Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

I have been into knowing more about wine for over a year. I find the more I
try to discover, the more confusing it seems to be.

Simple question. How exactly does one pronounce (in the USA) "Shiraz?"

Somewhere along the line in the last year, I thought it was sher AS.
Waiters and waitresses seem to emphasize
Sher AHS. (I'm not even going to get into those who told me it was sher
AH...... which I've figured out was the confusion with Syrah......

Your assistance would be appreciated. I love the wine learning curve,
though I am not sure how to get to be more on "wise" wine side.

PattyC

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

The Aussies, who came up with the term, say sheer (like what you do to a sheep)
raz (rhymes with has). Or at least the winemakers I know from down under say
it that way.
Bob Foster, San Diego

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Same goes here in the U.S. as far as I know.

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

"BFSON" > wrote in message
...
> The Aussies, who came up with the term, say sheer (like what you do to a
sheep)
> raz (rhymes with has). Or at least the winemakers I know from down under
say
> it that way.

That sounds about right to me, except it wasn't the Aussies who came up with
the name. Quite likely they don't pronounce it correctly either! Shiraz is
a city in Iran, and close to where wine originated. Ironic that it isn't
the local beverage there anymore, isn't it? :^(

BTW, Shiraz and Syrah are the same grape. I don't know why we spell and
pronounce it differently here in the US, but we do.

Tom S

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

"Tom S" > skrev i melding
om...
>
> "BFSON" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> That sounds about right to me, except it wasn't the Aussies who came up
with
> the name. Quite likely they don't pronounce it correctly either! Shiraz
is
> a city in Iran, and close to where wine originated. Ironic that it isn't
> the local beverage there anymore, isn't it? :^(
>
I once asked an Iranian colleague for the "right" pronounciation which
turned out to be close to the usual continental European "sheerahs".

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Tom S wrote:

> That sounds about right to me, except it wasn't the Aussies who came up with
> the name. Quite likely they don't pronounce it correctly either! Shiraz is
> a city in Iran, and close to where wine originated. Ironic that it isn't
> the local beverage there anymore, isn't it? :^(

Tom,
You are correct that Shiraz (pronounced "Sheer-AHZ" as Anders said) is a
large city in S. Iran, there is no certainty that the Syrah/Shiraz grape has
any connection to it. It *is* true that there was a famous wine made in that
city prior to the ascendency of Islam, but research has established only that
it was a red wine. Meanwhile, the best genetic evidence suggests that the
Syrah cultivar was developed in France. The adoption of the name "Shiraz" for
the grape in Oz was likely just a matter of the similarity in names.

Mark Lipton

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

"Mark Lipton" > skrev i melding
...
>
> You are correct that Shiraz (pronounced "Sheer-AHZ" as Anders said)
I didn't :-) - your version is better, of course, pointing out the stressed
last syllable!
Anders

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 21:39:38 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
> wrote:

>
>"Mark Lipton" > skrev i melding
...
>>
>> You are correct that Shiraz (pronounced "Sheer-AHZ" as Anders said)
>I didn't :-) - your version is better, of course, pointing out the stressed
>last syllable!
>Anders
>
Thank God, I've been pronouncing it correctly. What a load off my
mind. Now all I've got to deal with is Pouilly Fuisse.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> Thank God, I've been pronouncing it correctly. What a load off my
> mind. Now all I've got to deal with is Pouilly Fuisse.

LOL! Isn't that poo-ee-fwee-say?

Tom S

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> Thank God, I've been pronouncing it correctly. What a load off my
> mind. Now all I've got to deal with is Pouilly Fuisse.

Pshaw, Ed! It sounds just like Pouilly-Fumé with the last two syllables
different. :P

Mark Lipton

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Now that was worth puttin my two cents in for.

Mark G



"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
> > Thank God, I've been pronouncing it correctly. What a load off my
> > mind. Now all I've got to deal with is Pouilly Fuisse.
>
> Pshaw, Ed! It sounds just like Pouilly-Fumé with the last two syllables
> different. :P
>
> Mark Lipton
>

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

If I may tiptoe in here for a bit. I thought we were heading in the right
direction earlier in the thread but now I've become a bit confused. If this
pronunciation means that the "AHZ" is pronounced like 'Oz' then I think
we're on the wrong track. The second syllable should rhyme with 'jazz' and
can be slightly emphasized, but definitely not a lot.

My business takes me to Oz a couple times a year and in direct and personal
contact with hundreds of Aussies, and every single one pronounces it the
same way - sh-'razz. Can 19 millions Aussies be wrong? Probably, but just
don't tell them that. They consider it THEIR wine.

Paul


"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>

> Tom,
> You are correct that Shiraz (pronounced "Sheer-AHZ" as Anders said)

> Mark Lipton
>

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
> Thank God, I've been pronouncing it correctly. What a load off my
> mind. Now all I've got to deal with is Pouilly Fuisse.

On this topic (kinda) any suggestions for Bourgeuil?

I love that wine but I hate not being able to name it ;)

Thanks, Dan

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Dan Gravell > wrote in news:4084d40e$0
:

> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>
>> Thank God, I've been pronouncing it correctly. What a load off my
>> mind. Now all I've got to deal with is Pouilly Fuisse.
>
> On this topic (kinda) any suggestions for Bourgeuil?
>
> I love that wine but I hate not being able to name it ;)
>
> Thanks, Dan
>

you are not alone on either count, lol

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Mr Clean wrote:
> If I may tiptoe in here for a bit. I thought we were heading in the right
> direction earlier in the thread but now I've become a bit confused. If this
> pronunciation means that the "AHZ" is pronounced like 'Oz' then I think
> we're on the wrong track. The second syllable should rhyme with 'jazz' and
> can be slightly emphasized, but definitely not a lot.

You're correct in reference to the wine, but the city in Iran is
pronounced as I described. Sorry for the confusion!

Mark Lipton

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

"Mr Clean" > wrote in message
...
> If I may tiptoe in here for a bit. I thought we were heading in the right
> direction earlier in the thread but now I've become a bit confused. If
this
> pronunciation means that the "AHZ" is pronounced like 'Oz' then I think
> we're on the wrong track. The second syllable should rhyme with 'jazz' and
> can be slightly emphasized, but definitely not a lot.
>
> My business takes me to Oz a couple times a year and in direct and
personal
> contact with hundreds of Aussies, and every single one pronounces it the
> same way - sh-'razz.

Sounds like a local affectation; IOW, a regional accent. I can hear Paul
Hogan pronouncing it that way.

The Brits do something similar (but different) with "hot dog" e.g.,
pronouncing the Os as something between short and long vowels (hôt dôg). We
in the land of the hot dog know _that's_ not right! ;^D

> Can 19 millions Aussies be wrong?

Only in all the rest of the world. :^)

Tom S

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:24:23 GMT, "Tom S" >
took the time to tell us :

>
>"Mr Clean" > wrote in message
...
>> If I may tiptoe in here for a bit. I thought we were heading in the right
>> direction earlier in the thread but now I've become a bit confused. If
>this
>> pronunciation means that the "AHZ" is pronounced like 'Oz' then I think
>> we're on the wrong track. The second syllable should rhyme with 'jazz' and
>> can be slightly emphasized, but definitely not a lot.
>>
>> My business takes me to Oz a couple times a year and in direct and
>personal
>> contact with hundreds of Aussies, and every single one pronounces it the
>> same way - sh-'razz.
>
>Sounds like a local affectation; IOW, a regional accent. I can hear Paul
>Hogan pronouncing it that way.
>
>The Brits do something similar (but different) with "hot dog" e.g.,
>pronouncing the Os as something between short and long vowels (hôt dôg). We
>in the land of the hot dog know _that's_ not right! ;^D
>
>> Can 19 millions Aussies be wrong?
>
>Only in all the rest of the world. :^)
>
>Tom S
>
If I pronounce it Shir ARZ... the way it should, I get funny looks, so
good ol' shir AZZ does the job. :>)

You say tomAYtoe...we say tomARToe... who really cares, as long as
they taste good.

Regards from an aussie who knows he is wrong, but, who does have an
accent to deal with.

Swooper

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Swooper wrote......

> If I pronounce it Shir ARZ... the way it should, I get funny looks, so
> good ol' shir AZZ does the job. :>)

From a Kiwi perspective - Shir AZZ does it for me. (Syrah = cir AHH)

>
> You say tomAYtoe...we say tomARToe... who really cares, as long as
> they taste good.

Yes, but we say daRnce while you say dAnce!
We say shit - you say shEEt!

Actually, my pet peeve is the way some people crassly abbreviate "Savvy"
meaning Sauvignon.

>
> Regards from an aussie who knows he is wrong, but, who does have an
> accent to deal with.

Hell's teeth man, your accent is a piece of cake compared to some of the
"English" I heard in rural Norfolk (England)

I had absolutely no idea what was being said - I literally needed an
interpreter!!!!

--
st.helier; Auckland; NZ
email - hukerenui at hotmail dot com

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

<Swoooper @bulldogkennel.com> wrote in message
...
> You say tomAYtoe...we say tomARToe... who really cares, as long as
> they taste good.

??? I've never heard anyone pronounce tomato with an "r" in it. I've only
heard toMAYto and toMAHto. Isn't that the way that song goes?

> Regards from an aussie who knows he is wrong, but, who does have an
> accent to deal with.

My sympathies from us, the totally _accentless_ folks here on the West Coast
of the USA.

....well, except for all the New Yawkers and other immigrants that is...
;^D <ducking and covering!>

S moT

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

As the person who started this thread, may I say this was fascinating? I am
tacking my comments (and yeah, top posting...) to this response because it
related to my thoughts.

I SWEAR I thought it was sher AZ as in jazz, but many in Pittsburgh, Pa seem
to try an AH me to death and imply I don't know what I am saying. I also am
wondering if 19 million Aussies might not know the way to say it? What I
have learned, and why I like learning about wine here, is that no one really
knows the right answer, so I can be more comfortable with my general lack of
knowledge....

PattyC


"Mr Clean" > wrote in message
...
> If I may tiptoe in here for a bit. I thought we were heading in the right
> direction earlier in the thread but now I've become a bit confused. If
this
> pronunciation means that the "AHZ" is pronounced like 'Oz' then I think
> we're on the wrong track. The second syllable should rhyme with 'jazz' and
> can be slightly emphasized, but definitely not a lot.
>
> My business takes me to Oz a couple times a year and in direct and
personal
> contact with hundreds of Aussies, and every single one pronounces it the
> same way - sh-'razz. Can 19 millions Aussies be wrong? Probably, but just
> don't tell them that. They consider it THEIR wine.
>
> Paul
>
>
> "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> > Tom,
> > You are correct that Shiraz (pronounced "Sheer-AHZ" as Anders said)
>
> > Mark Lipton
> >
>
>

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

We had a fellow hanging around for a while who knew ALL the answers.

Hmmm - a bit conspicuous by his absence, particularly when the going got
Ph...g hard!!!!

--
st.helier

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

"Tom S" > wrote in message . com>...
> "Mr Clean" > wrote in message
> ...
> > If I may tiptoe in here for a bit. I thought we were heading in the right
> > direction earlier in the thread but now I've become a bit confused. If
> this
> > pronunciation means that the "AHZ" is pronounced like 'Oz' then I think
> > we're on the wrong track. The second syllable should rhyme with 'jazz' and
> > can be slightly emphasized, but definitely not a lot.
> >
> > My business takes me to Oz a couple times a year and in direct and
> personal
> > contact with hundreds of Aussies, and every single one pronounces it the
> > same way - sh-'razz.
>
> Sounds like a local affectation; IOW, a regional accent. I can hear Paul
> Hogan pronouncing it that way.
>
> The Brits do something similar (but different) with "hot dog" e.g.,
> pronouncing the Os as something between short and long vowels (hôt dôg). We
> in the land of the hot dog know _that's_ not right! ;^D
>
> > Can 19 millions Aussies be wrong?
>
> Only in all the rest of the world. :^)
>
> Tom S



OK, just to clear up a few things in this thread...

1) Ancient City in Persia/Modern City in Iran = shee-RAWZ ("a"
pronounced as halfway between "ah" and "oh" in Farsi).

2) Syrah clone, introduced and named FIRST IN SOUTH AFRICA, **THEN**
AUSTRALIA, thought (erroneously) to originate in or around the city of
Shiraz = shi-RAZZ (full-on Aussie-style!).

3) Pouilly-Fuissé AND Pouilly-Fumé = poo(ee)-YEE fwee-SAY AND
fu*-MAY ("u*" = hold your mouth in an "oo", but say "ee"; alternative
American pron. is "foo-MAY").

4) And finally... Bourgueil = boor-***.

Hope that helps!

Kyle in Seattle

*** Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I might whet my mind and say
something clever. -- Aristophanes ***

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Kyle in Seattle wrote:
> 4) And finally... Bourgueil = boor-***.
>
> Hope that helps!

Thanks!

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

On 20 Apr 2004 21:36:12 -0700, (Kyle in Seattle) said:

[]
] 4) And finally... Bourgueil = boor-***.
]

My apologies Kyle, I don't think that's quite spot on. The last syllable is
certainly not pronounced "***" as in "a *** picnic" bit closer to "goy"
as in, well, goyim; but with a hard 'y' on the end, perhaps "goy-uh".

It's not exact but as close as I've come to putting it into english
phonetics.

HTH,

-E (writing from Le Cercueil, which rhymes with Bourgueil.)

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Emery Davis wrote:

> On 20 Apr 2004 21:36:12 -0700, (Kyle in Seattle) said:
>
> []
> ] 4) And finally... Bourgueil = boor-***.
> ]
>
> My apologies Kyle, I don't think that's quite spot on. The last syllable is
> certainly not pronounced "***" as in "a *** picnic" bit closer to "goy"
> as in, well, goyim; but with a hard 'y' on the end, perhaps "goy-uh".
>
> It's not exact but as close as I've come to putting it into english
> phonetics.

ARGGHHHHH!

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:25:01 +0100, Dan Gravell > said:

] Emery Davis wrote:
]
] > On 20 Apr 2004 21:36:12 -0700, (Kyle in Seattle) said:
] >
] > []
] > ] 4) And finally... Bourgueil = boor-***.
] > ]
] >
] > My apologies Kyle, I don't think that's quite spot on. The last syllable is
] > certainly not pronounced "***" as in "a *** picnic" bit closer to "goy"
] > as in, well, goyim; but with a hard 'y' on the end, perhaps "goy-uh".
] >
] > It's not exact but as close as I've come to putting it into english
] > phonetics.
]
] ARGGHHHHH!

Sorry Dan. I did try to find an audio for you on the excellent (and sometimes
afw contributer) Strat's place, but sadly bourgueil is not listed. You may find
it useful however; the pronunciation for shiraz is given at

http://www.stratsplace.com/dict/d225.wav

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

It may be a bit OT, but I've always found this topic interesting as it
relates to automobile brand names. My instinct is always to try to
pronounce a name the way it's 'home country' pronounces it, especially when
the subject is completely indigenous to that country.

The name Porsche is a prime example. All over the US it's usually
pronounced "PORSH", when every really knowledgeable source will say
"POR-SHUH".

Also, only a small number in the US will say "JAG-YOU-ER" (or similar), the
way it is pronounced in Great Britain and by every transplanted Brit I've
ever heard say it. Americans, almost unanimously, will say "JAG-WAHR".

I try to say "SHIR-AZZ" because I consider that variant to be "indigenous"
to Australia. But, "SHIR-AHZ" does come more easily. Probably because of
Syrah.

For a long time, I pronounced the word Meritage as if it were French
("MER-IH-TAHJ". It 'seemed like' it should be French. I was corrected and
looked it up on the Meritage Assocation website. It's definitely pronounced
like "heritage'. I should have known, as the term is, apparently, indigenous
to the US.

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question (Going OT)
 

Midlife wrote:

> The name Porsche is a prime example. All over the US it's usually
> pronounced "PORSH", when every really knowledgeable source will say
> "POR-SHUH".

Actually, some people pronounce it, "PORSH", for the same reason they say,
"SHEVY", for Chevrolet. [And how do you pronounce, "Chevrolet", if you stick to
the pronounciation according to the country of origin? "CHEV-ROW-LETT"? :-) ]

Regards,

- Roy

=*=*=
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark
Twain
The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Niles Crane pronounced it Shir-AHHHZ in 'Whine Club' - surely he must be
correct?

"PattyC" > wrote in message
...
> As the person who started this thread, may I say this was fascinating? I
am
> tacking my comments (and yeah, top posting...) to this response because it
> related to my thoughts.
>
> I SWEAR I thought it was sher AZ as in jazz, but many in Pittsburgh, Pa
seem
> to try an AH me to death and imply I don't know what I am saying. I also
am
> wondering if 19 million Aussies might not know the way to say it? What I
> have learned, and why I like learning about wine here, is that no one
really
> knows the right answer, so I can be more comfortable with my general lack
of
> knowledge....
>
> PattyC
>

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Emery Davis > wrote in message >...
> On 20 Apr 2004 21:36:12 -0700, (Kyle in Seattle) said:
>
> []
> ] 4) And finally... Bourgueil = boor-***.
> ]
>
> My apologies Kyle, I don't think that's quite spot on. The last syllable is
> certainly not pronounced "***" as in "a *** picnic" bit closer to "goy"
> as in, well, goyim; but with a hard 'y' on the end, perhaps "goy-uh".
>
> It's not exact but as close as I've come to putting it into english
> phonetics.
>
> HTH,
>
> -E (writing from Le Cercueil, which rhymes with Bourgueil.)


OOPS! I'll admit, I messed up on that one. Despite 9 years of
French, that's a combo that eluded me, especially since it's so
uncommon. I also think it's a tough one for non-French speakers to
reproduce. My French contacts liken it to the French word "oeil",
meaning "eye", which would make the pronunciation of the final
syllable (which receives the stress) as halfway between "goy-uh" and
"gu(ee)(y)", which is tougher than hell to write out unless we could
post in IPA!

Thanks for the gentle correction, Emery! I stand... corrected! :-)~

Kyle in Seattle

*** Bring me a beaker of wine, so that I might whet my mind and say
something clever. -- Aristophanes ***

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question (Going OT)
 

in article , Roy at
wrote on 4/21/04 10:32 AM:

> Midlife wrote:
>
>> The name Porsche is a prime example. All over the US it's usually
>> pronounced "PORSH", when every really knowledgeable source will say
>> "POR-SHUH".
>
> Actually, some people pronounce it, "PORSH", for the same reason they say,
> "SHEVY", for Chevrolet. [And how do you pronounce, "Chevrolet", if you stick
> to
> the pronounciation according to the country of origin? "CHEV-ROW-LETT"? :-)
> ]
>
> Regards,
>
> - Roy
>
> =*=*=
> Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark
> Twain
> The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. - Oscar Wilde
>
>


That's an interesting take, and one that I have never considered. Adding
the "UH" to "PORSH" seems barely more than a quick exhale at the end, not
really a shortening of it or a "nickname" (as I would consider "Chevy" to be
for Chevrolet). Further, I certainly have no real knowledge of French
pronunciation (and may be about to prove it), but the "AY" sound at the end
of Chevrolet always seemed to make sense given that I've thought final
consonants are generally not sounded in French. Is it really pronounced
"Chev-ro-lett" in France (or Switzerland, where Louis Chevrolet was born)??

Much of my thinking on this has been that the difference is that Porsche is
a man's name (Ferdinand Porsche, a German) and the car is made in Germany,
so it seems something of a liberty to Anglicize that pronunciation. So...
the Chevrolet question is really quite central to this.

Any third opinions out there?

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

In om,
Tom S > typed:

> ??? I've never heard anyone pronounce tomato with an "r" in it.
I've
> only heard toMAYto and toMAHto. Isn't that the way that song
goes?


Anyone ever seen the film with the skit in which Peter Cook plays
someone who is taking a singing audition and asked to sight read
a song he's never seen before?

He sings "You say toMAHto and I say toMAHto..." with the most
puzzled expression on his face.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:10:46 +1200, "st.helier"
> took the time to tell us :

>Swooper wrote......
>
>> If I pronounce it Shir ARZ... the way it should, I get funny looks, so
>> good ol' shir AZZ does the job. :>)
>
>From a Kiwi perspective - Shir AZZ does it for me. (Syrah = cir AHH)
>
>>
>> You say tomAYtoe...we say tomARToe... who really cares, as long as
>> they taste good.
>
>Yes, but we say daRnce while you say dAnce!
>We say shit - you say shEEt!
>
>Actually, my pet peeve is the way some people crassly abbreviate "Savvy"
>meaning Sauvignon.
>
>>
>> Regards from an aussie who knows he is wrong, but, who does have an
>> accent to deal with.
>
>Hell's teeth man, your accent is a piece of cake compared to some of the
>"English" I heard in rural Norfolk (England)
>I had absolutely no idea what was being said - I literally needed an
>interpreter!!!!

My first wife's grandma was a Scot, after 65 years of her life down
under.... I still could not understand a word she said. :>)

We ALL have an accent. Accents are the 'terroir' of our voices (to
keep it On Topic). The Oz/Kiwi stir always circles around 2
words..... we say fish (ok....feesh) and u say Fush. We say six.... u
say sux. A Queenslander talks differently to a Melburnian, as
different again to a Taswegian, a Sydneyite etc.

Working in Buffalo for a stint, I found it easy to pick a Canadian
accent from an American, (which endeared me to the thankful
Canadians...:>)), but as I asked Tom S in another post, found it
bizarre in many parts of the States, that folks there vehemently
denied they had an 'accent', almost being insulted by my suggestion
(which was normally a guess of their region of habitat). Often
conversations thus were modified and went as...

Hey Bill, are you a New Yorker?"
"Yeah...how did ya know ?"
"Ahh, it is your acc.... umm...just a guess"

Hooroo......

Swooper....
PS: Hope you haven't forgotten our little wager. Would hate to think
a Trans Tasman rivalry could spring from a welshed bet..:>)

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:01:34 GMT, "Tom S" >
took the time to tell us :

>
><Swoooper @bulldogkennel.com> wrote in message
.. .
>> You say tomAYtoe...we say tomARToe... who really cares, as long as
>> they taste good.
>
>??? I've never heard anyone pronounce tomato with an "r" in it. I've only
>heard toMAYto and toMAHto. Isn't that the way that song goes?

OK...ART...AHT..... whaaaat's the diff...:>) It ain't an "A" was the
point.
>
>> Regards from an aussie who knows he is wrong, but, who does have an
>> accent to deal with.
>
>My sympathies from us, the totally _accentless_ folks here on the West Coast
>of the USA.
>
>...well, except for all the New Yawkers and other immigrants that is...
>;^D <ducking and covering!>

Tell me Tom. On my many sojourns to the States, I soon learnt not to
acknowledge/comment regarding an "accent" for many Americans, as they
would quite harshly respond. "I don't have an accent...you do". I
started to pick a NY'er from a mid westerner, a southerner etc etc,
but it seemed to me many americans took to the suggestion they had an
accent (or as I said, we ALL have accents) as an insult. Any
comments?

Regards Swooper

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Swoooper @bulldogkennel.com wrote:

> Tell me Tom. On my many sojourns to the States, I soon learnt not to
> acknowledge/comment regarding an "accent" for many Americans, as they
> would quite harshly respond. "I don't have an accent...you do". I
> started to pick a NY'er from a mid westerner, a southerner etc etc,
> but it seemed to me many americans took to the suggestion they had an
> accent (or as I said, we ALL have accents) as an insult. Any
> comments?

Dunno, Swoop. In my experience, most people don't think they have an
accent until they travel far enough from home to hear others speaking
with a _different_ accent. However, Californians (and most West
Coasters) often buy in to the "no accent" business because they sound
like what they hear on TV (for the most part). As a youngster, I was
once told by a Midwesterner that I had the _strongest_ California accent
that he'd ever heard -- that threw me for a loop! Personally, I think
that regional accents are wonderful, and I decry their diminishment in
this age of cultural homogeneity and pervasive televsion.

Mark Lipton

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

<Swoooper @bulldogkennel.com> wrote in message
...
> Tell me Tom. On my many sojourns to the States, I soon learnt not to
> acknowledge/comment regarding an "accent" for many Americans, as they
> would quite harshly respond. "I don't have an accent...you do". I
> started to pick a NY'er from a mid westerner, a southerner etc etc,
> but it seemed to me many americans took to the suggestion they had an
> accent (or as I said, we ALL have accents) as an insult. Any
> comments?

One _could_ argue on the basis of Relativity that we _all_ have accents.
;^)

Based on the mainstream media in the USA, however, the Western US version of
the English language seems to be the most commonly spoken in this Country.
Not too surprising really, as this is where all the TV and movie studios are
based.

Tom S

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

>> Tell me Tom. On my many sojourns to the States, I soon learnt not to
>> acknowledge/comment regarding an "accent" for many Americans, as they
>> would quite harshly respond. "I don't have an accent...you do".

I'm not sure that many parts of the country are adverse to admitting their
accents. Southerners seem to be quite proud of theirs as long as you pick out
what area of the South that they're from! I had a similar experience in France
when travelling through Burgundy. I remarked to a Burgundian shop keeper that
I was having a difficult time following his French because of his accent. He
got somewhat indignant and remarked that my French was so bad that he preferred
to carry on in English....and he didn't speak any English!
Bi!!

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

Dan Gravell > wrote:

> On this topic (kinda) any suggestions for Bourgeuil?

Spelling it correctly - Bourgueil - is already half the work. The
first half is quite similar to "boo", the second comes close to
"***" (but more like the "ai" in "maitre d'") , with the stress on
the second syllable.

M.

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

> I remarked to a Burgundian shop keeper that
>I was having a difficult time following his French because of his accent.


My French is passable because I live in Canada and took it as a kid in school
(and had to revive it when doing graduate work) and have travelled in France
(amazing how much comes back to you - listening to them saying that these
Canadians aren't the blackguards the Americans last month were and being able
to agree with them in French is fun).

I nevertheless have the most trouble with the accent in the South - they speak
some sort of Provencal patois that defies even my finely tuned ear....

Shiraz - Wine Rookie Question
 

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> Dan Gravell > wrote:
>
> > On this topic (kinda) any suggestions for Bourgeuil?
>
> Spelling it correctly - Bourgueil - is already half the work. The
> first half is quite similar to "boo", the second comes close to
> "***" (but more like the "ai" in "maitre d'") , with the stress on
> the second syllable.
>
Hi Michael
I'm sure you are far better than me in French, and I may be all mistaken -
but my explanation of the pronounciation to a German would be something like
"Burgöij"...
Your opinion is?
Anders