Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
![]() |
|
Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
An unemployed, self-crippled ex-greasemonkey and a reflexologist who
infect these newsgroups with their ignorance of science and the scientific method claim on the basis of a study by Sneddon, et al, that fish experience pain. These two misinformed charlatans have refused to accept any other study, suggesting that the study of Sneddon, et al, trumps every other one in the history of scientific research. Dr James Rose, who's studied animal neurology for thirty years, has refuted the conclusions of Sneddon, Braithwaite, and Gentle. In his critique of their conclusions, Dr Rose pointed to specific flawed definitions and specific flawed interpretations of the researchers in their published findings. Among the flaws were an *improper* distinction between pain and nociception, as well as misinterpretations of responses of fish to stimuli. He also noted that Sneddon, et al, misused statistical analysis in their findings. Among Dr Rose's conclusions is that "Rather than proving a capacity for pain, *THESE RESULTS SHOW A REMARKABLE RESISTANCE TO ORAL TRAUMA BY THE TROUT* [my emphasis]. It comes as no surprise, then, that many anglers have had the experience of catching the same fish repeatedly within a span of a few minutes." From his critique, which is available at the link below, here is Dr Rose's case that Sneddon, et al, misinterpreted results. The behavioral results allegedly showing evidence of pain were misinterpreted. 1. The behavioral studies were done by injecting large volumes of one of three solutions: bee venom, acetic acid solution or saline, into the jaw of rather small trout. For the sizes of the fish used, these injections of liquid would have been equivalent to injecting 100 milliliters (more that 3 ounces) of solution into the lip of a human. Bee venom contains a great variety of toxins that affect the nervous system and cause a hormonal stress response in addition to stimulating receptors signaling tissue injury. In spite of the large dose of venom or acid, the activity level of these fish was not affected, they did not hide under a shelter in the tank and they resumed feeding in less than three hours. Furthermore, fish that received no injection at all or fish that received a saline injection did not feed, on average, for an hour and 20 minutes, showing that a large saline injection produced no more effect than just handling. The acid and venom-injected fish also showed an infrequent rocking behavior that may have reflected a difficulty by the fish in maintaining an upright posture, given the magnitude of the toxic chemical trauma created by the injection. But, even if the infrequent rocking was a response to nociceptive stimulation of the mouth, there is no reason to believe that it is any more than an unconscious nociceptive ] response, rather than an indication of “pain”. 2. Sneddon and associates also state that the acid-injected fish rubbed their mouths against the gravel (they don’t say how often), but the venom-injected fish did not. They concluded that mouth rubbing was an indication of pain because mammals, including humans, rub injured tissues to alleviate nociceptive input. If so, why did the venom-injected fish, that were also supposed to be in pain, not perform this behavior? In addition, injections of irritants into skin tissues is known to cause hyperalgesia, where skin becomes hypersensitive, like the effect of a sunburn. Who rubs sunburned skin against gravel to alleviate the pain? At one point in the paper, Sneddon and associates say that feeding was suppressed because the fish were avoiding mouth stimulation, which would cause “pain.” But later, they say that mouth rubbing was a way of reducing “pain.” These are contradictory interpretations and you can’t have it both ways. Their interpretations of the mouth-rubbing behaviors don’t make sense nor do they show conscious experience of pain. 3. One of the few effects actually produced by the acid or venom injections was an elevated opercular beat rate (breathing). This response could have resulted directly from gill irritation due to leakage or blood borne spread of the acid or venom injections, but even if increased opercular beat rate was due to nociceptive stimulation of the mouth, this unconscious movement proves nothing about conscious pain. 4. One caveat regarding the behavioral data described above is the fact that some of the statistical analyses were not done correctly. Data for opercular beat rate and for time to resume feeding were analyzed by one-way analysis of variance, but conclusions were made about specific group differences in these measures. With this type analysis, it is not legitimate to conclude that one group (e.g. acid or venom injected differed from any other group (e.g. handeled or saline injected), but the authors made such conclusions, nonetheless. Given the sizes of the standard errors of the means for these data, however, the group differences reported by the authors would probably have been substantiated following proper statistical analysis. To summarize, the most impressive thing about the acid and venom injections was the relative absence of behavioral effects, given the magnitude of the toxic injections. How many humans would show little change in behavior or be ready to eat less than three hours after getting a lemon-sized bolus of bee venom or acid solution in their lip? Rather than proving a capacity for pain, these results show a remarkable resistance to oral trauma by the trout. It comes as no surprise, then, that many anglers have had the experience of catching the same fish repeatedly within a span of a few minutes. Of course predatory fishes, including trout, feed avidly on potentially injurious prey like crayfish, crabs and fish that have sharp spines in their fins – which further indicates that these fish are not highly reactive to noxious oral stimuli. In addition, Sneddon and associates claim to have presented the first evidence for nociceptive sensory receptors in fish, but their results were neither wholly original nor unexpected. In my 2002 Reviews paper, I cited a 1971 study by Whitear that showed the presence of C-fibers in fish. C-fibers are a principal type of nociceptive receptor, so there was very good reason to assume that trout would have nociceptive receptors. Another technical issue arises in the authors’ description of their procedure for decerebration of trout in order to make them “insentient.” The term sentience is vague and has no standard scientific meaning, but apparently Sneddon, et al. were performing this decerebration in order to eliminate any potential pain that they assumed was within the capacity of the trout. The usual means of producing a decerebration is to remove all brain tissue above the midbrain. According to Sneddon, et. al, however, they removed the “…olfactory and optic lobes and cerebellum…” This is peculiar and counterproductive because the entire pathway for nociceptive information from the periphery through the brainstem to the cerebral hemispheres would have remained intact in these fish, since the “ofactory lobes” but not entire cerebral hemispheres would have been removed according to this description. If fish could feel pain, as the authors contend (and I dispute), these fish probably would have. The bottom line of this critique is that any attempt to show pain in fish must use valid criteria, including proof of conscious awareness, particularly a kind of awareness that is meaningfully like ours. This is not something that can be taken for granted, because on neurological and behavioral grounds it is so improbable that fish could be conscious and feel pain. Furthermore, the behavioral results of this study show that in spite of very large injections of acid solution or venom, the fish showed little adverse effect, hardly supporting the claim that they were in pain. I wish to emphasize that the improbability that fish can experience pain in no way diminishes our responsibility for concern about their welfare. Fish are capable of robust, unconscious, behavioral, physiological and hormonal responses to stressors, which if sufficiently intense or sustained, can be detrimental to their health. James D. Rose, Ph.D. Department of Zoology and Physiology University of Wyoming Laramie, WY 82071 USA http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/Zoology/faculty/rose/ Full critique: http://tinyurl.com/6ucz |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|