Wednesday with rack of lamb with persillade, a 375 of the 1997 Ch. de Sales
(Pomerol). What a disappointment (even w/o high expectations!). Thin, sharp,
raspy berry fruit and a short finish. This is a Seagram Chateaux & Estates
import, a recent purchase (Stew Leonards in Yonkers) , my guess is the reports
of C&E dumping heat-damaged inventory in NE are accurate. C

Thursday we had pizza, and the 2002 Rocca del Macie "Campomaccione" Morellino
di Scansano. Looks like reports of 2002 vintage sucking in Piemonte have some
validity, too. Too much oak for the meager cherry fruit, thin on the finish and
lacking substance. A waste of $9. C/C+

What a week. But it can be salvaged- the 2002 Willi Schaefer Graacher
Himmelreich Riesling (MSR) does much better. Friday we have with an Indian
spiced fish recipe from Mark Bittman. This Qba is a light, easy, but sassy
wine with floral nose, citrus fruit with a touch of red fruits, good acidic
structure. Yippee, back on track. B/B+

Saturday night, rib steaks over a watercress/parsley/caper salad, with baked
potatoes. Recipe was supposedly intended for Petite Sirah, but I serve the 1999
Ch. Leoville Poyferre (St-Julien). As in the past, I really like this wine.
Good blackcurrant fruit, ripe but with enough acidity to not be flabby. Cedary
oak, violets, licorice all on the nose. Not a blockbuster, but a damn good
argument for what can be done in a "mediocre" vintage. B+/A-

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a
good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where
it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy,
and certainly not of consistency.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

"Dale Williams" > skrev i melding
...
>
> What a week. But it can be salvaged- the 2002 Willi Schaefer Graacher
> Himmelreich Riesling (MSR) does much better. Friday we have with an Indian
> spiced fish recipe from Mark Bittman. This Qba is a light, easy, but
> sassy
> wine with floral nose, citrus fruit with a touch of red fruits, good
> acidic
> structure. Yippee, back on track. B/B+
>
Hi Dale
I looked up the TN of wein-plus, translating like this
Simple, slightly perfumey nose with notes of peaches. Pale fruit, lean and
simple, with citrus acid, at palate some tannins, short.
9% abv, 5.30Euros. 74 points - "acceptable".
Seems that you liked this one better than they did!

:-) Anders

"Dale Williams" > skrev i melding
...
>
> What a week. But it can be salvaged- the 2002 Willi Schaefer Graacher
> Himmelreich Riesling (MSR) does much better. Friday we have with an Indian
> spiced fish recipe from Mark Bittman. This Qba is a light, easy, but
> sassy
> wine with floral nose, citrus fruit with a touch of red fruits, good
> acidic
> structure. Yippee, back on track. B/B+
>
Hi Dale
I looked up the TN of wein-plus, translating like this
Simple, slightly perfumey nose with notes of peaches. Pale fruit, lean and
simple, with citrus acid, at palate some tannins, short.
9% abv, 5.30Euros. 74 points - "acceptable".
Seems that you liked this one better than they did!

:-) Anders

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

> I looked up the TN of wein-plus, translating like this
> Simple, slightly perfumey nose with notes of peaches. Pale
> fruit, lean and simple, with citrus acid, at palate some
> tannins, short. 9% abv, 5.30Euros. 74 points - "acceptable".
> Seems that you liked this one better than they did!

Wein-plus scores are much lower than all others. Don't stick to the
numbers.

M.

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> "Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:
>
>> I looked up the TN of wein-plus, translating like this
>> Simple, slightly perfumey nose with notes of peaches. Pale
>> fruit, lean and simple, with citrus acid, at palate some
>> tannins, short. 9% abv, 5.30Euros. 74 points - "acceptable".
>> Seems that you liked this one better than they did!
>
> Wein-plus scores are much lower than all others. Don't stick to the
> numbers.
>
Yes, I think it is true for Germany. They seem to give rather higher scores
in Austria, btw, but then the judge(s) is/are different.
Marcus Hofschuster, the judge in Germany, seems to be quite harsh at times -
when the wine is not quite to his liking, I think.
As to that wine in question the good Willy Schäfer possibly had a less
attractive lineup in 2002, but I've not tried these myself.
Anders

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> "Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:
>
>> I looked up the TN of wein-plus, translating like this
>> Simple, slightly perfumey nose with notes of peaches. Pale
>> fruit, lean and simple, with citrus acid, at palate some
>> tannins, short. 9% abv, 5.30Euros. 74 points - "acceptable".
>> Seems that you liked this one better than they did!
>
> Wein-plus scores are much lower than all others. Don't stick to the
> numbers.
>
Yes, I think it is true for Germany. They seem to give rather higher scores
in Austria, btw, but then the judge(s) is/are different.
Marcus Hofschuster, the judge in Germany, seems to be quite harsh at times -
when the wine is not quite to his liking, I think.
As to that wine in question the good Willy Schäfer possibly had a less
attractive lineup in 2002, but I've not tried these myself.
Anders

>I looked up the TN of wein-plus, translating like this
>Simple, slightly perfumey nose with notes of peaches. Pale fruit, lean and
>simple, with citrus acid, at palate some tannins, short.
>9% abv, 5.30Euros. 74 points - "acceptable".
>Seems that you liked this one better than they did!

Anders, in addition to Michael's view of scoring, I have 2 thoughts:
1) we all know that tastes and preferences vary, only the most rabid of
Parker's sheep (not usually Parker himself) claim there's a definite
quantifiable hierarchy. Obviously my tastes differ from wein-plus. Beyond that
obvious difference there's the fact that the German wine press in general seems
(based on my light reading in translation) to have a definite preference for
German non-dessert wines to be fermented to dryness. I tend to like some RS in
my Germans (because almost every time I have a trocken MSR Riesling I think I'd
prefer an Alsace or Wachau Rieslings at same price point - I do like some dry
Franken Rieslings, but scarce here).
2) As noted, I make no claims of objectivity or consistency. In this case I was
looking for a light easy wine, and got one. A big Spätlese wouldn't have fit
in. If I was tasting through a big lineup of German wines, might not have done
as well. I'd be curious as to how wein-plus scored other similarly-priced Qbas.


I really wouldn't argue with their review (except for the tannic part- ??). I
didn't think the finish was short, but then I was expecting a long finish from
a Qba. If you have a chance to taste this, I'd be interested in your opinion.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote:

> I tend to like some RS in my Germans (because almost every time
> I have a trocken MSR Riesling I think I'd prefer an Alsace or
> Wachau Rieslings at same price point - I do like some dry
> Franken Rieslings, but scarce here).

When chosing dry German Rieslings, MSR wouldn't be my first
choice, not even my second. Pfalz and parts of Rheinhessen
(Rheinfront - Gunderloch!) are number one, and today also Rheingau
is coming up. Otoh, there is nothing better than a sweet Auslese
from MSR.

M.

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote:
>
>
> When chosing dry German Rieslings, MSR wouldn't be my first
> choice, not even my second. Pfalz and parts of Rheinhessen
> (Rheinfront - Gunderloch!) are number one, and today also Rheingau
> is coming up. Otoh, there is nothing better than a sweet Auslese
> from MSR.
>
It is all about abv. For 2003 I got some dry MSR QbA's at 13%, not half
bad.
Dry MSR wines at 11 are better forgotten, I think.
The big sweet ones on the other hand are something else, I still remember an
auction Auslese that I tasted at Willy Schaefer's 10 years ago - wow!
Anders

My benchmark for a dry Riesling is Clos Ste. Hune. Unfortunately there
is not nearly enough of it to meet the demand, and it has become rather
expensive, especially in the best years. It does often need consderable
age and can be aggressive when young.

I have tasted completely dry Rieslings from some of the warmer areas of
Germany that are quite decent, but finding such wines at a reasonable
price in the US can be difficult. Although it may be somewhat like
comparing apples and oranges, I have not tasted a dry German Riesling
that I consider as good as a Clos Ste. Hune from a good year with enough
age. On the other hand most of the most outstanding Rieslings I have
tasted (auslese and above) came from Germany. There are exceptions, and
one can find several examples of top sweet Rieslings from Austria and
even Alsace. For example, Trimbach's Riesling Cuvee Frederic Emile,
Selection de Grains Nobles 1989 is a very fine late harvest Riesling
from Alsace. Also a few late harvest Rieslings from the US made in the
1970s were, and often still are, top quality includig Freemark Abbey
Edelwein Gold 1976, Joseph Phelps Selected Late Harvest 1978(30% RS),
and Ch. St. Jean Alexander Valley Individual Dried Bunch Selected Late
Harvest Belle Terre Vineyards 1978(28% RS).

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

> It is all about abv.

Of course.

> For 2003 I got some dry MSR QbA's at 13%, not half bad.

Good vintage to start with.

> Dry MSR wines at 11 are better forgotten, I think.

So do I.

M.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> My benchmark for a dry Riesling is Clos Ste. Hune. Unfortunately
> there is not nearly enough of it to meet the demand, and it has
> become rather expensive, especially in the best years. It does
> often need consderable age and can be aggressive when young.
>
> I have tasted completely dry Rieslings from some of the warmer
> areas of Germany that are quite decent, but finding such wines
> at a reasonable price in the US can be difficult.

How much is your benchmark? Ever tried top Austrian dry rieslings?

M.

>Ever tried top Austrian dry rieslings?

I'm not cwdjrx, but my reply to this subthread was going to similar to his.
Though I was going to say was that I've never had a dry German Riesling I
thought the match of a Clos Ste. Hune or a Pichler "M". For that matter, don't
think I've had one that matched up to a Trimbach CFE or Nigl "Privat", to get
more in my budget. Of course, this might be more a statement re German wine
distribution in US that actual quality levels.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

>Ever tried top Austrian dry rieslings?

I'm not cwdjrx, but my reply to this subthread was going to similar to his.
Though I was going to say was that I've never had a dry German Riesling I
thought the match of a Clos Ste. Hune or a Pichler "M". For that matter, don't
think I've had one that matched up to a Trimbach CFE or Nigl "Privat", to get
more in my budget. Of course, this might be more a statement re German wine
distribution in US that actual quality levels.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Michael Pronay asks: "How much is your benchmark? Ever tried top
Austrian dry rieslings?"

______________________________________

The problem with Clos Ste. Hune in the US is finding it for the better
years. My 1976 was bought many years ago at auction. It may have been
about twice as expensive as other high quality Rieslings at that time.
However the price seemed a bargin when compared to Le Montrachet, even
long ago.

I have never had what I would consider a top Austrian dry Riesling,
although I have read many good reports about some of them. In the old
days few, except some of the sweeter Austrian wines, often rather
commercial, were found in the US. Even today I would have to make a long
trip to buy a top dry Austrian Riesling. I think you in Austria may be
drinking many of the best examples of dry Riesling yourself rather than
exporting them much!



My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> The problem with Clos Ste. Hune in the US is finding it for the
> better years. My 1976 was bought many years ago at auction. It
> may have been about twice as expensive as other high quality
> Rieslings at that time. However the price seemed a bargin when
> compared to Le Montrachet, even long ago.

My question was serious. What would be the price of Clos Ste. Hune
from the latest release?

> I have never had what I would consider a top Austrian dry
> Riesling, although I have read many good reports about some of
> them. In the old days few, except some of the sweeter Austrian
> wines, often rather commercial, were found in the US. Even today
> I would have to make a long trip to buy a top dry Austrian
> Riesling. I think you in Austria may be drinking many of the
> best examples of dry Riesling yourself rather than exporting
> them much!

Well-known problem ... ;-(

M.

Michael Pronay asks: "My question was serious. What would be the price
of Clos Ste. Hune from the latest release?"

The latest release I could find was the 1999 which D. Sokolin in New
York is selling for US$ 141.

I found 4 sources for the 1997. Wally's Wine & Spirits in Los Angeles
sells it for $116.99 and the Wine Warehouse also in Los Angeles sells it
for $117.99. D. Sokolin in New York charges 141.10. Park Avenue Liquor
in New York charges $145.

You might have been able to have obtained these at a somewhat lower cost
if you had been a good customer of one of the few wine shops who get
this wine when it is first released. Otherwise, you are likely to find
the better Clos Ste. Hune vintages only at a very few high-end wine
shops and at auction. At one time I could have asked a regional importer
what he had to pay for Clos Ste.Hune, but he no longer is in business
and did not have Clos Ste. Hune very often after the 1970s.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> Michael Pronay asks: "My question was serious. What would be the
> price of Clos Ste. Hune from the latest release?"
>
> The latest release I could find was the 1999 which D. Sokolin in
> New York is selling for US$ 141.
>
> I found 4 sources for the 1997. Wally's Wine & Spirits in Los
> Angeles sells it for $116.99 and the Wine Warehouse also in Los
> Angeles sells it for $117.99. D. Sokolin in New York charges
> 141.10. Park Avenue Liquor in New York charges $145.

Thank you very much. That's about twice the price of FX Pichler's
Riesling "M" and comparable to his "Unendlich" (USD 245 for a
magnum in an Italian shop, the only place wine-searcher finds it).

M.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> Michael Pronay asks: "My question was serious. What would be the
> price of Clos Ste. Hune from the latest release?"
>
> The latest release I could find was the 1999 which D. Sokolin in
> New York is selling for US$ 141.
>
> I found 4 sources for the 1997. Wally's Wine & Spirits in Los
> Angeles sells it for $116.99 and the Wine Warehouse also in Los
> Angeles sells it for $117.99. D. Sokolin in New York charges
> 141.10. Park Avenue Liquor in New York charges $145.

Thank you very much. That's about twice the price of FX Pichler's
Riesling "M" and comparable to his "Unendlich" (USD 245 for a
magnum in an Italian shop, the only place wine-searcher finds it).

M.

>Thank you very much. That's about twice the price of FX Pichler's
>Riesling "M" and comparable to his "Unendlich" (USD 245 for a
>magnum in an Italian shop, the only place wine-searcher finds it).

I think of Clos Ste Hune as selling for about $100. Like many small production
prestrige wines, it sells out quickly (without extensive searching, my
impression is recent vintages of Pichler "M" are about $75 in US).
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

You will find many more prices for Clos Ste. Hune Riesling in the US
and UK at:

http://www.wine-searcher.com/regions/clos+sainte+hune/1

This is the professional version of wine-searcher that Google found. I
was under the impression that you had to pay for the professional
version, but Google must have found a back door to enter.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

You will find many more prices for Clos Ste. Hune Riesling in the US
and UK at:

http://www.wine-searcher.com/regions/clos+sainte+hune/1

This is the professional version of wine-searcher that Google found. I
was under the impression that you had to pay for the professional
version, but Google must have found a back door to enter.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> This is the professional version of wine-searcher that Google
> found. I was under the impression that you had to pay for the
> professional version, but Google must have found a back door to
> enter.

How did you search?

M.

(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

> This is the professional version of wine-searcher that Google
> found. I was under the impression that you had to pay for the
> professional version, but Google must have found a back door to
> enter.

How did you search?

M.

Michael Pronay asks: "How did you search?"

I selected the advanced search at Google. Then I entered Clos Sainte
Hune in the exact phrase box and nothig else. When you search, a link
called "Wines from Clos Sainte Hune" is found a few links down on the
first page. This is the link for which I obtained the URL and posted.

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