 |
|
| Sushi (alt.food.sushi) For talking sushi. (Sashimi, wasabi, miso soup, and other elements of the sushi experience are valid topics.) Sushi is a broad topic; discussions range from preparation to methods of eating to favorite kinds to good restaurants. |
| Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
where is everyone?
You've all been pretty quiet lately. I've been swamped at work and
haven't had time to check in a few weeks (months) but you guys are usually pretty chatty  OB sushi stuff: I've recently been told that most of what I know about hamachi is wrong, and that we non Japanese folk are confusing Japanese Amberjack, Yellowtail Amberjack, Almaco Jack, and greater Amberjack and confusing nomenclature on them (hamachi/buri/hiramasa/hirenaga-kanpachi/kanpachi/kona). I'm digging up all the info I can on this, but can anyone affirm that there is some confusion outside Japan as the the real Japanese names for all these fish and which fish they really are? and that "hamachi" is really Japanese Abmerjack and that Yellowtail Amberjack is really "Hiramasa?" Thanks. -- HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/ The Sushi FAQ ...><((((º> HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiotaku/ The Sushi Otaku Blog HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiyapedia/ Sushi-Ya-Pedia Restaurant Finder HTTP://www.theteafaq.com/ The Tea FAQ HTTP://www.jerkyfaq.com/ The Jerky FAQ HTTP://www.omega3faq.com/ The Omega 3 Fatty Acids FAQ |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Warren wrote:
> You've all been pretty quiet lately. I've been swamped at work and > haven't had time to check in a few weeks (months) but you guys are > usually pretty chatty Yeah, its been pretty busy with home and work to have sushi and then post.. > OB sushi stuff: But since you asked.. I had a quick bite at a local place in my town. I've always been rather disappointed with this place once the two Chinese brothers sold it to a Cambodian family. The new owners just don't have a clue about sushi. I order a spicy tuna maki and an order of saba. The spicy tuna was just a tekka maki with sriracha sauce on top. And I noticed the guy pulls out two slices of saba from below and puts them in the microwave for a few seconds. Yags! At least they make an ok miso soup. -- Dan |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:03:47 -0500, Warren >
wrote: >You've all been pretty quiet lately. I've been swamped at work and >haven't had time to check in a few weeks (months) but you guys are >usually pretty chatty > >OB sushi stuff: >I've recently been told that most of what I know about hamachi is wrong, >and that we non Japanese folk are confusing Japanese Amberjack, >Yellowtail Amberjack, Almaco Jack, and greater Amberjack and confusing >nomenclature on them >(hamachi/buri/hiramasa/hirenaga-kanpachi/kanpachi/kona). I'm digging up >all the info I can on this, but can anyone affirm that there is some >confusion outside Japan as the the real Japanese names for all these >fish and which fish they really are? > >and that "hamachi" is really Japanese Abmerjack and that Yellowtail >Amberjack is really "Hiramasa?" > >Thanks. it *is* a slow news day, isn't it? the places i frequent usually distinguish between yellowtail and amberjack using the terms hamachi & kanpachi. while there may be different varieties of fish sold as "yellowtail", i find it difficult to believe that kanpach/-amberjack would be sold in a sushi restaurant as yellowtail, since it's more expensive IIRC. some sources define hamachi as being an age distinction, some say the term is used for farmed fish. i think that for most customers, as long as they get what they expect when they use the term, they're not going to obsess. for all i know, i may have been using the term indiscriminately, but when i ask for hamachi belly vs. kanpachi, i usually get what i expect. still, it might not be a bad idea to ask chef what *he* thinks the terms mean. ==== i had what was described as golden snapper ("kimme tai"?) served to me for the first time last week. the skin actually was kinda golden in color but what made it remarkable was that with a light searing, it developed a smoky taste which added a new dimension to the yuzu and sea salt treatment. -------- "any words spelled incorrectly are probably typing errors" |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
> You've all been pretty quiet lately. I'm personally somewhat lost interest in sushi since I'm stunned by what kind of crap they serve as sushi here in Helsinki, Finland. The best place is probably a small modest sushi bar Gyosai Sushi run by a Japanese itamae with his son. Nothing too fancy but at least they do not use rice molds for making 'kata'. So I've mostly made sushi at home. I've also promised to teach my 12 year old goddaughter how to make sushi. Making sushi here is a bit difficult since the variety of fish is somewhat limited and I've even quit buing tuna. But with trial and error I've managed for example to come up with just the right salt & vinegar treatment for baltic herring. I rather buy local fresh fish than frozen and imported. It is not authentic sushi I know but it is the best I can make here. > and that "hamachi" is really Japanese Abmerjack and that Yellowtail > Amberjack is really "Hiramasa?" I've been reading 'The connoisseur's gude to sushi by Dave Lowry' (I never thought a sushi book can be funny too.) and it says that 'hamachi' is yellowtail. A quote. "Although 'yellowtail' is by far the most common term in English for the fish, and it is the one preferred by sport fishermen, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration officially classifies this fish as an amberjack. Legally, however, it and its various closely related pals can be sold in the United States as "yellowtail", "bonito", "jackfish", "kingfish", "coronado", "king amberjack" or "madregal", and doubtless under a few other 'noms de plume'." A dictionary of japanese food says 'see inada' and for 'inada' it says "yellowtail, Japanese amberjack". Lowry mentions inada as another Japanese name for 'hamachi'. 'Hiramasa', according to Lowry is amberjack and then comes a long explanation how it is often mistaken as yellowtail but is in fact different species. Jukka |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Armadillo > wrote:
> > You've all been pretty quiet lately. > > I'm personally somewhat lost interest in sushi since I'm stunned by what > kind of crap they serve as sushi here in Helsinki, Finland. The best > place is probably a small modest sushi bar Gyosai Sushi run by a Japanese > itamae with his son. Nothing too fancy but at least they do not use rice > molds for making 'kata'. > > So I've mostly made sushi at home. I've also promised to teach my 12 year > old goddaughter how to make sushi. [ . . . ] Thanks, Jukka. Good Godfather. Teaching her how to make Sushi Rice (Sushi-meshi or Sumeshi) is the best place to start. That's what gives sushi its authenticity! Sushi Rice (Sushi-meshi or Sumeshi) Ingredients 3-1/3 cups short-grain rice, washed 4 cups water 3 inch square konbu (giant kelp) Dressing 5 Tbs plus 1 tsp rice vinegar 2 to 5 Tbs sugar 4 tsp sea salt Preparation Put rice in heavy bottomed medium-sized pot or rice cooker and add the water. Wipe konbu clean with a damp cloth, slashing in a few places to release more flavor if desired. Place on top of rice in water. Cover and heat over medium heat until it starts boiling. Remove and discard the konbu. Cover tightly and boil over high heat for 2 minutes. Turn heat down to medium and boil another 5 minutes. Reduce heat to low and cook for 15 minutes or 'til all water has been absorbed. Turn off heat and let stand (on burner), with pot lid wrapped in a kitchen towel, 10 to 15 minutes. Meanwhile, prepare vinegar dressing. Dissolve the sugar and salt in the vinegar over low heat. [NOTE: A little more vinegar in the summer, but, to your taste] Force-cool to room temperature by placing mixture in a metal bowl and twirling in a bath of water and ice. Tossing rice Using a flat wooden spoon or rice paddle, spread the hot rice in a thin layer in a wide and shallow wooden or plastic bowl or hangiri tub. Toss rice with horizontal cutting strokes to keep grains separate. While tossing, sprinkle vinegar dressing generously over the rice, but not so much that you make the rice mushy. Cool the rice quickly to room temperature as you toss it, using a small fan or one of your kids fanning with a folded up newspaper! Should all take about 10 minutes. Cover with a damp towel in a container and finish the same day. Don't bother refrigerating it to make stir-fry the next day! Mix 'hand-vinegar' (tezu - 2 Tbs rice vinegar to 6 Tbs water) in a small bowl and use to keep the rice from sticking to your fingers. Dip your fingers in the "hand-vinegar" and rub palms together. Pick up sbout 1-1/2 Tbs vinegared rice and form into a roughly rectangular shape, about 1-1/2" by 3/4". Place rice across the first joint of the fingers of your strong hand and form by clenching that hand. With index and middle fingers, press and form rice into a more defined and firm shape, turning rice over so that all sides receive equal pressure. Don't squash or mush the rice; firm, but gentle. Smear a dab of wasabi in the center of the fish and press fish and rice 'finger' together. Use nori strips as desired. {NOTE: Nori has a "front" side and a "back" side. The "back" side is the side on which the ingredients are laid before rolling. Always toast nori by passing the "Front" side over a flame 'til crisp.] Shrimp should be parboiled (skewer with toothpick to keep from curling) about 3 minutes. Find more info in "Japanese Cooking, A Simple Art", by Shijuo Tsuji, Kodensha Int'l, Tokyo, 1982, p. 290 et seq. This is my favorite English language Japanese cookbook.Tsuji-sama's descriptions, explanations, recipes and anecdotes are beyond simply excellent. If you can find it, I highly recommend it. The Tsuji Culinary School is headquartered in Osaka, and has a branch in Chteau de l'Éclair, France. Ahhh. Would that I could. ;-( Have fun, Goddaughter! -- Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061 |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Armadillo > wrote:
> > You've all been pretty quiet lately. > > I'm personally somewhat lost interest in sushi since I'm stunned by what > kind of crap they serve as sushi here in Helsinki, Finland. The best > place is probably a small modest sushi bar Gyosai Sushi run by a Japanese > itamae with his son. Nothing too fancy but at least they do not use rice > molds for making 'kata'. > > So I've mostly made sushi at home. I've also promised to teach my 12 year > old goddaughter how to make sushi. [ . . . ] Thanks, Jukka. Good Godfather. Teaching her how to make Sushi Rice (Sushi-meshi or Sumeshi) is the best place to start. That's what gives sushi its authenticity! Sushi Rice (Sushi-meshi or Sumeshi) Ingredients 3-1/3 cups short-grain rice, washed 4 cups water 3 inch square konbu (giant kelp) Dressing 5 Tbs plus 1 tsp rice vinegar 2 to 5 Tbs sugar 4 tsp sea salt Preparation Put rice in heavy bottomed medium-sized pot or rice cooker and add the water. Wipe konbu clean with a damp cloth, slashing in a few places to release more flavor if desired. Place on top of rice in water. Cover and heat over medium heat until it starts boiling. Remove and discard the konbu. Cover tightly and boil over high heat for 2 minutes. Turn heat down to medium and boil another 5 minutes. Reduce heat to low and cook for 15 minutes or 'til all water has been absorbed. Turn off heat and let stand (on burner), with pot lid wrapped in a kitchen towel, 10 to 15 minutes. Meanwhile, prepare vinegar dressing. Dissolve the sugar and salt in the vinegar over low heat. [NOTE: A little more vinegar in the summer, but, to your taste] Force-cool to room temperature by placing mixture in a metal bowl and twirling in a bath of water and ice. Tossing rice Using a flat wooden spoon or rice paddle, spread the hot rice in a thin layer in a wide and shallow wooden or plastic bowl or hangiri tub. Toss rice with horizontal cutting strokes to keep grains separate. While tossing, sprinkle vinegar dressing generously over the rice, but not so much that you make the rice mushy. Cool the rice quickly to room temperature as you toss it, using a small fan or your Godfather fanning with a folded up newspaper! Should all take about 10 minutes. Cover with a damp towel in a container and finish the same day. Don't bother refrigerating it to make stir-fry the next day! Mix 'hand-vinegar' (tezu - 2 Tbs rice vinegar to 6 Tbs water) in a small bowl and use to keep the rice from sticking to your fingers. Dip your fingers in the "hand-vinegar" and rub palms together. Pick up sbout 1-1/2 Tbs vinegared rice and form into a roughly rectangular shape, about 1-1/2" by 3/4". Place rice across the first joint of the fingers of your strong hand and form by clenching that hand. With index and middle fingers, press and form rice into a more defined and firm shape, turning rice over so that all sides receive equal pressure. Don't squash or mush the rice; firm, but gentle. Smear a dab of wasabi in the center of the fish and press fish and rice 'finger' together. Use nori strips as desired. {NOTE: Nori has a "front" side and a "back" side. The "back" side is the side on which the ingredients are laid before rolling. Always toast nori by passing the "Front" side over a flame 'til crisp.] Shrimp should be parboiled (skewer with toothpick to keep from curling) about 3 minutes. Find more info in "Japanese Cooking, A Simple Art", by Shijuo Tsuji, Kodensha Int'l, Tokyo, 1982, p. 290 et seq. This is my favorite English language Japanese cookbook.Tsuji-sama's descriptions, explanations, recipes and anecdotes are beyond simply excellent. If you can find it, I highly recommend it. The Tsuji Culinary School is headquartered in Osaka, and has a branch in Chteau de l'Éclair, France. Ahhh. Would that I could. ;-( Have fun, Goddaughter! -- Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061 |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
> Thanks, Jukka. Good Godfather. Teaching her how to make Sushi Rice > (Sushi-meshi or Sumeshi) is the best place to start. That's what gives > sushi its authenticity! Yes, I know. It took me years to learn how to make half-decent sushi rice. I have made sushi at home for about 20 years now but I'm still far from professional quality. Rice is just where sushi here fails miserably. I told my goddaughter that we can cut a few corners because in Japan to be itamae cooks rice at least for an year before he (or she?) is allowd too even touch the fish. ;-) We will probaly start at market hall next door by bying a few whole fish from a trusted fishmonger. > Find more info in "Japanese Cooking, A Simple Art", by Shijuo Tsuji, It is one of the best. I have it too. Jukka |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
> It would seem then that I've been preaching to the choir! ;-D Youp, but I don't know all about sushi so all hints are welcome. Jukka |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
"Warren" > wrote in message news  > You've all been pretty quiet lately. I've been swamped at work and haven't > had time to check in a few weeks (months) but you guys are usually pretty > chatty > > OB sushi stuff: > I've recently been told that most of what I know about hamachi is wrong, > and that we non Japanese folk are confusing Japanese Amberjack, Yellowtail > Amberjack, Almaco Jack, and greater Amberjack and confusing nomenclature > on them (hamachi/buri/hiramasa/hirenaga-kanpachi/kanpachi/kona). I'm > digging up all the info I can on this, but can anyone affirm that there is > some confusion outside Japan as the the real Japanese names for all these > fish and which fish they really are? > > and that "hamachi" is really Japanese Abmerjack and that Yellowtail > Amberjack is really "Hiramasa?" > > Thanks. > > While the exact species may differ, California Yellowtail (or a close relative) is called Buri. Buri is one of the fish species called Shusse-Uo (Fish that rises in rank) which means that different names for the same fish are used depending on size/age. Hamachi is one of the smaller sizes of Buri, originally a Kansai (western Japan) term. This term has been adopted by the fish farming industry as it is the size when Buri is harvested and shipped. That's why nearly all yellowtail served at the sushi counter is called Hamachi. Kanpachi is Amberjack. This photo shows a Hamachi (top) and Kanpachi (bottom) http://www.valenton.net/img/465.jpg Musashi |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
On Feb 10, 2:37*am, Armadillo > wrote:
> > You've all been pretty quiet lately. > > I'm personally somewhat lost interest in sushi since I'm stunned by what kind of crap they serve as sushi here in Helsinki, Finland. The best place is probably a small modest sushi bar Gyosai Sushi run by a Japanese itamae with his son. Nothing too fancy but at least they do not use rice molds for making 'kata'. > > So I've mostly made sushi at home. I've also promised to teach my 12 year old goddaughter how to make sushi. Making sushi here is a bit difficult since the variety of fish is somewhat limited and I've even quit buing tuna. But with trial and error I've managed for example to come up with just the right salt & vinegar treatment for baltic herring. I rather buy local fresh fish than frozen and imported. It is not authentic sushi I know but it is the best I can make here. Well, snobs may bitch about authentic sushi but just because Chop Suey isn't authentic Chinese doesn't mean it's not good. |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
>>It is not authentic sushi I know but it is the best I can make here. > > Well, snobs may bitch about authentic sushi but just because Chop Suey > isn't authentic Chinese doesn't mean it's not good. Yes, the authenticity in sushi is probaly more using fresh ingredients than using just specific type of fish. Jukka PS Don't like Chop Suey at all, though. ;-) |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Armadillo wrote on Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:18:49 +0200:
>>> It is not authentic sushi I know but it is the best I can >>> make here. >> >> Well, snobs may bitch about authentic sushi but just because >> Chop Suey isn't authentic Chinese doesn't mean it's not good. > Yes, the authenticity in sushi is probaly more using fresh > ingredients than using just specific type of fish. That's certainly the case, IMHO. There is a Chinese buffet restaurant around here that serves quite competently made sushi but the quality of the fish makes it inedible to me.The restaurant is not all bad for other things, especially its Dim Sum and made-to-order stir fries . Incidentally, tho' Chop Suey is one of the oldest American "Chinese" dishes, I've not seen it in many years. There are other dishes in that category that I see from time to time, like Chow Mein. -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:46:20 -0500, "James Silverton"
> wrote: > Incidentally, tho' Chop Suey is one of the oldest American "Chinese" > dishes, I've not seen it in many years. There are other dishes in that > category that I see from time to time, like Chow Mein. But unlike Chop Suey, Chow Mein is a real Chinese dish, not an "American Chinese" one. -- Ken Blake Please Reply to the Newsgroup |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Ken wrote on Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:59:51 -0700:
>> Incidentally, tho' Chop Suey is one of the oldest American >> "Chinese" dishes, I've not seen it in many years. There are >> other dishes in that category that I see from time to time, >> like Chow Mein. > But unlike Chop Suey, Chow Mein is a real Chinese dish, not an > "American Chinese" one. I think most would agree with you that "Chow Mein" just means "noodle dish" and originated in China but there's even evidence that Chop Suey, or something like it, was known in China. Anyway, why must a "Chinese" dish originate in China? Does originality stop when you get on a boat? Other "ethnic" foods almost certainly didn't begin in the country of origin of the cuisine. Are California Rolls not sushi and Balti Indian stir fry may have originated in Birmingham, England! -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
> Are California Rolls not sushi Definately not if mayo is used. But sometimes I make by request avocado & cold smoked salmon inside out rolls with toasted sesame seeds. (Slightly less greasy rainbow trout is probebly even better with avocado.) Jukka |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Armadillo wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:50:18 +0200:
>> Are California Rolls not sushi > Definately not if mayo is used. > But sometimes I make by request avocado & cold smoked salmon > inside out rolls with toasted sesame seeds. (Slightly less > greasy rainbow trout is probebly even better with avocado.) For purists, you can buy Japanese-made mayo. One brand is "Kewpie", I believe. Mayo is involved in "spicy tuna" rolls. -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
"James Silverton" > wrote:
> Ken wrote on Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:59:51 -0700: > > >> Incidentally, tho' Chop Suey is one of the oldest American > >> "Chinese" dishes, I've not seen it in many years. There are > >> other dishes in that category that I see from time to time, > >> like Chow Mein. > > > But unlike Chop Suey, Chow Mein is a real Chinese dish, not an > > "American Chinese" one. > > I think most would agree with you that "Chow Mein" just means "noodle > dish" and originated in China but there's even evidence that Chop Suey, > or something like it, was known in China. Anyway, why must a "Chinese" > dish originate in China? Does originality stop when you get on a boat? > Other "ethnic" foods almost certainly didn't begin in the country of > origin of the cuisine. Are California Rolls not sushi and Balti Indian > stir fry may have originated in Birmingham, England! Greatly oversimplified: Chow mein - crisp noodles; Lomein - soft noodles. -- Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061 |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
> For purists, you can buy Japanese-made mayo. One brand is "Kewpie", I > believe. Mayo is involved in "spicy tuna" rolls. Never thought that there is Japanese mayo but on the other hand Japanese have their version of just about anything. There is even a word マヨラー (mayora) for people who like mayo. Just checked that local Japanese store has Kewpie, also with wasabi and mustard flavor. But since I like to make my own mayo I have to find out the right ingredients. Jukka |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Nick wrote on 17 Feb 2009 17:39:42 GMT:
> "James Silverton" > wrote: >> Ken wrote on Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:59:51 -0700: >> > >>> Incidentally, tho' Chop Suey is one of the oldest American > >>> "Chinese" dishes, I've not seen it in many years. There > >>> are other dishes in that category that I see from time to > >>> time, like Chow Mein. >> > >> But unlike Chop Suey, Chow Mein is a real Chinese dish, not > >> an "American Chinese" one. >> >> I think most would agree with you that "Chow Mein" just means >> "noodle dish" and originated in China but there's even >> evidence that Chop Suey, or something like it, was known in >> China. Anyway, why must a "Chinese" dish originate in China? >> Does originality stop when you get on a boat? Other "ethnic" >> foods almost certainly didn't begin in the country of origin >> of the cuisine. Are California Rolls not sushi and Balti >> Indian stir fry may have originated in Birmingham, England! > Greatly oversimplified: Chow mein - crisp noodles; Lomein - soft > noodles. You're a bit overconfident. As I like it, "Chow Mein" involves *both* soft and crispy noodles and you will find recipes for making it with either or both on the web. -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
"James Silverton" > wrote:
> Nick wrote on 17 Feb 2009 17:39:42 GMT: > [ . . . ] > > Greatly oversimplified: Chow mein - crisp noodles; Lomein - soft > > noodles. > > You're a bit overconfident. As I like it, "Chow Mein" involves *both* > soft and crispy noodles and you will find recipes for making it with > either or both on the web. I don't know how you surmised "overconfident" from "greatly oversimplified", James, but, whatever. -- Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061 |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:45:44 -0500, "James Silverton"
> wrote: > Ken wrote on Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:59:51 -0700: > > >> Incidentally, tho' Chop Suey is one of the oldest American > >> "Chinese" dishes, I've not seen it in many years. There are > >> other dishes in that category that I see from time to time, > >> like Chow Mein. > > > But unlike Chop Suey, Chow Mein is a real Chinese dish, not an > > "American Chinese" one. > > I think most would agree with you that "Chow Mein" just means "noodle > dish" and originated in China but there's even evidence that Chop Suey, > or something like it, was known in China. Well, I don't pretend to be an expert on Chinese food, but as far as I know, it's very clear that Chop Suey originated in the USA, and Chow Mein originated in China. If there is or was something like Chop Suey in China, OK, but as far as I know, there has never been anything with that name. > Anyway, why must a "Chinese" > dish originate in China? I don't particularly care whether it does or not, but it was you, not me, who said that Chop Suey was an "American 'Chinese' dish" and that Chow Mein fell into the same category. I simply pointed out that Chow Mein was not in that "American 'Chinese' dish" category. > Does originality stop when you get on a boat? > Other "ethnic" foods almost certainly didn't begin in the country of > origin of the cuisine. Are California Rolls not sushi As far as I'm concerned, a California Roll is clearly an American Japanese dish, and it is also clearly sushi (although I personally am not fond of them and never order them. Actually I eat very few rolls, not even the ones that are clearly of Japanese origin. The only roll that I like enough to order often is a salmon skin hand roll. > and Balti Indian > stir fry may have originated in Birmingham, England! Sorry, I have no opinion on Balti Indian stir fry, since I've never had it and don't even know the name. -- Ken Blake Please Reply to the Newsgroup |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Nick wrote on 17 Feb 2009 20:10:06 GMT:
> "James Silverton" > wrote: >> Nick wrote on 17 Feb 2009 17:39:42 GMT: >> [ . . . ] > >> Greatly oversimplified: Chow mein - crisp noodles; Lomein - soft > >> noodles. >> >> You're a bit overconfident. As I like it, "Chow Mein" >> involves *both* soft and crispy noodles and you will find >> recipes for making it with either or both on the web. > I don't know how you surmised "overconfident" from "greatly > oversimplified", James, but, whatever. Sorry, I did not mean to sound indignant or start a fight but I would dispute your definition of "chow mein" as *currently* used :-) -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:51:26 -0700:
>> Ken wrote on Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:59:51 -0700: >> > >>> Incidentally, tho' Chop Suey is one of the oldest American > >>> "Chinese" dishes, I've not seen it in many years. There > >>> are other dishes in that category that I see from time to > >>> time, like Chow Mein. >> > >> But unlike Chop Suey, Chow Mein is a real Chinese dish, not > >> an "American Chinese" one. >> >> I think most would agree with you that "Chow Mein" just means >> "noodle dish" and originated in China but there's even >> evidence that Chop Suey, or something like it, was known in >> China. > Well, I don't pretend to be an expert on Chinese food, but as > far as I know, it's very clear that Chop Suey originated in > the USA, and Chow Mein originated in China. If there is or was > something like Chop Suey in China, OK, but as far as I know, > there has never been anything with that name. >> Anyway, why must a "Chinese" >> dish originate in China? > I don't particularly care whether it does or not, but it was > you, not me, who said that Chop Suey was an "American > 'Chinese' dish" and that Chow Mein fell into the same > category. I simply pointed out that Chow Mein was not in that > "American 'Chinese' dish" category. >> Does originality stop when you get on a boat? >> Other "ethnic" foods almost certainly didn't begin in the >> country of origin of the cuisine. Are California Rolls not >> sushi > As far as I'm concerned, a California Roll is clearly an > American Japanese dish, and it is also clearly sushi (although > I personally am not fond of them and never order them. > Actually I eat very few rolls, not even the ones that are > clearly of Japanese origin. The only roll that I like enough > to order often is a salmon skin hand roll. I may have mentioned previously that I heartily dislike salmon skin rolls, which to me are the quintessence of fishiness. I even had to eat the things politely on one occasion when the itamae told me that he had caught the salmon himself a day or two ago :-) Believe it or not, this was in Jasper, Canada. -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:08:14 -0500, "James Silverton"
> wrote: > Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:51:26 -0700: > > >> Ken wrote on Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:59:51 -0700: > >> > > >>> Incidentally, tho' Chop Suey is one of the oldest American > > >>> "Chinese" dishes, I've not seen it in many years. There > > >>> are other dishes in that category that I see from time to > > >>> time, like Chow Mein. > >> > > >> But unlike Chop Suey, Chow Mein is a real Chinese dish, not > > >> an "American Chinese" one. > >> > >> I think most would agree with you that "Chow Mein" just means > >> "noodle dish" and originated in China but there's even > >> evidence that Chop Suey, or something like it, was known in > >> China. > > > Well, I don't pretend to be an expert on Chinese food, but as > > far as I know, it's very clear that Chop Suey originated in > > the USA, and Chow Mein originated in China. If there is or was > > something like Chop Suey in China, OK, but as far as I know, > > there has never been anything with that name. > > >> Anyway, why must a "Chinese" > >> dish originate in China? > > > I don't particularly care whether it does or not, but it was > > you, not me, who said that Chop Suey was an "American > > 'Chinese' dish" and that Chow Mein fell into the same > > category. I simply pointed out that Chow Mein was not in that > > "American 'Chinese' dish" category. > > >> Does originality stop when you get on a boat? > >> Other "ethnic" foods almost certainly didn't begin in the > >> country of origin of the cuisine. Are California Rolls not > >> sushi > > > As far as I'm concerned, a California Roll is clearly an > > American Japanese dish, and it is also clearly sushi (although > > I personally am not fond of them and never order them. > > Actually I eat very few rolls, not even the ones that are > > clearly of Japanese origin. The only roll that I like enough > > to order often is a salmon skin hand roll. > > I may have mentioned previously that I heartily dislike salmon skin > rolls, which to me are the quintessence of fishiness. I even had to eat > the things politely on one occasion when the itamae told me that he had > caught the salmon himself a day or two ago :-) Believe it or not, this > was in Jasper, Canada. We all have different tastes, and that's fine. I was certainly not trying to persuade you to convert to my tastes. I was simply explaining that I personally don't much like sushi rolls--with the exception of that one--but that nevertheless, California rolls, although not Japanese sushi, are still sushi. -- Ken Blake Please Reply to the Newsgroup |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700:
> We all have different tastes, and that's fine. I was certainly > not trying to persuade you to convert to my tastes. I was > simply explaining that I personally don't much like sushi > rolls--with the exception of that one--but that nevertheless, > California rolls, although not Japanese sushi, are still > sushi. I've never been to Japan, tho I like sushi in general, with a few exceptions like salmon skin rolls and barbequed eel.. Do people eat California rolls in Japan? -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:30:35 -0500, "James Silverton"
> wrote: > Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: > > > > We all have different tastes, and that's fine. I was certainly > > not trying to persuade you to convert to my tastes. I was > > simply explaining that I personally don't much like sushi > > rolls--with the exception of that one--but that nevertheless, > > California rolls, although not Japanese sushi, are still > > sushi. > > I've never been to Japan, tho I like sushi in general, with a few > exceptions like salmon skin rolls and barbequed eel.. Do people eat > California rolls in Japan? I've only been in Japan once, in 1981, when I spent a week there. I had sushi every day while I was there. Alas, I don't remember for sure whether there were any California rolls available in Japan. I *think* not, but I don't want to say for sure anything I'm not sure of. Our tastes are clearly very different, by the way (and that's fine). Two of my favorite kinds of sushi are salmon skin rolls and unagi. The sushi I especially don't like are anything with cream cheese in it, and California rolls, or any kind of roll with the name of some other American place substituted for the word "California." In Philadelphia (and other USA places), you can get Philadelphia rolls, with smoked salmon and cream cheese; I think they're terrible. Here in Tucson, where I live, one can get "Tucson Rolls." I never order them, so can't remember the details of what they contain, but I hate them too. But then, once again, I'll repeat that I don't much like sushi rolls. I greatly prefer nigiri, and for some things like uni (one of my favorites), gunkanmaki. -- Ken Blake Please Reply to the Newsgroup |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Ken Blake > wrote:
> "James Silverton" > wrote: > > Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: > > > We all have different tastes, and that's fine. [ . . . ] "De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum." -- Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061 |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Nick wrote on 18 Feb 2009 11:16:15 GMT:
> Ken Blake > wrote: >> "James Silverton" > wrote: > >> Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: > > >> We all have different tastes, and that's fine. > [ . . . ] > "De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum." Oh absolutely! Mentioning differences is interesting but the *dispute* only occurs if someone expresses horror or scorn for other's tastes. -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Nick Cramer wrote:
> Ken Blake > wrote: > >>"James Silverton" > wrote: >> >>> Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: > > >>>>We all have different tastes, and that's fine. > > [ . . . ] > > "De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum." Speaking of which, we took my son out for his 7th birthday. Of course he wanted sushi.. He continues to impress the sushi chef that he (and my daughter) love ankimo and saba. This evening they had kohoada, and he liked that too. -- Dan |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Dan wrote on Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:21:49 -0500:
>> Ken Blake > wrote: >> >>> "James Silverton" > wrote: >>> >>>> Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: >> >>>>> We all have different tastes, and that's fine. >> >> [ . . . ] >> >> "De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum." > Speaking of which, we took my son out for his 7th birthday. > Of course he wanted sushi.. He continues to impress the sushi chef > that he (and my daughter) love ankimo and saba. This > evening they had kohoada, and he liked that too. I'm impressed especially if your kids know what those names mean, unlike me :-) -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
James Silverton wrote:
> Dan wrote on Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:21:49 -0500: > >>> Ken Blake > wrote: >>> >>>> "James Silverton" > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: >>> >>> >>>>>> We all have different tastes, and that's fine. >>> >>> >>> [ . . . ] >>> >>> "De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum." > > >> Speaking of which, we took my son out for his 7th birthday. >> Of course he wanted sushi.. He continues to impress the sushi chef >> that he (and my daughter) love ankimo and saba. This >> evening they had kohoada, and he liked that too. > > > I'm impressed especially if your kids know what those names mean, unlike > me :-) Well I think they know they like the food associated with the name. I don't know if they know what the English to Japanese translation is.. but I can check. -- Dan |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
"James Silverton" > wrote in message ... > Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: > > >> We all have different tastes, and that's fine. I was certainly >> not trying to persuade you to convert to my tastes. I was >> simply explaining that I personally don't much like sushi >> rolls--with the exception of that one--but that nevertheless, >> California rolls, although not Japanese sushi, are still >> sushi. > > I've never been to Japan, tho I like sushi in general, with a few > exceptions like salmon skin rolls and barbequed eel.. Do people eat > California rolls in Japan? > > Allow me to answer that James. California Rolls are considered "Amerian Sushi" and can be found in upscale contemporary cuisine restaurants in major cities. Although the average Japanese person probably has never tasted one, they will know it from coverage on TV shows and cooking magazines and such. I know of no traditional Sushi-Ya in Japan that serves California Rolls. I believe the reason isn't so much any particular resistance to something new as the lack of demand. The main feature about California Rolls that makes it stand out in Japan is that it is a Ura Maki (reverse roll) with the rice on the outside. The traditional Nori on the outside serves to permit eating a maki by hand, an impossibility with the California Roll. Musashi |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
> I'm impressed especially if your kids know what those names mean, unlike > me :-) Just took takeway sushi home to my 7 year old son who likes it very much. We rather go to our favorite sushi-ya. They have a big sushi poster with japanese names and he has learned some of them. At that age they learn things amazingly fast. Jukka |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Musashi wrote on Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:51:52 -0500:
> "James Silverton" > wrote in > message ... >> Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: >> >>> We all have different tastes, and that's fine. I was >>> certainly not trying to persuade you to convert to my >>> tastes. I was simply explaining that I personally don't much >>> like sushi rolls--with the exception of that one--but that >>> nevertheless, California rolls, although not Japanese sushi, >>> are still sushi. >> >> I've never been to Japan, tho I like sushi in general, with a >> few exceptions like salmon skin rolls and barbequed eel.. Do people >> eat California rolls in Japan? >> > Allow me to answer that James. California Rolls are considered > "Amerian Sushi" > and can be found in upscale contemporary cuisine restaurants > in major cities. > Although the average Japanese person probably has never tasted > one, they will know > it from coverage on TV shows and cooking magazines and such. > I know of no traditional Sushi-Ya in Japan that serves > California Rolls. I believe > the reason isn't so much any particular resistance to > something new as the lack of > demand. > The main feature about California Rolls that makes it stand > out in Japan is that it is > a Ura Maki (reverse roll) with the rice on the outside. The > traditional Nori on the outside > serves to permit eating a maki by hand, an impossibility with the > California Roll. I accept the comment about eating by hand but Japanese seem so quick to adopt new things that I am surprised that California rolls are not common, despite traditional purists. I recently came across another non-traditional (I think) variant where the California roll was also coated with Panko crumbs. The result was rather good but the Panko did not keep its crispness well.. I cannot bring myself to eat with my fingers since even quite good "Sushi-Ya" here are a bit ungenerous with napkins and finger bowls. I've mastered the technique of holding nigiri with chop sticks and dipping only the fish in soy sauce. Incidentally, a little while ago you told me about Chiken Katsu and, yesterday, I saw just that for sale at a Japanese place in a food court here -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
On Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:21:49 -0500, Dan Logcher
> wrote: > Nick Cramer wrote: > > > Ken Blake > wrote: > > > >>"James Silverton" > wrote: > >> > >>> Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: > > > > > >>>>We all have different tastes, and that's fine. > > > > [ . . . ] > > > > "De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum." > > Speaking of which, we took my son out for his 7th birthday. > Of course he wanted sushi.. He continues to impress the sushi chef > that he (and my daughter) love ankimo and saba. This evening they > had kohoada, and he liked that too. My son lives in Westchester County, NY, and every summer my wife and visit them at the time of our grandson's birthday. For several years now, we've taken him and his parents to Azuma Sushi, in Hartsdale, for his birthday. We'll be doing it again this August. He loves Azuma (as do I; it's a good a sushi bar as I've been to in anywhere in the USA), and he now manages to keep up with the adults, both in quantity and quality of what he eats. He's be 14 this August. -- Ken Blake Please Reply to the Newsgroup |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
Dan Logcher > wrote:
> Nick Cramer wrote: > > Ken Blake > wrote: > >>"James Silverton" > wrote: > >>> Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: > >>>>We all have different tastes, and that's fine. > > [ . . . ] > > "De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum." > > Speaking of which, we took my son out for his 7th birthday. > Of course he wanted sushi.. He continues to impress the sushi chef > that he (and my daughter) love ankimo and saba. This evening they > had kohoada, and he liked that too. Good lad, dad! Happy Birthday, youngster! Has he tried raw Kumamotos? Mmmm! -- Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061 |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
"Musashi" > wrote:
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message > [ . . . ] > > I've never been to Japan, tho I like sushi in general, with a few > > exceptions like salmon skin rolls and barbequed eel.. Do people eat > > California rolls in Japan? > Allow me to answer that James. California Rolls are considered "Amerian > Sushi" and can be found in upscale contemporary cuisine restaurants in > major cities. Although the average Japanese person probably has never > tasted one, they will know it from coverage on TV shows and cooking > magazines and such. I know of no traditional Sushi-Ya in Japan that > serves California Rolls. I believe the reason isn't so much any > particular resistance to something new as the lack of demand. The main > feature about California Rolls that makes it stand out in Japan is that > it is a Ura Maki (reverse roll) with the rice on the outside. The > traditional Nori on the outside serves to permit eating a maki by hand, > an impossibility with the California Roll. Do people eat Kai Ake (sp?) in Japan? -- Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061 |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
"James Silverton" > wrote in message ... > Musashi wrote on Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:51:52 -0500: > > >> "James Silverton" > wrote in >> message ... >>> Ken wrote on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700: >>> >>>> We all have different tastes, and that's fine. I was >>>> certainly not trying to persuade you to convert to my >>>> tastes. I was simply explaining that I personally don't much >>>> like sushi rolls--with the exception of that one--but that >>>> nevertheless, California rolls, although not Japanese sushi, >>>> are still sushi. >>> >>> I've never been to Japan, tho I like sushi in general, with a >>> few exceptions like salmon skin rolls and barbequed eel.. Do people eat >>> California rolls in Japan? >>> >> Allow me to answer that James. California Rolls are considered >> "Amerian Sushi" >> and can be found in upscale contemporary cuisine restaurants >> in major cities. >> Although the average Japanese person probably has never tasted >> one, they will know >> it from coverage on TV shows and cooking magazines and such. >> I know of no traditional Sushi-Ya in Japan that serves >> California Rolls. I believe >> the reason isn't so much any particular resistance to >> something new as the lack of >> demand. >> The main feature about California Rolls that makes it stand >> out in Japan is that it is >> a Ura Maki (reverse roll) with the rice on the outside. The >> traditional Nori on the outside >> serves to permit eating a maki by hand, an impossibility with the >> California Roll. > > I accept the comment about eating by hand but Japanese seem so quick to > adopt new things that I am surprised that California rolls are not common, > despite traditional purists. I recently came across another > non-traditional (I think) variant where the California roll was also > coated with Panko crumbs. The result was rather good but the Panko did not > keep its crispness well.. > California Rolls are not the only "new" types of sushi to be found. There are a handful of "fusion" type places that have created many new non-traditional sushi dishes. I've never seen Panko used and yes, I can see how the crispness would be lost over time. For Musubi(onigiri) I've seen in Japan the use of Tempura crumbs (tenkasu) which I find tasty even after they lose their cripsness. > I cannot bring myself to eat with my fingers since even quite good > "Sushi-Ya" here are a bit ungenerous with napkins and finger bowls. I've > mastered the technique of holding nigiri with chop sticks and dipping only > the fish in soy sauce. Sushi can be enjoyed using chopsticks or by hand. Knife and Fork is probably pushing it though. > Incidentally, a little while ago you told me about Chiken Katsu and, > yesterday, I saw just that for sale at a Japanese place in a food court > here You may want to give Chikin Katsu a try if you like that fried panko crunchiness. Besides Chikin Katsu, pork chop (ton katsu), butterflied shrimp (ebi furai) and fried oysters (kaki furai) all use Panko and are very good. Musashi |
|
Posted to alt.food.sushi
|
|||
|
|||
|
where is everyone?
"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message ... > "Musashi" > wrote: >> "James Silverton" > wrote in message >> [ . . . ] >> > I've never been to Japan, tho I like sushi in general, with a few >> > exceptions like salmon skin rolls and barbequed eel.. Do people eat >> > California rolls in Japan? > >> Allow me to answer that James. California Rolls are considered "Amerian >> Sushi" and can be found in upscale contemporary cuisine restaurants in >> major cities. Although the average Japanese person probably has never >> tasted one, they will know it from coverage on TV shows and cooking >> magazines and such. I know of no traditional Sushi-Ya in Japan that >> serves California Rolls. I believe the reason isn't so much any >> particular resistance to something new as the lack of demand. The main >> feature about California Rolls that makes it stand out in Japan is that >> it is a Ura Maki (reverse roll) with the rice on the outside. The >> traditional Nori on the outside serves to permit eating a maki by hand, >> an impossibility with the California Roll. > > Do people eat Kai Ake (sp?) in Japan? > I've never heard of Kai Ake Nick. Could you describe what it is? Musashi |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
![Warren[_7_] is offline](https://www.foodbanter.com/images/SultanThemeVB3R/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Linear Mode
