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Wine (alt.food.wine) Devoted to the discussion of wine and wine-related topics. A place to read and comment about wines, wine and food matching, storage systems, wine paraphernalia, etc. In general, any topic related to wine is valid fodder for the group. |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
Many Cabernets from 1968 were outstanding, and some still are.
This bottle was from the near legend, Martin Ray. He has been dead many years. Many of Ray's wines were huge, loaded with tannin, and took up to decades to come around. Some were outstanding. Others were awful. This wine was completely unready for at least 10-20 years. From early tasting by others, it was an extremely tannic and acid monster that was no pleasure to drink. This bottle had a very high fill and had been properly stored. The bottle was of a Burgundy shape - Ray did things his way. The monster has finally resolved. It is still deep scarlet with only a slight trace of age showing around the rim. It has a huge bouquet unlike any other Cabernet I have tasted. There is considerable dark fruit , bell pepper, black pepper, spice, and tobacco in the bouquet and taste. The tannins are now resolved, the acids are not excessive, and it drinks well. The after taste is very long. It has a power more like a Rhone than a Bordeaux. It probably could handle fairly strong game as well as beef. My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase from my email address. Then add . I do not check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response. |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
The only Martin Ray wine I remember having was I think a PN, from mid-90s. Is
it his family that still owns the winery (or at least till recently)? Thanks, as always, for the notes. Dale Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
Dale Williams wrote: > The only Martin Ray wine I remember having was I think a PN, from mid-90s. Is > it his family that still owns the winery (or at least till recently)? Thanks, > as always, for the notes. Dale, IIRC, shortly after Martin Ray's death in the '70s, his name was sold to some corporation and his vineyards became Villa Mt. Eden. Mark Lipton |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message ... > > > Dale Williams wrote: > > > The only Martin Ray wine I remember having was I think a PN, from mid-90s. Is > > it his family that still owns the winery (or at least till recently)? Thanks, > > as always, for the notes. > > Dale, > IIRC, shortly after Martin Ray's death in the '70s, his name was sold to some > corporation and his vineyards became Villa Mt. Eden. More likely, they became part of Mount Eden Vineyards, which is adjacent in Saratoga. Villa Mount Eden is in the Napa Valley, and AFAIK there's no connection between them. Tom S |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
"Cwdjrx _" > wrote in message ... > Many Cabernets from 1968 were outstanding, and some still are. > > This bottle was from the near legend, Martin Ray. He has been dead many > years. Many of Ray's wines were huge, loaded with tannin, and took up to > decades to come around. Some were outstanding. Others were awful. His 1976 Winery Lakes Vineyard Chardonnay is one of my few benchmark wines. It was intensely rich, displaying *perfectly* ripe fruit with a nice, long toasty finish. Ooooh _baby_! ;^D Martin Ray was the kind of guy who tried hard to push the envelope with his wines. His successes were spectacular but, like Babe Ruth, he struck out a lot. Tom S |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
>Martin Ray was the kind of guy who tried hard to push the envelope with his
>wines. His successes were spectacular but, like Babe Ruth, he struck out a >lot. I remember drinking a Martin Ray 1947 Saratoga cab - he bottled everything prior to about 1953 in champagne bottles - maybe he had a deal with a bottle recycler, who knows. I wonder who one could say has the same approach these days? A few years ago I'd have nominated David Bruce, who was also all over the place with interesting idiosyncratic highs and many abyssmal lows, but I get the impression that he has gone establishment in recent years. |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
Tom S wrote: > > IIRC, shortly after Martin Ray's death in the '70s, his name was sold > to some > > corporation and his vineyards became Villa Mt. Eden. > > More likely, they became part of Mount Eden Vineyards, which is adjacent in > Saratoga. Villa Mount Eden is in the Napa Valley, and AFAIK there's no > connection between them. Right you are, Tom. So, after a bit of research, here's the *correct* story: in 1972, Martin Ray lost a battle with his investors and gave up the upper half of his vineyards, which were then called "Mount Eden Vineyards." He continued making wine from the lower vineyards, bottling it under his own name, until his death in 1983. In 1990, Courtney Bentham bought the name from Ray's family and now makes the "Martin Ray" wines. FWIW, there's a decent biography of Martin Ray ("Vineyards in the Sky") which details his most interesting life and his profound impact on the CA wine industry. Mark Lipton |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
Bill Spohn wrote: > I wonder who one could say has the same approach these days? A few years ago > I'd have nominated David Bruce, who was also all over the place with > interesting idiosyncratic highs and many abyssmal lows, but I get the > impression that he has gone establishment in recent years. I agree 100%, Bill. Some of Dr. David's Pinots in the '70s and '80s were among the most bizarre experiments imaginable -- and occasionally fantastic wines! Nowadays, he's much more reliable (if less interesting). Joe Swan was another maverick, but he too alas has departed this mortal coil. There are few true "free spirits" in the CA wine biz these days, largely a product IMHO of the increased cost of doing business. The closest I can think of is Randall Grahm of Bonny Doon (for his humor mostly) but for the most part CA winemakers have become sensible and lost that sense of adventure so prevalent in earlier eras -- for better or worse. Mark Lipton |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
There is a long interview with Martin Ray in Robert Benson's Great
Winemakers of California, Capra Press, 1977, pp.19 - 31. A few answers from Martin Ray himself follow. ____________________________________ "We do absolutely nothing to the red wines. We don't even rack them. Now here's something. I know of no one else who in any way agrees with me about this. But we say if you bring your red grapes in clean - that's the reason for careful picking, cutting off any bad berries, and not allowing any vinegar flies in - if you are careful, you don't have to do anything, and the wine gets its great flavor off the lees, which is solid matter, albuminous material, some tannin, some tartaric, which settes out. We never bottle the red wines before they've been three years in cask." Concerning white wines: "Thats all we do to them, we filter them." " I add yeast immediately as the wines are drawn off the press if it's the white, or to the fermenters for the red. And that culture, you might like to know, is the true Montrachet." " We pick with little scissors, not grape hooks, because to cut with a knife a tough stem like the Cabernet, you squeeze the bunch a little. You break a few berries maybe, the juice starts running, it gets messy and it attracts flies and bees and whatever they carry. We always instruct our pickers to let the bunch lay in the open palm and cut the stem with scissors. Then don't throw the bunch into the box, but lean over and place it carefully." "I get my casks from Louis Latour in Beaune. His own cooper makes them for me." "Now I said there were two reasons for crushing at 5 a. m.; the second reason is to get them before the flies come out. Before sunup there are no vinegar flies, no yellowjackets, no bees, wasps." "Well I don't feel that way, I wish to God that I never had to sell any of my wines, that we could keep all the reds here as long as I live, because I know that they'll still be alive." My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase from my email address. Then add . I do not check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response. |
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Martin Ray Cabernet Sauvignon 1968
"Bill Spohn" > wrote in message ... > >Martin Ray was the kind of guy who tried hard to push the envelope with his > >wines. His successes were spectacular but, like Babe Ruth, he struck out a > >lot. > > I remember drinking a Martin Ray 1947 Saratoga cab - he bottled everything > prior to about 1953 in champagne bottles - maybe he had a deal with a bottle > recycler, who knows. I remember those bottles. The foil was very thin and _glued_ onto the neck of the bottle. What a PIA to remove! > I wonder who one could say has the same approach these days? A few years ago > I'd have nominated David Bruce, who was also all over the place with > interesting idiosyncratic highs and many abyssmal lows, but I get the > impression that he has gone establishment in recent years. David Bruce's 1972 Chardonnay was another of my benchmark wines. What a powerhouse! It aged beautifully, too. I believe that Dr. Bruce has not actually made the wines himself for many years - perhaps 20 or more. I'm sure that he still oversees things to some degree, but he doesn't do the winemaking himself anymore. Tom S |
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