only one or > two hours. > I fully supported the deregulation of pub opening hours and I am sure that over the long term it will reduce alcohol related violence but it is a bit too soon to expect to see any changes from official statistics. It reminds me a bit of the Gun Control Network (sic) who were crowing over the reduction in armed crime in 1998, claiming it was due to the confiscation of target shooters' pistols. It turned out the 98 figures were atypical and we have seen serious year on year increases since then, which the GCN has not been so keen to brag about. |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Phil Stovell wrote:
> > On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:34:52 +0000, Jasbird wrote: > > > Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts don't lie. > > This is similar to cannabis reclassification to class C - use went down. > It is also as I predicted before the pub hours change. > > -- > Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK > > Save Gales Brewery > http://www.savegales.org.uk/ didn't you make a wager on the outcome? b -- citizen, patriot, stoner Marijuana: it's nowhere near as scary as they want you to think. truth: the Anti-drugwar http://www.briancbennett.com Nothing will ever change if we don't stand up for ourselves: http://cannabisconsumers.org "Cops say legalize drugs" ask them why: http://www.leap.cc |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Harry The Horse wrote:
> > Jasbird wrote: > > I think even the wingers in news:alt.food.wine will be glad to > > hear this news. Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts > > don't lie. > > > > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4692016.stm> > > > > Violence down amid pub law change > > > > Violent crimes recorded by the police in England and Wales fell > > by 11% at the end of last year, despite longer pub opening hours > > coming in, figures show. > > > I don't see how these figures can saying anything about the effects of > longer pub opening hours and they came into effect in late November. > > > The Home Office figures for the last three months of 2005 > > include a six-week period when the police were given £2.5m to > > target alcohol-related crime. > > > > The figures are the first since licensing laws were changed in > > November to allow extended drinking hours. > > > > Police have said it will take longer to assess the full impact > > of the changes. > > > I would agree with the police. > > > Half of all violent crime is linked to excessive drinking and > > the government had been waiting to see how the figures would be > > affected by longer opening hours for pubs and clubs. > > > > To nip potential problems in the bud, the Home Office gave the > > police and trading standards departments £2.5m to target binge > > drinking between 12 November and Christmas. > > > > With more officers on the streets at night, violent crime went > > down by 11% overall, with an even sharper fall in more serious > > types of offence, the figures show. > > > > However, BBC crime correspondent Neil Bennett said it was not > > possible to draw firm conclusions about the effects of extended > > opening hours from these figures alone. > > > > He said: "The extra money to tackle drink-related violence has > > now run out and - as the figures for mugging showed recently - > > when specially targeted operations stop, so crime tends to go up > > again." > > > > When the new licensing laws came in on 24 November, police > > forces said the full implications would not be clear for at > > least six months. > > > > At the time, about 1,000 premises had 24-hour licences, with > > thousands more licensed to extend opening times by only one or > > two hours. > > > I fully supported the deregulation of pub opening hours and I am sure that > over the long term it will reduce alcohol related violence but it is a bit > too soon to expect to see any changes from official statistics. > > It reminds me a bit of the Gun Control Network (sic) who were crowing over > the reduction in armed crime in 1998, claiming it was due to the > confiscation of target shooters' pistols. It turned out the 98 figures were > atypical and we have seen serious year on year increases since then, which > the GCN has not been so keen to brag about. the single best way to reduce alcohol-related mayhem is to allow open sales and use of other intoxicants. all the young lads who cause most of the problems would be much better off smoking cannabis rather than alcohol. having a *choice* will allow people to act more responsibly -- while forcing them to drink booze only ensures a continuation of young people drinking to the point of losing control. b -- citizen, patriot, stoner Marijuana: it's nowhere near as scary as they want you to think. truth: the Anti-drugwar http://www.briancbennett.com Nothing will ever change if we don't stand up for ourselves: http://cannabisconsumers.org "Cops say legalize drugs" ask them why: http://www.leap.cc |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 14:32:30 +0000, brian bennett wrote:
> Phil Stovell wrote: >> >> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:34:52 +0000, Jasbird wrote: >> >> > Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts don't lie. >> >> This is similar to cannabis reclassification to class C - use went down. >> It is also as I predicted before the pub hours change. >> >> -- >> Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK >> >> Save Gales Brewery >> http://www.savegales.org.uk/ > > didn't you make a wager on the outcome? Yes, £10. Trouble is, I can't recall whom my bet is with! > > b -- Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK Save Gales Brewery http://www.savegales.org.uk/ |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Phil Stovell wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 14:32:30 +0000, brian bennett wrote: > >> Phil Stovell wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:34:52 +0000, Jasbird wrote: >>> >>> > Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts don't lie. >>> >>> This is similar to cannabis reclassification to class C - use went down. >>> It is also as I predicted before the pub hours change. >> >> didn't you make a wager on the outcome? > > Yes, £10. Trouble is, I can't recall whom my bet is with! http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....3e1bbd3?hl=en& Bloke called Francis Burton. "Kev" witnessed it. A year isn't up yet though so you've got a little while to wait before collecting. I'll bet you 10GBP that you do though. ;) -- http://www.ollieclark.com/acronyms.html |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
brian > the single best way to reduce alcohol-related mayhem is to allow open > sales and use of other intoxicants. all the young lads who cause most > of the problems would be much better off smoking cannabis rather than > alcohol. Of course, there will be more violence due to other drugs. What if the lads' favourite turns out to be crack instead of dope? |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Phil Stovell wrote:
> > On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 14:32:30 +0000, brian bennett wrote: > > > Phil Stovell wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:34:52 +0000, Jasbird wrote: > >> > >> > Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts don't lie. > >> > >> This is similar to cannabis reclassification to class C - use went down. > >> It is also as I predicted before the pub hours change. > >> > >> -- > >> Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK > >> > >> Save Gales Brewery > >> http://www.savegales.org.uk/ > > > > didn't you make a wager on the outcome? > > Yes, £10. Trouble is, I can't recall whom my bet is with! > > > > > b > -- > Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK > > Save Gales Brewery > http://www.savegales.org.uk/ hmmmm, short term memory problems? ;^) b -- citizen, patriot, stoner Marijuana: it's nowhere near as scary as they want you to think. truth: the Anti-drugwar http://www.briancbennett.com Nothing will ever change if we don't stand up for ourselves: http://cannabisconsumers.org "Cops say legalize drugs" ask them why: http://www.leap.cc |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
wrote:
> > brian > > the single best way to reduce alcohol-related mayhem is to allow open > > sales and use of other intoxicants. all the young lads who cause most > > of the problems would be much better off smoking cannabis rather than > > alcohol. > > Of course, there will be more violence due to other drugs. What if the > lads' favourite turns out to be crack instead of dope? not bloody likely -- drug users exhibit very strong tendencies in the drugs they use, and some of them (like crack, heroin and pcp) are just *extremely* unpopular: http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/big-pic/index.htm b -- citizen, patriot, stoner Marijuana: it's nowhere near as scary as they want you to think. truth: the Anti-drugwar http://www.briancbennett.com Nothing will ever change if we don't stand up for ourselves: http://cannabisconsumers.org "Cops say legalize drugs" ask them why: http://www.leap.cc |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
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Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
"Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message ... > >> the single best way to reduce alcohol-related mayhem is to allow open > >> sales and use of other intoxicants. all the young lads who cause most > >> of the problems would be much better off smoking cannabis rather than > >> alcohol. > > >Of course, there will be more violence due to other drugs. What if the > >lads' favourite turns out to be crack instead of dope? > > To your first point: totally untrue. Most of the violence is related to the > black market drug trade, not the use of the drugs. Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. -- Andy |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
"Phil Stovell" > wrote in message ... > On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:34:52 +0000, Jasbird wrote: > > > Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts don't lie. > > This is similar to cannabis reclassification to class C - use went down. > It is also as I predicted before the pub hours change. What is your prediction about what will happen to tobacco use rates if/when they ban smoking in pubs? What has the effect been of the *increasing* prohibition on smoking we've seen over the last 20 years or so? -- Andy |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
In article > "Andy Pandy" > writes:
> >"Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message ... >> >> the single best way to reduce alcohol-related mayhem is to allow open >> >> sales and use of other intoxicants. all the young lads who cause most >> >> of the problems would be much better off smoking cannabis rather than >> >> alcohol. >> >Of course, there will be more violence due to other drugs. What if the >> >lads' favourite turns out to be crack instead of dope? >> To your first point: totally untrue. Most of the violence is related to the >> black market drug trade, not the use of the drugs. >Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. Not strange at all. It has nothing to do with legal status, but with a property unique to alcohol. Numerous studies have shown that the only drug that tends to provoke increased violence in users is alcohol. -Pete Zakel ) "Public nudity is the evil the state seeks to prevent." -William Rehnquist, Chief Justice of the United States |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
In article > "Andy Pandy" > writes:
>What is your prediction about what will happen to tobacco use rates if/when they ban >smoking in pubs? > >What has the effect been of the *increasing* prohibition on smoking we've seen over >the last 20 years or so? Banning smoking in pubs isn't the same thing as prohibition. If simply possessing tobacco landed you in jail, THAT would be prohibition. -Pete Zakel ) Nothing is faster than the speed of light... To prove this to yourself, try opening the refrigerator door before the light comes on. |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Andy Pandy wrote: > "Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message > ... > > >> the single best way to reduce alcohol-related mayhem is to allow open > > >> sales and use of other intoxicants. all the young lads who cause most > > >> of the problems would be much better off smoking cannabis rather than > > >> alcohol. > > > > >Of course, there will be more violence due to other drugs. What if the > > >lads' favourite turns out to be crack instead of dope? > > > > To your first point: totally untrue. Most of the violence is related to the > > black market drug trade, not the use of the drugs. > > Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. The use of alcohol can turn otherwise sensible people into aggressive sometimes even violent arseholes you must have noticed that, there are no other drugs that do the same in anything like way alcohol does. Are you aware of what happened during alcohol prohibition in america, people who sold and produced booze were exceptionally violent (e.g. Al Capone) the same can not be said of the producers and distributors of alcohol now that it's legally available, when was the last time you heard about the owner of a bargain booze doing a drive by on a booze buster? |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 22:40:32 -0000, "Andy Pandy"
> wrote: >> To your first point: totally untrue. Most of the violence is related to the >> black market drug trade, not the use of the drugs. > >Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. That's because alcohol is very atypical in its propensity to induce violent behaviour. Most other drugs do not. -- Cynic |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Beware!! this message was crossposted
Salut/Hi Jasbird, le/on Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:34:52 GMT, tu disais/you said:- >I think even the wingers in news:alt.food.wine will be glad to >hear this news. Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts >don't lie. Ah, but will the half backs like it too? Or are you illiterate as well as provocative. Oops, I should take my own advice. DFTT http://i1.tinypic.com/mr4osm.jpg -- All the Best Ian Hoare http://www.souvigne.com mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website |
JASBIRD, THE CROSSPOSTING CRETON STRIKE AGAIN
On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:36:53 +1300, "st.helier"
> wrote: >Do not feed the troll. hypocrite. >If you really MUST respond to this rubbish, please delete the newsgroup(s) >to which you do not subscribe. > >Otherwise, take a look at - http://i1.tinypic.com/mr4osm.jpg > >st.helier Jasbird wrote: > > I think even the wingers in news:alt.food.wine will be glad to > hear this news. Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts > don't lie. > > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4692016.stm> > > Violence down amid pub law change OK, I admit it, I was wrong about the wingers. But I still think I'm right to take an optimistic view of human nature and to assume that good news is good. |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
On Wed, 8 Feb 2006 10:36:14 -0000, "Harry The Horse"
> wrote: >Jasbird wrote: >> I think even the wingers in news:alt.food.wine will be glad to >> hear this news. Deregulation leads to less crime - the facts >> don't lie. >> >> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4692016.stm> >> >> Violence down amid pub law change >> >> Violent crimes recorded by the police in England and Wales fell >> by 11% at the end of last year, despite longer pub opening hours >> coming in, figures show. >> >I don't see how these figures can saying anything about the effects of >longer pub opening hours and they came into effect in late November. > >> The Home Office figures for the last three months of 2005 >> include a six-week period when the police were given £2.5m to >> target alcohol-related crime. >> >> The figures are the first since licensing laws were changed in >> November to allow extended drinking hours. >> >> Police have said it will take longer to assess the full impact >> of the changes. >> >I would agree with the police. I would disagree with them (nearly always). The police were wrong on this one. They predicted a rise in violence and mayhem with the deregulation of opening hours. They are bound to say that the DECLINE in violence has nothing to do with the deregulation because they will NEVER admit that they are wrong. |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
"Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message ... > In article > "Andy Pandy" > writes: > >What is your prediction about what will happen to tobacco use rates if/when they ban > >smoking in pubs? > > > >What has the effect been of the *increasing* prohibition on smoking we've seen over > >the last 20 years or so? > > Banning smoking in pubs isn't the same thing as prohibition. Er, yes it is. Have a look in the dictionary. Prohibition of smoking in pubs, just like prohibition of smoking on trains, in the workplace etc. *is* prohibition. . Have you never seen "smoking prohibited" signs? It does *not* mean possession is illegal. > If simply possessing tobacco landed you in jail, THAT would be prohibition. That would be total prohibition. There is currently prohibition of smoking in certain places, like pubic transport etc, and which will probably be extended to pubs. -- Andy |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
"Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message ... > >> To your first point: totally untrue. Most of the violence is related to the > >> black market drug trade, not the use of the drugs. > > >Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. > > Not strange at all. It has nothing to do with legal status, but with a > property unique to alcohol. Ah yes of course - "alcohol is unique" so doesn't fit the arguments used about illegal drugs. Probably all drugs have unique properties. > Numerous studies have shown that the only drug that tends to provoke increased > violence in users is alcohol. Really? Not anabolic steriods, for instance? -- Andy |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 22:58:51 +0000, Andy Pandy wrote:
> What is your prediction about what will happen to tobacco use rates > if/when they ban smoking in pubs? It won't make much difference - smoking tobacco is still legal. The tobacco smokers will just have to congregate outside, just like the cannabis smokers do now. > What has the effect been of the *increasing* prohibition on smoking we've > seen over the last 20 years or so? It's not so much a case of increasing prohibition - smoking is still legal. It's increasing education and the removal of the "macho" status. James Bond no longer orders his shaken but not stirred with a cigarette dangling out of his mouth, like he did when I was young and impressionable. If you look at the films from the 1950s and early 60s all the sophisticates smoked. -- Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK Save Gales Brewery http://www.savegales.org.uk/ |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:06:02 -0700, Pete nospam Zakel wrote:
> Not strange at all. It has nothing to do with legal status, but with a > property unique to alcohol. I'd disagree that it's unique to alcohol. Other CNS depressants have the same effect. GHB, for example. -- Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK Save Gales Brewery http://www.savegales.org.uk/ |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 07:59:12 +0000, Andy Pandy wrote:
> anabolic steriods Another good example. -- Phil Stovell, South Hampshire, UK Save Gales Brewery http://www.savegales.org.uk/ |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
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Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
"Jasbird" > wrote in message ... >>> >>I would agree with the police. > > I would disagree with them (nearly always). The police were > wrong on this one. They predicted a rise in violence and mayhem > with the deregulation of opening hours. > And I thought that their prediction was a load of old baloney but one month's worth of data doesn't prove anything - one way or the other. > They are bound to say > that the DECLINE in violence has nothing to do with the > deregulation because they will NEVER admit that they are wrong. > But they haven't said that. They have said that it is too early to say, which it is. |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Phil Stovell wrote: > On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:09:49 -0800, wrote: > > > The use of alcohol can turn otherwise sensible people into aggressive > > sometimes even violent arseholes you must have noticed that, there are no > > other drugs that do the same in anything like way alcohol does. > > Alcohol + cocaine = smashed up pub. alcohol alone = smashed up pub - has happened a few times near me. cocaine alone = boring arseholes talking shit - never seen someone get violent on coke on it's own unless they've been on a long binge and are getting paranoid, alcohol can do that after a few hours.. > Happened to a pub near me, in rural > Hampshire. It recently re-opened as a family friendly pub and the coke > heads seem to have gone elsewhere (which I'll avoid if I find it by > accident). |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Phil Stovell wrote: > On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 07:59:12 +0000, Andy Pandy wrote: > > > anabolic steriods > > Another good example. violence is only a problem with anabolic steroids if the person has been using them for prolonged periods of time, it doesn't happen after short periods of use, certainly not within a few hours of first use. |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
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Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Andy Pandy wrote:
> > "Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message > ... > > >> To your first point: totally untrue. Most of the violence is related to the > > >> black market drug trade, not the use of the drugs. > > > > >Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. > > > > Not strange at all. It has nothing to do with legal status, but with a > > property unique to alcohol. > > Ah yes of course - "alcohol is unique" so doesn't fit the arguments used about > illegal drugs. Probably all drugs have unique properties. > > > Numerous studies have shown that the only drug that tends to provoke increased > > violence in users is alcohol. > > Really? Not anabolic steriods, for instance? > > -- > Andy "Of all psychoactive substances, alcohol is the only one whose consumption has been shown to commonly increase aggression. After large doses of amphetamines, cocaine, LSD, and PCP, certain individuals may experience violent outbursts, probably because of preexisting psychosis. Research is needed on the pharmacological effects of crack, which enters the brain more directly than cocaine used in other forms." "Alcohol drinking and violence are linked through pharmacological effects on behavior, through expectations that heavy drinking and violence go together in certain settings, and through patterns of binge drinking and fighting that sometimes develop in adolescence." "Illegal drugs and violence are linked primarily through drug marketing: disputes among rival distributors, arguments and robberies involving buyers and sellers, property crimes committed to raise drug money and, more speculatively, social and economic interactions between the illegal markets and the surrounding communities." Source: Psychoactive Substances and Violence by Jeffrey A. Roth Series: Research in Brief, US Dept. of Justice Published: February 1994 b -- citizen, patriot, stoner Marijuana: it's nowhere near as scary as they want you to think. truth: the Anti-drugwar http://www.briancbennett.com Nothing will ever change if we don't stand up for ourselves: http://cannabisconsumers.org "Cops say legalize drugs" ask them why: http://www.leap.cc |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
On 9 Feb 2006 06:26:09 -0800, "
> wrote: > >Phil Stovell wrote: >> On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:09:49 -0800, wrote: >> >> > The use of alcohol can turn otherwise sensible people into aggressive >> > sometimes even violent arseholes you must have noticed that, there are no >> > other drugs that do the same in anything like way alcohol does. >> >> Alcohol + cocaine = smashed up pub. > >alcohol alone = smashed up pub - I bet there was either loud music or sport on the telly to go with it. I've no figures to back it up but it's something I've noticed over the last 40 years that pubs with no juke box rarely have bother. Possibly booze and pounding exciting music together can be a stimulous for violence? > has happened a few times near me. >cocaine alone = boring arseholes talking shit - never seen someone get >violent on coke on it's own unless they've been on a long binge and are >getting paranoid, alcohol can do that after a few hours.. > >> Happened to a pub near me, in rural >> Hampshire. It recently re-opened as a family friendly pub and the coke >> heads seem to have gone elsewhere (which I'll avoid if I find it by >> accident). |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
In article > "Andy Pandy" > writes:
>"Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message ... >> In article > "Andy Pandy" > writes: >> >What is your prediction about what will happen to tobacco use rates if/when they >ban >> >smoking in pubs? >> > >> >What has the effect been of the *increasing* prohibition on smoking we've seen >over >> >the last 20 years or so? >> >> Banning smoking in pubs isn't the same thing as prohibition. >Er, yes it is. Have a look in the dictionary. > >Prohibition of smoking in pubs, just like prohibition of smoking on trains, in the >workplace etc. *is* prohibition. . Nit-picking. In the context of drugs, normally "prohibition" means making the drug contraband and illegal to possess. Local prohibitions, such as in pubs, restaurants, public area, are simply quite sensible alternatives to total prohibition. Should I be able to bring in a burning stick of incense into a pub and set it down next to me because I like the smell? >Have you never seen "smoking prohibited" signs? It does *not* mean possession is >illegal. Right, that's a local prohibition, not the same thing as making it totally contraband. There's a BIG difference. >> If simply possessing tobacco landed you in jail, THAT would be prohibition. >That would be total prohibition. There is currently prohibition of smoking in certain >places, like pubic transport etc, and which will probably be extended to pubs. And that's as it should be. You should not force other people to enjoy your habit. -Pete Zakel ) "The new Congressmen say they're going to turn the government around. I hope I don't get run over again." |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
In article > "Andy Pandy" > writes:
>"Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message ... >> >> To your first point: totally untrue. Most of the violence is related to the >> >> black market drug trade, not the use of the drugs. >> >> >Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. >> >> Not strange at all. It has nothing to do with legal status, but with a >> property unique to alcohol. >Ah yes of course - "alcohol is unique" so doesn't fit the arguments used about >illegal drugs. Probably all drugs have unique properties. Yes, almost all drugs have unique properties. For example, cannabis seems to be unique in that it doesn't seem to be able to cause a fatal overdose. Alcohol appears to be unique in its propensity to cause violence in users. >> Numerous studies have shown that the only drug that tends to provoke increased >> violence in users is alcohol. >Really? Not anabolic steriods, for instance? Almost all the studies of anabolic steroid use have shown that "roid rage" is a myth and doesn't actually occur. -Pete Zakel ) "You worry too much about your job. Stop it. You are not paid enough to worry." |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
In article > Phil Stovell > writes:
>On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:09:49 -0800, wrote: >> The use of alcohol can turn otherwise sensible people into aggressive >> sometimes even violent arseholes you must have noticed that, there are no >> other drugs that do the same in anything like way alcohol does. >Alcohol + cocaine = smashed up pub. Happened to a pub near me, in rural >Hampshire. It recently re-opened as a family friendly pub and the coke >heads seem to have gone elsewhere (which I'll avoid if I find it by >accident). Yup, alcohol causes violence, cocaine keeps the violent alcohol user from passing out. -Pete Zakel ) "Cauliflower is nothing but Cabbage with a College Education." -Mark Twain |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
"brian bennett" > wrote in message ... > "Of all psychoactive substances, alcohol is the only one whose > consumption has been shown to commonly increase aggression. I feel more aggressive after drinking caffine. Alcohol relaxes me, I feel less aggressive after drinking alcohol. > After large > doses of amphetamines, cocaine, LSD, and PCP, certain individuals may > experience violent outbursts, probably because of preexisting psychosis. So other drugs do cause violence then. > Research is needed on the pharmacological effects of crack, which enters > the brain more directly than cocaine used in other forms." So they don't know then. > "Alcohol drinking and violence are linked through pharmacological > effects on behavior, through expectations that heavy drinking and > violence go together in certain settings, and through patterns of binge > drinking and fighting that sometimes develop in adolescence." In other words, alcohol only results in violence when combined with specific other factors. In particular - when people go out *expecting* a fight, or looking for one, alcohol can reduce their inhibitions and so give them the balls to do what they wanted to do anyway. It's never caused me to be violent. And I've been in close contact with thousands of people who have consumed alcohol, often in large quantities, and I've never been a victim of violence from those people. I've only ever even witnessed violence as a (probable) result of alcohol 2 or 3 times. The vast majority of adults in the UK use alcohol, and only a very tiny minority are violent as a result. > "Illegal drugs and violence are linked primarily through drug marketing: > disputes among rival distributors, arguments and robberies involving > buyers and sellers, property crimes committed to raise drug money and, > more speculatively, social > and economic interactions between the illegal markets and the > surrounding communities." Indeed. Obviously any black market activity will be likely to have violence associated with it. That's a separate issue to whether a drug causes violence. -- Andy |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
> wrote in message ups.com... > > Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. > > The use of alcohol can turn otherwise sensible people into aggressive > sometimes even violent arseholes you must have noticed that, Nope. It reduces inhibitions, so someone who is a violent arsehole anyway is more likely to act in character. I've never know it turn genuinely sensible people violent. > there are > no other drugs that do the same in anything like way alcohol does. How many people do you think drink alcohol at least once a week? What pecrentage of them do you think are violent as a result? > Are you aware of what happened during alcohol prohibition in america, > people who sold and produced booze were exceptionally violent (e.g. Al > Capone) the same can not be said of the producers and distributors of > alcohol now that it's legally available, when was the last time you > heard about the owner of a bargain booze doing a drive by on a booze > buster? Like I said before - the black market is an obvious cause of violence, but that's got nothing to do with whether the drug causes violence amongst its users. -- Andy |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
Andy Pandy wrote: > > wrote in message > ups.com... > > > Strange how a legal drug like alcohol seems to cause so much violence then. > > > > The use of alcohol can turn otherwise sensible people into aggressive > > sometimes even violent arseholes you must have noticed that, > > Nope. It reduces inhibitions, so someone who is a violent arsehole anyway is more > likely to act in character. > I've never know it turn genuinely sensible people violent. so you live in a plastic bubble then? I've known several people who normally were pretty chilled out, but give them booze and they turn into aggressive arseholes. > > there are > > no other drugs that do the same in anything like way alcohol does. > > How many people do you think drink alcohol at least once a week? What pecrentage of > them do you think are violent as a result? a vastly higher proportion of users than for any other drug, including crack, and steroids. > > Are you aware of what happened during alcohol prohibition in america, > > people who sold and produced booze were exceptionally violent (e.g. Al > > Capone) the same can not be said of the producers and distributors of > > alcohol now that it's legally available, when was the last time you > > heard about the owner of a bargain booze doing a drive by on a booze > > buster? > > Like I said before - the black market is an obvious cause of violence, but that's got > nothing to do with whether the drug causes violence amongst its users. no, but it has a hell of alot to do with the overall level of violence attributable to a drug. |
Booze deregulation leads to 11% drop in violent crime
In article > "Andy Pandy" > writes:
>"Pete nospam Zakel" > wrote in message ... >> And that's as it should be. You should not force other people to enjoy your >> habit. >Quite. So you're in favour of prohibition then.... In your use of the term, yes. I and my wife prohibit tobacco smoking in our house. We don't support making tobacco illegal. We also prohibit playing of cricket, rugby, soccer (football), football (American football), basketball and most other sports in our house. We prohibit driving of cars in our house. We prohibit shooting of firearms in our house. I imaging most pubs also prohibit shooting of guns on the premises, and lots of other things. Why should prohibition of smoking of tobacco in a pubs be seen as a dire thing? -Pete Zakel ) Non-Reciprocal Laws of Expectations: Negative expectations yield negative results. Positive expectations yield negative results. |
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