Yes, I have been in a Persistent Vegetarian State since 1984, and it
has served me wonderfully well. I don't ever want to come out of it!

I hope it will help me prevent this kind of state, along with many
other ills:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persist...getative_state

Best of luck to all my fellow vegetarians and vegans!

--
Brett
http://www.100bestwebsites.org/
"The 100 finest sites on the Web, all in one place!"
Widely-watched non-profit ranking of top Internet sites

Berkeley Brett wrote:

> Yes, I have been in a Persistent Vegetarian State since 1984, and it
> has served me wonderfully well. I don't ever want to come out of it!

Then don't. Who cares either way.

> I hope it will help me prevent this kind of state, along with many
> other ills:

It won't. Clueless idiot.

Ah, you are obviously unfamiliar with the well-established life-
prolonging effects of vegetarianism!

In any event, be well....

--
Brett
http://www.100bestwebsites.org/
"The 100 finest sites on the Web, all in one place!"
Widely-watched non-profit ranking of top Internet sites

For those who are interested in the connection between vegetarianism
and increased life-expectancy, I here reproduce an earlier post of
mine. Many sound, scientific, peer-reviewed studies have supported
the health-benefits of vegetarianism. Only a few are cited below.

Good wishes, long life, and good health to all!

[Brett]

I thought you all might find the following passage from the book
"Fasting and Eating for Health" (ISBN: 031218719X /
http://tinyurl.com/wx6zx ) by Joel Fuhrman, M.D., interesting. It
involves studies of Seventh-Day Adventists, a group that is often
studied because they are disproportionately vegetarian (when compared
with the general American population). (Incidentally, I'm not a
Seventh-Day Adventist myself -- my life's philosophy is much closer to
Buddhism - Vedanta - Quakerism, etc.) This passage starts on page 74:

===== Begin quoted passage =====

Many mortality studies have been done on the Seventh-Day Adventists
..... They are prohibited from using tobacco, alcohol, and pork, and
are
discouraged from consuming meats, fish, eggs, and caffeine-containing
beverages. Because the latter items are only discouraged and not
prohibited, there is a wide range of consumption of these items. ....
If we look at multiple scientific investigations done on this group,
we
find the following:

1. As a whole, male Adventists live an average of 8.9 years longer
than
the rest of (nonsmoking) America, and Adventist women 7.5 years longer
(this includes both vegetarian and nonvegetarian Adventists).
Vegetarian Adventists live the longest in proportion to the time they
had been on a vegetarian diet. [note 22] If we extrapolate the results
to include those on a vegetarian diet for more than half of their
lives, more than 13 years [!!!!] are added to the life span, compared
to the nonsmoking American.

2. Egg and meat consumption is strongly associated with all causes of
mortality. Dairy product and milk consumption is associated with
prostate cancer. The earlier in life that Adventists became
vegetarians, the lower their risk of coronary heart disease. [note 23]
These findings are consistent with the findings of numerous
epidemiologic investigations, including those done on dairy products
and their relation to prostate cancer. [note 24]

3. All-cause mortality shows a significant negative association with
green salad consumption, meaning the more leafy green vegetables
consumed in the diet, the longer the life span. [note 25] This
confirms
the importance of raw, natural plant foods, the loss of important
factors with cooking, and the protective effect of all the
health-giving nutrients they contain.

The conclusion one must make is that animal food consumption is more
of
a risk factor for an early death than even cigarette smoking. [!!!!]
Of course, I am strongly against smoking, but a smoking, lifetime
vegetarian probably has a better chance to reach 75 years of age than
a
nonsmoking, lifetime meat eater....

===== End quoted passage =====

Notes from the passage quoted:

[note 22]: Ruckner C, Hoffman J. "The Seventh-Day Adventist Diet." New
York: Random House, 1991.

[note 23]: Snowdon DA. Animal product consumption and mortality
because
of all causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and
cancer in Seventh-Day Adventists. American Journal of Clinical
Nutrition 1988; 48: 739-48.

[note 24]: Rotkin ID. Studies in the epidemiology of prostate cancer:
Expanded sampling. Cancer Treatment Reports 1977;61:173-80.

[note 25]: Kahn, HA, Phillips RL, Snowdon DA, Choi W. Association
between reported diet and all causes of mortality: twenty-one-year
followup on 27,530 adult Seventh-Day Adventists. American Journal of
Epidemiology 1984:119:775-87.

=====

[Back to me]: Of course, these conclusions are only as sound as the
underlying studies that suggest them. Many studies have supported the
correlation of vegetarianism and longer life expectancy, but
correlation can easily masquerade as CAUSATION, and this is one of the
trickiest fallacies to avoid, even for experienced scientists (and
philosophers -- who really should know better!)

Correlation or causation, I plan to remain in the vegetarian camp as
more studies roll in (primarily for ethical reasons, but also for
health).

Cheers!

(By the way, please feel free to share this message with friends or
acquaintances who might find it interesting.)

--
Brett
http://www.100bestwebsites.org/
"The 100 finest sites on the Web, all in one place!"
Widely-watched non-profit ranking of top Internet sites

"Berkeley Brett" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Ah, you are obviously unfamiliar with the well-established life-
> prolonging effects of vegetarianism!
>
> In any event, be well....
===========
Really? Then tell us why the worlds longests living groups of people are
not vegetarians. In any event, be educated...

ontheroad wrote:
> "Berkeley Brett" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Ah, you are obviously unfamiliar with the well-established life-
>> prolonging effects of vegetarianism!
>>
>> In any event, be well....
> ===========
> Really? Then tell us why the worlds longests living groups of people are
> not vegetarians. In any event, be educated...
>
>
We don't die of disease, we're run over on our bicycles by SUV driving
meat-eaters with brain lesions.

"Elderberry Blossom" > wrote in message
. ..
> ontheroad wrote:
>> "Berkeley Brett" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> Ah, you are obviously unfamiliar with the well-established life-
>>> prolonging effects of vegetarianism!
>>>
>>> In any event, be well....
>> ===========
>> Really? Then tell us why the worlds longests living groups of people are
>> not vegetarians. In any event, be educated...
> We don't die of disease, we're run over on our bicycles by SUV driving
> meat-eaters with brain lesions.
>=================
Thanks for proving your ignorance.... Sissyberry...

ontheroad wrote:
> "Elderberry Blossom" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> ontheroad wrote:
>>> "Berkeley Brett" > wrote in message
>>> ups.com...
>>>> Ah, you are obviously unfamiliar with the well-established life-
>>>> prolonging effects of vegetarianism!
>>>>
>>>> In any event, be well....
>>> ===========
>>> Really? Then tell us why the worlds longests living groups of people are
>>> not vegetarians. In any event, be educated...
>> We don't die of disease, we're run over on our bicycles by SUV driving
>> meat-eaters with brain lesions.
>> =================
> Thanks for proving your ignorance.... Sissyberry...
>
>
That is the snappiest comeback your brain could produce?

"Elderberry Blossom" > wrote in message
. ..
> ontheroad wrote:
>> "Elderberry Blossom" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> ontheroad wrote:
>>>> "Berkeley Brett" > wrote in message
>>>> ups.com...
>>>>> Ah, you are obviously unfamiliar with the well-established life-
>>>>> prolonging effects of vegetarianism!
>>>>>
>>>>> In any event, be well....
>>>> ===========
>>>> Really? Then tell us why the worlds longests living groups of people
>>>> are not vegetarians. In any event, be educated...
>>> We don't die of disease, we're run over on our bicycles by SUV driving
>>> meat-eaters with brain lesions.
>>> =================
>> Thanks for proving your ignorance.... Sissyberry...
> That is the snappiest comeback your brain could produce?
>=====================
I didn't want to go any further than your braindead thought processes could
comprehend, foolish sissyberry...

Berkeley Brett wrote:
> Ah, you are obviously unfamiliar with the well-established life-
> prolonging effects of vegetarianism!

I'm very familiar with the wild-assed claims of vegetarians and their
disingenuous applesranges comparisons of diets.

> In any event, be well....

******.

Berkeley Brett wrote:
> For those who are interested in the connection between vegetarianism
> and increased life-expectancy, I here reproduce an earlier post of
> mine. Many sound, scientific, peer-reviewed studies have supported
> the health-benefits of vegetarianism.

And many more show that it's not vegetarianism that's good but rather a
balance of various healthful lifestyle decisions: not smoking, eating
lean meats, getting exercise, etc.

> Only a few are cited below.
>
> Good wishes, long life, and good health to all!
>
> [Brett]
>
> I thought you all might find the following passage from the book
> "Fasting and Eating for Health" (ISBN: 031218719X /
> http://tinyurl.com/wx6zx ) by Joel Fuhrman, M.D., interesting.

Nope. Boring.

> It
> involves studies of Seventh-Day Adventists, a group that is often
> studied because they are disproportionately vegetarian (when compared
> with the general American population). (Incidentally, I'm not a
> Seventh-Day Adventist myself -- my life's philosophy is much closer to
> Buddhism - Vedanta - Quakerism, etc.) This passage starts on page 74:
>
> ===== Begin quoted passage =====
>
> Many mortality studies have been done on the Seventh-Day Adventists
> .... They are prohibited from using tobacco, alcohol, and pork, and
> are
> discouraged from consuming meats, fish, eggs, and caffeine-containing
> beverages. Because the latter items are only discouraged and not
> prohibited, there is a wide range of consumption of these items. ....
> If we look at multiple scientific investigations done on this group,
> we
> find the following:
>
> 1. As a whole, male Adventists live an average of 8.9 years longer
> than
> the rest of (nonsmoking) America, and Adventist women 7.5 years longer
> (this includes both vegetarian and nonvegetarian Adventists).

Which shows that vegetarianism isn't inherently healthier.

> Vegetarian Adventists live the longest in proportion to the time they
> had been on a vegetarian diet. [note 22] If we extrapolate the results
> to include those on a vegetarian diet for more than half of their
> lives, more than 13 years [!!!!] are added to the life span, compared
> to the nonsmoking American.

Consider this SDA study that looked at vegetarians and mortality. Note
that "dietary factors were *not significant* once smoking was adjusted
for" and" *no significant* dietary associations were found for lung
cancer after adjustment for smoking."

Study: Dietary habits and mortality in 11 000 vegetarians and
health conscious people: results of a 17 year follow up

Smoking was associated with an increased risk of death from all
malignant neoplasms combined (1.45 (1.16 to 1.82)), but the
*dietary factors were not significant* once smoking was adjusted
for. Similarly *no significant dietary associations were found
for lung cancer after adjustment for smoking*. Mortality from
colorectal cancer was *not significantly associated with smoking
or dietary factors*. *Vegetarian diet was associated with an
increased mortality from breast cancer* in women (1.64 (1.01 to
2.67)), and *this estimate was not altered by adjusting for
smoking* (which was not associated with breast cancer
mortality).
http://tinyurl.com/4q6fe

That's a study carried out at Loma Linda, which is the SDA
pro-vegetarian university. The one thing they found most commonly
associated with longevity was nut consumption without regard for whether
individuals ate meat or were vegetarian.

> 2. Egg and meat consumption is strongly associated with all causes of
> mortality. Dairy product and milk consumption is associated with
> prostate cancer. The earlier in life that Adventists became
> vegetarians, the lower their risk of coronary heart disease. [note 23]
> These findings are consistent with the findings of numerous
> epidemiologic investigations, including those done on dairy products
> and their relation to prostate cancer. [note 24]

These points are unsupportable generalizations and fail to consider
other factors. For instance, does "meat" mean fish and chicken, pork, or
cold cuts and hot dogs? I can point you to studies that show reduced
incidence of colon cancer among people who eat the most fish and chicken
compared to the general population. You can also read the above linked
study and note that vegetarians had significantly higher incidence of
death from breast cancer than non-vegetarians. Explain that, twit.

> 3. All-cause mortality shows a significant negative association with
> green salad consumption, meaning the more leafy green vegetables
> consumed in the diet, the longer the life span. [note 25] This
> confirms
> the importance of raw, natural plant foods, the loss of important
> factors with cooking, and the protective effect of all the
> health-giving nutrients they contain.

More leaping to conclusions based on generalizations. People who eat
more salads tend to eat other more healthful foods -- the crowds who eat
at salad bars frequently aren't the same crowd wolfing down thirds and
fourths at Golden Corral.

> The conclusion one must make is that animal food consumption is more
> of
> a risk factor for an early death than even cigarette smoking. [!!!!]

Yet SDA studies show just the opposite. That's what happens when you
make irrational generalizations that aren't actually supported by your
sources.

> Of course, I am strongly against smoking, but a smoking, lifetime
> vegetarian probably has a better chance to reach 75 years of age than
> a
> nonsmoking, lifetime meat eater....

SDA studies show just the opposite:
Consider this study that looked at vegetarians and mortality. Note that
"dietary factors were *not significant* once smoking was adjusted for"
and" *no significant* dietary associations were found for lung cancer
after adjustment for smoking."

Study: Dietary habits and mortality in 11 000 vegetarians and
health conscious people: results of a 17 year follow up

Smoking was associated with an increased risk of death from all
malignant neoplasms combined (1.45 (1.16 to 1.82)), but the
*dietary factors were not significant* once smoking was adjusted
for. Similarly *no significant dietary associations were found
for lung cancer after adjustment for smoking*. Mortality from
colorectal cancer was *not significantly associated with smoking
or dietary factors*. *Vegetarian diet was associated with an
increased mortality from breast cancer* in women (1.64 (1.01 to
2.67)), and *this estimate was not altered by adjusting for
smoking* (which was not associated with breast cancer
mortality).
http://tinyurl.com/4q6fe

> ===== End quoted passage =====
>
> Notes from the passage quoted:
>
> [note 22]: Ruckner C, Hoffman J. "The Seventh-Day Adventist Diet." New
> York: Random House, 1991.
>
> [note 23]: Snowdon DA. Animal product consumption and mortality
> because
> of all causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and
> cancer in Seventh-Day Adventists. American Journal of Clinical
> Nutrition 1988; 48: 739-48.
>
> [note 24]: Rotkin ID. Studies in the epidemiology of prostate cancer:
> Expanded sampling. Cancer Treatment Reports 1977;61:173-80.
>
> [note 25]: Kahn, HA, Phillips RL, Snowdon DA, Choi W. Association
> between reported diet and all causes of mortality: twenty-one-year
> followup on 27,530 adult Seventh-Day Adventists. American Journal of
> Epidemiology 1984:119:775-87.
>
> =====
>
> [Back to me]: Of course, these conclusions are only as sound as the
> underlying studies that suggest them.

Which means they're bullshit.

> Many studies have supported the
> correlation of vegetarianism and longer life expectancy,

No. The correlation is usually between vegetarianism and poor diets:
look to studies that show benefits of consumption of lean meats, low- or
non-fat dairy, low intake of refined and over-processed foods. If you
have an open mind, you'll want to compare healthful vegetarian diets to
healthful diets that include meat and dairy instead of comparing a group
of wackos like the SDAs (the Branch Davidians were an offshoot of the
peculiar SDA sect) who enforce or coerce strict (archaic) dietary laws
on members under the threat that being impure after Jesus finishes going
through the Seven Seals means they won't be one of the 144,000 who get
to go to heaven.

> but
> correlation can easily masquerade as CAUSATION, and this is one of the
> trickiest fallacies to avoid, even for experienced scientists (and
> philosophers -- who really should know better!)

Too bad you're neither a scientist nor a philosopher.

> Correlation or causation, I plan to remain in the vegetarian camp as
> more studies roll in (primarily for ethical reasons,

Bullshit reasons. You're no more ethical for eating tofu than you'd be
if you ate a steak or piece of fish.

> but also for health).

There are no health reasons for vegetarianism. If health were your goal,
you wouldn't be a pussy when it comes to eating lean meat -- you would
relish it like you used to before you lost your balls.

> Cheers!
>
> (By the way, please feel free to share this message with friends or
> acquaintances who might find it interesting.)

No. They have better, more meaningful things to do and to read.