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Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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vegetarian wool
Hello all,
www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live sheep - it can be taken from dead sheep. Also, the RSPCA state that some sheep are cut without anaesthetic to make their skin tighter, to improve the quality of the wool. My vegetarian girlfriend discovered these facts after I'd ripped up and disposed of our old carpets. I can't lay new ones until she's sure they are ethically sourced. Does anyone know of any carpet companies (UK) that she'd approve of? I emailed vegsoc.org and they replied with: "Seagrass, Coir, Sisal and Jute carpets would all be OK, if a little hard on the knees. And I understand nylon carpets are not as bad as they used to be." I'd really like comfortable wool carpets if at all possible. Your help is appreciated , Edward. |
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vegetarian wool
"Edward" > wrote in message ... > Hello all, > > www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live sheep - it > can be taken from dead sheep. Also, the RSPCA state that some sheep are cut > without anaesthetic to make their skin tighter, to improve the quality of > the wool. > > My vegetarian girlfriend discovered these facts after I'd ripped up and > disposed of our old carpets. I can't lay new ones until she's sure they are > ethically sourced. Does anyone know of any carpet companies (UK) that she'd > approve of? don't know about the wool stuff, but if you have to go with synthetic, i've heard that there are a few companies making recycled/recyclable, more environmentally friendly carpets. > > I emailed vegsoc.org and they replied with: > > "Seagrass, Coir, Sisal and Jute carpets would all be OK, if a little hard > on the knees. And I understand nylon carpets are not as bad as they used to > be." > > I'd really like comfortable wool carpets if at all possible. > > Your help is appreciated , > > Edward. > > |
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vegetarian wool
"Edward" > wrote in message >.. .
> Hello all, > > www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live sheep - it > can be taken from dead sheep. You gotta be joking. Sure it can be done, but a sheep that dies from old age is as rare as rocking horse manure, a sheep that dies from sickness will most likely have a useless fleece. Also, the RSPCA state that some sheep are cut > without anaesthetic to make their skin tighter, to improve the quality of > the wool. This is a joke, right? Do you have an anaesthetic when you have a hair cut or trim your nails? Wool is like hair, DEAD TISSUE. Or do you mean "cut" as castrate? > > My vegetarian girlfriend discovered these facts after I'd ripped up and > disposed of our old carpets. I can't lay new ones until she's sure they are > ethically sourced. Does anyone know of any carpet companies (UK) that she'd > approve of? > > I emailed vegsoc.org and they replied with: > > "Seagrass, Coir, Sisal and Jute carpets would all be OK, if a little hard > on the knees. And I understand nylon carpets are not as bad as they used to > be." > > I'd really like comfortable wool carpets if at all possible. > > Your help is appreciated , > > Edward. |
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vegetarian wool
> This is a joke, right? Do you have an anaesthetic when you have a hair > cut or trim your nails? Wool is like hair, DEAD TISSUE. Or do you mean > "cut" as castrate? > Apparantly they are cut under their tails, the tails are then pulled back and stitched (without anasthetic) to make the pelt on their backs stand more upright. This produces a better quality of wool when they are sheared. >> www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live sheep - it >> can be taken from dead sheep. >You gotta be joking. Sure it can be done, but a sheep that dies from >old age is as rare as rocking horse manure, a sheep that dies from >sickness will most likely have a useless fleece. Not sure what you're going on about here. Basically, the majority of wool is a by-product of the meat industry. If farmers couldn't sell the wool as well as the meat, they'd have to charge more for the meat to make the same profit. This in turn would lead to customers being charged higher prices for meat, so less people would buy it. Therefore, buying wool makes meat cheaper. I'm not vegetarian, these are my girlfriends sentiments - I just want a wool carpet! |
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vegetarian wool
Thanks for the reply Katie, recycled could be the way forward!
"katie" > wrote in message .rogers.com... > > "Edward" > wrote in message > ... > > Hello all, > > > > www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live sheep - > it > > can be taken from dead sheep. Also, the RSPCA state that some sheep are > cut > > without anaesthetic to make their skin tighter, to improve the quality of > > the wool. > > > > My vegetarian girlfriend discovered these facts after I'd ripped up and > > disposed of our old carpets. I can't lay new ones until she's sure they > are > > ethically sourced. Does anyone know of any carpet companies (UK) that > she'd > > approve of? > > don't know about the wool stuff, but if you have to go with synthetic, i've > heard that there are a few companies making recycled/recyclable, more > environmentally friendly carpets. > > > > > I emailed vegsoc.org and they replied with: > > > > "Seagrass, Coir, Sisal and Jute carpets would all be OK, if a little hard > > on the knees. And I understand nylon carpets are not as bad as they used > to > > be." > > > > I'd really like comfortable wool carpets if at all possible. > > > > Your help is appreciated , > > > > Edward. > > > > > > |
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vegetarian wool
"Edward" > wrote
> Not sure what you're going on about here. Basically, the majority of wool is > a by-product of the meat industry. If farmers couldn't sell the wool as well > as the meat, they'd have to charge more for the meat to make the same > profit. This in turn would lead to customers being charged higher prices for > meat, so less people would buy it. Therefore, buying wool makes meat > cheaper. Are you sure you're not thinking of leather? |
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vegetarian wool
"William J. Wolfe" > wrote in message m... > "Edward" > wrote in message >.. . > > Hello all, > > > > www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live sheep - it > > can be taken from dead sheep. > > You gotta be joking. Sure it can be done, but a sheep that dies from > old age is as rare as rocking horse manure, a sheep that dies from > sickness will most likely have a useless fleece. > > Also, the RSPCA state that some sheep are cut > > without anaesthetic to make their skin tighter, to improve the quality of > > the wool. > > This is a joke, right? Do you have an anaesthetic when you have a hair > cut or trim your nails? Wool is like hair, DEAD TISSUE. Or do you mean > "cut" as castrate? > when he says 'cut', he's talking about skin, not hair : ( "On the surface, it appears that wool is a benign product because, at least theoretically, it can be obtained without harming the sheep. However, upon closer inspection, we find that the wool industry is actually very similar to the egg and dairy industries. While animals such as laying hens, dairy cows, and wool-bearing sheep are not immediately killed to procure their salable products, they suffer tremendously for years prior to their ultimate and unavoidable slaughter. Most people believe that sheep are overburdened with too much wool and therefore need to be shorn. Although today's wool-bearing sheep have thick, heavy coats, it is the result of selective breeding over thousands of years. These animals are descended from wild mountain sheep, still found in some remote regions of the world, which shed their fine woolly hair naturally. Wool provides sheep with warmth and protection from inclement weather and sunburn. Because our "modern" wool-bearers are extremely vulnerable to the elements without their wool, many sheep die of exposure shortly after being denuded. From the earliest of times there was complicity in the use of wool. Merinos, which were originally from Spain, are the most efficient wool producers. Mutton breeds, which primarily originated in England, are used predominately for meat. Cross-breeds are raised for the dual purpose of meat and wool. Nevertheless, Merinos also yield mutton and mutton breeds also yield wool. No sheep escapes either function; it is just a matter of emphasis. Essentially, all wool is a slaughterhouse product. Wool is classed as either "shorn wool," that which is shorn from sheep annually, or "pulled wool," that which is taken from sheep at the time of slaughter. Horrors abound on sheep farms, including mutilating, painful surgical procedures that are performed without anesthesia. These entail mulesing, the cutting of large strips of flesh off the hind legs to reduce fly problems, and tail docking, designed to preserve the salable condition of wool surrounding a sheep's anus, among others. A large percentage of the world's wool is produced from Merinos exported from Australia. These sheep are crammed onto ships by the tens of thousands, crowded into filthy pens, and packed so tightly they can barely move. As a result, thousands of sheep die each year from suffocation, trampling, or starvation. Sheep shearers are paid by piece rate, meaning that speed not precision guides the process. Consequently, most sheep are roughly handled, lacerated, and injured during the process. The production of wool, as with all industries that consider animals as mere commodities, is rife with cruelty and abuse. In addition, the purchase of wool supports the continual slaughter of millions of lambs and sheep each year." "In the U.S., most wool comes from either domestically raised sheep or sheep raised in Australia and New Zealand (American Sheep Industry Association). Sheep raised for wool are bred to have lambs who are sent to slaughter; sheep whose wool / lamb production has started to decline are also slaughtered (SFAP, 1998). Over 500,000 sheep and lambs in the U.S. died from predation in 1994 (USDA). In turn, sheep ranchers kill predators such as coyotes. Sheep and lambs are subjected to harsh weather conditions, with over 100,000 dying from weather-related causes in 1994 (USDA). The Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals for Australia & New Zealand (1995) allows for tail docking, castration, and surgical removal of skin folds without anesthesia. Shearing sheep causes bruising and cuts (Agriculture Western Australia, 1997)." |
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vegetarian wool
"katie" > wrote in message .rogers.com... > > "Edward" > wrote in message > ... > > Hello all, > > > > www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live sheep - > it > > can be taken from dead sheep. Also, the RSPCA state that some sheep are > cut > > without anaesthetic to make their skin tighter, to improve the quality of > > the wool. > > > > My vegetarian girlfriend discovered these facts after I'd ripped up and > > disposed of our old carpets. I can't lay new ones until she's sure they > are > > ethically sourced. Does anyone know of any carpet companies (UK) that > she'd > > approve of? You should never have ripped up your old carpets. The carpets were doing no further harm to the sheep they came from, and now you're going to have to expend more resources in order to get another one. There's no need to throw out all your leather items, or fur items, etc. either. Keep using them. It causes more resources to be saved in the long run. Using things as long as possible is ecologically sound. Throwing out all your animal-derived belongings and getting new "vegetarian" ones is wasteful and uses extra resources. Use the non-veg ones you already have until they wear out, then get other things that come from a more "ethical" source to replace them. -Rubystars |
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vegetarian wool
"Edward" > wrote in message >...
> > This is a joke, right? Do you have an anaesthetic when you have a hair > > cut or trim your nails? Wool is like hair, DEAD TISSUE. Or do you mean > > "cut" as castrate? > > > > Apparantly they are cut under their tails, the tails are then pulled back > and stitched (without anasthetic) to make the pelt on their backs stand more > upright. This produces a better quality of wool when they are sheared. Sounds like crutching, a process where a small piece of wool and skin is removed from under the sheep's arse so as to leave a wool free area to prevent dung fron sticking to wool. It has absolutely no affect on wool quality. > > > > >> www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live sheep - > it > >> can be taken from dead sheep. > > >You gotta be joking. Sure it can be done, but a sheep that dies from > >old age is as rare as rocking horse manure, a sheep that dies from > >sickness will most likely have a useless fleece. > > Not sure what you're going on about here. Basically, the majority of wool is > a by-product of the meat industry. Not in my part of the world it isn't I grew up on four million acres of Australian sheep station. We grew sheep for wool, the fine wool used for clothing. If farmers couldn't sell the wool as well > as the meat, they'd have to charge more for the meat to make the same > profit. This in turn would lead to customers being charged higher prices for > meat, so less people would buy it. Therefore, buying wool makes meat > cheaper. Depends on the wool. Australian merinos grow wool that in some cases is finer than human hair. Then there are the sheep that grow coarse wool that is only suitable for carpets. > > I'm not vegetarian, these are my girlfriends sentiments - I just want a wool > carpet! A sensible idea. Synthetic carpets are great for growing static eletetricity charges on moving humans. My preferred choice for floor is polished timber. Of course lazy housekeepers hate wood floors, there is no carpet to hide the dust. |
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vegetarian wool
"Rubystars" > wrote in message m... > > "katie" > wrote in message > .rogers.com... > > > > "Edward" > wrote in message > > ... > > > Hello all, > > > > > > www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live > sheep - > > it > > > can be taken from dead sheep. Also, the RSPCA state that some sheep are > > cut > > > without anaesthetic to make their skin tighter, to improve the quality > of > > > the wool. > > > > > > My vegetarian girlfriend discovered these facts after I'd ripped up and > > > disposed of our old carpets. I can't lay new ones until she's sure they > > are > > > ethically sourced. Does anyone know of any carpet companies (UK) that > > she'd > > > approve of? > > You should never have ripped up your old carpets. The carpets were doing no > further harm to the sheep they came from, and now you're going to have to > expend more resources in order to get another one. There's no need to throw > out all your leather items, or fur items, etc. either. Keep using them. It > causes more resources to be saved in the long run. Using things as long as > possible is ecologically sound. Throwing out all your animal-derived > belongings and getting new "vegetarian" ones is wasteful and uses extra > resources. Use the non-veg ones you already have until they wear out, then > get other things that come from a more "ethical" source to replace them. > > -Rubystars > i think the guy ripped out the carpets for decorating reasons, from the sounds of it, since he isn't a vegetarian. maybe they were old and gross, or just a horrendous 70s colour scheme. sounds like the ethics came in from the gf after they had already ripped stuff out, and then he's like well hell, what do we put in now? i vote wood. easier to clean. and looks so toasty and warm. less sneezes, too. or, in my house we have this stuff that's really easy to install yourself. it's a kind of fake wood that's so tough you can even light stuff on fire on it, and the black just rubs right off. it looks nice enough, but it'll last forever and is probably cheaper than wood, if that's an issue. btw, i totally agree with you on the using things until they're worn out thing. some folks feel so guilty that they can't bear to even have the stuff on them, or they want to make a completely fresh, fully vegan start. but the thing's already dead and on your feet or whatnot, right? better to conserve resources, since most materials aren't environmentally friendly at all (ie treated leathers or synthetics, even cottons). cause polluting hurts you and your animal friends. |
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vegetarian wool
"katie" > wrote in message s.com... [..] > i think the guy ripped out the carpets for decorating reasons, from the > sounds of it, since he isn't a vegetarian. maybe they were old and gross, > or just a horrendous 70s colour scheme. sounds like the ethics came in from > the gf after they had already ripped stuff out, and then he's like well > hell, what do we put in now? > i vote wood. easier to clean. and looks so toasty and warm. less sneezes, > too. or, in my house we have this stuff that's really easy to install > yourself. it's a kind of fake wood that's so tough you can even light stuff > on fire on it, and the black just rubs right off. it looks nice enough, but > it'll last forever and is probably cheaper than wood, if that's an issue. I hate the stuff, but more to the point, my dog hates it even more than I do. He can't run on it. That's a cert, and the most maddening thing of all is that he can't even sit on it because his backside slides away from his front legs when he tries. I'll stick with carpets for the home and wooden flooring for offices and dental practices. |
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vegetarian wool
"Edward" > wrote in message ... [..] > >> www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always > >>sheared from live sheep - it can be taken from dead > >>sheep. It can be and is taken from sheep that are yet to born, too. > >You gotta be joking. Sure it can be done, but a sheep that dies from > >old age is as rare as rocking horse manure, a sheep that dies from > >sickness will most likely have a useless fleece. > > Not sure what you're going on about here. Basically, the majority of wool is > a by-product of the meat industry. An exception to this would be karakul lamb fur; [In March 2000, HSUS investigators touring the farm near Bukhara found that pregnant ewes are in fact routinely slaughtered for these fetal pelts. Graphic videotape shot at the farm shows a pregnant ewe held down, her throat slit and her stomach slashed wide so that a worker could remove the developing fetus-the "raw material" for coats, vests, and other broadtail fashions. What's more, contrary to the industry's claims that karakul lamb fur is merely a byproduct of meat production, HSUS investigators videotaped newborn lambs displayed as "samples" of pelt colors before being sent to their death. The pelts were saved, the tiny carcasses discarded as trash.] http://www.hsus.org/ace/12046 |
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vegetarian wool
"katie" > wrote in message e.rogers.com>...
> "William J. Wolfe" > wrote in message > m... > > "Edward" > wrote in message > >.. . > > > Hello all, > > > > > > www.vegsoc.org explains that wool is not always sheared from live > sheep - it > > > can be taken from dead sheep. > > > > You gotta be joking. Sure it can be done, but a sheep that dies from > > old age is as rare as rocking horse manure, a sheep that dies from > > sickness will most likely have a useless fleece. > > > > Also, the RSPCA state that some sheep are cut > > > without anaesthetic to make their skin tighter, to improve the quality > of > > > the wool. > > > > This is a joke, right? Do you have an anaesthetic when you have a hair > > cut or trim your nails? Wool is like hair, DEAD TISSUE. Or do you mean > > "cut" as castrate? > > > when he says 'cut', he's talking about skin, not hair : ( > > "On the surface, it appears that wool is a benign product because, at least > theoretically, it can be obtained without harming the sheep. Sheep are shorn without doing any harm to sheep. Its the equivalent of a human having a hair cut. However, upon > closer inspection, we find that the wool industry is actually very similar > to the egg and dairy industries. While animals such as laying hens, dairy > cows, and wool-bearing sheep are not immediately killed to procure their > salable products, they suffer tremendously for years prior to their ultimate > and unavoidable slaughter. Sheep do not suffer, nor do dairy cows, and especially dairy cows. Stressed dairy cows do not produce milk in the same quantity as when they are unstressd. Let me give you a short lesson on animals and stress. I eat meat, ie, animal muscle tissue, white meat, fish, sheep, pig, kangaroo and deer. Right now I have five young pigs in a pen. These are feral pigs, caught after their mother was shot. They were making a war zone in a cane farm. Feral pigs can also spread disease among domestic livestock. So now there are five orphan pigs growing fat under my care. When I bought these future pork dinners home I enclosed them in a pen until for a week until they settled into their new home. They now have fresh water, shelter, food and ten acres to roam in. One pig decided to be a trouble maker, for the first four days running like a lunatic all around the pen, stesing himself crazy. I had thought he would die of shock but now he is feeding well and growing. The point is that, in spite of the animal welfare fairy tales, animals under strees do not give their best in producing milk, eggs, or growth. If I kept these pigs in cramped unclean conditions they would be susceptible to disease, they could suffer from pneumonia, they woulf have mineral and vitamin deficiencies, just as do humans who live in less than ideal conditions. > Most people believe that sheep are overburdened with too much wool and > therefore need to be shorn. Although today's wool-bearing sheep have thick, > heavy coats, it is the result of selective breeding over thousands of years. > These animals are descended from wild mountain sheep, still found in some > remote regions of the world, which shed their fine woolly hair naturally. > Wool provides sheep with warmth and protection from inclement weather and > sunburn. Because our "modern" wool-bearers are extremely vulnerable to the > elements without their wool, many sheep die of exposure shortly after being > denuded. Which can happen if sheep are shorn at the wrong time of year, also Merino sheep do not like having thich fleeces soaked with rain. > > From the earliest of times there was complicity in the use of wool. Merinos, > which were originally from Spain, are the most efficient wool producers. > Mutton breeds, which primarily originated in England, are used predominately > for meat. Cross-breeds are raised for the dual purpose of meat and wool. Cross breeds, like most compromises, do neither very well. > Nevertheless, Merinos also yield mutton and mutton breeds also yield wool. > No sheep escapes either function; it is just a matter of emphasis. > Essentially, all wool is a slaughterhouse product. Yep, and sold as lambswool, wool with tanned sheep hide. > > Wool is classed as either "shorn wool," that which is shorn from sheep > annually, or "pulled wool," that which is taken from sheep at the time of > slaughter. Horrors abound on sheep farms, including mutilating, painful > surgical procedures that are performed without anesthesia. These entail > mulesing, the cutting of large strips of flesh off the hind legs to reduce > fly problems, and tail docking, designed to preserve the salable condition > of wool surrounding a sheep's anus, among others. Removing wool bearing skin from around the sheep's bum prevents a number of life threatening problems. Sheep dung soaked into wool attracts blow flies which lay eggs in the shitty wool. There is nothing more sickening than a blow fly struck animal about to die. A large percentage of the > world's wool is produced from Merinos exported from Australia. Actually, bugger all comes from exported Australian sheep. These sheep > are crammed onto ships by the tens of thousands, crowded into filthy pens, > and packed so tightly they can barely move. As a result, thousands of sheep > die each year from suffocation, trampling, or starvation. What you have is a distorted partial truth. You really do need to make sure you have the full story here. The reality is that middle eastern countries buy Austrlian sheep for food. They are transported to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia for slaughter. Once the animals have left the Australian farm the Austraian farmer is not in any way responsible for what happens to the animals, in the same way that general Motors is not in any way responsible for the way you drive one of their vehicles after you buy it. > > Sheep shearers are paid by piece rate, meaning that speed not precision > guides the process. Actually, if you don't manage to get your act together and shear with speed AND precision, you don't shear at all. Consequently, most sheep are roughly handled, Bullsit. Rough handled animals panic, stress and are bloody hard to control. lacerated, > and injured during the process. No they aren't. You start chopping holes in stud Merino rams and you kiss godd-bye to your pay cheque and your future shearing contracts. The production of wool, as with all > industries that consider animals as mere commodities, is rife with cruelty > and abuse. In addition, the purchase of wool supports the continual > slaughter of millions of lambs and sheep each year." > > > "In the U.S., most wool comes from either domestically raised sheep or sheep > raised in Australia and New Zealand (American Sheep Industry Association). > Sheep raised for wool are bred to have lambs who are sent to slaughter; Not necessarily true. When you mate two stud Merinos you aren't going to send a potential future prise stud to the lamb chop factory. > sheep whose wool / lamb production has started to decline are also > slaughtered (SFAP, 1998). Over 500,000 sheep and lambs in the U.S. died from > predation in 1994 (USDA). In turn, sheep ranchers kill predators such as > coyotes. Sheep and lambs are subjected to harsh weather conditions, with > over 100,000 dying from weather-related causes in 1994 (USDA). You Americans need to learn how to look after valuable animals. The Model > Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals for Australia & New Zealand > (1995) allows for tail docking, castration, and surgical removal of skin > folds without anesthesia. All farm animals are denutted without anaesthesia. If you feel the need to feel shock at the tohought of this, remember how you gently handled yourself the last time you did yourself an injury. Pain is a way of telling you to be gentle with yourself. Shearing sheep causes bruising and cuts > (Agriculture Western Australia, 1997)." yeah, and sometimes the sheep leave teh shed with a few blade cuts as well. Bruised shearers learn to avoid flying hooves. |
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vegetarian wool
"katie" > wrote in message <snip> > i think the guy ripped out the carpets for decorating reasons, from the > sounds of it, since he isn't a vegetarian. maybe they were old and gross, > or just a horrendous 70s colour scheme. sounds like the ethics came in from > the gf after they had already ripped stuff out, and then he's like well > hell, what do we put in now? Good question. > i vote wood. easier to clean. and looks so toasty and warm. less sneezes, > too. Well even if they had a wooden floor, they'd probably want to put a throw rug down. Anyway, isn't wood even harder on animals? There are probably some exceptions and wood that comes from pre-planted tree farms that were there for that very purpose, but deforestation isn't really a picnic for wildlife either. I hate to sound like one of those people who are always talking about CDs, but well, I think in this case it might apply. >or, in my house we have this stuff that's really easy to install > yourself. it's a kind of fake wood that's so tough you can even light stuff > on fire on it, and the black just rubs right off. it looks nice enough, but > it'll last forever and is probably cheaper than wood, if that's an issue. If it's long lasting that would be great. > btw, i totally agree with you on the using things until they're worn out > thing. some folks feel so guilty that they can't bear to even have the > stuff on them, or they want to make a completely fresh, fully vegan start. > but the thing's already dead and on your feet or whatnot, right? Yeah exactly. If they really can't bear it, they should at least donate the leather clothes and stuff to someone who needs clothes so that they can be recycled. >better to > conserve resources, since most materials aren't environmentally friendly at > all (ie treated leathers or synthetics, even cottons). cause polluting > hurts you and your animal friends. True. -Rubystars |
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vegetarian wool
"Rubystars" > wrote in message . com... > > "katie" > wrote in message > <snip> > > i think the guy ripped out the carpets for decorating reasons, from the > > sounds of it, since he isn't a vegetarian. maybe they were old and gross, > > or just a horrendous 70s colour scheme. sounds like the ethics came in > from > > the gf after they had already ripped stuff out, and then he's like well > > hell, what do we put in now? > > Good question. > > > i vote wood. easier to clean. and looks so toasty and warm. less > sneezes, > > too. > > Well even if they had a wooden floor, they'd probably want to put a throw > rug down. Anyway, isn't wood even harder on animals? > > There are probably some exceptions and wood that comes from pre-planted tree > farms that were there for that very purpose, but deforestation isn't really > a picnic for wildlife either. I hate to sound like one of those people who > are always talking about CDs, but well, I think in this case it might apply. > this is one of those things that i just don't know. i mean, there aren't exactly comparative CD tables around. sheep are raised in pastures, right? weren't pastures forests once, that were cut down? cause i don't think that nature usually comes in tree-fenced square patches. although, i don't know how they do things with sheep, so maybe the environment over there was in that stage of growth. who knows? not me. clearcutting is definitely bad, in lots of ways. when i was hiking in the bc mountains, i looked out onto the scenery, and was horrified to see massive clearcut patches. it was so sad. i think the best way to go is selective forestry, that only takes certain trees instead of taking everything. but as a consumer, how can you tell? often, it's hard to find any kind of product with how it's made listed. hopefully, by the time that i have a house to do flooring in, things will be more clear/available in that respect. cause carpet isn't even an option for me, unless i want to live with an ever-sneeze. looks like tile/laminate/wood/wood-imitations are what i've got to choose from. > > >or, in my house we have this stuff that's really easy to install > > yourself. it's a kind of fake wood that's so tough you can even light > stuff > > on fire on it, and the black just rubs right off. it looks nice enough, > but > > it'll last forever and is probably cheaper than wood, if that's an issue. > > If it's long lasting that would be great. > > > btw, i totally agree with you on the using things until they're worn out > > thing. some folks feel so guilty that they can't bear to even have the > > stuff on them, or they want to make a completely fresh, fully vegan start. > > but the thing's already dead and on your feet or whatnot, right? > > Yeah exactly. If they really can't bear it, they should at least donate the > leather clothes and stuff to someone who needs clothes so that they can be > recycled. for sure. and you get flack when you wear leather shoes as a vegan. but i'm not about to ditch perfectly useful shoes just so i 'feel better' and avoid being challenged so much. i mean, you can donate jackets and stuff, but most folks won't buy used shoes, i think, since they aren't usually too good for your feet (when they've molded to someone else's) > > >better to > > conserve resources, since most materials aren't environmentally friendly > at > > all (ie treated leathers or synthetics, even cottons). cause polluting > > hurts you and your animal friends. > > True. > > -Rubystars > > |
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"katie" > wrote in message <snip> > this is one of those things that i just don't know. i mean, there aren't > exactly comparative CD tables around. sheep are raised in pastures, right? > weren't pastures forests once, that were cut down? cause i don't think that > nature usually comes in tree-fenced square patches. although, i don't know > how they do things with sheep, so maybe the environment over there was in > that stage of growth. who knows? not me. clearcutting is definitely bad, > in lots of ways. when i was hiking in the bc mountains, i looked out onto > the scenery, and was horrified to see massive clearcut patches. it was so > sad. i think the best way to go is selective forestry, that only takes > certain trees instead of taking everything. but as a consumer, how can you > tell? often, it's hard to find any kind of product with how it's made > listed. hopefully, by the time that i have a house to do flooring in, > things will be more clear/available in that respect. cause carpet isn't > even an option for me, unless i want to live with an ever-sneeze. looks > like tile/laminate/wood/wood-imitations are what i've got to choose from. Yeah I know what you mean. I don't have a problem with buying wood, but I wouldn't buy redwood, or wood that I *knew* came from clear cutting. Most of the time it's hard to tell, and I don't worry about it. Why stress over the small stuff anyway? <snip> > for sure. and you get flack when you wear leather shoes as a vegan. but > i'm not about to ditch perfectly useful shoes just so i 'feel better' and > avoid being challenged so much. i mean, you can donate jackets and stuff, > but most folks won't buy used shoes, i think, since they aren't usually too > good for your feet (when they've molded to someone else's) Good point about the shoes. *L* -Rubystars |
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"katie" > wrote in message
e.rogers.com... > > "Rubystars" > wrote in message > . com... > > > > "katie" > wrote in message > > <snip> > > > i think the guy ripped out the carpets for decorating reasons, from the > > > sounds of it, since he isn't a vegetarian. maybe they were old and gross, > > > or just a horrendous 70s colour scheme. sounds like the ethics came in from > > > the gf after they had already ripped stuff out, and then he's like well > > > hell, what do we put in now? > > > > Good question. > > > > > i vote wood. easier to clean. and looks so toasty and warm. less sneezes, > > > too. > > > > Well even if they had a wooden floor, they'd probably want to put a throw > > rug down. Anyway, isn't wood even harder on animals? > > > > There are probably some exceptions and wood that comes from pre-planted tree > > farms that were there for that very purpose, but deforestation isn't really > > a picnic for wildlife either. I hate to sound like one of those people who > > are always talking about CDs, but well, I think in this case it might apply. > > > this is one of those things that i just don't know. i mean, there aren't > exactly comparative CD tables around. sheep are raised in pastures, right? > weren't pastures forests once, that were cut down? cause i don't think that > nature usually comes in tree-fenced square patches. although, i don't know > how they do things with sheep, so maybe the environment over there was in > that stage of growth. who knows? not me. clearcutting is definitely bad, > in lots of ways. when i was hiking in the bc mountains, i looked out onto > the scenery, and was horrified to see massive clearcut patches. it was so > sad. i think the best way to go is selective forestry, that only takes > certain trees instead of taking everything. but as a consumer, how can you > tell? often, it's hard to find any kind of product with how it's made > listed. hopefully, by the time that i have a house to do flooring in, > things will be more clear/available in that respect. cause carpet isn't > even an option for me, unless i want to live with an ever-sneeze. looks > like tile/laminate/wood/wood-imitations are what i've got to choose from. > > > > > >or, in my house we have this stuff that's really easy to install > > > yourself. it's a kind of fake wood that's so tough you can even light stuff > > > on fire on it, and the black just rubs right off. it looks nice enough, but > > > it'll last forever and is probably cheaper than wood, if that's an issue. > > > > If it's long lasting that would be great. Use rugs or carpets made from Hemp? http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&ie...emp+rugs&meta= The Weed That Could Change The World http://rense.com/general49/could.htm See also; http://rense.com/Datapages/hempdat.htm |
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katie wrote:
<...> > this is one of those things that i just don't know. i mean, there aren't > exactly comparative CD tables around. sheep are raised in pastures, right? Yep. > weren't pastures forests once, that were cut down? Not necessarily. Most pasture land is in the prairies, and prairieland is characterized by abundance of grasses. Prairies contain stands of trees, but not nearly in the density (or types) found in forests. > cause i don't think that > nature usually comes in tree-fenced square patches. although, i don't know > how they do things with sheep, so maybe the environment over there was in > that stage of growth. who knows? not me. On that point, we agree. > clearcutting is definitely bad, It may be unaesthetic, but wood is a renewable resource. > in lots of ways. when i was hiking in the bc mountains, i looked out onto > the scenery, and was horrified to see massive clearcut patches. it was so > sad. i think the best way to go is selective forestry, that only takes > certain trees instead of taking everything. Most timber companies engage in such practices in old-growth forests. > but as a consumer, how can you tell? Companies make a point of marketing products made of sustainable products, like selectively forested timber or even recycled wood. > often, it's hard to find any kind of product with how it's made > listed. Not really. > hopefully, by the time that i have a house to do flooring in, > things will be more clear/available in that respect. cause carpet isn't > even an option for me, unless i want to live with an ever-sneeze. looks > like tile/laminate/wood/wood-imitations are what i've got to choose from. You can use sustainable woods for flooring. Several flooring companies specialize in dismantling old buildings (and homes) to salvage timbers than can be milled into flooring or other products. Also, bamboo flooring is a very sustainable product with a pleasant aesthetic. Bamboo grows quickly and prolificly. It's a grass, after all, not a tree. It's the only timber product *I* would buy from third-world countries. http://www.bamboo-flooring.com/index.asp http://www.teragren.com/teragren.asp http://www.woodfloorsonline.com/styl...ds/bamboo.html <...> > for sure. and you get flack when you wear leather shoes as a vegan. but > i'm not about to ditch perfectly useful shoes just so i 'feel better' and > avoid being challenged so much. i mean, you can donate jackets and stuff, > but most folks won't buy used shoes, i think, since they aren't usually too > good for your feet (when they've molded to someone else's) Leather is one of the most bogus issues in veganism. Cows don't need it after they die regardless of how they die. Don't let other people judge you in your food or attire. And don't judge others on such frivolous measures, either. <...> |
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Rubystars wrote:
<...> > Yeah I know what you mean. I don't have a problem with buying wood, but I > wouldn't buy redwood, Much of the redwood sold today is from selective timbering, second-growth, and salvaging of fallen trees. Salvaged redwood is widely available. http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/produ...ycledsust.html <...> |
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"usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > Rubystars wrote: > <...> > > Yeah I know what you mean. I don't have a problem with buying wood, but I > > wouldn't buy redwood, > > Much of the redwood sold today is from selective timbering, second-growth, and > salvaging of fallen trees. Salvaged redwood is widely available. > > http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/produ...ycledsust.html Great! Still wouldn't want to take a chance though unless I knew the source. -Rubystars |
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thanks for the links and info. never thought about bamboo, i'll check it
out. it'll be a long time before i am able to build my own eco-house, but in the meantime, i'm trying to learn all i can about sustainable building materials. i'm putting together a file with all the cool stuff i've come across. stuff like straw bale, recycled shingles, anaerobic digesters, greywater, composting toilets, solar & wind stuff, etc. love this stuff! |
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Rubystars wrote:
>>>Yeah I know what you mean. I don't have a problem with buying wood, but > I >>>wouldn't buy redwood, >> >>Much of the redwood sold today is from selective timbering, second-growth, > and >>salvaging of fallen trees. Salvaged redwood is widely available. >> >>http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/produ...ycledsust.html > > Great! Still wouldn't want to take a chance though unless I knew the source. It's a pretty safe assumption that you're not buying clear-cut old-growth redwood. Most old-growth redwood is selectively harvested or even taken from trees which have already fallen. Most domestic redwood sold today is second-growth. The last link is from a SF Chronicle article (by their environmental reporter) on a sustainable redwood harvesting symposium. Not enough detail is given in that article about redwood's substitutes, namely South American hardwoods (e.g., teak and mahogany), which are much closer to being endangered than redwood. You avoid one choice, but are you making a "worse" choice by purchasing teak or mahogany? http://www.cfbf.com/issues/earthwise/forest.htm http://www.calredwood.org/ref/pdf/using.pdf http://snipurl.com/5sf4 |
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katie wrote:
> thanks for the links and info. No problem, girly girl. > never thought about bamboo, i'll check it > out. It looks like any other wooden flooring. > it'll be a long time before i am able to build my own eco-house, Don't put it off for "a long time." Building your own home doesn't cost that much, especially if you buy stuff as you go along. The worst thing you can do, imo, is to wait until you qualify for a mortgage (French for "death pledge"). Do it on the fly and you'll never need to fork over $400k for a $100k house. > but > in the meantime, i'm trying to learn all i can about sustainable building > materials. i'm putting together a file with all the cool stuff i've come > across. Good deal. > stuff like straw bale, recycled shingles, anaerobic digesters, > greywater, composting toilets, solar & wind stuff, etc. love this stuff! I'm not a big fan of straw bale houses, mainly from the point of trying to get zoning approval, finding an architect, getting insurance, figuring out a reasonable assessment for taxes, resale value, etc. I've heard both good and bad from people who've built with it. |
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"usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > Rubystars wrote: > >>>Yeah I know what you mean. I don't have a problem with buying wood, but > > I > >>>wouldn't buy redwood, > >> > >>Much of the redwood sold today is from selective timbering, second-growth, > > and > >>salvaging of fallen trees. Salvaged redwood is widely available. > >> > >>http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/produ...ycledsust.html > > > > Great! Still wouldn't want to take a chance though unless I knew the source. > > It's a pretty safe assumption that you're not buying clear-cut old-growth > redwood. Most old-growth redwood is selectively harvested or even taken from > trees which have already fallen. Most domestic redwood sold today is > second-growth. The last link is from a SF Chronicle article (by their > environmental reporter) on a sustainable redwood harvesting symposium. Not > enough detail is given in that article about redwood's substitutes, namely South > American hardwoods (e.g., teak and mahogany), which are much closer to being > endangered than redwood. You avoid one choice, but are you making a "worse" > choice by purchasing teak or mahogany? > > http://www.cfbf.com/issues/earthwise/forest.htm > http://www.calredwood.org/ref/pdf/using.pdf > http://snipurl.com/5sf4 I actually haven't bought a lot of wood things anyway, and the things I did buy, I have no idea what they are, because they were second hand anyway, but I'm thinking about the future when I'll have a house to furnish. -Rubystars |
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"usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > katie wrote: > > thanks for the links and info. > > No problem, girly girl. > > > never thought about bamboo, i'll check it > > out. > > It looks like any other wooden flooring. > > > it'll be a long time before i am able to build my own eco-house, > > Don't put it off for "a long time." Building your own home doesn't cost that > much, especially if you buy stuff as you go along. The worst thing you can do, > imo, is to wait until you qualify for a mortgage (French for "death pledge"). Do > it on the fly and you'll never need to fork over $400k for a $100k house. > not really sure how to approach this one. building a house is a big deal. i live in ottawa, so just finding land wouldn't be cheap, and i'd have to find it near good public transit (one of my goals is to never own a car, although if i had to, i'd try to retrofit one to take biodiesel, or something). you can get pretty close to the city's edge with the rapid transit, so maybe i could actually find something that i wouldn't have to sell my favourite organs to finance. my plan has always been to avoid a mortgage and build in a 'pay as you go' style, although i'd have to rent until i had enough saved to buy a crappy fixerupper, and rent seems like money down the drain. have to figure that stuff out. for now, my earnings all pour into tuition. still a complicated undertaking though, financing and building aside. i mean, i'm just 21. anchoring myself to a house and a city so young...well, who knows where i'll want to live or work? throwing a s.o.'s life into the mix doesn't make the decision any easier. building a house with someone who i don't even know that i'll 'end up with' is a bit scary. point is that although i know this stuff is probably way less of a big deal than everyone makes it out to be, it's a lot to think about, and i feel a bit hesitant about it all. > > but > > in the meantime, i'm trying to learn all i can about sustainable building > > materials. i'm putting together a file with all the cool stuff i've come > > across. > > Good deal. > > > stuff like straw bale, recycled shingles, anaerobic digesters, > > greywater, composting toilets, solar & wind stuff, etc. love this stuff! > > I'm not a big fan of straw bale houses, mainly from the point of trying to get > zoning approval, finding an architect, getting insurance, figuring out a > reasonable assessment for taxes, resale value, etc. I've heard both good and bad > from people who've built with it. > i think it depends where you live. some places are really receptive to new building ideas, others are reluctant to give approval on anything that doesn't fit the status quo. the zoning folks here are skeptical, but not entirely rigid, from the sounds of it. a guy recently got reluctant approval to build a house with a styrofoam foundation. everyone thought it sounded nuts, but it's a great idea, one i'd look into as well. we do have some cool environmental-housing orgs here, and one of them gives workshops on straw bale housing. you pay $375 to spend a whole weekend building a straw bale house with a team, from start to finish, including doing all the wiring and stuff, so you can figure out how it all works. seems pretty cool, some good hands-on learning. so i know that i could find an architect, since there is another org around here that does the enviro-housing. insurance might not be a problem if you can show them how straw bale houses perform better on fire tests than standard houses. i think most folks think of straw bale and think fire and rot. and the tax system is so ****ed up here that people's houses are being assessed at 2 million higher than what they paid for them (one example...ugh, we've had tons of them pouring in from ****ed off residents - i work at city hall). so i don't know how the assessment would go. it's more of a neighbourhood value average, instead of assessing each individual house...so i'd probably be just as screwed as everyone else () |
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katie wrote:
<...> > not really sure how to approach this one. building a house is a big deal. So is moving all your stuff, whether it's to another house or an apartment. > i live in ottawa, You poor thing. Consider moving out west. It's prettier and the peeps are nicer. > so just finding land wouldn't be cheap, and i'd have to > find it near good public transit (one of my goals is to never own a car, > although if i had to, i'd try to retrofit one to take biodiesel, or > something). If you build your own or repair a slum, you'll need a truck to carry stuff around. Any diesel engine will burn "biodiesel" (i.e., vegetable oils which have had the glycerides removed) without any retrofitting. You won't want to use a new car/truck since running "biodiesel" can void the warranty. > you can get pretty close to the city's edge with the rapid > transit, Remember, what is today's "city's edge" was the boondocks 10-15 years ago. Public transportation will go to the boondocks as people continue to flock out of the central city. Look down the road, now at the status quo. > so maybe i could actually find something that i wouldn't have to > sell my favourite organs to finance. Better to pay as you go than to finance anything. It requires patience and persistence, which seem harder until you figure out how hard it is to pay ~20% interest to credit card companies. > my plan has always been to avoid a > mortgage and build in a 'pay as you go' style, Good deal. > although i'd have to rent > until i had enough saved to buy a crappy fixerupper, and rent seems like > money down the drain. have to figure that stuff out. It isn't always money down the drain. When you take out a mortgage, you're paying back interest first anyway -- so forget about building equity off the bat. I just ran an amortization schedule for $100,000 over 30 years at 5.25%. The dent made on the first payment isn't even $115 on a $552.20 payment. Figure out how much that money costs you over the life of the mortgage: you'll tie up close to $200,000 for a $100,000 house. How long would it take you to save the $100,000 while you're renting and earning interest on your savings? Less than 30 years? > for now, my earnings all pour into tuition. Best investment you'll ever make. I hope you have a real-world major instead of undertaking some academic frivolity that won't provide much in the way of marketable skills. > still a complicated undertaking though, financing > and building aside. i mean, i'm just 21. The sooner you start making good, firm decisions, the sooner your money will work for you. > anchoring myself to a house and a > city so young...well, who knows where i'll want to live or work? throwing a > s.o.'s life into the mix doesn't make the decision any easier. building a > house with someone who i don't even know that i'll 'end up with' is a bit > scary. point is that although i know this stuff is probably way less of a > big deal than everyone makes it out to be, it's a lot to think about, and i > feel a bit hesitant about it all. You have some time to figure out what you're doing with your life. <...> > i think it depends where you live. some places are really receptive to new > building ideas, We have one of the biggest green builder programs in the US. Straw is still a bit of a novelty and eccentric. We have a lot of homes and buildings going up with alternatives. Some of those are bales. Most, though, rely on more traditional products or products which aren't quite as eccentric as bales. Some of the nicest results I've seen locally involve the use of Rastra, which is a recycled plastic product which is used to form concrete into walls (flat, curved, it doesn't matter). > others are reluctant to give approval on anything that > doesn't fit the status quo. Which can really bring down the resale value unless you find someone who appreciates what you have. > the zoning folks here are skeptical, but not > entirely rigid, from the sounds of it. a guy recently got reluctant > approval to build a house with a styrofoam foundation. everyone thought it > sounded nuts, but it's a great idea, one i'd look into as well. we do have > some cool environmental-housing orgs here, and one of them gives workshops > on straw bale housing. you pay $375 to spend a whole weekend building a > straw bale house with a team, from start to finish, including doing all the > wiring and stuff, so you can figure out how it all works. seems pretty > cool, some good hands-on learning. Hmmm... our workshops are a lot less than that. I attended one a few years ago. It was $20 AND that included meals (supper night before, breakfast, lunch, dinner on day of build). > so i know that i could find an > architect, since there is another org around here that does the > enviro-housing. insurance might not be a problem if you can show them how > straw bale houses perform better on fire tests than standard houses. Underwriters are still picky about taking on the risk, especially when dealing with valuations far in excess of replacement costs. > i > think most folks think of straw bale and think fire and rot. and the tax > system is so ****ed up here that people's houses are being assessed at 2 > million higher than what they paid for them (one example...ugh, we've had > tons of them pouring in from ****ed off residents - i work at city hall). I live in an area where our property values have skyrocketed over the last decade. We're trying to revamp the property tax structure here in Texas right now, but I doubt we'll make much of a dent anytime soon. > so i don't know how the assessment would go. it's more of a neighbourhood > value average, instead of assessing each individual house...so i'd probably > be just as screwed as everyone else () Uh huh. Or you could move out west where land is cheaper and taxes are a little lower. |
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"usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > katie wrote: > <...> > > not really sure how to approach this one. building a house is a big deal. > > So is moving all your stuff, whether it's to another house or an apartment. > > > i live in ottawa, > > You poor thing. Consider moving out west. It's prettier and the peeps are nicer. i've been dreaming about that since i started going to boot camp out there on the island every summer as a teenager. i was hooked from day one. it's so beautiful, the air is clean (at least where i was) and all of my allergies were gone. i can't stand ottawa environmentally. it's great from an employment standpoint, and the public transit is pretty great...but the winters are awful, all freezing and bleak and snow up to my eyeballs...and the summers are smothering, smog-coated humidity. i can only really be outside in the spring and fall. so that sucks. but i've heard two things about bc, one that it's way to expensive to live there (unless you're up in the north-mainland), and that young folks can't find a job, unless they want to go service industry. i'd stay in ottawa because my family is in this province, and because at least i know i can find good work (being such a government centre, especially)...but i'm still thinking about it. the west coast just latches onto that special place in your chest that gives off the warm fuzzies() > > > so just finding land wouldn't be cheap, and i'd have to > > find it near good public transit (one of my goals is to never own a car, > > although if i had to, i'd try to retrofit one to take biodiesel, or > > something). > > If you build your own or repair a slum, you'll need a truck to carry stuff > around. Any diesel engine will burn "biodiesel" (i.e., vegetable oils which have > had the glycerides removed) without any retrofitting. You won't want to use a > new car/truck since running "biodiesel" can void the warranty. > new. ha! like i'd ever be able to afford a 'new' set o' wheels. besides, cars seem like a sucking money pit, unless you truly need them. i don't know...i could get someone with a truck to haul the stuff away every so often, fuel the local economy and whatnot. > > you can get pretty close to the city's edge with the rapid > > transit, > > Remember, what is today's "city's edge" was the boondocks 10-15 years ago. > Public transportation will go to the boondocks as people continue to flock out > of the central city. Look down the road, now at the status quo. that's part of my plan, since i have access to the city's future plans/proposals for light rail. i could go far enough out to be somewhere affordable, but that would have a train around the corner in a decade or so. > > > so maybe i could actually find something that i wouldn't have to > > sell my favourite organs to finance. > > Better to pay as you go than to finance anything. It requires patience and > persistence, which seem harder until you figure out how hard it is to pay ~20% > interest to credit card companies. for sure. holding a new credit card in my hand with what seemed like a high limit to me gave me this rush of possibility. it was like pure evil. at that moment, their power became clear. i always pay off fully each month. > > > my plan has always been to avoid a > > mortgage and build in a 'pay as you go' style, > > Good deal. > > > although i'd have to rent > > until i had enough saved to buy a crappy fixerupper, and rent seems like > > money down the drain. have to figure that stuff out. > > It isn't always money down the drain. When you take out a mortgage, you're > paying back interest first anyway -- so forget about building equity off the > bat. I just ran an amortization schedule for $100,000 over 30 years at 5.25%. > The dent made on the first payment isn't even $115 on a $552.20 payment. Figure > out how much that money costs you over the life of the mortgage: you'll tie up > close to $200,000 for a $100,000 house. How long would it take you to save the > $100,000 while you're renting and earning interest on your savings? Less than 30 > years? > guess it depends on what kind of job i can snag, and how much more education i get (and pay for) > > for now, my earnings all pour into tuition. > > Best investment you'll ever make. I hope you have a real-world major instead of > undertaking some academic frivolity that won't provide much in the way of > marketable skills. ehhhh...at this point, i look at almost all majors as being useless to do anything except get a further degree. i'm a geography major (with an unrecognized human rights combined major). with that, all i can really do is go to teachers' college(eww kids) or get a masters degree. once i have a masters degree, then i'll be employable, especially by the government, which doesn't seem to care what your degree is in, so long as you have one. and i feel that the human rights stuff will help to round out my degree, so that i could be more employable by certain NGOs or government agencies. or who knows, i could even go to med school. only 3 or 4 required science credits to get in, and i have two of them...just not the $60-80thou to go with em.' point is, for the most part, undergrad degrees don't matter (anymore, what with this raising the bar stuff), you've just got to have them as a stepping stone. > > > still a complicated undertaking though, financing > > and building aside. i mean, i'm just 21. > > The sooner you start making good, firm decisions, the sooner your money will > work for you. > > > anchoring myself to a house and a > > city so young...well, who knows where i'll want to live or work? throwing a > > s.o.'s life into the mix doesn't make the decision any easier. building a > > house with someone who i don't even know that i'll 'end up with' is a bit > > scary. point is that although i know this stuff is probably way less of a > > big deal than everyone makes it out to be, it's a lot to think about, and i > > feel a bit hesitant about it all. > > You have some time to figure out what you're doing with your life. > let's hope i can figure it out. hell, i couldn't even pick an icecream flavour before my options got cut back to the available soy delicious ones. thank goodness for simplicity! > <...> > > i think it depends where you live. some places are really receptive to new > > building ideas, > > We have one of the biggest green builder programs in the US. Straw is still a > bit of a novelty and eccentric. We have a lot of homes and buildings going up > with alternatives. Some of those are bales. Most, though, rely on more > traditional products or products which aren't quite as eccentric as bales. Some > of the nicest results I've seen locally involve the use of Rastra, which is a > recycled plastic product which is used to form concrete into walls (flat, > curved, it doesn't matter). > that sounds neato. maybe i'll look into it, and add it to my housing file. you know, i could make like that bc family and just build a yurt. that sounds affordable. although i'd probably be eaten by cougars. > > others are reluctant to give approval on anything that > > doesn't fit the status quo. > > Which can really bring down the resale value unless you find someone who > appreciates what you have. ehh...the straw bale houses i've seen out there look totally normal. and if you tell them why it and all the other enviro-perks are good, and mention all the cash they'll save in energy costs, i think they'd go for it. besides, there should be enough environmentally-conscious openminded folks around by that time to have one want the house for it's unique qualities. or maybe i'll just stay there until my strategic, old-age heroin suicide with my husband() > > > the zoning folks here are skeptical, but not > > entirely rigid, from the sounds of it. a guy recently got reluctant > > approval to build a house with a styrofoam foundation. everyone thought it > > sounded nuts, but it's a great idea, one i'd look into as well. we do have > > some cool environmental-housing orgs here, and one of them gives workshops > > on straw bale housing. you pay $375 to spend a whole weekend building a > > straw bale house with a team, from start to finish, including doing all the > > wiring and stuff, so you can figure out how it all works. seems pretty > > cool, some good hands-on learning. > > Hmmm... our workshops are a lot less than that. I attended one a few years ago. > It was $20 AND that included meals (supper night before, breakfast, lunch, > dinner on day of build). yeah, this one includes meals too, i think for the whole 3-someodd days. do you actually get to fully participate in everything for the 20$? i wish they had better student rates. that org puts on great stuff, but it's so damned expensive! > > > so i know that i could find an > > architect, since there is another org around here that does the > > enviro-housing. insurance might not be a problem if you can show them how > > straw bale houses perform better on fire tests than standard houses. > > Underwriters are still picky about taking on the risk, especially when dealing > with valuations far in excess of replacement costs. meh...i'll figure something out. > > > i > > think most folks think of straw bale and think fire and rot. and the tax > > system is so ****ed up here that people's houses are being assessed at 2 > > million higher than what they paid for them (one example...ugh, we've had > > tons of them pouring in from ****ed off residents - i work at city hall). > > I live in an area where our property values have skyrocketed over the last > decade. We're trying to revamp the property tax structure here in Texas right > now, but I doubt we'll make much of a dent anytime soon. same process trying to get started here too. seems like a whole lotta talk, and not much action. > > > so i don't know how the assessment would go. it's more of a neighbourhood > > value average, instead of assessing each individual house...so i'd probably > > be just as screwed as everyone else () > > Uh huh. Or you could move out west where land is cheaper and taxes are a little > lower. > i can dream. who knows, maybe i will revert to my plan to skip town for bc after school... |
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vegetarian wool
katie wrote:
<...> >>You poor thing. Consider moving out west. It's prettier and the peeps are > nicer. > > i've been dreaming about that since i started going to boot camp out there > on the island every summer as a teenager. i was hooked from day one. it's > so beautiful, the air is clean (at least where i was) and all of my > allergies were gone. At least during the season you were there. Odds are pretty good that if you go another time of year, you'll find something else to which you're allergic. That happened to me when I moved here. > i can't stand ottawa environmentally. it's great from > an employment standpoint, and the public transit is pretty great...but the > winters are awful, all freezing and bleak and snow up to my eyeballs... It doesn't snow as much in BC, at least along the coast. > and > the summers are smothering, smog-coated humidity. i can only really be > outside in the spring and fall. so that sucks. but i've heard two things > about bc, one that it's way to expensive to live there (unless you're up in > the north-mainland), Try Alberta. > and that young folks can't find a job, unless they want > to go service industry. i'd stay in ottawa because my family is in this > province, and because at least i know i can find good work (being such a > government centre, especially)...but i'm still thinking about it. the west > coast just latches onto that special place in your chest that gives off the > warm fuzzies() Only if you like beautiful mountains, clean air, pretty ocean views, nice people, etc. Ick. (jk) <...> > new. ha! like i'd ever be able to afford a 'new' set o' wheels. besides, > cars seem like a sucking money pit, unless you truly need them. Cars are depreciating assets, but necessary if you're building or remodeling. > i don't > know...i could get someone with a truck to haul the stuff away every so > often, fuel the local economy and whatnot. Don't overlook the convenience factor, especially when relying on others (paid or not) to remove stuff or deliver. You'll become more realistic after you've lost an entire day being a hostage to other people's schedules. <...> > for sure. holding a new credit card in my hand with what seemed like a high > limit to me gave me this rush of possibility. it was like pure evil. at > that moment, their power became clear. i always pay off fully each month. Good girl. Don't ever slip up on that. <...> > ehhhh...at this point, i look at almost all majors as being useless to do > anything except get a further degree. i'm a geography major (with an > unrecognized human rights combined major). with that, all i can really do > is go to teachers' college(eww kids) or get a masters degree. Don't knock teaching, especially if you want to get a master's at someone else's expense. We have programs here that pay for graduate education for teachers. The trade-off is teaching while you're in the program. Big deal. <...> > that sounds neato. maybe i'll look into it, and add it to my housing file. > you know, i could make like that bc family and just build a yurt. that > sounds affordable. although i'd probably be eaten by cougars. http://rastra.com/ The following building down here was made from Rastra, and they also have bale buildings onsite. http://www.oneworldtheatre.org/venue.html >>>others are reluctant to give approval on anything that >>>doesn't fit the status quo. >> >>Which can really bring down the resale value unless you find someone who >>appreciates what you have. > > ehh...the straw bale houses i've seen out there look totally normal. Looks don't always convince buyers, especially when you're asking them to pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars. > and if > you tell them why it and all the other enviro-perks are good, and mention > all the cash they'll save in energy costs, i think they'd go for it. I know of one alternative house that was sold only to be removed from the property because the new owner didn't like it, wasn't impressed with the alternative construction, etc. The sellers had to absorb the cost of the loss of the house during the sale, and ended up losing all their equity (money and sweat since they built the house). > besides, there should be enough environmentally-conscious openminded folks > around by that time to have one want the house for it's unique qualities. You can always hope. > or maybe i'll just stay there until my strategic, old-age heroin suicide > with my husband() Perish the thought. <...> >>Hmmm... our workshops are a lot less than that. I attended one a few years > ago. >>It was $20 AND that included meals (supper night before, breakfast, lunch, >>dinner on day of build). > > yeah, this one includes meals too, i think for the whole 3-someodd days. do > you actually get to fully participate in everything for the 20$? Yes. You pay to perform labor to build another person's house. > i wish > they had better student rates. that org puts on great stuff, but it's so > damned expensive! Look around before you fork over money. You may be able to learn while you help build a SB house or church in Mexico, or some other developing country. Yeah, you'd have to spring for a ticket, but you could combine it with a vacation. <...> > i can dream. who knows, maybe i will revert to my plan to skip town for bc > after school... You wouldn't be the first or last person to do that. |
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