Monday no wine, Tuesday Betsy made slightly spicy Greek meatballs with feta and tomato sauce, I had no Greek wines so opened the 2013 Burlotto Barbera d'Alba. More tannic structure than I expect in Barbera, the acids I do expect, and quite full black cherry fruit. This is quite tasty but could use a little time in bottle. Fine value B+/B

Matt comes to town! One of our former organizers of our Bordeaux group was in town from CA, and Paul arranged a nice dinner at the Gander

Amuses of blini with sea trout roe and a artic char crudo with capers

2001 Donnhoff Norheimer Dellchen Riesling Spatlese Trocken
Not at all austere, brisk, apple, ginger and a little petrol. Really quite good, but hard to drink after I taste the offdry 04. B+

2004 Donnhoff Niederhäuser Hermannshöhle Riesling Spatlese
Big but balanced ample acids, citrus and slate, very long. A-/B+

1st Flight Barbarescos
Beef Tartare, Lardo, Hazelnuts, Pecorino

2001 Bruno Giacosa Asili Barbaresco
(double-decanted , 4 hours in decanter earlier in day)I thought this tight and unexpressive, but seemed to be a good wine underneath. That was confirmed when I revisited at end of night, lots of air time had helped a lot. Red fruits, smoke, a little citrus peel. B for drinking now, but I suspect in 15 years I'd be in A territory.

2001 Bruno Giacosa Riserva Rabaja, Barbaresco
(double-decanted , 4 hours in decanter earlier in day) More expressive, very rich and complete, very young but still delicious. B+/A-

2000 Bruno Giacosa Asili Riserva Barbaresco
I found this a bit odd, with a slightly sour note. Big ripe fruit, lots of tannin, maybe just needs time to sort itself out. B-

2nd Flight (California Cabernet)
Sunchoke Soup, Braised Brisket, Bordelaise Vinaigrette

1978 Heitz Martha's Vineyard
(double-decanted that AM) Wow, I was very happy with this showing. There was some funk when I decanted, but by dinner there was just pure sweet old Cali Cab. Black cherry fruit, smoke, spice, herb (but only a hint of eucalyptus). Complete and complex. Shows just as well 2 hours later. A-/A

1976 Heitz Martha's Vineyard
(double-decanted that AM) also really good, though maybe a half-step behind another bottle Paul opened last Dec. Rich red fruit, a little mocha, nice length. The herby notes here do have some eucalyptus. B+/A-

1977 Ch. Montelena
Black fruits, cigarbox, leather. Really good, nice contrast to the Heitzs, I think I would have thought Bordeaux blind. A-

3rd Flight (Super Tuscans)
Casareccia, Oxtail ragu, Polenta, Cloumage, Beef Jerky
1999 Antinori Solaia
I was surprised how much I liked this- I generally avoid Cab heavy Tuscans. Blackcurrants, coffee, some rose- floral notes, wood present but not heavy.. B+.

1997 Antinori Solaia
Corked. They tried the Saran wrap trick which left it non-corked but non-drinkable.

1997 Antinori Tignanello
Very ripe, fairly developed. B-

1995 Antinori Tignanello
A bit fresher, good acids and tannins. B

4th Flight Chateau Latour
Grilled Hanger Steak, Smoked Mushroom Gratin, Soubise, broccoli

2004 Chateau Latour
(double-decanted , 1 hour in decanter earlier in day) Very young, a bit glossy, but nice core underneath. I thought it got better with air. A couple of people strongly disliked. B+

2001 Chateau Latour
Young, a hard core underneath, not as charming as most '01s but maybe just shut down. B

1988 Chateau Latour
Now this is what Latour should be like. Masculine but refined, tannins still there but smooth. B+/A-

1975 Chateau Latour
Some funky brett and lots of caramelly oxidative notes. C

one more to finish
1988 Ch. Climens
I love the way acids balance out '88s, and this is one of my alltime favorite Sauternes/Barsacs. Big but balanced, lovely peach, apricot and mango fruit very long finish, A-
Really fun night, I liked the food, company was great, especially great to see Matt.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice.Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

> 1997 Antinori Solaia
> Corked. They tried the Saran wrap trick which left it non-corked but non-drinkable.
>

What is the saran wrap trick?

I dont see how anything (other than maybe some chemistry or syfy radiation) can remove the corked taste? Or are you using the word for something different then we do? are you talking about cork pieces in the wine to remove? Im talking about tan infection in the cork that gives it a nasty scent and flavour that spreads in the wine. Invisible, cant be removed.

On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 8:04:49 AM UTC-5, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> > 1997 Antinori Solaia
> > Corked. They tried the Saran wrap trick which left it non-corked but non-drinkable.
> >
>
> What is the saran wrap trick?
>
> I dont see how anything (other than maybe some chemistry or syfy radiation) can remove the corked taste? Or are you using the word for something different then we do? are you talking about cork pieces in the wine to remove? Im talking about tan infection in the cork that gives it a nasty scent and flavour that spreads in the wine. Invisible, cant be removed.

TCA (the compound that causes the cork taint)allegedly can be removed or mitigated by pouring the wine over a ball of saran wrap. I haven't tried it.

On 11/23/15 11:29 AM, Bi!! wrote:
> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 8:04:49 AM UTC-5, Michael Nielsen
> wrote:
>>> 1997 Antinori Solaia Corked. They tried the Saran wrap trick
>>> which left it non-corked but non-drinkable.
>>>
>>
>> What is the saran wrap trick?
>>
>> I dont see how anything (other than maybe some chemistry or syfy
>> radiation) can remove the corked taste? Or are you using the word
>> for something different then we do? are you talking about cork
>> pieces in the wine to remove? Im talking about tan infection in the
>> cork that gives it a nasty scent and flavour that spreads in the
>> wine. Invisible, cant be removed.
>
> TCA (the compound that causes the cork taint)allegedly can be removed
> or mitigated by pouring the wine over a ball of saran wrap. I
> haven't tried it.
>

What Bill said. Basically, it's a biphasic (solid-liquid) extraction of
the hydrophobic TCA molecule (2,4,6-trichloroanisole) from the aqueous
environment of water. The problems with this method are twofold: first,
it's not a perfect partitioning, so you're knocking the TCA levels down
to beneath your detection threshold, but there's still enough in there
to potentially "fruit scalp" your wine; secondly, it's not clear that
other flavor components aren't also getting extracted out along with the
TCA.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On 23/11/2015 12:55 PM, Mark Lipton wrote:
> On 11/23/15 11:29 AM, Bi!! wrote:
>> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 8:04:49 AM UTC-5, Michael Nielsen
>> wrote:
>>>> 1997 Antinori Solaia Corked. They tried the Saran wrap trick
>>>> which left it non-corked but non-drinkable.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What is the saran wrap trick?
>>>
>>> I dont see how anything (other than maybe some chemistry or syfy
>>> radiation) can remove the corked taste? Or are you using the word
>>> for something different then we do? are you talking about cork
>>> pieces in the wine to remove? Im talking about tan infection in the
>>> cork that gives it a nasty scent and flavour that spreads in the
>>> wine. Invisible, cant be removed.
>>
>> TCA (the compound that causes the cork taint)allegedly can be removed
>> or mitigated by pouring the wine over a ball of saran wrap. I
>> haven't tried it.
>>
>
> What Bill said. Basically, it's a biphasic (solid-liquid) extraction of
> the hydrophobic TCA molecule (2,4,6-trichloroanisole) from the aqueous
> environment of water. The problems with this method are twofold: first,
> it's not a perfect partitioning, so you're knocking the TCA levels down
> to beneath your detection threshold, but there's still enough in there
> to potentially "fruit scalp" your wine; secondly, it's not clear that
> other flavor components aren't also getting extracted out along with the
> TCA.
>
> Mark Lipton
>
But if it works and at least renders the wine drinkable, it must be
better than pouring it down the sink.
Graham

--
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play.
It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness,
disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in
witnessing violence." George Orwell

On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 3:25:15 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
> On 23/11/2015 12:55 PM, Mark Lipton wrote:
> > On 11/23/15 11:29 AM, Bi!! wrote:
> >> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 8:04:49 AM UTC-5, Michael Nielsen
> >> wrote:
> >>>> 1997 Antinori Solaia Corked. They tried the Saran wrap trick
> >>>> which left it non-corked but non-drinkable.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> What is the saran wrap trick?
> >>>
> >>> I dont see how anything (other than maybe some chemistry or syfy
> >>> radiation) can remove the corked taste? Or are you using the word
> >>> for something different then we do? are you talking about cork
> >>> pieces in the wine to remove? Im talking about tan infection in the
> >>> cork that gives it a nasty scent and flavour that spreads in the
> >>> wine. Invisible, cant be removed.
> >>
> >> TCA (the compound that causes the cork taint)allegedly can be removed
> >> or mitigated by pouring the wine over a ball of saran wrap. I
> >> haven't tried it.
> >>
> >
> > What Bill said. Basically, it's a biphasic (solid-liquid) extraction of
> > the hydrophobic TCA molecule (2,4,6-trichloroanisole) from the aqueous
> > environment of water. The problems with this method are twofold: first,
> > it's not a perfect partitioning, so you're knocking the TCA levels down
> > to beneath your detection threshold, but there's still enough in there
> > to potentially "fruit scalp" your wine; secondly, it's not clear that
> > other flavor components aren't also getting extracted out along with the
> > TCA.
> >
> > Mark Lipton
> >
> But if it works and at least renders the wine drinkable, it must be
> better than pouring it down the sink.
> Graham
>
> --
I've tried this in past. Got rid of TCA aromas, but never thought it was the "real" wine. But might be useful to salvage to use for cooking or maybe to leave out at a big party for the people who just want alcohol.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015 19:22:52 -0800, DaleW wrote:

> On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 3:25:15 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
>> On 23/11/2015 12:55 PM, Mark Lipton wrote:
>> > On 11/23/15 11:29 AM, Bi!! wrote:
>> >> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 8:04:49 AM UTC-5, Michael Nielsen
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>> 1997 Antinori Solaia Corked. They tried the Saran wrap trick which
>> >>>> left it non-corked but non-drinkable.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> What is the saran wrap trick?
>> >>>
>> >>> I dont see how anything (other than maybe some chemistry or syfy
>> >>> radiation) can remove the corked taste? Or are you using the word
>> >>> for something different then we do? are you talking about cork
>> >>> pieces in the wine to remove? Im talking about tan infection in the
>> >>> cork that gives it a nasty scent and flavour that spreads in the
>> >>> wine. Invisible, cant be removed.
>> >>
>> >> TCA (the compound that causes the cork taint)allegedly can be
>> >> removed or mitigated by pouring the wine over a ball of saran wrap.
>> >> I haven't tried it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > What Bill said. Basically, it's a biphasic (solid-liquid) extraction
>> > of the hydrophobic TCA molecule (2,4,6-trichloroanisole) from the
>> > aqueous environment of water. The problems with this method are
>> > twofold: first,
>> > it's not a perfect partitioning, so you're knocking the TCA levels
>> > down to beneath your detection threshold, but there's still enough in
>> > there to potentially "fruit scalp" your wine; secondly, it's not
>> > clear that other flavor components aren't also getting extracted out
>> > along with the TCA.
>> >
>> > Mark Lipton
>> >
>> But if it works and at least renders the wine drinkable, it must be
>> better than pouring it down the sink.
>> Graham
>>
>> --
> I've tried this in past. Got rid of TCA aromas, but never thought it was
> the "real" wine. But might be useful to salvage to use for cooking or
> maybe to leave out at a big party for the people who just want alcohol.

Complete agreement, I've tried but the result was nowhere near what it
should have been. Gets rid of some wet cardboard, but leaves a scalped
wine. Not a viable solution, sadly.



--
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