Salut/Hi Leo Bueno,

le/on Fri, 28 Jan 2005 05:01:22 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>
>Here is the claim:
>
>"Eisch has created breathable crystal that aerates your wine in just
>minutes.

>Is it true?

No way. What aerates wine is exposure to air. Ie you remove it from the
bottle in which it is stored and pour it into another container. The air
exposure comes about during the pouring process. Even if they have managed
to invent a porous glass (which I think is about as probable as inventing a
perpetual motor), the exposure to air would still be vastly more significant
from the _process_ of decantation than the ingress of oxygen via the pores
of the glass.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi Leo Bueno,

As a further follow up, I did what you could have done. I look at Eisch's
web site.


le/on Fri, 28 Jan 2005 05:01:22 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>"Eisch has created breathable crystal that aerates your wine in just
>minutes.

There is no mention of this on their web site.

All they talk about is a new shape of decanter/funnel.

http://www.eisch.de/eng/website/news...star/index.php

I've not checked up on Mr Wiegand's qualifications. He does exist, and had a
bad head-on collision in his car in 2000 it seems.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Here is the claim:

"Eisch has created breathable crystal that aerates your wine in just
minutes. This novel development is hard to believe, but really works.
The crystal has undergone a proprietary treatment that allows wine to
aerate in just two to four minutes. More importantly, the glasses will
never lose their ability to improve your best wines and can be washed
just like other glasses -- no special treatment required. Hand-blown
of lead-free crystal, these glasses are extremely durable. Taste for
yourself, the proof is in the glass."

"Ronn R. Wiegand, Master of Wine & Master Sommelier and Publisher of
Restaurant Wine on breathable glasses:
"I was skeptical about the claim of 'breathable glasses' but was
convinved of their unique qualities after serious taste-testing in my
office with dozens of different wine types. I found that the glasses
made the wines tasted from them -- after 2 or 3 minutes -- smoother
and more integrated than the same wines served in comparable glasses
from other suppliers.""

http://www.iwawine.com/orstore/ShowI...ctID=WG119-100

Is it true?


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=================================================
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Leo Bueno > wrote:

> Is it true?

Nope.

M.

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> Leo Bueno > wrote:
>
>> Is it true?
>
> Nope.
>
> M.
Hi
Quote: "Ronn R. Wiegand, Master of Wine & Master Sommelier and Publisher of
Restaurant Wine on breathable glasses:"

Who is that? Did he say that?
Anders

Wouldn't it leak?

David E

"Leo Bueno" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Eisch has created breathable crystal that aerates your wine in just
> minutes. This novel development is hard to believe, but really works.
> The crystal has undergone a proprietary treatment that allows wine to

Leo Bueno wrote:

>
> http://www.iwawine.com/orstore/ShowI...ctID=WG119-100
>
> Is it true?

I doubt it. It sounds like magnets to me.

Dana

Dana H. Myers wrote:
> Leo Bueno wrote:

>> http://www.iwawine.com/orstore/ShowI...ctID=WG119-100
>> Is it true?
> I doubt it. It sounds like magnets to me.
> Dana

I think you have uncovered the secret, Magnetic Glass!

Leo Bueno > wrote in
:

>
> Here is the claim:
>
> "Eisch has created breathable crystal that aerates your wine in just
> minutes. This novel development is hard to believe, but really works.
> The crystal has undergone a proprietary treatment that allows wine to
> aerate in just two to four minutes. More importantly, the glasses will
> never lose their ability to improve your best wines and can be washed
> just like other glasses -- no special treatment required. Hand-blown
> of lead-free crystal, these glasses are extremely durable. Taste for
> yourself, the proof is in the glass."
>
> "Ronn R. Wiegand, Master of Wine & Master Sommelier and Publisher of
> Restaurant Wine on breathable glasses:
> "I was skeptical about the claim of 'breathable glasses' but was
> convinved of their unique qualities after serious taste-testing in my
> office with dozens of different wine types. I found that the glasses
> made the wines tasted from them -- after 2 or 3 minutes -- smoother
> and more integrated than the same wines served in comparable glasses
> from other suppliers.""
>
> http://www.iwawine.com/orstore/ShowI...ctID=WG119-100
>
> Is it true?

One of my favorite sayings is "It sounds like bullshit to me." I think this
qualifies.

Fred.

In article >,
says...
>
>
>Here is the claim:
>
>"Eisch has created breathable crystal that aerates your wine in just
>minutes. This novel development is hard to believe, but really works.
>The crystal has undergone a proprietary treatment that allows wine to
>aerate in just two to four minutes. More importantly, the glasses will
>never lose their ability to improve your best wines and can be washed
>just like other glasses -- no special treatment required. Hand-blown
>of lead-free crystal, these glasses are extremely durable. Taste for
>yourself, the proof is in the glass."
>
>"Ronn R. Wiegand, Master of Wine & Master Sommelier and Publisher of
>Restaurant Wine on breathable glasses:
>"I was skeptical about the claim of 'breathable glasses' but was
>convinved of their unique qualities after serious taste-testing in my
>office with dozens of different wine types. I found that the glasses
>made the wines tasted from them -- after 2 or 3 minutes -- smoother
>and more integrated than the same wines served in comparable glasses
>from other suppliers.""
>
>http://www.iwawine.com/orstore/ShowI...ctID=WG119-100
>
>Is it true?

Leo,

I have no experience with this product, so I cannot refute the claims,
however, I think they would make great accessories should one wish to make
obscene telephone calls. Imagine placing some of these "breathing" glasses
next to the mouthpiece of the telephone... :-)

I feel that these are rather like the "magnets," as others have stated, and
will just continue to decant, and swirl, when I think my wine needs aeration.

Hunt

Eisch hasn't posted the breathable stemware to their site, yet, because
they're just now in mass production. This stemware was exclusively used
at the Greystone CIA facility in Napa for Robert Parker's 25th
Anniversary. RP will be commenting on breathable stemware shortly. Who
Ronn Wiegand is... the first person in the US to hold both MS and MW
certificates. He also received special recognition for achieving both
with ultra high scores. He's got one of the best, most classily trained
palates in the world, is a world-wide traveler (about to go to Greece
in a week), and widely sought-out by wine professionals (both for
tasting of their wines for evaluation, and for conducting seminars).
Breathable glass is a proprietary process, and inventor Alan Zalayet is
not going to patent the process, just produce the stemware. Paul
Manchester and I have been working with winemakers to create a Petite
Sirah glass in this line. (I started a group with Louis M. Foppiano
called PS I Love You. It's a group of PS growers and producers).
Winemakers involved in this PS glass development process are the
following: Foppiano's Bill Regan, Concannon's Adam Richardson,
Rosenblum's Jeff Cohn (JC Cellars is his own label, too), Paul Dolan
(Fetzer fame who now owns Parducci, among other labels), Parducci's Bob
Swain, Trentadue's Miro Tcholakov, Pacific Star's Sally Ottoson, Field
Stone's Tom Mulligan, Robert Biale's Al Perry, Silkwood's John Monnich
(Proprietor), Mettler's Larry Mettler, and Lolonis's Ed West (I think I
got them all)... After working through two phases of development for a
perfect Petite Sirah glass, and as you all know, this is the varietal
that will surely benefit from immediate decanting, all of these
winemakers agree, breathable glasses work. I sat on the panel, too, so
I'm included in this belief. You'll be hearing more about this as the
year goes on, and some of you will give them a try (for your own
edification. We all went into the tasting as skeptics. Not one of us is
skeptical now. We were able to pour each winemaker's PS in a breathable
and non-breathable glass of the exact same design. The breathable
glasses showed really well. They did indeed cause the tannins to
rapidly soften, and bring the black fruit forward much quicker than the
non-breathable prototypes. And, no, the glasses aren't porous. Nothing
leaks out of the glass ;^) (Three) Cheers for Eisch! -- jo

On 6 Feb 2005 09:04:51 -0800, "jo" >
wrote:

>Eisch hasn't posted the breathable stemware to their site, yet, because
>they're just now in mass production. This stemware was exclusively used
>at the Greystone CIA facility in Napa for Robert Parker's 25th
>Anniversary. RP will be commenting on breathable stemware shortly. Who
>Ronn Wiegand is... the first person in the US to hold both MS and MW
>certificates. He also received special recognition for achieving both
>with ultra high scores. He's got one of the best, most classily trained
>palates in the world, is a world-wide traveler (about to go to Greece
>in a week), and widely sought-out by wine professionals (both for
>tasting of their wines for evaluation, and for conducting seminars).
>Breathable glass is a proprietary process, and inventor Alan Zalayet is
>not going to patent the process, just produce the stemware. Paul
>Manchester and I have been working with winemakers to create a Petite
>Sirah glass in this line.

The mere fact that the manufacturer is trying to create a glass shape
for a particular variety makes me even more skeptical about this
breathable glass business. I can only see the ad copy: "glass shape
created by winemakers". Still sounds like hocus-pocus to me.

If "breathing" means exposure to and a reaction with oxygen, then the
process has to be either physical or chemical. The stuff is not
porous and I suspect there are no tiny nano-propellers swirling inside
the glass, or miniature heaters either, so the other way I can
conceive of having the wine increase its breathing is chemically.

One possible way that comes to mind is for the glass to have a
controlled release of an oxidant, but this sounds far-fetched, plus,
it amounts to adulterating the wine.

Alternatively, perhaps, the manufacture is immobilizing an enzyme on
the glass surface which speeds up the breathing process, but I suspect
the FDA would have a say in this matter, given human consumption is
involved; also, one good run through a dish washer would probably wipe
it out.

So, count me in as part of the skeptics.


--
=================================================
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=================================================

"jo" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Eisch hasn't posted the breathable stemware to their site, etc, etc, etc.

All sounds very impressive.
I'm sure the inventor must have done
extensive mass spectrometer tests
showing the permeability of this wonder-glass
to various gasses.

Anything you'd care to share?

On 6 Feb 2005 09:04:51 -0800, "jo" >
wrote:


>Breathable glass is a proprietary process, and inventor Alan Zalayet is
>not going to patent the process, just produce the stemware.

Because one cannot patent a marketing gimmick perhaps?


--
=================================================
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=================================================

Leo Bueno wrote:

> The mere fact that the manufacturer is trying to create a glass shape
> for a particular variety makes me even more skeptical about this
> breathable glass business. I can only see the ad copy: "glass shape
> created by winemakers". Still sounds like hocus-pocus to me.
> If "breathing" means exposure to and a reaction with oxygen, then the
> process has to be either physical or chemical. The stuff is not
> porous and I suspect there are no tiny nano-propellers swirling inside
> the glass, or miniature heaters either, so the other way I can
> conceive of having the wine increase its breathing is chemically.


My first statement on this was that maybe the porous glass was made of
magnets so I was also a doubter.

Do you think maybe our criticism of the breathable glass is caused by
our very narrow focus on porous glass rather than a shape that will
perhaps cause the the wine to move around in the glass. I think we
should be open minded until we find out what the technology is. So
far the criticism in the group has not been any better founded than the
porous glass.
Bill

Guess you don't know that Riedle's Hermitage glass ($75 buck a pop)
also had a glass shaping panel, with Al Perry of Robert Biale and Jeff
Cohn of Rosenblum sitting on those panels, among others. I didn't know
anything about this either, as there's lots that goes on in this
business that's private and proprietary. Then, I started to investigae
why I had to taste a Petite Sirah in a Syrah glass during Foppiano's
Annual Petite Sirah Noble Symposium (and I know that you don't know
about this event, either, as it's only open to growers and producers).
I'm currently organizing year number 4.

The greatest gift the glass industry can give consumers is a group of
experts putting their collective palates together to help a glass
designer do it right... Also, do you not know that all glass companies
have glasses styled for particular varietals? Bordeaux glasses,
Burgundy glasses, Sauvignon Blanc glasses, etc.?

I have a press release that I just sent to a media person who's reading
this stream. His curiosity is totally piqued. I find the wirters that I
have relationships with are totally awed by the info that I have...
that's good enough for me. May your glass always be half full, as
Robert Parker says on his recorded phone message. I like his style!

The inventor hasn't shared his process. If he patents his process, his
trade secrets will become everyone's baby. Not going to happen any time
soon. Alan sits in the Bavarian Forest and dreams up so many
innovations, that he was the only one to take me seriously, when I said
that I wanted to drink my Petite from a Petite glass... The French
don't recognize Petite as a Rhone varietal; therefore, why should we
drink this American varietal in a glass designed for the father grape
of Petite Sirah... Syrah (mother is Peloursin).

Interestingly, there are only three people in the world that know Alan
Zalayet's process: Alan himself, and two people in Germany who are
glass blowers with his company. Actually, I don't care what he's done
to make these glasses so awesome... And, beyond wondering how, the
winemakers on the panel didn't press it, either. The bottom line for
all of us was, we tasted some of the best Petite Sirahs out there
collectively, including what was brought out from their cellars as
library wines (86 Foppiano, 83 Parducci, 92 Concannon), and they
rocked! They also didn't completely fall apart, which was an immediate
concern by all of us.

I've got to go back and find out (I think it's Al Perry with Robert
Biale), but before we knew it, they called themselves "Winemakers in
Space!" Some of the Petite's were reaching toward 16 percent alcohol.
The Phase I glasses had globes with the bowl's opening being very
large, so the alcohol was delivered first. Sniffing through all of
their wines, we began to realize why the first set wouldn't work. Phase
II glasses were delivered with a much tighter rim, and hands-down, of
the two glasses (along with the first set of three), the glass designed
to be the Petite glass was nearly everyone's favorite -- We voted
democratically, and we now have a glass that not only softens tannins,
but it also delivers exceptional fruit.

There couldn't be a chemical involved, or the super-sensitive palates
of these guys would have immediately have picked this up... Plus, let's
see... do I trust someone like Ronn Wiegand with his MS & MW over
anyone else? Yup... The old adage, you can please some of the people
some of the time, you can't please them all, all of the time.

Those who love Petite, those who love stepping outside the bounds, and
those who are totally curious... this glass is for them!

Interesting... Shape of the glass is very important. It was what the
entire tasting with the glasses was about. The first three glasses that
we had were all too tall, too heavy, the rim was too wide... and yet,
as we tasted each wine (one at a time, but in each of the three glasses
in front of us), each glass delivered a completely different nose, and
delivered completely differently on the palate. It was really
interesting. The next set (only two prototypes) was shorter, lighter,
tighter rim.

What's fascinating is: to taste in breathable and non-breathable side
by side is what convinced the winemakers that they liked the breathable
better. They weren't all tied up in skepticism or "how"... They all
just wanted to take their glasses back to their labs so they could
taste some more, on their own, in their own time.

Winemakers don't get many samples of this sort. They're the forgotten
one in this process. I was told that I could be the one to choose the
glass. This didn't appeal to me. Four units in vit, enology, wine
components, etc... 60 total units in this business doesn't make me
winemakers. UCD and Fresno State does that... I knew enough to bring in
the experts, and I was the fly on the wall that got to watch it all,
and be their story teller... which I've already started professionally
with my core writer group... and beyond. I uncover more and more people
all the time. Fortunately, writers have moved way past "skeptic"... ;^)
They get samples all the time... the best way to knock out the
wonderment!

nope... because it can be ripped off...

jo wrote:
> Guess you don't know that Riedle's Hermitage glass ($75 buck a pop)
> also had a glass shaping panel, with Al Perry of Robert Biale and Jeff
> Cohn of Rosenblum sitting on those panels, among others.

Many people in this group are well aware of the Riedel design process,
including several who have attended one of the Riedel demonstration
seminars and others who've met Georg Riedel himself. The issue of glass
shape affecting the character of the wine is not what is at issue here.

>
> The greatest gift the glass industry can give consumers is a group of
> experts putting their collective palates together to help a glass
> designer do it right... Also, do you not know that all glass companies
> have glasses styled for particular varietals? Bordeaux glasses,
> Burgundy glasses, Sauvignon Blanc glasses, etc.?

Of course we do.
>
> I have a press release that I just sent to a media person who's reading
> this stream. His curiosity is totally piqued. I find the wirters that I
> have relationships with are totally awed by the info that I have...
> that's good enough for me. May your glass always be half full, as
> Robert Parker says on his recorded phone message. I like his style!
>
The issue is how one would make "breathable" glasses. As others have
mentioned, the process of a wine "breathing" involves oxidation of
various flavor components of the wine, resulting from exposure of the
wine to molecular oxygen in the wine itself. The reason that you're
hearing so much skepticism is that the solubility of oxygen in wine is
the limiting factor (oxygen being quite reactive), and no amount of
tinkering with the glass is going to change the solubility constant of
oxygen in wine.

There is one possible role for the glass in promoting oxidation: there
could be trace inorganic salts in the glass that catalyze the
decomposition of hydrogen peroxide (frequently produced by the reaction
of oxygen with a reducing agent) to hydroxy radical, another very potent
oxidant. We know that boron and lead can be easily introduced into
glass, so it would come as no surprise to me if molybdenum, rhenium or
chromium could be incorporated too (and all of those metals have been
observed to catalyze peroxide decomposition under certain
circumstances). However, I would want to see some description of the
methodology and some empirical data before buying that idea.

Your statement that Alan won't patent it because he doesn't want to
reveal the idea runs contrary to the whole basis of patent law: you
apply for a patent to protect your idea for 17 years; lack of a patent
means that anyone else can poach your idea and claim it as their own.
In my experience, people who claim technological innovations but decline
to patent them are usually frauds and hucksters, though I am making no
assertions about the people who've developed this glass.

Lastly, I am not persuaded by your experiences, or those of the rest of
the tasting panel. Unless the tasting was conducted in at least a
single blind, and preferably a double blind, environment, it's
impossible to rule out the power of suggestion and the effect of
psychology on the outcome. This is not in any sense an indictment of
the tasters, merely a criticism of the experiment itself. The placebo
effect is real, and it's surprisingly powerful.

Mark Lipton
Professor of Chemistry
Purdue University

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:22:11 GMT, Leo Bueno > said:

] On 6 Feb 2005 09:04:51 -0800, "jo" >
] wrote:
]
]
] >Breathable glass is a proprietary process, and inventor Alan Zalayet is
] >not going to patent the process, just produce the stemware.
]
] Because one cannot patent a marketing gimmick perhaps?
]
]

Leo, I was going to reply to Mark L, but yours is more concise.

I've come to the probable conclusion that he won't patent it because there
is nothing to patent. Like other tasting glasses its all about shape. The
"breathable" is just a marketing gimmick.

You cannot patent a shape that subjectively makes some type of wine taste
"better" to a panel!

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

jo wrote:
> The inventor hasn't shared his process. If he patents his process, his
> trade secrets will become everyone's baby.

Patenting provides a high level of protection for 14 years.
The inventor seems to be relying on "trade secret" to protect
his invention. This is very little protection - if someone
reverse engineers his invention, there's nothing stopping
clones being sold.

Patents provide a very high level of protection in exchange
for disclosing the mechanics of an invention. This in turn
drives innovation by fostering derivative works. It also allows
the open objective review of the patented invention.

> Not going to happen any time soon.

Apparently not.

[...]


> There couldn't be a chemical involved, or the super-sensitive palates
> of these guys would have immediately have picked this up... Plus, let's
> see... do I trust someone like Ronn Wiegand with his MS & MW over
> anyone else? Yup... The old adage, you can please some of the people
> some of the time, you can't please them all, all of the time.

You're dropping too many names, too often. That makes me suspicious.

> Those who love Petite, those who love stepping outside the bounds, and
> those who are totally curious... this glass is for them!

Magnets. This is all making me think of magnets.

Dana

jo wrote:
> nope... because it can be ripped off...

You guys need to hire a *real* Intellectual
Property lawyer, because you clearly don't understand
IP law at all. If your glasses are indeed special
and someone reverse-engineers your glasses, you will
have very little protection against being...

....ripped off.

Dana

Since you weren't there, tasting in exactly identical glasses
side-by-side with the same wine, and tasting the actual difference, you
just can't understand what a great tasting we had.

Professional winmakers and proprietos who voted "wow":

Jeff Cohn of Rosenblum
Al Perry of Robert Biale
Bill Regan of Foppiano
Paul Dolan of Parducci (formerly with Fetzer)
Bob Swain of Pasrducci
Ed West of Lolonis
Adam Richardson of Concannon
John Monnich of Silkwood
Larry Mettler of Metler Vineyards
Tom Mulligan of Field Stone

This is it, guys... Continue to throw out your opinions... that's what
they are and you're entitled. I'm going back to work with my guys... my
weekend is over and the piles of work are staring me in the face. I'll
tell Alan y'all said "Hey!"

Take care and may your glasses all be half full! -- jo

Leo Bueno wrote:
> Here is the claim:
>
> "Eisch has created breathable crystal that aerates your wine in just
> minutes. This novel development is hard to believe, but really works.
> The crystal has undergone a proprietary treatment that allows wine to
> aerate in just two to four minutes. More importantly, the glasses
will
> never lose their ability to improve your best wines and can be washed
> just like other glasses -- no special treatment required. Hand-blown
> of lead-free crystal, these glasses are extremely durable. Taste for
> yourself, the proof is in the glass."


I imagine this would be possible, however pointless it is. We all have
learned how utterly false it is that wine should receive oxygen to
taste better. Hogwash, pure and simple.

This will sound like heresy, but I have exactly ONE set of wine glasses
(all the same size) that I use for almost every wine. The exception is
a small drinking glass that I use for Port or other fortified wines.
As for the breathable stemware, as Spock would say, "That is not
logical."

Dan-O

wrote:
> This will sound like heresy, but I have exactly ONE set of wine
glasses
> (all the same size) that I use for almost every wine. The exception
is
> a small drinking glass that I use for Port or other fortified wines.
> As for the breathable stemware, as Spock would say, "That is not
> logical."
>
> Dan-O

It IS heresy. But don't let that stop you. It never stops me. In
reality, many red wines do benefit from a larger, shallower glass than
the ones used for white wines. The glass is filled only part-way,
allowing for the bouquet to develop a little more. The additional
surface area of the wine sitting in a wide, shallow, glass also allows
more of the aroma to develop. Of course, in my glasses, the wine
doesn't reside long enough to develop much of anything....

Glug.....glug....glug....

> skrev i melding
ups.com...
>
>
> .... In
> reality, many red wines do benefit from a larger, shallower glass than
> the ones used for white wines. The glass is filled only part-way,
> allowing for the bouquet to develop a little more. The additional
> surface area of the wine sitting in a wide, shallow, glass also allows
> more of the aroma to develop.
Ooh, nooo! What have you done! Allowed the wine to breathe! Shame on you!
Anders

Anders Tørneskog wrote:
> > skrev i melding
> ups.com...
>
>>
>>.... In
>>reality, many red wines do benefit from a larger, shallower glass than
>>the ones used for white wines. The glass is filled only part-way,
>>allowing for the bouquet to develop a little more. The additional
>>surface area of the wine sitting in a wide, shallow, glass also allows
>>more of the aroma to develop.
>
> Ooh, nooo! What have you done! Allowed the wine to breathe! Shame on you!

I was just thinking the same thing myself...

> Anders
>
>

Dana H. Myers wrote:
> Anders T=F8rneskog wrote:
> > > skrev i melding
> > ups.com...
> >
> >>
> >>.... In
> >>reality, many red wines do benefit from a larger, shallower glass
than
> >>the ones used for white wines. The glass is filled only part-way,
> >>allowing for the bouquet to develop a little more. The additional
> >>surface area of the wine sitting in a wide, shallow, glass also
allows
> >>more of the aroma to develop.
> >
> > Ooh, nooo! What have you done! Allowed the wine to breathe! Shame
on you!
>
> I was just thinking the same thing myself...
>
> > Anders
> >
> >



You obviously didn't read the whole post. I said it doesn't stay there
long.....

Bill Loftin wrote:

> Do you think maybe our criticism of the breathable glass is caused by
> our very narrow focus on porous glass rather than a shape that will
> perhaps cause the the wine to move around in the glass. I think we
> should be open minded until we find out what the technology is. So
> far the criticism in the group has not been any better founded than the
> porous glass.

Porous glass was just one suggestion. I'm not even
jumping to that conclusion. It's not even clear
to me that the glass inherently aerates the wine
as claimed at the Eisch page.

In fact, I rather doubt that the glass alone
aerates the wine. Let's apply logic here.
The description of the glass says that it
"aerates the wine in 2 to 4 minutes". If
that's true, then it seems to accelerate
breathing by a factor of 5 to 10 times.

But, the glass can't know when to stop
aerating the wine. If the glass really
causes the wine to breathe at 10x the normal
rate, then 10 minutes in the glass will be
like an hour or two. Does this really happen?

Cheers,
Dana

wrote:

> You obviously didn't read the whole post. I said it doesn't stay there
> long.....

I read the whole post. I know it doesn't stay there long.

I'm trying a new diet, called a Wine Fast.

Basically, for three days, I drink wine... fast.

:-)

Dana

Dana H. Myers wrote:

> Porous glass was just one suggestion. I'm not even
> jumping to that conclusion. It's not even clear
> to me that the glass inherently aerates the wine
> as claimed at the Eisch page.
>
> In fact, I rather doubt that the glass alone
> aerates the wine. Let's apply logic here.
> The description of the glass says that it
> "aerates the wine in 2 to 4 minutes". If
> that's true, then it seems to accelerate
> breathing by a factor of 5 to 10 times.
>
> But, the glass can't know when to stop
> aerating the wine. If the glass really
> causes the wine to breathe at 10x the normal
> rate, then 10 minutes in the glass will be
> like an hour or two. Does this really happen?

Maybe they have a little built in solar powdered electric fan blowing
down on the wine. Maybe they are using kryptonite to circulate it. My
best guess is magnets. But why do we all have to disbelieve it just
because we don't understand it. That is rather closed minded.

Bill Loftin wrote:
> Dana H. Myers wrote:
>
> > Porous glass was just one suggestion. I'm not even
> > jumping to that conclusion. It's not even clear
> > to me that the glass inherently aerates the wine
> > as claimed at the Eisch page.
> >
> > In fact, I rather doubt that the glass alone
> > aerates the wine. Let's apply logic here.
> > The description of the glass says that it
> > "aerates the wine in 2 to 4 minutes". If
> > that's true, then it seems to accelerate
> > breathing by a factor of 5 to 10 times.
> >
> > But, the glass can't know when to stop
> > aerating the wine. If the glass really
> > causes the wine to breathe at 10x the normal
> > rate, then 10 minutes in the glass will be
> > like an hour or two. Does this really happen?
>
> Maybe they have a little built in solar powdered electric fan blowing
> down on the wine. Maybe they are using kryptonite to circulate it. My
> best guess is magnets. But why do we all have to disbelieve it just
> because we don't understand it. That is rather closed minded.



There's
A
Sucker
Born
Every
Minute

Bill Loftin wrote:
> Dana H. Myers wrote:
>
>> Porous glass was just one suggestion. I'm not even
>> jumping to that conclusion. It's not even clear
>> to me that the glass inherently aerates the wine
>> as claimed at the Eisch page.
>>
>> In fact, I rather doubt that the glass alone
>> aerates the wine. Let's apply logic here.
>> The description of the glass says that it
>> "aerates the wine in 2 to 4 minutes". If
>> that's true, then it seems to accelerate
>> breathing by a factor of 5 to 10 times.
>>
>> But, the glass can't know when to stop
>> aerating the wine. If the glass really
>> causes the wine to breathe at 10x the normal
>> rate, then 10 minutes in the glass will be
>> like an hour or two. Does this really happen?
>
>
> Maybe they have a little built in solar powdered electric fan blowing
> down on the wine. Maybe they are using kryptonite to circulate it. My
> best guess is magnets. But why do we all have to disbelieve it just
> because we don't understand it. That is rather closed minded.

What makes you think I am close-minded?

Dana

"Dana H. Myers" > wrote:

>> Maybe they have a little built in solar powdered electric fan
>> blowing down on the wine. Maybe they are using kryptonite to
>> circulate it. My best guess is magnets. But why do we all have
>> to disbelieve it just because we don't understand it. That is
>> rather closed minded.

> What makes you think I am close-minded?

Could it be possible that you irony detector might need new
batteries? Or mine?

M.

>Wouldn't it leak?
>
>David E

Hey Dave, ever been to a winery?

Next time you have the chance, check out this radically new technology
that allows the wine to breathe (i.e. incorporate air) through a
membrane, but doesn't leak. It's amazing! It's magical! It's oak
barrels!

"Wouldn't it leak?" That's a good one! = )

Hipergas wrote:

> Next time you have the chance, check out this radically new technology
> that allows the wine to breathe (i.e. incorporate air) through a
> membrane, but doesn't leak. It's amazing! It's magical! It's oak
> barrels!

.... and they often leak a little, at least at first.
Smart winemakers will fill them with water for a day
or two to pre-swell them before using them to contain
wine.

Dana

Well Dana, if we are about to split hairs, wine barrels don't
necessarily leak when first used.

Cooperages recommend to sweel the barrels with water before using them
as a preventive measure; but if you store your barrels in a humid
environment (like our wine caves), and buy the barrels soon before
filling them, they don't necessarily leak at all.

When you leave a barrel empty for a prolonged period, you may need to
swell them again to prevent leaking when filled.

I can say this from my experience having worked in our cellar with
close to 1000 barrels.

Gaston

Hipergas wrote:
> Well Dana, if we are about to split hairs, wine barrels don't
> necessarily leak when first used.
>
> Cooperages recommend to sweel the barrels with water before using them
> as a preventive measure; but if you store your barrels in a humid
> environment (like our wine caves), and buy the barrels soon before
> filling them, they don't necessarily leak at all.
>
> When you leave a barrel empty for a prolonged period, you may need to
> swell them again to prevent leaking when filled.
>
> I can say this from my experience having worked in our cellar with
> close to 1000 barrels.

Did I say something incorrect?

Dana