Hydration vs. Altitude: a challenging question
 

Greetings assembled gurus. I am here to seek knowledge.

I followed a SD recipe from the LA Times and I got virtually no oven
spring. The boules were wider than they were tall (barely 3" tall at
the center).

I spoke with a lady in a restaurant supply store who does a lot of
baking. She told me to do it again "with quite a bit less flour"
since I'm in Edmonton Alberta and the elevation is almost 2200 feet
(vs sea level for Los Angeles). When I followed her rather vague
instructions and used a higher hydration, I got much better results.

That leads me to a question: Has someone developed a spreadsheet or
an equation that can "transpose" a recipe from one elevation to
another? For example: let's say I get a recipe from The Arizona
Republic (Phoenix - at 1117 feet), and I want to convert it to work at
Edmonton, Alberta's elevation of 2200 feet, how much do I have to
adjust the hydration level to get the same results I'd get in Phoenix
using the stock recipe?

Anyone??

Hydration vs. Altitude: a challenging question
 

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:47:14 -0600, Mike Brown
> wrote:

>I followed a SD recipe from the LA Times and I got virtually no oven
>spring.


Howdy,

You may not have been happy with the shape of the loaves,
but why would you want to increase oven spring?

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Hydration vs. Altitude: a challenging question
 

Mike Brown wrote:
> Greetings assembled gurus. I am here to seek knowledge.
>
> I followed a SD recipe from the LA Times and I got virtually no oven
> spring. The boules were wider than they were tall (barely 3" tall at
> the center).
>
> I spoke with a lady in a restaurant supply store who does a lot of
> baking. She told me to do it again "with quite a bit less flour"
> since I'm in Edmonton Alberta and the elevation is almost 2200 feet
> (vs sea level for Los Angeles). When I followed her rather vague
> instructions and used a higher hydration, I got much better results.

More hydration = more steam = more oven spring, regardless of altitude.

Theoretically, at higher altitude loaves rise better because there's
less air pressure to counter the CO2 produced.

I don't think altitude is your problem. I'm at 4000 feet and have lived
up to 7000 feet and haven't had altitude issues with baking bread
recipes from sea level. Other factors are dominant: temperature,
hydration, dough development, etc.

And as you'll hear from this group no doubt, oven spring is not a goal
but a means. You may get well-formed loaves without it and you may get
poorly-formed loaves with it.

Hydration vs. Altitude: a challenging question
 

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:09:28 -0400, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:47:14 -0600, Mike Brown
> wrote:
>
>
>You may not have been happy with the shape of the loaves,
>but why would you want to increase oven spring?

I wasn't clear enough - sorry. When I said no oven spring, I was
referring to a lack of rising and extremely dense crumb - no
"fluffiness".

Also since I posted this (which I still think is a valid question)
I've begun to think that the folding method ("no knead") only works
well with higher hydration doughs and that lower hydration requires a
bit of good ol' kneading.

Hydration vs. Altitude: a challenging question
 

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:20:24 -0600, Hans Fugal > wrote:

>Mike Brown wrote:
>
>More hydration = more steam = more oven spring, regardless of altitude.
>
>Theoretically, at higher altitude loaves rise better because there's
>less air pressure to counter the CO2 produced.

I guess that makes sense. I was wondering what her rationale was. I
guess she gave the right advice (less flour) but for te wrong reason.

>I don't think altitude is your problem. I'm at 4000 feet and have lived
>up to 7000 feet and haven't had altitude issues with baking bread
>recipes from sea level. Other factors are dominant: temperature,
>hydration, dough development, etc.
>
>And as you'll hear from this group no doubt, oven spring is not a goal
>but a means. You may get well-formed loaves without it and you may get
>poorly-formed loaves with it.

Thanks, Hans. As I replied to Kenneth, I've begun to think that the
"folding" method doesn't produce enough gluten to capture the CO2, and
so doesn't produce rising as well as a kneaded dough.

I'm going to try it again, at the same hydration but kneading instead
of folding to see what happens. All part of the learning process, I
guess ;-)

BTW, Hans, I was using your starter -- thanks again; it's a real
performer

Mike

Hydration vs. Altitude: a challenging question
 

Mike Brown wrote:

> Thanks, Hans. As I replied to Kenneth, I've begun to think that the
> "folding" method doesn't produce enough gluten to capture the CO2, and
> so doesn't produce rising as well as a kneaded dough.

I find folding develops the gluten much more rapidly than kneading, but
I admit to an aversion to stiff doughs. I rarely go below 70%.