Tried the NZ wine Pinot Noir tonight...2003 vintage. Very nice for new
world Pinot...move over Oregon...NZ is coming on strong.

Found this is Specialty Grocery Store that has wine steward in Charlotte,
NC....

Anyone know these Pinots?

"Richard Neidich" wrote in message .........

> Tried the NZ wine Pinot Noir tonight...2003 vintage. Very nice for new
> world Pinot...move over Oregon...
> NZ is coming on strong.

> Anyone know these Pinots?

Roaring Meg is what may be called a "young vine, second label" of Mt.
Difficulty where grapes are out-sourced from growers throughout Central
Otago.

As I recently discussed with Ian Hoare (who was underwhelmed with the Pinots
of NZ in general and Central Otago in particular), NZ *may* eventually lead
the world in producing the New World style of PN once the vines get a decade
or so age, and who knows what may transpire in a couple of hundred years
when we can draw on centuries of experience as they have in Burgundy.

Notwithstanding, there has been a lot of Pinot Noir planted in NZ over the
past 5 years or so - it will be very interesting to see if NZ does produce a
red wine to mirror the success of Sauvignon Blanc.

--

st.helier

I don't compare the NZ Pinot to a Burg...but it compares nicely to a
California or Oregon Pinot and prices well.

Burgs are different to me. They have an entirely different level of
complexity.

So sorry.



"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Richard Neidich" wrote in message .........
>
>> Tried the NZ wine Pinot Noir tonight...2003 vintage. Very nice for new
>> world Pinot...move over Oregon...
>> NZ is coming on strong.
>
>> Anyone know these Pinots?
>
> Roaring Meg is what may be called a "young vine, second label" of Mt.
> Difficulty where grapes are out-sourced from growers throughout Central
> Otago.
>
> As I recently discussed with Ian Hoare (who was underwhelmed with the
> Pinots of NZ in general and Central Otago in particular), NZ *may*
> eventually lead the world in producing the New World style of PN once the
> vines get a decade or so age, and who knows what may transpire in a couple
> of hundred years when we can draw on centuries of experience as they have
> in Burgundy.
>
> Notwithstanding, there has been a lot of Pinot Noir planted in NZ over the
> past 5 years or so - it will be very interesting to see if NZ does produce
> a red wine to mirror the success of Sauvignon Blanc.
>
> --
>
> st.helier
>

Salut/Hi Richard Neidich,

le/on Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:56:04 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>I don't compare the NZ Pinot to a Burg...but it compares nicely to a
>California or Oregon Pinot and prices well.
>
>Burgs are different to me. They have an entirely different level of
>complexity.
>
>So sorry.

I can't say that I agree 100%. At their very best, I've found some (a few,
admittedly) Oregon and Califunny PNs comparable in complexity and interest
to all but the very best (and most expensive) Burgundies. For example,
Domaine Drouhin's top PN was a delight, and certainly better than most
Burgundies (which I've frequently castigated for not being worthy of their
name). Williams Selyem, while being profoundly excentric is vastly better
(and more expensive) than most Burgs. So were the Goldeneye wines from
Anderson Valley, IMO.

Again, I've said this before, but it bears repeating, I think. I'd estimate
the proportion of uninteresting wine to good wine world wide as being around
5 or 10 to one. 80 to 90% of wines made world wide are without much interest
in other words. I'm NOT saying they're bad, just uninteresting. And of the
areas I've visited in the world and areas I know reasonably well, I'd
guesstimate the proportion doesn't very too much.

What fires me up in Burgundy particularly, is that it's a tiny area -
compared with other major wine areas in France - with a small production.
The area REALLY suits the Pinot Noir well, and with care and respect almost
ALL the wine made there could be interesting. So for carelessness and greed
and I don't know what else, these winemakers are - in my opinion - betraying
the heritage that they've got.

Of the NZ Pinot Noirs that I tasted while in Central Otago, there wasn't one
which I'd class in that league. As Andrew so justly said, it's hardly
suprising, as most of the vines have only been in the ground 4 years! "Old
vines" in Central Otago speak are vines that have been there 10 years. In
Burgundy, if I'm not mistaken, a village level wine (Chassagne-Montrachet)
for example, a wine can't GET even that relatively lowly appellation before
the vine's been there 7 years. So I'd not really criticise the winemakers
for their wine. I WOULD criticise journalists and publicists for puffing the
wine WAY beyond its merits.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

"Dick Neidich wrote.....

>> I don't compare the NZ Pinot to a Burg...but it compares nicely
>> to a California or Oregon Pinot.
>> Burgs are different to me. They have an entirely different level
>> of complexity.


While "Ian Hoare" replied (snipped a little for brevity!):-
>
> I can't say that I agree 100%. At their very best, I've found some
> (a few, admittedly) Oregon and Califunny PNs comparable in
> complexity and interest to all but the very best (and most expensive)
> Burgundies.
>
> What fires me up in Burgundy particularly, is that it's a tiny area -
> compared with other major wine areas in France - with a small production.
> The area REALLY suits the Pinot Noir well, and with care and respect
> almost
> ALL the wine made there could be interesting. So for carelessness and
> greed
> and I don't know what else, these winemakers are - in my opinion -
> betraying
> the heritage that they've got.
>
> Of the NZ Pinot Noirs that I tasted while in Central Otago, there wasn't
> one which I'd class in that league. As Andrew so justly said, it's hardly
> surprising, as most of the vines have only been in the ground 4 years!
> "Old Vines" in Central Otago speak are vines that have been there 10
> years.
> In Burgundy, if I'm not mistaken, a village level wine
> (Chassagne-Montrachet)
> for example, a wine can't GET even that relatively lowly appellation
> before
> the vine's been there 7 years.
>
> So I'd not really criticise the winemakers
> for their wine. I WOULD criticise journalists and publicists for puffing
> the wine WAY beyond its merits.

As I explained to Ian, my experience in Burgundy has been limited mainly to
the Joseph Drouhin wines obtainable here in NZ (with a bit of hunting) - and
then only to the lower/mid range; and certainly not with any age.

However, in the space of two weeks I have been able to make a telling
comparison.

Whilst dining with Ian & Jacquie, to accompany the Coq au vin, Ian served a
1989 Nuits 1er Cru " Les St Georges " from Henri Gouges - here was a
beautiful wine with bouquet rather than aroma; a gorgeously elegant wine
with nuances of savouriness and hints of spice which you *discovered*.

In front of me now is a Villa Maria Single Vineyard Taylors Pass Pinot Noir
2003 - a very highly regarded Marlborough PN. I swear that the winemaker
thought he was making a blockbuster Australian Shiraz - it is a deep,
brooding wine (over-extracted??) which assaults the senses; sure, smoky
vanillin from the oak; ripe cherries in abundance; enough acid to suggest
that this *might* age - but in no way could you use the words "elegant" or
"finesse" when describing this one.

I certainly hope that this is *not* the future direction of NZ Pinot Noir.

--

st.helier

Mike, we absolutely loved our whole trip (OK, maybe with the exception of
the 26 hour each way flight(s) - but, rest assured, His Lordship will
return - sooner rather than later.

Regards to Kathy,

Oh yes, purchased three bottles of the St.Anne Bandol - one corked -
bugger!!!!!!!!

--

st.helier

"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Dick Neidich wrote.....
>
>>> I don't compare the NZ Pinot to a Burg...but it compares nicely
>>> to a California or Oregon Pinot.
>>> Burgs are different to me. They have an entirely different level
>>> of complexity.
>
>
> While "Ian Hoare" replied (snipped a little for brevity!):-
>>
>> I can't say that I agree 100%. At their very best, I've found some
>> (a few, admittedly) Oregon and Califunny PNs comparable in
>> complexity and interest to all but the very best (and most expensive)
>> Burgundies.

> As I explained to Ian, my experience in Burgundy has been limited mainly
> to the Joseph Drouhin wines obtainable here in NZ (with a bit of
> hunting) - and then only to the lower/mid range; and certainly not with
> any age.
>
> However, in the space of two weeks I have been able to make a telling
> comparison.
>
> Whilst dining with Ian & Jacquie, to accompany the Coq au vin, Ian served
> a 1989 Nuits 1er Cru " Les St Georges " from Henri Gouges - here was a
> beautiful wine with bouquet rather than aroma; a gorgeously elegant wine
> with nuances of savouriness and hints of spice which you *discovered*.
>
> In front of me now is a Villa Maria Single Vineyard Taylors Pass Pinot
> Noir
> I certainly hope that this is *not* the future direction of NZ Pinot Noir.


I'm no expert, but in a good year (and with PN, vintage really really
matters), Jane Hunter made a good PN. Sadly, like the French, in a good
year, the price went up, and did not come down in a bad years!

>"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
>
>> As I explained to Ian, my experience in Burgundy has been limited mainly
>> to the Joseph Drouhin wines obtainable here in NZ (with a bit of
>> hunting) - and then only to the lower/mid range; and certainly not with
>> any age.
>>

Who in this forum has had the opportunity to try a Domaine Drouhin PN?
This is an Oregon winery started by the same family. I believe a
daughter of one of the principals of JD is winemaker. I'm not pushing
this wine, although it's considered one of Oregon's best. It would
provide an excellent opportunity to compare Burgundian and Oregon
PN's.

Vino
After a long absence

Vino > wrote in
:

>
>>"st.helier" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>>> As I explained to Ian, my experience in Burgundy has been limited
>>> mainly to the Joseph Drouhin wines obtainable here in NZ (with a bit
>>> of hunting) - and then only to the lower/mid range; and certainly
>>> not with any age.
>>>
>
> Who in this forum has had the opportunity to try a Domaine Drouhin PN?
> This is an Oregon winery started by the same family. I believe a
> daughter of one of the principals of JD is winemaker. I'm not pushing
> this wine, although it's considered one of Oregon's best. It would
> provide an excellent opportunity to compare Burgundian and Oregon
> PN's.
>
> Vino
> After a long absence
>

It is on my list of things to drink when someone else is buying!


--
Joseph Coulter
Cruises and Vacations
http://www.josephcoulter.com/

Vino wrote:
> Who in this forum has had the opportunity to try a Domaine Drouhin PN?
> This is an Oregon winery started by the same family. I believe a
> daughter of one of the principals of JD is winemaker. I'm not pushing
> this wine, although it's considered one of Oregon's best. It would
> provide an excellent opportunity to compare Burgundian and Oregon
> PN's.
>
> Vino
> After a long absence

welcome back!

I've tried the DDO PN in 3 or 4 vintages,and generally liked. I think
it's less a question of better/worse than the Drouhin Burgs in same
price range ($25-30) than different. I'd probably prefer the '01
Drouhin Chambolle to the '01 DDO, but that's more a question of my
tastes than quality.

Once you get above $45 I'd personally give the edge to a well-chosen
Burgundy than any Oregon wine I've tasted.

Of course, all of our opinions are mostly based on the limited samples
of what we find available. My opinions of Burgundy are probably more
positive than Ian's because:
1) though I've had some that were hand-carried from cellar door, most
Burgs I've tasted come through some pretty quality minded importers.
2)then, 99% of the Burgs I buy come from stores with long history of
good selectivity with Burgundy (and other wines). Random samples from
supermarkets or Joe's Liquor (and Wine) Emporium would fare worse.
3) lastly, I buy by producer - either ones I've liked, or ones
recommended by folks I trust.
So I don't find Burgundy particularly problematic. If I tasted randomly
in Burgundy my views might well change. What's available in the
Dordogne is different. And what was available in London years ago, too.
That's not meant as a dig at Ian, just pointing out what he has tasted
as typical Burgundy and what I have are differnet.
That said, I've had some seriously bad wines - including Grand Crus-
from crappy negociants, and a few bad growers.

Vino wrote:


> Who in this forum has had the opportunity to try a Domaine Drouhin PN?
> This is an Oregon winery started by the same family. I believe a
> daughter of one of the principals of JD is winemaker. I'm not pushing
> this wine, although it's considered one of Oregon's best. It would
> provide an excellent opportunity to compare Burgundian and Oregon
> PN's.

I've tried many years of Dom. Drouhin's regular bottling and one or two
cuveé Laurenes. Early on, they were a bit pricey, but the best OR Pinot
I'd tasted and better than most CA Pinots as well. As time has gone on,
their prices have stayed (relatively) constant while their competitors'
prices have increased to comparable levels, making DD a reasonable
value. However, IMO their quality has declined a bit since the late
'80s and I don't find myself bowled over by their wines nowadays. They
are still elegant and attractive renditions of Pinot Noir and good
matches for food. I find them fundamentally different from most
Burgundies, being softer and more fruit-forward. I suspect that a
5-year old DD might pass for a somewhat older village-level Burgundy,
but I haven't done the test.

Mark Lipton

I have enjoyed Drouhin PN but we hardly ever get it in the stores here.
If it is still drinking well it might be worth importing. Just got a
mailing from Benchmark wines who buy up cellars and resell. They are
showing a Marcassin PN for $349 per bottle. I Had to look at that three
times to believe it. Short of La Tache or its ilk what PN could be worth
$349?


In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:

> Vino wrote:
>
>
> > Who in this forum has had the opportunity to try a Domaine Drouhin PN?
> > This is an Oregon winery started by the same family. I believe a
> > daughter of one of the principals of JD is winemaker. I'm not pushing
> > this wine, although it's considered one of Oregon's best. It would
> > provide an excellent opportunity to compare Burgundian and Oregon
> > PN's.
>
> I've tried many years of Dom. Drouhin's regular bottling and one or two
> cuveé Laurenes. Early on, they were a bit pricey, but the best OR Pinot
> I'd tasted and better than most CA Pinots as well. As time has gone on,
> their prices have stayed (relatively) constant while their competitors'
> prices have increased to comparable levels, making DD a reasonable
> value. However, IMO their quality has declined a bit since the late
> '80s and I don't find myself bowled over by their wines nowadays. They
> are still elegant and attractive renditions of Pinot Noir and good
> matches for food. I find them fundamentally different from most
> Burgundies, being softer and more fruit-forward. I suspect that a
> 5-year old DD might pass for a somewhat older village-level Burgundy,
> but I haven't done the test.
>
> Mark Lipton

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> I have enjoyed Drouhin PN but we hardly ever get it in the stores here.
> If it is still drinking well it might be worth importing. Just got a
> mailing from Benchmark wines who buy up cellars and resell. They are
> showing a Marcassin PN for $349 per bottle. I Had to look at that three
> times to believe it. Short of La Tache or its ilk what PN could be worth
> $349?

I got that same email, Larry. They always seem to price their "cult" CA
wines very high (did you see that Marcassin's chards are also selling
for $349?). Ironically, you can get the '70 LLC from them for a very
reasonable price. To each their own...

Mark Lipton

I had the opportunity to try a 1999 Marcassin Blue Slide Ridge Pinot
Noir and while it was nice I didn't like it as much as some of
Martinelli's pinot noirs.

My experience is that while there are some wonderful red Burgundies,
it's hit or miss even if you're spending $100 a bottle. For $40-$60 a
bottle Martinelli has some fabulous pinots and there are a few other
California pinots that are consistently good and quite a number of nice
Oregon pinots, all for less than you'd pay to have something from
Burgundy.

Shaun Eli
http://www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for the Smarter Audience (sm)

Shaun Eli wrote:
> I had the opportunity to try a 1999 Marcassin Blue Slide Ridge Pinot
> Noir and while it was nice I didn't like it as much as some of
> Martinelli's pinot noirs.
>
> My experience is that while there are some wonderful red Burgundies,
> it's hit or miss even if you're spending $100 a bottle. For $40-$60 a
> bottle Martinelli has some fabulous pinots and there are a few other
> California pinots that are consistently good and quite a number of nice
> Oregon pinots, all for less than you'd pay to have something from
> Burgundy.

Shaun,
You echo a common sentiment, but it's actually quite possible to find
value and reliability in Burgundy, too. Speaking as one who came late
to Bourgogne appreciation, I can tell you that for all of their
insistence on terroir, it's the vintner's identity that is the biggest
guarantor of quality. However, from your description of your CA Pinot
preferences, I think it unlikely that you'll find Burgundy quite your
cup of tea -- Burgundy to me is about finesse and perfume rather than
power and fruit (although there are plenty of powerful, fruity
Burgundies, too).

Mark Lipton

Rose Petals?

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
news:a4G3f.244494$084.56601@attbi_s22...
> Shaun Eli wrote:
>> I had the opportunity to try a 1999 Marcassin Blue Slide Ridge Pinot
>> Noir and while it was nice I didn't like it as much as some of
>> Martinelli's pinot noirs.
>>
>> My experience is that while there are some wonderful red Burgundies,
>> it's hit or miss even if you're spending $100 a bottle. For $40-$60 a
>> bottle Martinelli has some fabulous pinots and there are a few other
>> California pinots that are consistently good and quite a number of nice
>> Oregon pinots, all for less than you'd pay to have something from
>> Burgundy.
>
> Shaun,
> You echo a common sentiment, but it's actually quite possible to find
> value and reliability in Burgundy, too. Speaking as one who came late
> to Bourgogne appreciation, I can tell you that for all of their
> insistence on terroir, it's the vintner's identity that is the biggest
> guarantor of quality. However, from your description of your CA Pinot
> preferences, I think it unlikely that you'll find Burgundy quite your
> cup of tea -- Burgundy to me is about finesse and perfume rather than
> power and fruit (although there are plenty of powerful, fruity
> Burgundies, too).
>
> Mark Lipton

"Vino" in :
> . . .
> Who in this forum has had the opportunity to try a Domaine Drouhin PN?
> This is an Oregon winery started by the same family. . . . It would
> provide an excellent opportunity to compare Burgundian and Oregon PN's.

Domaine Drouhin has further significance from a French perspective, as an
outpost or emissary of Burgundian winemaking, and is familiar to winemaker
families in Burgundy (especially Côte de Beaune), often at first hand.

Last year when I visited producers in Burgundy the subject came up first,
naturally enough, from Véronique Drouhin at Joseph Drouhin in Beaune, who
was departing for Oregon for the 2004 harvest. Of other younger-generation
winemakers we met -- the 30-35 year olds who combine tradition with new open
ideas (and often seem to marry each other's cousins, it's a tight-knit
world) a number cited internships at DD. It was the New World firm I heard
of most often. (Benjamin Laroux at Domaine du Comte Armand worked in New
Zealand and Oregon. Where in Oregon? DD.)

By the way it was (British-educated and -accented) young Jeremey Seysses (of
Domaine Dujac) who quipped, when he came to dinner, how many of those
numerous "Comtes" in Burgundy were Papal titles rather than (he didn't quite
say) real French ones.


"Mark Lipton" in news:a4G3f.244494$084.56601@attbi_s22 :
> Shaun Eli wrote:
>> ...
>> My experience is that while there are some wonderful red
>> Burgundies, it's hit or miss even if you're spending $100 a bottle.
>
> Shaun,
> You echo a common sentiment, but it's actually quite possible to find
> value and reliability in Burgundy, too. Speaking as one who came late to
> Bourgogne appreciation, I can tell you that for all of their insistence on
> terroir, it's the vintner's identity that is the biggest guarantor of
> quality. However, from your description of your CA Pinot preferences, I
> think it unlikely that you'll find Burgundy quite your cup of tea --
> Burgundy to me is about finesse and perfume rather than power and fruit
> (although there are plenty of powerful, fruity Burgundies, too).

I agree strongly about the values and producers, from experience. It does
take experience I think (anyway it did for me) to consistently expect to
find values in Burgundy, but I've found many in the last 15 years. When I
was first interested in Pinots, being in California, I had no choice but
learn Burgundies because few Californian producers had the knack with that
difficult grape then (before the middle1980s or so). John Haeger's recent
book _North American Pinot Noir_ fleshes out this history helpfully. It is
only in the last 10 or 15 years that North American wine newbies had the
luxury of ignoring Burgundies if they wanted to know Pinot Noir, so far have
the products evolved. (With eager help from France, as above.)

Cheers -- Max

> Rose Petals?
>

No Dick, bicycle petals!!!!!

Rose Petals is what I think of on the nose of Burgs...not perfume...roses
petals.

It's obvious that you like a different style of burg them I.




"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
>> Rose Petals?
>>
>
> No Dick, bicycle petals!!!!!
>
>
>

Shaun,
I understand your point. But two points:
1) as Mark L points out, we all have our palate/style preferences, and
so some folks prefer California while others prefer Burgundy. And more
power to all of us.
2) that being said, it's not quite an equal comparison to contrast
"Burgundy" with "a few California pinots". As Mark Lipton (again)
noted, in Burgundy most fans believe that the 3 most important things
are "producer, producer, and producer" No one contests the fact there
is (expensive) crap produced in Burgundy. But I can buy M. Lafarge,
d'Angerville, de Courcel, Comte Armand, de Montille, Roumier, Mugnier,
D. Bachelet, R. Chevillon with more confidence than any CA producer
(for MY tastes).

Richard Neidich wrote:
> Rose Petals is what I think of on the nose of Burgs...not perfume...roses
> petals.
>
> It's obvious that you like a different style of burg them I.

Dick,
I think that you misunderstood my use of the term "perfume." I think
of certain wines as perfumed, meaning that the bouquet is both
incredibly complex and delicate. I would place aged Burgundy in that
category, along with Cote-Rotie, traditional Rioja and aged Nebbiolos
(esp. Barbaresco). Although I can't say that I've found much evidence
of rose petals in PN (though I have in Gewürz from Alsace), I'd say that
that falls within the purview of what I call "perfume." (After all,
geraniol, the prime constituent of rose's aroma, is also a major
component of some perfumes ;-))

Mark Lipton

Which of these smells of bike pedals? We need to find a wine for Hellier he
would like :-)

Apparantly they do like weird stuff in the land down under.



"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
news:5V_3f.248688$084.129755@attbi_s22...
> Richard Neidich wrote:
>> Rose Petals is what I think of on the nose of Burgs...not perfume...roses
>> petals.
>>
>> It's obvious that you like a different style of burg them I.
>
> Dick,
> I think that you misunderstood my use of the term "perfume." I think
> of certain wines as perfumed, meaning that the bouquet is both
> incredibly complex and delicate. I would place aged Burgundy in that
> category, along with Cote-Rotie, traditional Rioja and aged Nebbiolos
> (esp. Barbaresco). Although I can't say that I've found much evidence
> of rose petals in PN (though I have in Gewürz from Alsace), I'd say that
> that falls within the purview of what I call "perfume." (After all,
> geraniol, the prime constituent of rose's aroma, is also a major
> component of some perfumes ;-))
>
> Mark Lipton

That certainly explains the fowl comments of Lord Hellier----

He likes to drink bike pedals...amazing.

So instead of the barnyard of Bordeaux its the kitty litter of NZ or the
Chicken Coop. Interesting. :-)



"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> Richard Neidich wrote:
>> Which of these smells of bike pedals? We need to find a wine for Hellier
>> he would like :-)
>>
>> Apparantly they do like weird stuff in the land down under.
>
>
>
> In the southern hemisphere the aromnas are inverted, pinot noir smells of
> cat pee and sauvignon blanc smells of chicken poo.
>
> These are sometimes blended for "Cuvee One and Two".
>
> ;-)
>
> --
> Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

This is what comes out of having a weird sense of humour, and an imperfect
memory.

This was a small excerpt from one of those humourous radio dialogues of the
40's - English I think?????

And try as I might Google, I cannot find any reference to the source.

Young man says to his girlfriend "You have lips like petals!"

(She) "Rose petals?"

(He) "No! Bicycle petals"

I thought that it might be Flanders and Swan - but it appears not - probably
predating them.

Sorry for confusion - oh yes, Tommasi, I am sure that you will find that
the Sauvignon I left with you might have hints of cats pee, but I know from
experience that chicken shit reeks of ammonia - perhaps you have had more
experience in wines containing this less-than-desirable quality than I.

--

st.helier

You really are the sensitive type....I did not realize that!!!!


"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> This is what comes out of having a weird sense of humour, and an imperfect
> memory.
>
> This was a small excerpt from one of those humourous radio dialogues of
> the 40's - English I think?????
>
> And try as I might Google, I cannot find any reference to the source.
>
> Young man says to his girlfriend "You have lips like petals!"
>
> (She) "Rose petals?"
>
> (He) "No! Bicycle petals"
>
> I thought that it might be Flanders and Swan - but it appears not -
> probably predating them.
>
> Sorry for confusion - oh yes, Tommasi, I am sure that you will find that
> the Sauvignon I left with you might have hints of cats pee, but I know
> from experience that chicken shit reeks of ammonia - perhaps you have had
> more experience in wines containing this less-than-desirable quality than
> I.
>
> --
>
> st.helier
>

"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message .......

> Dear antipodean friend, I was just quoting Voltaire... I must be lucky, I
> have never smelled "merde" in Burgundy. I guess I am not buying expensive
> enough bottles.
>

I am lead to believe that brett has occasionally shown in Domaine Tempier's
Bandols - or is someone talking "merde"?


> Hey, we are going to get some people in the know together one of these
> evenings and crack open the Mt Difficulty and the cat pee


Now remember, my motivation in bringing these wines was *not* as an advocate
for the NZ industry - it was so that you could show your friends why the UK
is now buying two million cases of NZ wines a year, which they formerly
sourced from France.

And for goodness sake, keep pushing the Stelvin closure thing to your
friends Mike - opened our second corked Ste Anne Bandol yesterday (it was a
quiet birthday meal, celebrating my 5#th, at a very nice local restaurant,
who begrudgingly consented to my bringing my own wine for the occasion -
really ****ed me off!!!)

--

st.helier

Ah, but don't forget there are other states who produce very good to
excellent PN such as Oregon, Washington, and even New Mexico, plus NZ
PN's as well.

In article .com>,
"DaleW" > wrote:

> Shaun,
> I understand your point. But two points:
> 1) as Mark L points out, we all have our palate/style preferences, and
> so some folks prefer California while others prefer Burgundy. And more
> power to all of us.
> 2) that being said, it's not quite an equal comparison to contrast
> "Burgundy" with "a few California pinots". As Mark Lipton (again)
> noted, in Burgundy most fans believe that the 3 most important things
> are "producer, producer, and producer" No one contests the fact there
> is (expensive) crap produced in Burgundy. But I can buy M. Lafarge,
> d'Angerville, de Courcel, Comte Armand, de Montille, Roumier, Mugnier,
> D. Bachelet, R. Chevillon with more confidence than any CA producer
> (for MY tastes).
>