I'm relatively new to wine drinking and would like to now how one becomes
efficient at tasting, judging, and avoiding looking like a peasant fool at
social functions. How or where do you learn what is good and what is not? Is
it personal preference or just professional snobbery ?

Just curious. Thanks in advance.

^_^ L

"§ Lauksna §" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> I'm relatively new to wine drinking and would like to now how one becomes
> efficient at tasting, judging, and avoiding looking like a peasant fool at
> social functions. How or where do you learn what is good and what is not?
Is
> it personal preference or just professional snobbery ?
>
> Just curious. Thanks in advance.

I can give you two tips:
(1) Drink what tastes and smells good to you, from a wine glass that's
never more than half full.

(2) Hold the glass by the stem - never the globe. Wine glasses have stems
to keep body heat away from the wine. Holding the glass by the globe
defeats the purpose of the stem, makes unsightly smears on the glass and
marks you as a rube.

Tom S

"§ Lauksna §" > skrev i meddelandet
nk.net...
> I'm relatively new to wine drinking and would like to now how one becomes
> efficient at tasting, judging, and avoiding looking like a peasant fool at
> social functions.

Suggestion 1 A is always hanging out in this ng, where lots and lots of
people with very discriminate and knowledgable palates, and others, such as
yours truly, with less discrimiation but undaunted enthusiasm, will happily
share their respective 2 cents.

Next suggestion is joining a tasting club/circle, or, if such a one is not
found in your neck of the woods, try starting one yourself.

Get a good book.

Get a good magazine. (On the whole, this magazine is seldom, if ever, Wine
Spectator )
> How or where do you learn what is good and what is not?
Testing, testing, testing. Listening to others. Combining this wine with
that food stuff. Reading in books/magazines. Find out which are the classics
(Amarone with Reggiano Parmigiano, e g) and which is the new thing (same
wine with dark chocolate).

> Is
> it personal preference or just professional snobbery ?

Quite often, one starts with a definite preference for certain types of
wine - perhaps the fruit up front, Oz Shiraz, or similar from the USA (Bonny
Doone Big House comes to mind). Similarly, one might be quite fond of some
of the Alsace whites, or their German counterparts - very much fruit and
grapes, a bit of residual sugar even - or, MOscato d´Asti from Piemonte. On
the other hand, the severe Northern Rhone Syrahs, and the bone dry white
Bourgognes may not be, or seem, acccessible. That is of course quite all
right. As one tries out the alternatives, perhaps going from an entry-level
Australian Shiraz to a fairly welcoming Cote de RHone, one extends ones
palate, one gains a wider range of possible tastes - perhaps one tries a
pleasantly mature Meursault and recognises that, in fact, this is in some
ways superior to a CHilean Chardonnay (although, unfortunately, quite a bit
more expensive) - well, this is not snobbery. This is evolution. It´s like
litterature. Noone starts by reading 'Ulysses' by James Joyce (a book which
I happen to love ardently and re-read about every 5 years).
>

> Just curious. Thanks in advance.
Curiosity, in case you are not of a feline persuasion, has rarely if ever
harmed anyone (this may or may not lead up to a seriously off-topic
subthread).

I hope this is a some small help to you.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

Thanks a 10^6!

The advice was priceless. I will get a book or mag. next time I'm out.

Again Thnks!

Cheers

^_^ L

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 06:02:20 GMT, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
> wrote:

>"§ Lauksna §" > skrev i meddelandet
ink.net...
>> I'm relatively new to wine drinking and would like to now how one becomes
>> efficient at tasting, judging, and avoiding looking like a peasant fool at
>> social functions.
>
>Suggestion 1 A is always hanging out in this ng, where lots and lots of
>people with very discriminate and knowledgable palates, and others, such as
>yours truly, with less discrimiation but undaunted enthusiasm, will happily
>share their respective 2 cents.
>
>Next suggestion is joining a tasting club/circle, or, if such a one is not
>found in your neck of the woods, try starting one yourself.
>
>Get a good book.
>
>Get a good magazine. (On the whole, this magazine is seldom, if ever, Wine
>Spectator )
>> How or where do you learn what is good and what is not?
>Testing, testing, testing. Listening to others. Combining this wine with
>that food stuff. Reading in books/magazines. Find out which are the classics
>(Amarone with Reggiano Parmigiano, e g) and which is the new thing (same
>wine with dark chocolate).
>
>> Is
>> it personal preference or just professional snobbery ?
>
>Quite often, one starts with a definite preference for certain types of
>wine - perhaps the fruit up front, Oz Shiraz, or similar from the USA (Bonny
>Doone Big House comes to mind). Similarly, one might be quite fond of some
>of the Alsace whites, or their German counterparts - very much fruit and
>grapes, a bit of residual sugar even - or, MOscato d´Asti from Piemonte. On
>the other hand, the severe Northern Rhone Syrahs, and the bone dry white
>Bourgognes may not be, or seem, acccessible. That is of course quite all
>right. As one tries out the alternatives, perhaps going from an entry-level
>Australian Shiraz to a fairly welcoming Cote de RHone, one extends ones
>palate, one gains a wider range of possible tastes - perhaps one tries a
>pleasantly mature Meursault and recognises that, in fact, this is in some
>ways superior to a CHilean Chardonnay (although, unfortunately, quite a bit
>more expensive) - well, this is not snobbery. This is evolution. It´s like
>litterature. Noone starts by reading 'Ulysses' by James Joyce (a book which
>I happen to love ardently and re-read about every 5 years).
>>
>
>> Just curious. Thanks in advance.
>Curiosity, in case you are not of a feline persuasion, has rarely if ever
>harmed anyone (this may or may not lead up to a seriously off-topic
>subthread).
>
>I hope this is a some small help to you.
>
>Cheers
>
Nil,

<snip>
, and others, such as yours truly, with less discrimination but
undaunted enthusiasm, will happily
>share their respective 2 cents.

Bravo, your response to the poster was fantastic. Think many of us in
this ng are out of the beginner stage, past the novice and moving
toward ???? stage.
Well said Nil !

Larry Stumpf,
S. Ontario,
Canada

"Tom S" > wrote in message om>...
> "§ Lauksna §" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > I'm relatively new to wine drinking and would like to now how one becomes
> > efficient at tasting, judging, and avoiding looking like a peasant fool at
> > social functions. How or where do you learn what is good and what is not?
> Is
> > it personal preference or just professional snobbery ?
> >
> > Just curious. Thanks in advance.
>
> I can give you two tips:
> (1) Drink what tastes and smells good to you, from a wine glass that's
> never more than half full.

And try even those wines that don't. A little smell and sip of
something that doesn't appeal to you right away can still be
educational.
>
> (2) Hold the glass by the stem - never the globe. Wine glasses have stems
> to keep body heat away from the wine. Holding the glass by the globe
> defeats the purpose of the stem, makes unsightly smears on the glass and
> marks you as a rube.

I strongly disagree. Whites are (IMHO) commonly served way too cold. I
frequently find myself cupping the bowl with two hands to warm the
wine to release the aromatics.

I serve my reds too cold. I very rarely chamber the wines, instead I
open them in the cellar and decant or bring them straight up to open
and pour from the bottle. Again, I frequently find that I cup the bowl
of the glass (now there's a strange sentence, I wish I could have
worked plate in there somehow :-)) to warm the wine slightly. If this
marks me as a rube, I'll change my name. Just call me Rube from now
on.

My suggestion to the OP. Drink and read. Don't keep drinking the same
wine. Always look for something new to try and read from a variety of
sources. They don't always agree and it helps to get a second
oppinion.

Most important, don't let anyone tell you what you like or should
like. Your likes and dislikes are your own. On the other hand, keep an
open mind. Just because you didn't like Pinot Noir from vineyard X
doesn't mean you won't like vineyard Y's or that you won't like
vineyard X's two years from now (or even 30 minutes from now).

The world of wine is a journey. Enjoy the trip, not just the
destination.

Andy (I mean Rube)

Nils makes very good points. I might add if you are in an area where stores
sponsor tastings, that's a good way to taste a variety of wines (although
tastings 5- 50 wines back to back might not be easiest way to learn!). In any
case, there's no substitute for drinking wine regularly (and paying attention
when you do). Good luck!
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

> I strongly disagree. Whites are (IMHO) commonly served way too cold. I
> frequently find myself cupping the bowl with two hands to warm the
> wine to release the aromatics.

I agree that white wine can be so cold that it almost tastes like water. I
like my reds, in what I like to call, the Medieval Way, which is around room
temp. My companions can't stand it that way...

There are a couple of stores that have tasting[s] every Saturday. However, I
have a crippling fear of looking like a complete and total ass

You guys/gals are great!



"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> Nils makes very good points. I might add if you are in an area where
stores
> sponsor tastings, that's a good way to taste a variety of wines (although
> tastings 5- 50 wines back to back might not be easiest way to learn!). In
any
> case, there's no substitute for drinking wine regularly (and paying
attention
> when you do). Good luck!
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

"§ Lauksna §" says....

>However, I have a crippling fear of looking like a complete and total ass <

And that "fear" is part of the entire problem that still exists with wine
today. The inferred caste and classification of those that enjoy, is still
killing the industry.

Look.........I understand why you feel that way and can only help you by saying
that:

1.) We "all" started somewhere and local tastings are a great way to get a jump
start on the fun and knowledge. If the crowd pressures you for feedback, smile
and simply say "It's a pleasant wine".

2.) The fact that you prefer your reds more room temp than chilled, is a good
sign you are on your way as well.

Be brave. Drink and enjoy and help the next timid soul along the way!
Always here for my fellow syngraphist or oenophile.
--=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=----=*=--

On 2 Jan 2004 07:29:23 -0800, (JEP) said:

] "Tom S" > wrote in message om>...
[]
] > (2) Hold the glass by the stem - never the globe. Wine glasses have stems
] > to keep body heat away from the wine. Holding the glass by the globe
] > defeats the purpose of the stem, makes unsightly smears on the glass and
] > marks you as a rube.
]
] I strongly disagree. Whites are (IMHO) commonly served way too cold. I
] frequently find myself cupping the bowl with two hands to warm the
] wine to release the aromatics.
] []

Andy and Tom,

I think this is one of those where manners must occasionally meet practicality.
This subject just came up the other night, as it happens...

What Tom says is certainly true from the Emily Post perspective. Also, with
very delicate glass, one can lift the bowl from the stem! I've the unfortunate
experience of doing this, when young, with one of my Dad's 18th century
venitians (no not california). He was nice about it but since I always lift from
the stem. I imagine some of the Reidels could come apart like that too.

But, if the wine is too cold, a little hand warmth can really help. Like Andy
I rarely remember to "chambrer," and in any case (as well known to afw regulars!)
my house is very cold. So with our regular glasses we don't hesitate to
cup them, and the wine appreciates it.

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 17:11:45 GMT, "=A7 Lauksna =A7" > said:

] There are a couple of stores that have tasting[s] every Saturday. However=
, I
] have a crippling fear of looking like a complete and total ass
]=20
][]

This may seem obvious, but: remember that anyone who treats you like an
ass, just for being a neophyte, is acting one themselves, no? Who cares wh=
at=20
they think?

You're busy exploring something new, that should be fine in everyone's book
as far as I can see.

-E
--=20
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

§ Lauksna § wrote:

> There are a couple of stores that have tasting[s] every Saturday. However, I
> have a crippling fear of looking like a complete and total ass

If you'd go to an ice cream tasting would you have the same anxiety? If
so, then you might suffer from a different problem than 'inexperience'.
Wine is a matter of taste. If you say, "I do not like it, can't really
tell you why" is just as good as, "I do not like it because it lacks a
firm finish". There's exactly 0 (zero, zip, nil, nada, null) *objective*
evidence that a person disagreeing with you on the taste of wine is more
correct than you. Just go and find some wines you like, keep tasting new
things, forget the rest, it's bull. You'll find (a.k.a, develop) your
taste as you go.. and it changes as time goes on.
When I'm told what "most people like" I remember that most people also
go to McDonalds.

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 04:56:53 GMT, Mike >
wrote:

>§ Lauksna § wrote:
>
>> There are a couple of stores that have tasting[s] every Saturday. However, I
>> have a crippling fear of looking like a complete and total ass
>
>If you'd go to an ice cream tasting would you have the same anxiety? If
>so, then you might suffer from a different problem than 'inexperience'.
>Wine is a matter of taste. If you say, "I do not like it, can't really
>tell you why" is just as good as, "I do not like it because it lacks a
>firm finish". There's exactly 0 (zero, zip, nil, nada, null) *objective*
>evidence that a person disagreeing with you on the taste of wine is more
>correct than you. Just go and find some wines you like, keep tasting new
>things, forget the rest, it's bull. You'll find (a.k.a, develop) your
>taste as you go.. and it changes as time goes on.
>When I'm told what "most people like" I remember that most people also
>go to McDonalds.

Good post,

The initial barrier to tasting is something that comes from the
sommelier culture, one that has developed ritual at the expense of
fun, objectivity and discovery beyond the merely encyclopedic.

incidentally Mike, if your identifier could me more specific, it would
avoid confusion...

Mike

"Mike Tommasi" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 04:56:53 GMT, Mike >
> wrote:
>
> >§ Lauksna § wrote:
> >
> >> There are a couple of stores that have tasting[s] every Saturday.
However, I
> >> have a crippling fear of looking like a complete and total ass
>> ... There's exactly 0 (zero, zip, nil, nada, null) *objective*
> >evidence that a person disagreeing with you on the taste of wine is more
> >correct than you. Just go and find some wines you like, keep tasting new
> >things, forget the rest, it's bull.
.....

> The initial barrier to tasting is something that comes from the
> sommelier culture, one that has developed ritual at the expense of
> fun, objectivity and discovery beyond the merely encyclopedic.

Hear, hear. Also, one should never miss the opportunity of creating some
diversion and merriment with the spectators by comitting a well-executed
prat-fall. Adds class, it does.
Hey, anybody hear tried Romanée-Conti with Cocal-Cola (just kidding!)?!

Drinking wine is for fun, and because you like it, and you do it quite often
socially (very rarely do I empty a box of my Alsatians alone in the cellar).
Ever noticed that a good wine tastes even better in the company of good
friends?
Drinking wine is not for collecting brownie points or honour badges. OK, you
_can_ do it, but ... put it like this, how nice will your new jacket look
with a lot of honour badges stitched to it?

Cheers!

Nils Gustaf
--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

"JEP" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I serve my reds too cold. I very rarely chamber the wines, instead I
> open them in the cellar and decant or bring them straight up to open
> and pour from the bottle.

I think most people from my generation should keep in mind that the
traditional serving of red wine at "room temperature" means a cooler
temperature than we think. Back when that was "established", rooms were
more like 60 degrees. I think that's a good temperature to drink reds, by
the way.

"§ Lauksna §" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> I'm relatively new to wine drinking and would like to now how one becomes
> efficient at tasting, judging, and avoiding looking like a peasant fool at
> social functions. How or where do you learn what is good and what is not?
Is
> it personal preference or just professional snobbery ?
>
> Just curious. Thanks in advance.

First, there's a great book I can recommend for you - Mastering Wine. You
learn about wine by drinking, and going from chapter to chapter comparing
the specific wines he suggests. The only drawback is it was written in
1992. The good news is he is very specific about the wines to compare -
including vintage - so you know you're tasting exactly what he's describing.
The bad news is those vintages are now 10 years too old and can't be found
(we're talking mostly about mostly inexpensive, not-very-aged wines.) The
good news is he gives you lots of alternatives that taste the same, so you
know exactly what to get. And it's available for only a penny!
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V671213F6

Second, we have a new wine "superstore" called Total Wine, and they have
free tastings of 5 or 6 wines every weekend, so you can buy exactly what you
taste - usually not real expensive wines.

Third, don't be afraid to experiment with a few expensive wines if you have
a good idea you'll like them, but whatever you do, drink what YOU like, not
what someone else likes. If you don't taste a big difference between that
$8 bottle and $40 bottle, don't pay for it!

"Mike" > wrote in message
newsYrJb.36846$I07.119349@attbi_s53...
>
> If you'd go to an ice cream tasting would you have the same anxiety? If
> so, then you might suffer from a different problem than 'inexperience'.
> Wine is a matter of taste. If you say, "I do not like it, can't really
> tell you why" is just as good as, "I do not like it because it lacks a
> firm finish". There's exactly 0 (zero, zip, nil, nada, null) *objective*
> evidence that a person disagreeing with you on the taste of wine is more
> correct than you.

It's not a matter of being more correct. I disagree that saying "I don't
know why" is acceptable. You don't have to know what "firm finish" means,
but if you cannot ever describe what you like and don't like to the guy in
the wine store, you're not going to get very many good recommendations for
your next bottle.

"jeffc" > skrev i meddelandet
r.com...
>
> "Mike" > wrote in message
> newsYrJb.36846$I07.119349@attbi_s53...
> >
> > If you'd go to an ice cream tasting would you have the same anxiety? If
> > so, then you might suffer from a different problem than 'inexperience'.
> > Wine is a matter of taste. If you say, "I do not like it, can't really
> > tell you why" is just as good as, "I do not like it because it lacks a
> > firm finish". There's exactly 0 (zero, zip, nil, nada, null) *objective*
> > evidence that a person disagreeing with you on the taste of wine is more
> > correct than you.
>
> It's not a matter of being more correct. I disagree that saying "I don't
> know why" is acceptable. You don't have to know what "firm finish" means,
> but if you cannot ever describe what you like and don't like to the guy in
> the wine store, you're not going to get very many good recommendations for
> your next bottle.

You have a point. So, it is good practice to try to 'intellectualise' your
perceptions of a wine - and it may be a good idea to do that together with
other wine drinkers. What´s special about this, hmmm, smells a bit like
blackberries, a bit like smoked ham (might be a Southern French mixture of
Mourvedre and Syrah) - taste frightfuklky severe and bitter and gives
general impression of biting into an unripe apple - hmmm, this guy is not
likely to appreciate a young Southern French wine ...
You could for instance post your tasting notes to a news group, let´s see, a
name comes to mind, oh oh oh soemthing like ... alt.food.wino? There is a
good chance somebody else tried the same wine (unless, like me, you drink
cheap plonk noone has ever heard about except possibly Mike Tommasi, who has
heard of everything) and will tell you that, in their opinon, it was more of
dark cherries than blackberries, and, the reason it felt like biting inot an
unripe apple was, it should be kept in a cellar for 5 years after which it
will be quite OK ... highly educative.


Cheers

Nils Gustaf
--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote:

> Hey, anybody hear tried Romanée-Conti with Cocal-Cola (just
> kidding!)?!

No, but Austrian 2001 Zweigelt and Spar American Cola light. Called
"Cola-Rot" in German, it was our preferred after-shift drink when the
restaurant closed at 1 a.m. - back in the mid-1980s here in Vienna.

M.