Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info. I've always preferred tawnies to rubies and have
> never been fortunate enough to taste any quality vintage ports. This
> despite having had the opportunity to travel through Portugal from
> north to south including a couple of days in Porto. Missed my best
> chance I guess.
>
> Porto was depressing. It was shortly after the "revolution" and made
> me feel I was in Bulgaria.

And have you ever been to Bulgaria?


> People all in black clothing, blocks of
> tenement style apartments and loudspeakers on the corners blasting out
> martial music and propaganda.

When was Bulgaria like that?


> The Eiffel Bridge however was a thing of wonder.
>
> A couple of years later my counterpart in the Portuguese Air Force for
> NATO exercises take me into the hills above Lisbon and showed me the
> prison where he had been incarcerated for two years by the revolution.
> He was glad that it collapsed. The revolution, not the prison.

Too bad you couldn't have been in the same prison, preferably for
longer. Could have worn off some of your arrogance, though I doubt it.

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.

Ed Rasimus wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:43:49 -0500, Patok >
> wrote:
>
>> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>> Thanks for the info. I've always preferred tawnies to rubies and have
>>> never been fortunate enough to taste any quality vintage ports. This
>>> despite having had the opportunity to travel through Portugal from
>>> north to south including a couple of days in Porto. Missed my best
>>> chance I guess.
>>>
>>> Porto was depressing. It was shortly after the "revolution" and made
>>> me feel I was in Bulgaria.
>> And have you ever been to Bulgaria?
>>
>>
>>> People all in black clothing, blocks of
>>> tenement style apartments and loudspeakers on the corners blasting out
>>> martial music and propaganda.
>> When was Bulgaria like that?
>>
>>
>>> The Eiffel Bridge however was a thing of wonder.
>>>
>>> A couple of years later my counterpart in the Portuguese Air Force for
>>> NATO exercises take me into the hills above Lisbon and showed me the
>>> prison where he had been incarcerated for two years by the revolution.
>>> He was glad that it collapsed. The revolution, not the prison.
>> Too bad you couldn't have been in the same prison, preferably for
>> longer. Could have worn off some of your arrogance, though I doubt it.
>
> No, I've never been in Bulgaria. I've been in Turkey, Syria and
> Greece. I've only seen footage in movies from the period and have no
> personnel experience in the worker's paradises of Eastern Europe
> during the '60s and '70s.

Was the footage black and white? That would explain the "black
clothing, blocks of tenement style apartments". The "worker's paradises"
were quite different from each other, you know. What was true for the
Soviet Union, for example, was not true for Bulgaria. And vice versa.
Bulgaria is actually closer to the Mediterranean countries, and yes,
Portugal, though the last instance of martial music and propaganda
blaring out of speakers must have been in the late 40's and early 50's,
way before my time. And at no point have people worn identical clothing
- black or otherwise.


> I was scheduled for a trip to Bulgaria several times, but never got to
> make it. It didn't offer a lot of time for touring, however. It was
> sort of just a quick pass by to leave a 345kt calling card on a naval
> headquarters.

Too bad you didn't. You could have gotten the luck of the draw and
stayed on a longer visit, the way 329 American and Allied airmen stayed
during WW2. Then you might have gotten a little education, and learned
to appreciate the country; now you're just a typical American fighter pilot.

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.

On Feb 17, 11:02*am, Ed Rasimus > wrote:
>> Bulgaria is about as close to the Mediterranean as Belgium.
>
While mostly I prefer to let the two of you have your own OT argument,
that's just not true. You should look at a map. The Aegean is part of
the Mediterranean, and there's only a thin slice of Greek Macedonia
between the Aegean and Bulgaria.
In any case, what he actually said was "Bulgaria is actually closer to
the Mediterranean countries" than the Soviet Union. Hard to argue with
that. Bulgaria borders Greece and Turkey, and Sofia is about the same
latitude as Rome and a tad south of Marseilles and Nice.

Ed Rasimus wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:30:18 -0500, Patok >
> wrote:
>
>> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:43:49 -0500, Patok >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for the info. I've always preferred tawnies to rubies and have
>>>>> never been fortunate enough to taste any quality vintage ports. This
>>>>> despite having had the opportunity to travel through Portugal from
>>>>> north to south including a couple of days in Porto. Missed my best
>>>>> chance I guess.
>>>>>
>>>>> Porto was depressing. It was shortly after the "revolution" and made
>>>>> me feel I was in Bulgaria.
>>>> And have you ever been to Bulgaria?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> People all in black clothing, blocks of
>>>>> tenement style apartments and loudspeakers on the corners blasting out
>>>>> martial music and propaganda.
>>>> When was Bulgaria like that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The Eiffel Bridge however was a thing of wonder.
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of years later my counterpart in the Portuguese Air Force for
>>>>> NATO exercises take me into the hills above Lisbon and showed me the
>>>>> prison where he had been incarcerated for two years by the revolution.
>>>>> He was glad that it collapsed. The revolution, not the prison.
>>>> Too bad you couldn't have been in the same prison, preferably for
>>>> longer. Could have worn off some of your arrogance, though I doubt it.
>>> No, I've never been in Bulgaria. I've been in Turkey, Syria and
>>> Greece. I've only seen footage in movies from the period and have no
>>> personnel experience in the worker's paradises of Eastern Europe
>>> during the '60s and '70s.
>> Was the footage black and white? That would explain the "black
>> clothing, blocks of tenement style apartments". The "worker's paradises"
>> were quite different from each other, you know. What was true for the
>> Soviet Union, for example, was not true for Bulgaria. And vice versa.
>> Bulgaria is actually closer to the Mediterranean countries, and yes,
>> Portugal, though the last instance of martial music and propaganda
>> blaring out of speakers must have been in the late 40's and early 50's,
>> way before my time. And at no point have people worn identical clothing
>> - black or otherwise.
>
> Bulgaria is about as close to the Mediterranean as Belgium. My targets
> were along the Black Sea coast.

You don't know your geography, even.

>
> You might want to check the dates of the Portuguese Carnation
> Revolution which took place in 1974.
>
> I didn't say identical clothing, I said black. Black suits, black
> dresses, black hats on men, black shawls on women. No reds, yellows,
> pinks, greens, etc. White shirts and blouses. Dark and somber.

What relevance do the dates have? Yes, I know the Portuguese
revolution was in 1974. My point being completely different - in
Bulgaria there is/was no wearing of "Black suits, black
dresses, black hats on men, black shawls on women." The only people in
Bulgaria who might have worn all black traditionally at that time were
granny widows. Nobody else wore identically colored clothing, let alone
all black. Your mental picture of what Bulgaria was, is completely wrong.

>>
>>> I was scheduled for a trip to Bulgaria several times, but never got to
>>> make it. It didn't offer a lot of time for touring, however. It was
>>> sort of just a quick pass by to leave a 345kt calling card on a naval
>>> headquarters.
>> Too bad you didn't. You could have gotten the luck of the draw and
>> stayed on a longer visit, the way 329 American and Allied airmen stayed
>> during WW2. Then you might have gotten a little education, and learned
>> to appreciate the country; now you're just a typical American fighter pilot.
>
> Your last clause is an oxymoron. There is nothing typical about those
> who have earned the appellation.

Oh, but there is. The arrogantly ignorant attitude. The refusal to
even acknowledge being wrong, let alone apologize. GWB was another
typical representative.

>
> I've got plenty of education including master's degrees in both
> political science and international relations. I've written three
> books about the fighter business. I lived in Europe for eight years
> and in Asia for two. And, I currently teach government in a small
> college in Texas. Typical...

It is not about education, it's about culture. You remain a cowboy
at heart.

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.

DaleW wrote:
> On Feb 17, 11:02 am, Ed Rasimus > wrote:
>>> Bulgaria is about as close to the Mediterranean as Belgium.
> While mostly I prefer to let the two of you have your own OT argument,
> that's just not true. You should look at a map. The Aegean is part of
> the Mediterranean, and there's only a thin slice of Greek Macedonia
> between the Aegean and Bulgaria.
> In any case, what he actually said was "Bulgaria is actually closer to
> the Mediterranean countries" than the Soviet Union. Hard to argue with
> that. Bulgaria borders Greece and Turkey, and Sofia is about the same
> latitude as Rome and a tad south of Marseilles and Nice.

Dale, you are correct, of course, even though my main point was not
the geography, but the culture. Bulgaria is very similar culturally to
Greece, for example, and significantly, but less so - to Spain.
To be on topic for the group - Bulgaria is a wine and rakia
(grappa, fruit brandy) country, as opposed to beer and vodka. It is a
fresh salad and cheese country, as opposed to cabbage and potatoes. Most
traditional dishes are Greek-, Turkish- and Spanish- like; quite
different from the cream and borscht based ones in the northern
Communist belt. The drinking culture is Mediterranean - long slow
dinners with crisp quaffable red wine on tap from the cask in the
cellar, conversations, sipping the drink instead of taking shots. It is
laudable to drink much, but not get drunk. And of course, it is one of
the best places in the world for growing and making wine.
I noticed a very interesting and informative article on Bulgarian
wine in the in-flight magazine of Bulgaria Air. It was in the February
issue, and since they make the previous months magazines available
online, I'll post a link here when it appears in March.

--
You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.