Two shipments of Gyokuro (from different vendors) show the same
characteristic: an intense green color of the leaf. Yesterday I poured
cold water over a spoonful of it and, lo, the cold water turned green,
or more precisely, chartreuse.

Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?

Robert

Robert 9/14/05


> Two shipments of Gyokuro (from different vendors) show the same
> characteristic: an intense green color of the leaf. Yesterday I poured
> cold water over a spoonful of it and, lo, the cold water turned green,
> or more precisely, chartreuse.
>
> Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?
>
> Robert


Robert,

That's an interesting and scarey observation. Perhaps Dog Ma could help with
the chemistry. Why don't you guys connect and we'll get to the bottom of
this. BTW, not so long ago, somebody posted a series of articles from
journals of the 19th Century in which this issue was discussed in regard to
Chinese teas at length -- around a hundred and fifty years ago.

Michael

In article >,
Michael Plant > wrote:

> BTW, not so long ago, somebody posted a series of articles from
> journals of the 19th Century in which this issue was discussed in regard to
> Chinese teas at length -- around a hundred and fifty years ago.

Was that here in this group? Do you recall
the thread name? ........................................p*

9/14/05


> In article >,
> Michael Plant > wrote:
>
>> BTW, not so long ago, somebody posted a series of articles from
>> journals of the 19th Century in which this issue was discussed in regard to
>> Chinese teas at length -- around a hundred and fifty years ago.
>
> Was that here in this group? Do you recall
> the thread name? ........................................p*

I thought so, but maybe not. Anyway, TeaMail for sure.

Michael

> > Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?
> That's an interesting and scarey observation. Perhaps Dog Ma could help
with
> the chemistry.

Good grief, I hope not. It would be very easy to tell with a
spectrophotometer, but I'm much too important now actually to do any honest
lab work. Or maybe they just don't trust me around expensive equipment.

Anyway, rapid cold-water extraction of color from tea shouldn't be too
surprising; works on plenty of other vegetables.

-DM

I woulkdn't be surprised.. Gyokuro is a remarkably green steep while most
'greens' are actual\ky a golden color. Perhaps it's th way the leaves are
cut?




"Robert Dunbar" > wrote in message
...
> Two shipments of Gyokuro (from different vendors) show the same
> characteristic: an intense green color of the leaf. Yesterday I poured
> cold water over a spoonful of it and, lo, the cold water turned green,
> or more precisely, chartreuse.
>
> Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?
>
> Robert

>Two shipments of Gyokuro (from different vendors) show the same
>characteristic: an intense green color of the leaf. Yesterday I poured
>cold water over a spoonful of it and, lo, the cold water turned green,
>or more precisely, chartreuse.

>Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?

>Robert

The extreme "greenness" comes from the tea plant's being grown under a
tarp, causing more cloriphil (sp?) to be produced. Plus Japanese greens
are steemed rather than roasted.

I think...

Cheers,
Nico

Dog Ma /14/05
reply w/o spam

>>> Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?
>> That's an interesting and scarey observation. Perhaps Dog Ma could help
> with
>> the chemistry.
>
> Good grief, I hope not. It would be very easy to tell with a
> spectrophotometer, but I'm much too important now actually to do any honest
> lab work. Or maybe they just don't trust me around expensive equipment.
>
> Anyway, rapid cold-water extraction of color from tea shouldn't be too
> surprising; works on plenty of other vegetables.

Well, as had been suggested elsewhere I think, it would be quite surprising
when experience in this case suggests the contrary. That the Japanese
wouldn't necessarily poison themselves for a deep green brew doesn't mean
they wouldn't happily poison us, if we were willing to pay for it. (Please
don't tell me how inappropriate that is; I already know it. Promise to try
to put a lid on it.) Seriously, and this in response to somebody else's
comment, have you looked at the ingredient list of those packaged Japanese
sweet and/or salt crackery things lately?)

Michael

9/15/05


>> Two shipments of Gyokuro (from different vendors) show the same
>> characteristic: an intense green color of the leaf. Yesterday I poured
>> cold water over a spoonful of it and, lo, the cold water turned green,
>> or more precisely, chartreuse.
>
>> Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?
>
>> Robert
>
> The extreme "greenness" comes from the tea plant's being grown under a
> tarp, causing more cloriphil (sp?) to be produced. Plus Japanese greens
> are steemed rather than roasted.
>
> I think...
>
> Cheers,
> Nico
>

Nico,

Wouldn't limiting light reduce the amount of cloriphil (sp?) produced in the
leaf? After all, if you leave your house plants in a dark closet, they will
turn pale yellow. Tulip shoots newly poking from the earth are yellow until
they get a dose of sun, at which time they turn green. I'd think it'd be the
opposite.

Michael

> Wouldn't limiting light reduce the amount of cloriphil (sp?) produced in
the
> leaf? After all, if you leave your house plants in a dark closet, they
will
> turn pale yellow. Tulip shoots newly poking from the earth are yellow
until
> they get a dose of sun, at which time they turn green. I'd think it'd be
the
> opposite.

Works both ways, actually. Complete shading results in etiolation, or
bleaching - plant doesn't bother trying to make chlorophyll. Probably thinks
it's still underground, and grows leggy instead. If light is too strong, it
will also produce less chlorophyll, as less is needed to capture the
required energy. Look at a shade-tolerant plant like a big-leaf rhododendron
growing in full sun: the exposed leaves tend to be yellowish, where those
deep inside may be full green.

Clever lady, Mother Nature.

-DM

Dog Ma /15/05
reply w/o spam

>> Wouldn't limiting light reduce the amount of cloriphil (sp?) produced in
> the
>> leaf? After all, if you leave your house plants in a dark closet, they
> will
>> turn pale yellow. Tulip shoots newly poking from the earth are yellow
> until
>> they get a dose of sun, at which time they turn green. I'd think it'd be
> the
>> opposite.
>
> Works both ways, actually. Complete shading results in etiolation, or
> bleaching - plant doesn't bother trying to make chlorophyll. Probably thinks
> it's still underground, and grows leggy instead. If light is too strong, it
> will also produce less chlorophyll, as less is needed to capture the
> required energy. Look at a shade-tolerant plant like a big-leaf rhododendron
> growing in full sun: the exposed leaves tend to be yellowish, where those
> deep inside may be full green.
>
> Clever lady, Mother Nature.
>
> -DM
>
>
So, the shading causes the plant to produce more clorophyll to capture more
energy, as it were? Very clever, indeed.

Michael

Robert Dunbar > wrote:
> Two shipments of Gyokuro (from different vendors) show the same
> characteristic: an intense green color of the leaf. Yesterday I poured
> cold water over a spoonful of it and, lo, the cold water turned green,
> or more precisely, chartreuse.
> Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?

Here's a relevant experiment: let the chartreuse liquid in question sit
for a few hours. It should oxidize to brown. If it's still a virulent
green in the morning, I'd say that is proof of artificiality. Of course,
oxidation isn't proof the other direction.

Also (and excuse me if someone else has mentioned this), I've seen several
gyokuros with matcha (pulverized green tea) added. So I suppose, if it is
one of those, one could say it is dyed with matcha.

Best,

Rick.

Robert Dunbar wrote:
> Two shipments of Gyokuro (from different vendors) show the same
> characteristic: an intense green color of the leaf. Yesterday I poured
> cold water over a spoonful of it and, lo, the cold water turned green,
> or more precisely, chartreuse.
>
> Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?
>
> Robert

You raised my curiosity so I tried it on three different Gyokuros that
I have. All are from different regions in Japan and also 3 different
vendors. I put 1 gram of each in a shot glass and then added 1
tablespoon of cold water. Each one resulted in greenish liquor, to
varying degrees, after sitting for 2 minutes.

Interesting....

Mike

"Nico" > wrote in message precisely,

> >Question: Is Gyokuro dyed green?

I guess charteuse is dyed with gyokuro.

> The extreme "greenness" comes from the tea plant's being grown under a
> tarp, causing more cloriphil (sp?) to be produced.

I don't find gyokuros greener than other uncovered senchas. Gyokuros tend to
be deep green but deep slightly-yellow-green, while there are sencha that
turn more blue-green if processed in a certain way.

>Plus Japanese greens
> are steemed rather than roasted.

That's it.
The senchas that are microwave-steemed tend to get the most irreal green.
Freeze-drying also keeps greener colors to herbs but I have not heard they
did it for tea in Japan (for herb tea in France, they do it.).

Also there is a stuff I don't remember the English name that is used to keep
vivid colors to preserved vegetables.
Supposing they wanted to cheat, that'd be easier to rinse the leaves with
that than to dye them. I don't think they need.

Kuri

Dog Ma 1 (reply w/o spam)> wrote:
>
>Anyway, rapid cold-water extraction of color from tea shouldn't be too
>surprising; works on plenty of other vegetables.

I thought the color was mostly chlorophyll, which isn't all that soluble
in water? Otherwise, the water you boil spinach in would turn green very
quickly. Now, if you make tea with ether and acetone instead of water...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."