Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600. The
Portuguese in the late 1500's in China describe it as a 'chaw'
ingested orally and not infused. Black tea was used in 1600's to
survive 18 month sea trips. A 1660 newspaper advertisement describes
it a leaf with humidity removed by drying in the shade and stored in
iron skillets. The English terms Bohea for black tea and Hyson
meaning green tea was used by 1700. When black tea drinking became
popular in Europe it became popular in China. By the 1860's and
Clipper ships voyage of 100 days oolong is brought to England.

Jim

(Gyorgy Sajo) wrote in message . com>...
> (bruce) wrote in message . com>...
> >
> > Black/Red tea is roughly 100 years old and was a sort of happy
> > accident, it was not invented with anyone in mind. The story of
> > modern day Keemun is that of an accidental change in the processing of
> > green Keemun. Green tea has a much longer history in China than
> > Black/Red and must be more wrapped up in their traditions and culture.
> > The Book of Tea talks about which types of tea are favored in asia
> > and why, it's a very interesting book, highly reccomeded!
> >
> >
> > I think the first tea Europeans drank was green but when given the
> > choice the European culture with it's different taste preferences must
> > have been really taken with Red/Black tea. Then in the ninteenth
> > century when India really took off as a tea growing region the
> > Europeans were able to process tea however they wanted, (the
> > processing of tea had been unknown to the Europeans for a long time)
> > black tea was their main choice.
>
> Thank you for the answer. Now I have checked the matter in John C.
> Evan's excellent book, "Tea in China: The History of China's National
> Drink", and it looks like black/red tea has been around at least in
> the past five hundred years. According this source, black/red tea was
> developed sometime during the Ming Dinasty (1368-1644), explicitly for
> export purposes. It was the same time when the use of tea bricks was
> replaced by loose tea as we know it today. Loose tea compared to brick
> tea traveled badly and was easily spoiled. Ming teamen developed the
> process of fermenting the leaves, thus producing a more robust and
> rot-proof tea that they called red tea. This tea was only ment to be
> exported to the "barbarian lands", like Manchuria, the Chinese
> themself disdained black tea.
>
> In 1644 the Manchus came to power in China. They preferred to drink
> black tea with milk, and this habit spred quickly to Europe, together
> with the first shipments of tea. From the above follows that the
> Europeans most probably received black/red tea from China.
>
> Gyorgy

(Space Cowboy) wrote in message m>...
> Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600. The
> Portuguese in the late 1500's in China describe it as a 'chaw'
> ingested orally and not infused. Black tea was used in 1600's to
> survive 18 month sea trips. A 1660 newspaper advertisement describes
> it a leaf with humidity removed by drying in the shade and stored in
> iron skillets. The English terms Bohea for black tea and Hyson
> meaning green tea was used by 1700. When black tea drinking became
> popular in Europe it became popular in China. By the 1860's and
> Clipper ships voyage of 100 days oolong is brought to England.
>
> Jim
>

Great info, thank you. Do you mind if I ask you about your sources? I
am not mistrustful, but I have not yet found a good and detailed book
about the history of the tea in Europe. I could not find any detailed
information about which kind of teas were imported to Europe since
1610 and in the following two centuries.

> Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600.

Does it apply to semifermented teas like oolong, too? I would love to
know, where and when those teas first appeared in China.

BTW it is interesting, that while you can read a lot about the history
of green tea in China, there are scarce informations - if any - about
the origins and the history of oolong, black/red and puerh teas.

Thank you,
Gyorgy

Just some Google factoids. I did verify the etymology of British tea
terms once. The history of tea in Europe is nothing more than the
history to the Dutch and British East Indies trading companies.
Shipping records are still available from the first voyages in the
17th century and insurance records from Lloyds of London in 18th
century. Early imports of mainland oolongs in 1860's were replaced by
Formosa oolong by end of the century.

Jim

(Gyorgy Sajo) wrote in message . com>...
> (Space Cowboy) wrote in message m>...
> > Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600. The
> > Portuguese in the late 1500's in China describe it as a 'chaw'
> > ingested orally and not infused. Black tea was used in 1600's to
> > survive 18 month sea trips. A 1660 newspaper advertisement describes
> > it a leaf with humidity removed by drying in the shade and stored in
> > iron skillets. The English terms Bohea for black tea and Hyson
> > meaning green tea was used by 1700. When black tea drinking became
> > popular in Europe it became popular in China. By the 1860's and
> > Clipper ships voyage of 100 days oolong is brought to England.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
> Great info, thank you. Do you mind if I ask you about your sources? I
> am not mistrustful, but I have not yet found a good and detailed book
> about the history of the tea in Europe. I could not find any detailed
> information about which kind of teas were imported to Europe since
> 1610 and in the following two centuries.
>
> > Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600.
>
> Does it apply to semifermented teas like oolong, too? I would love to
> know, where and when those teas first appeared in China.
>
> BTW it is interesting, that while you can read a lot about the history
> of green tea in China, there are scarce informations - if any - about
> the origins and the history of oolong, black/red and puerh teas.
>
> Thank you,
> Gyorgy

Just some Google factoids. I did verify the etymology of British tea
terms once. The history of tea in Europe is nothing more than the
history to the Dutch and British East Indies trading companies.
Shipping records are still available from the first voyages in the
17th century and insurance records from Lloyds of London in 18th
century. Early imports of mainland oolongs in 1860's were replaced by
Formosa oolong by end of the century.

Jim

(Gyorgy Sajo) wrote in message . com>...
> (Space Cowboy) wrote in message m>...
> > Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600. The
> > Portuguese in the late 1500's in China describe it as a 'chaw'
> > ingested orally and not infused. Black tea was used in 1600's to
> > survive 18 month sea trips. A 1660 newspaper advertisement describes
> > it a leaf with humidity removed by drying in the shade and stored in
> > iron skillets. The English terms Bohea for black tea and Hyson
> > meaning green tea was used by 1700. When black tea drinking became
> > popular in Europe it became popular in China. By the 1860's and
> > Clipper ships voyage of 100 days oolong is brought to England.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
> Great info, thank you. Do you mind if I ask you about your sources? I
> am not mistrustful, but I have not yet found a good and detailed book
> about the history of the tea in Europe. I could not find any detailed
> information about which kind of teas were imported to Europe since
> 1610 and in the following two centuries.
>
> > Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600.
>
> Does it apply to semifermented teas like oolong, too? I would love to
> know, where and when those teas first appeared in China.
>
> BTW it is interesting, that while you can read a lot about the history
> of green tea in China, there are scarce informations - if any - about
> the origins and the history of oolong, black/red and puerh teas.
>
> Thank you,
> Gyorgy

(Space Cowboy) wrote in message m>...

> When black tea drinking became
> popular in Europe it became popular in China.

Have drinking of black tea ever been popular in China?? My sources say
just the opposite. (Save the drinking habit of the Manchu ruling
class, who was not Han Chinese, but of Mongolian origin.)

What made black tea popular in China was the European addition of a
handle to the teapot. Initially the Chinese imported the adaptation
then copied and exported. Essentially the Chinese realized if black
tea was good enough for the Europeans it was good for them. I don't
know of any breakdown statistics for current green-oolong-black
consumption in China. I'd say the Chinese supermarket brand selection
is less for oolong than green-black. Brand name oolong for the
English markets has essentially dried up. Even when it was available
it was more expensive than the other two. The Chinese oolongs are
cheaper than the Taiwan oolongs at my local tea shoppe. It could be
the relatively high European price is due to domestic consumption
which is certainly true for Taiwan. I've been drinking a wonderful
Taiwan Orange Blossom (flowers) oolong from my local tea shoppe.

Jim

(Gyorgy Sajo) wrote in message . com>...
> (Space Cowboy) wrote in message m>...
>
> > When black tea drinking became
> > popular in Europe it became popular in China.
>
> Have drinking of black tea ever been popular in China?? My sources say
> just the opposite. (Save the drinking habit of the Manchu ruling
> class, who was not Han Chinese, but of Mongolian origin.)

Space Cowboy rose quietly and spake the following:

> I've been drinking a wonderful
> Taiwan Orange Blossom (flowers) oolong from my local tea shoppe.

Now that sounds absolutely tasty.

--
Derek

A few harmless flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of
destruction.

I looked all over the Internet and can't find Orange Blossom tisane
for sale from anybody. I know it becomes an orange but you'd think
the Florida farmers would harvest before hard freezes. I'll check a
couple of herbal stores locally. My local tea shoppe sells all tea
infusions for the same price. Knowing this I usually walk out with a
cup of the more expensive stuff like silver needles or kokeicha.
Recently he's been selling a genmaicha with matcha making a
psychedelic green concoction. Oh yes he now sells bubble tea. I
don't know what I hate the most tapioca or bergamot.

Jim

Derek > wrote in message >...
> Space Cowboy rose quietly and spake the following:
>
> > I've been drinking a wonderful
> > Taiwan Orange Blossom (flowers) oolong from my local tea shoppe.
>
> Now that sounds absolutely tasty.

Space Cowboy rose quietly and spake the following:

> I looked all over the Internet and can't find Orange Blossom tisane
> for sale from anybody. I know it becomes an orange but you'd think
> the Florida farmers would harvest before hard freezes. I'll check a
> couple of herbal stores locally. My local tea shoppe sells all tea
> infusions for the same price. Knowing this I usually walk out with a
> cup of the more expensive stuff like silver needles or kokeicha.
> Recently he's been selling a genmaicha with matcha making a
> psychedelic green concoction. Oh yes he now sells bubble tea. I
> don't know what I hate the most tapioca or bergamot.

The tapioca. Most definitely the tapioca.

--
Derek

Scintillate, scintillate globule vivific
Fain would I fathom thy nature specific
Loftily perched in the ether capacious
Strongly resembling a gem carbonaceous.

"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> Space Cowboy rose quietly and spake the following:
>
> > I looked all over the Internet and can't find Orange Blossom tisane
> > for sale from anybody. I know it becomes an orange but you'd think
> > the Florida farmers would harvest before hard freezes. I'll check a
> > couple of herbal stores locally. My local tea shoppe sells all tea
> > infusions for the same price. Knowing this I usually walk out with a
> > cup of the more expensive stuff like silver needles or kokeicha.
> > Recently he's been selling a genmaicha with matcha making a
> > psychedelic green concoction. Oh yes he now sells bubble tea. I
> > don't know what I hate the most tapioca or bergamot.
>
> The tapioca. Most definitely the tapioca.
>
> --
> Derek
>

I made the mistake the other day of going into a place called the Green Tea
house, in one of our local Asian areas, and asking for a cup of hot green
tea. I knew something was wrong when they didn't want to know what kind of
green tea I wanted. I got some sweet green concoction with little
resemblance to tea. It was the "green tea" stuff they use for bubble tea
heated in a microwave. They couldn't understand why I didn't want tapioca
in it. The kids around here love the stuff, but I just don't get it.

Blues
Thankful for this cup of Den's Teas Shincha

"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> Space Cowboy rose quietly and spake the following:
>
> > I looked all over the Internet and can't find Orange Blossom tisane
> > for sale from anybody. I know it becomes an orange but you'd think
> > the Florida farmers would harvest before hard freezes. I'll check a
> > couple of herbal stores locally. My local tea shoppe sells all tea
> > infusions for the same price. Knowing this I usually walk out with a
> > cup of the more expensive stuff like silver needles or kokeicha.
> > Recently he's been selling a genmaicha with matcha making a
> > psychedelic green concoction. Oh yes he now sells bubble tea. I
> > don't know what I hate the most tapioca or bergamot.
>
> The tapioca. Most definitely the tapioca.
>
> --
> Derek
>

I made the mistake the other day of going into a place called the Green Tea
house, in one of our local Asian areas, and asking for a cup of hot green
tea. I knew something was wrong when they didn't want to know what kind of
green tea I wanted. I got some sweet green concoction with little
resemblance to tea. It was the "green tea" stuff they use for bubble tea
heated in a microwave. They couldn't understand why I didn't want tapioca
in it. The kids around here love the stuff, but I just don't get it.

Blues
Thankful for this cup of Den's Teas Shincha

Space Cowboy rose quietly and spake the following:

> I looked all over the Internet and can't find Orange Blossom tisane
> for sale from anybody. I know it becomes an orange but you'd think
> the Florida farmers would harvest before hard freezes. I'll check a
> couple of herbal stores locally. My local tea shoppe sells all tea
> infusions for the same price. Knowing this I usually walk out with a
> cup of the more expensive stuff like silver needles or kokeicha.
> Recently he's been selling a genmaicha with matcha making a
> psychedelic green concoction. Oh yes he now sells bubble tea. I
> don't know what I hate the most tapioca or bergamot.

The tapioca. Most definitely the tapioca.

--
Derek

Scintillate, scintillate globule vivific
Fain would I fathom thy nature specific
Loftily perched in the ether capacious
Strongly resembling a gem carbonaceous.

I looked all over the Internet and can't find Orange Blossom tisane
for sale from anybody. I know it becomes an orange but you'd think
the Florida farmers would harvest before hard freezes. I'll check a
couple of herbal stores locally. My local tea shoppe sells all tea
infusions for the same price. Knowing this I usually walk out with a
cup of the more expensive stuff like silver needles or kokeicha.
Recently he's been selling a genmaicha with matcha making a
psychedelic green concoction. Oh yes he now sells bubble tea. I
don't know what I hate the most tapioca or bergamot.

Jim

Derek > wrote in message >...
> Space Cowboy rose quietly and spake the following:
>
> > I've been drinking a wonderful
> > Taiwan Orange Blossom (flowers) oolong from my local tea shoppe.
>
> Now that sounds absolutely tasty.

Space Cowboy rose quietly and spake the following:

> I've been drinking a wonderful
> Taiwan Orange Blossom (flowers) oolong from my local tea shoppe.

Now that sounds absolutely tasty.

--
Derek

A few harmless flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of
destruction.

What made black tea popular in China was the European addition of a
handle to the teapot. Initially the Chinese imported the adaptation
then copied and exported. Essentially the Chinese realized if black
tea was good enough for the Europeans it was good for them. I don't
know of any breakdown statistics for current green-oolong-black
consumption in China. I'd say the Chinese supermarket brand selection
is less for oolong than green-black. Brand name oolong for the
English markets has essentially dried up. Even when it was available
it was more expensive than the other two. The Chinese oolongs are
cheaper than the Taiwan oolongs at my local tea shoppe. It could be
the relatively high European price is due to domestic consumption
which is certainly true for Taiwan. I've been drinking a wonderful
Taiwan Orange Blossom (flowers) oolong from my local tea shoppe.

Jim

(Gyorgy Sajo) wrote in message . com>...
> (Space Cowboy) wrote in message m>...
>
> > When black tea drinking became
> > popular in Europe it became popular in China.
>
> Have drinking of black tea ever been popular in China?? My sources say
> just the opposite. (Save the drinking habit of the Manchu ruling
> class, who was not Han Chinese, but of Mongolian origin.)

(Space Cowboy) wrote in message m>...
> Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600. The
> Portuguese in the late 1500's in China describe it as a 'chaw'
> ingested orally and not infused. Black tea was used in 1600's to
> survive 18 month sea trips. A 1660 newspaper advertisement describes
> it a leaf with humidity removed by drying in the shade and stored in
> iron skillets. The English terms Bohea for black tea and Hyson
> meaning green tea was used by 1700. When black tea drinking became
> popular in Europe it became popular in China. By the 1860's and
> Clipper ships voyage of 100 days oolong is brought to England.
>
> Jim
>

Great info, thank you. Do you mind if I ask you about your sources? I
am not mistrustful, but I have not yet found a good and detailed book
about the history of the tea in Europe. I could not find any detailed
information about which kind of teas were imported to Europe since
1610 and in the following two centuries.

> Tea fermentation methods were established in China by 1600.

Does it apply to semifermented teas like oolong, too? I would love to
know, where and when those teas first appeared in China.

BTW it is interesting, that while you can read a lot about the history
of green tea in China, there are scarce informations - if any - about
the origins and the history of oolong, black/red and puerh teas.

Thank you,
Gyorgy

(Space Cowboy) wrote in message m>...

> When black tea drinking became
> popular in Europe it became popular in China.

Have drinking of black tea ever been popular in China?? My sources say
just the opposite. (Save the drinking habit of the Manchu ruling
class, who was not Han Chinese, but of Mongolian origin.)