http://ecologos.org/times.htm

Laurie
--
Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:
http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
news:alt.food.vegan.science

On Jul 11, 2:53*pm, Laurie > wrote:
> http://ecologos.org/times.htm
>
> * * * * Laurie
> --
> Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
> news:alt.food.vegan.science



crap, again.



rating your own postings i see.

white, fat and fugly wrote:

> crap, again.
Anyone else observe that these illiterate meatarian propagandists do
not have the ability to write a coherent sentence that expresses any
concept?
Their most popular "debating" techniques are lying, insults,
name-calling, and
generally expressing their profound lack of any education.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm

> "white, fat and fugly"
..., you forgot terminally stupid.

Laurie

--
Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:
http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
news:alt.food.vegan.science

On Jul 15, 7:42*am, Laurie > wrote:
> white, fat and fugly wrote:
>
> > crap, *again.
>
> * * * * Anyone else observe that these illiterate meatarian propagandists do
> not have the ability to write a coherent sentence that expresses any
> concept?
> * * * * Their most popular "debating" techniques are lying, insults,
> name-calling, and
> generally expressing their profound lack of any education.
> * * * *http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm
>
> *> "white, fat and fugly"
> * * * * ..., you forgot terminally stupid.
>
> * * * * Laurie
>
> --
> Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
> news:alt.food.vegan.science




nice excuse... but since you're too ****in' stupid to realize i'm a
vegan.....



that comes from inept potential that you were born with.


why is that?


oh, that's the ****tarded syndrom. nice try on the meat
excuse... but you fail again.

white, fat and fugly wrote:

>>> crap, again.
> nice excuse... but since you're too ****in' stupid to realize
> i'm a vegan.....

I am not a mind reader, neither are you.
Regardless of your diet still do not have the ability to write a
coherent sentence; you have retained your meatarian ignorance,
arrogance, and compulsive vulgarity.
But, you are a great example of the fact that a vegan diet does NOT
FORCE one to be educated, rational, polite, or civil.

Laurie
--
Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:
http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
news:alt.food.vegan.science

On Jul 15, 7:42 am, Laurie > wrote:
> white, fat and fugly wrote:
>
> > crap, again.
>
> Anyone else observe that these illiterate meatarian propagandists do
> not have the ability to write a coherent sentence that expresses any
> concept?

They just make noise. Thus, please continue posting the much
appreciated, accurate analysis & relevant research..

With fruit,
Chris

> On Jul 15, 7:42 am, Laurie > wrote:
>> white, fat and fugly wrote:
>>
>>> crap, again.
>> Anyone else observe that these illiterate meatarian propagandists
>> do not have the ability to write a coherent sentence that
>> expresses any concept?

crisology wrote:
> They just make noise.
Actually, they ARE providing a useful and vital contrast to
intelligent folks who would like to educate themselves, and share
ideas and experiences. Their idiotic beliefs and brutish behavior
provide, at least me, 'talking points' to be easily refuted; this, in
the distinct advantage to those who would like to clarify their
understanding of the science of human nutrition.
So, I use these pathetic psychopaths for =my= purposes; and, they are
too stupid to recognize that I am in control of them.
Thanks, psychopaths; I could not do all this without you.

Laurie

--
Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:
http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
news:alt.food.vegan.science

On Jul 11, 2:53 pm, Laurie > wrote:
> http://ecologos.org/times.htm
>
> Laurie
> --
> Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
> news:alt.food.vegan.science

Thanks for sharing another good addition Laurie. It's worth reading
more than once.

The main idea of Amanda’s Web site is to eat popular “lip smackingly
good meals” like “sardines thrown on a barbecue and eaten with hot
crunchy bread” and “forget the things you shouldn't eat” yet
“reconnect with real food and start concentrating on things that you
actually enjoy.” “Just savour every mouthful.” “Always choose foods
you like.” “..have a good time.”

Amanda is a digestive system-cheerleader between feedings.

I don’t know why English people need a nutritionist to be encouraged
to eat more cows. “How about a succulent steak cooked to perfection”
http://www.amandaursell.com/html/philosophy.html

At “Amanda Ursell's Feel good” http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...3/ai_n14528443
she suggested vitamins for vegetarian children to obtain iron but blew
an opportunity to advise high vitamin C food to DIGEST iron even after
stating, “iron from plant foods is not well ABSORBED.” Any mention of
disease risks associated with heme iron wouldn’t “feel good.” If I
were trying to dissuade people from a veg diet, I don’t know how I
would do it differently. She goes on to suggest eggs, anchovies for
pizza, poultry, etc.-as if to enlist children into her cravings team.
No wonder she has “a habit of attracting calamity.”
http://www.amandaursell.com/shop/pro...b705e71c7481a5

“she obviously is not the slightest bit familiar with plant-based
diets” –Laurie
Amanda stepped up to provide examples of a salt exclusion diet
http://www.amandaursell.com/html/salt.html but otherwise writes as
though she were under the influence of galanin & advertising pressure.

I think the formula Amanda tries to use for calculating nutrients is:
“our innate understanding of what is good for us to eat.”

Chris

crisology wrote:

> Amanda’s Web site ...
Thanks for the links, I have added significantly to my page as a result.
I will send her the link to her page on Ecologos, and challenge her to
a public debate on news:alt.food.vegan.science.
Any bets of whether she will respond in an intellectually-honest manner?
Again, thanks for your continuing support.

Laurie

--
Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:
http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
news:alt.food.vegan.science

On Jul 20, 4:06 pm, Laurie > wrote:
> crisology wrote:
> > Amanda’s Web site ...
>
> Thanks for the links, I have added significantly to my page as a result.

I just read it carefully. Excellent additions! And thank you for
clearly contrasting those pork & sardine examples of "educational
darkness" with "eating in harmony with our genetic programming." Each
page you add brings healthy/natural diet into better perspective.

> I will send her the link to her page on Ecologos, and challenge her to
> a public debate on news:alt.food.vegan.science.

Almost as we speak (last month),
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle4095920.ece
Amanda still advises iron from meat without mention of health risks or
vitamin C which may help absorb heme iron & does help digest natural
iron in plants.

> Any bets of whether she will respond in an intellectually-honest manner?

Response could be contingent upon Almond Board of California ("The
Portfolio Diet") & Nourkrin hair supplement manufacturers' estimates
of whether intellectual honesty will help sales/false body image.
http://hairstyleandcare.blogspot.com...6_archive.html

Amanda has some unturned boulders on that page and a chance to defend/
promote her philosophy & books. But the chances Amanda ambushes, mauls
& ingests raw calves are greater than the likelihood anybody explains
how such cattle tissue supplements are healthier or more natural than
fruit. Amanda hasn't explained how "Cutting out meat, fish, eggs,
dairy foods and cereal grains would result in the loss of many
nutrients" neither has anybody else. Until then omnivarians continue
to cheer lead for digestion while replacing meat with plant food adds
life promoting phytochemicals.

Chris

crisology wrote:
> On Jul 20, 4:06 pm, Laurie > wrote:
>> crisology wrote:
>>> Amanda’s Web site ...
>> Thanks for the links, I have added significantly to my page as a result.
>
> I just read it carefully. Excellent additions! And thank you for
> clearly contrasting those pork & sardine examples of "educational
> darkness" with "eating in harmony with our genetic programming." Each
> page you add brings healthy/natural diet into better perspective.

Larry's and apparently your slant on diet and health would be far better
served in my view if the perspective were presented in a much more
neutral, informative, professional manner. All the insulting rhetoric,
mudslinging and conspiratorial innuendo just makes him look like another
garden variety loon.


>> I will send her the link to her page on Ecologos, and challenge her to
>> a public debate on news:alt.food.vegan.science.
>
> Almost as we speak (last month),
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle4095920.ece
> Amanda still advises iron from meat without mention of health risks or
> vitamin C which may help absorb heme iron & does help digest natural
> iron in plants.
>
>> Any bets of whether she will respond in an intellectually-honest manner?
>
> Response could be contingent upon Almond Board of California ("The
> Portfolio Diet") & Nourkrin hair supplement manufacturers' estimates
> of whether intellectual honesty will help sales/false body image.
> http://hairstyleandcare.blogspot.com...6_archive.html
>
> Amanda has some unturned boulders on that page and a chance to defend/
> promote her philosophy & books. But the chances Amanda ambushes, mauls
> & ingests raw calves are greater than the likelihood anybody explains
> how such cattle tissue supplements are healthier or more natural than
> fruit. Amanda hasn't explained how "Cutting out meat, fish, eggs,
> dairy foods and cereal grains would result in the loss of many
> nutrients" neither has anybody else.

All those foods are loaded with nutrients, what's so difficult to
understand?

Until then omnivarians continue
> to cheer lead for digestion while replacing meat with plant food adds
> life promoting phytochemicals.

It's not about replacing plants with meat, it's about a healthy balance.

There's a lot of equivocation going on here and precious little
objectivity. "Red meat", arguably the least desirable of the meat family
from a health perspective, is often used to represent all meat,
including fish and foul. Diets which consume far too much fatty meat,
processed foods, salt, refined sugar and trans-fats are used to
represent all omnivorous diets, including those largely plant-centric
with relatively small amounts of healthier meats. Those diets are
actually close to many chimp diets, not evolutionary sidesteps at all.

On Jul 22, 3:18 pm, Dutch > wrote:

> Larry's and apparently your slant on diet and health would be far better
> served in my view if the perspective were presented in a much more
> neutral, informative, professional manner.

Like referencing scientific studies?

> All the insulting rhetoric,

The first word of your post is a slight toward Laurie as he doesn't go
by the name of Larry. It seems you are only here searching for
conflict. You're bringing baggage here with no intention of exchanging
information about nutrition or adaptation (parataxic distortion).

> "Cutting out meat, fish, eggs,
> > dairy foods and cereal grains would result in the loss of many
> > nutrients" neither has anybody else.
>
> All those foods are loaded with nutrients, what's so difficult to
> understand?

Name 1 nutrient "loss" by excluding those food substitutes.
All the nutrients (especially protein, iron) are easily obtained in
natural food without the health risks of those food compromises. So
your "loss" is a gain when some nutrients are excessive & instead of
overdosing on protein/iron/fat- food compromises, you would be missing
out on the phytochemicals.

> Until then omnivarians continue
>
> > to cheer lead for digestion while replacing meat with plant food adds
> > life promoting phytochemicals.
>
> It's not about replacing plants with meat, it's about a healthy balance.

When you say "balanced" do you mean HDL balance w/LDL? Do you mean ph
balance? Bacterial flora? Energy ratios? Or balance in terms of
variety of species in diet? Meat of course is excessive in some
nutrients & creates deficiencies in other ways, while fruit naturally
reverses diseases associated with meat and there is no need to try to
"balance" or remedy fruit w/high fiber. The sufficient amount is
already in fruit. Trying to balance LDL w/HDL is not an issue with a
natural diet since the body naturally produces the necessary
cholesterol. In a natural diet you don't need to try to compensate or
take treatments for other food consumed. Food is not naturally disease
producing. When you try to substitute real food with meat you are
asking for deficiencies/overdoses.. Without numbers we can't talk
about balance. As Laurie says "balance" really doesn't exist in the
topic of health since the body is not static.


> There's a lot of equivocation going on here and precious little
> objectivity

Exactly. The most "objectivity" I'm seeing from those eating meat is,
"I like the way it tastes."

> . "Red meat", arguably the least desirable of the meat family

Meat family?

Desirable??

There you go.. Talking about what you are conditioned to "desire." Of
course this doesn't stimulate objectivity. Yet a lot of science is
available to show meat is not only not desirable but unhealthy.

But let's try..

"women who had one-and-a-half servings of red meat a day had nearly
double the risk for hormone receptor-positive cancer compared with
women who ate less than three servings of red meat per week."http://
info.med.yale.edu/yfp/news/breast_107.html

Your response?

> from a health perspective

Yes not from an insulting perspective..

> is often used to represent all meat,

Example? I can't debate "often." You're bringing in baggage/nothing
specific to debate.

> including fish and foul. Diets which consume far too much fatty meat,

Any meat is too much as it is a dietary compromise.

> processed foods, salt, refined sugar and trans-fats are used to
> represent all omnivorous diets, including those largely plant-centric
> with relatively small amounts of healthier meats. Those diets are
> actually close to many chimp diets, not evolutionary sidesteps at all.

??

C.

crisology wrote:

> Response could be contingent upon Almond Board of California ("The
> Portfolio Diet") & Nourkrin hair supplement manufacturers'
> estimates of whether intellectual honesty will help sales/false
> body image.
> http://hairstyleandcare.blogspot.com...6_archive.html
I am not going to read pages of microfont crap; could you quote the
gems for me?

Laurie

--
Scientifically-credible info on plant-based human diets:
http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html
news:alt.food.vegan.science

On Aug 22, 9:59 am, Laurie > wrote:
> crisology wrote:
> > Response could be contingent upon Almond Board of California ("The
> > Portfolio Diet") & Nourkrin hair supplement manufacturers'
> > estimates of whether intellectual honesty will help sales/false
> > body image.
> >http://hairstyleandcare.blogspot.com...6_archive.html
>
> could you quote the
> gems for me?

Laurie, there wasn't a lot at that particular link- no comments in
response to her article are posted. I submitted a comment/question
last month at that site asking why she didn't recommend Vitamin C for
the iron problems she was talking about. She was just promoting the
hair product and more meat. Here is the article in response to a lady
who is busy w/hair falling out:

AU: Stress can certainly play a big role in hair loss and so
addressing this part of your life is crucial. Lemon balm and camomile
teas are both very soothing, with the latter working on anti-anxiety
centres in our brains to help to calm us down. They are certainly
worth sipping throughout the day and at night to improve the chances
of a good sleep.

Also, take a look at your iron intake. Iron is a mineral that we get
from lean red meat, oily fish and eggs as well as some pulses,
fortified breakfast cereals and dark green vegetables, such as
spinach. The problem is that around 40 per cent of women in the UK are
just not getting enough and one sign of long-term poor iron intake is
thinning hair. Try to have at least one iron-rich food a day and top
up with a daily multivitamin and mineral supplement that gives you
around 14mg of iron that is close to the recommended daily intake. I
would not recommend iron alone unless prescribed by your doctor
because it can unbalance the absorption of other minerals.

I have seen some impressive results for hair thinning with another
specific hair supplement formulation called Nourkrin. It is a blend of
soluble silica and vitamin C, plus a protein compound of marine
extracts. I am usually rather nervous of “beauty” supplements but this
one has undergone clinical testing and over a period of six months has
been shown to have good effects on hair gain, comparing favourably
with hair restoring drugs such as finasteride.

The advantage of this supplement is that it is side-effect free. While
scientists are not quite able to pinpoint how it works, they predict
it could be down to improvements in the production of a hormone called
dyhydrotesterone in the hair follicle. It is quite pricey though (you
can buy it from high street chemists and health food stores at £49.95
for a month's supply) and you do need to give it six months to see any
effects, which means a significant investment.

Talking of the hair follicle, it is important to get enough iodine in
your diet by regularly eating foods such as fish (iodised salt gives
us this mineral, too). Iodine is essential for a healthy thyroid gland
which, when underactive, reduces activity of hair follicles and slows
the rate of hair growth."

I found some small gold mines around though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/raiseyour...a_ursell.shtml

"RYG: what kind of things could they take to make the lunch
interesting and healthy?

AU: With packed lunches it's important to keep variety, so you're not
having the same old thing every day. There are so many types of bread
these days. You can have white, brown or granary bread. If you get fed
up with sandwiches you can try white or brown pitta bread. You can
have tortilla wraps and put your favourite filling inside. You can
have things like a pasta salad as well.

There are so many different types of basic carbohydrates you can have
to form the foundation of your packed lunch. Then you can have
protein, like meat, fish or eggs to go with it. Then have some veggies
like tomatoes or cucumbers. To make a packed lunch balanced you need
some fruit. Have an apple, a banana, or a satsuma.

Eat food that you enjoy, because if you don't like it you're going to
bring it home again, or swap it for something else. For a drink have
some fruit juice, or just some water. It's good to have something with
milk in it - maybe a yoghurt or fromage frais, because it's good for
your bones. That way you get a good balance.

..What's important in the long run is that you make sure you have
enough of the mineral called iron in your diet. Again studies have
shown that a lack of iron can cause poor concentration, and can
actually affect GSCE performance. You find iron in things like red
meat, eggs, some nuts and seeds and dark green vegetables. It's very
important that you get enough of this nutrient..

..AU: If you're still growing, you shouldn't go on a strict diet.
Sometimes you grow into your weight. If you're obviously carrying a
lot of extra weight, perhaps it's time to think carefully about
dealing with it. It's very important not to go on a crash diet. You
should never cut out food groups and suddenly say 'I'm not having
dairy foods anymore, I'm not having meat anymore.' It's important to
keep your intake balanced.."

"If you're not a veggie lover and you don't like those, don't bother
trying because some people genetically just don't like them. There's
no need to force yourself."

"Base your diet around healthy food, like porridge, pasta, bread,
things like that. Have lots of fruit and vegetables, and have a bit of
protein, such as meat, fish, eggs and milk. If you want something
sugary or fatty, only have it once a day"

"AU: If you come in from school and you haven't got time to make a big
meal, I would say beans on toast are brilliant. Things like boiled
eggs with a slice of toast, or peanut butter on toast"

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/may...lth/he-ursell6
Not All Dairy Is Taboo for Lactose Intolerant

By Amanda Ursell
May 06, 2002 in print edition S-3

The life of the lactose-intolerant person is also made easier by the
virtually lactose-free and reduced-lactose brands of milks; lactase
enzymes, available in drop or tablet form, that can be added to milk
before drinking; and lactase supplements, taken before a lactose-rich
meal.

The key to coping with lactose intolerance is to remember that for
most people it does not mean a life without milk. After some initial
trial and error, it is a relatively straightforward food intolerance
to manage successfully."

Here is part of her cleansing diet.. I'd hate to see the non-cleansing
version..

"Lethargic and bloated? Then try our three-day, no-pain cleansing diet
devised by Amanda Ursell. And to put a real spring in your step, carry
on for seven days after that.
Amanda Ursell

DINNER

DAY ONE

Roasted chicken thighs with new potatoes and roasted beetroot

DAY TWO

Cod fillet

DAY THREE

Rice and almond salad

Ok, just 1 more.. But there seems to be no limit..

"Too much healthy eating is as bad for children as too much junk
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...Submitted=true

Amanda Ursell

But a significant proportion of our nation's children are worryingly
chubby and heading for potential obesity problems in later life, it
seems that others are suffering from “muesli belt malnutrition”: the
overzealous application of “healthy eating” rules imposed on their
daily food intake. A recent study warns us that too much fibre and too
little fat can lead to vitamin deficiencies and stunts growth in the
under-fives.
This means that young children who have wholemeal bread, brown pasta
and piles of fruit imposed on them are getting too full too quickly
and do not have room for enough foods such as dairy products, meat,
eggs and fish, which have vital nutrients for growth and development.
So how do we strike a balance? Children thrive on a good variety of
foods, which includes grains and potatoes such as bread, pasta,
noodles, rice and all varieties of potatoes; calcium-rich foods such
as milk, yoghurt, fish canned with edible bones such as pilchards;
protein-rich foods such as eggs, chicken and turkey, red meat and
Quorn products; plus a variety of different fruit and vegetables. The
million-dollar question is how much should they have of each"



"I don't know where fruit got this great reputation" -dr atkins

Chris