Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Not my bread, but someone on a forum I read posted a very nice photo:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/1437#comment-4353

Pretty impressive, though not sourdough.

--
Jeff

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Hello,

Am Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:38:34 -0500, schrieb "Jeff Miller"
>:

>Not my bread, but someone on a forum I read posted a very nice photo:
>http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/1437#comment-4353

I made one with sourdough today:
http://peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ci...d_bread_d.html

400 g dark wheat flour (Weizenmehl Type 1200 in Germany)
50 g liquid sourdough starter
1 1/2 ts salt
300 g water

first rise 14 hours.

-very nice dough, smaller holes than the original, very nice crust - I like
it a lot!

(Here ist the first loaf with yeast, following the NYT-recipe
http://peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ci...r_knetfau.html

400 g wheat flour (Weizenmehl Type 550 in Germany)
1/4 ts yeast
1 1/4 ts salt
390 g water

preheat oven to 515°F (270°C), when the pot with dough goes in reduce to
450°F (230°C)

- very sticky dough, large holes, very thick crust)

Next try will be with some rye flour and a little bit more water

Happy baking
Petra
--
Petra Holzapfel
www.kochkiste.de * Menüs für jede Jahreszeit * Backrezepte *
www.petras-brotkasten.de * Brotrezepte mit Fotos *
www.peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ciabatta * Mein Küchentagebuch *

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Hello Petra & all;

"Petra Holzapfel" > wrote in message
...
....
> I made one with sourdough today:
> http://peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ci...d_bread_d.html
Nice pix! I had fun reading your blog as well. I especially like the,
"Suppe mit Maronen und fruchtiger Salat". It's 'duck season' here.
Methinks I'm gonna make the time to make that tomorrow...if I can find a
stray "quacker"...(:-o)!

In any event, could you enlighten us to what you thought of the differences
between eating the sourdough vs. the yeast? Also, please keep us posted on
your rye flour progress. I've been making no-knead rye breads for some time
now, so I'm keenly interested in how others fare...


L8r all,
Dusty
....
> 400 g dark wheat flour (Weizenmehl Type 1200 in Germany)
> 50 g liquid sourdough starter
> 1 1/2 ts salt
> 300 g water
>
> first rise 14 hours.
....
> preheat oven to 515°F (270°C), when the pot with dough goes in reduce to
> 450°F (230°C)
....

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Hello Dusty,

Am Sat, 18 Nov 2006 12:19:57 -0800, schrieb "Baking&Cooking"
>:

>> I made one with sourdough today:
>> http://peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ci...d_bread_d.html

>Nice pix! I had fun reading your blog as well. I especially like the,
>"Suppe mit Maronen und fruchtiger Salat". It's 'duck season' here.

I'm glad you liked it :-)

>In any event, could you enlighten us to what you thought of the differences
>between eating the sourdough vs. the yeast?

The taste is different: the sourdough loaves have a distinct sour taste
which isn't surprising ;-). Next attempt will be with a stiff starter.

Greetings from Germany
Petra, having already made her "thanksgiving turkey" last weekend.
--
Petra Holzapfel
www.kochkiste.de * Menüs für jede Jahreszeit * Backrezepte *
www.petras-brotkasten.de * Brotrezepte mit Fotos *
www.peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ciabatta * Mein Küchentagebuch *

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Petra Holzapfel wrote:

> I made one with sourdough today:
> http://peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ci...d_bread_d.html
>
> 400 g dark wheat flour (Weizenmehl Type 1200 in Germany)
> 50 g liquid sourdough starter
> 1 1/2 ts salt
> 300 g water

A few minutes ago I prepared this dough, using freshly ground wheat flour
(this summer I purchased a Fidibus Classic [¹] mill). I'm not very good
at German, and the original NYT article is no longer available, but it seems
that I have to bake the bread in a cast iron pot? I do not have such a pot,
can I just bake the bread on a normal baking plate? Or perhaps I could use
a cast iron frying pan although it's less than 1" deep. What do you think?

I'm looking forward to bake the bread in the morning. :)

Cheers,
Klaus.

[¹] http://xrl.us/fidibus (short link to top-getreidemuehlen.de)
--
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
http://klaus.seistrup.dk/

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
>
> A few minutes ago I prepared this dough, using freshly ground wheat flour
> (this summer I purchased a Fidibus Classic [¹] mill). I'm not very good
> at German, and the original NYT article is no longer available, but it seems
> that I have to bake the bread in a cast iron pot? I do not have such a pot,
> can I just bake the bread on a normal baking plate? Or perhaps I could use
> a cast iron frying pan although it's less than 1" deep. What do you think?
>
I was able to see the original article earlier today, but now it seems
to be in the premium service section where you have to subscribe.

However, the video is still available as I type this. Look at: at
*http://tinyurl.com/ym53tc *to see the video.

In any case, the recipe does not require a dutch oven or cast iron. The
people said that Pyrex would work as well. Pyrex is quite resistant to
thermal shock... though not always physical shock. I'll be using Pyrex
for my first trial in the morning.

Also, I used Harvest King and found that I had about 66% hydration...
considerably lower than most of the other posters. We'll see how it
turns out tomorrow.

Mike

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 23:33:13 -0700, Mike Avery
> wrote:

>Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
>>
>> A few minutes ago I prepared this dough, using freshly ground wheat flour
>> (this summer I purchased a Fidibus Classic [¹] mill). I'm not very good
>> at German, and the original NYT article is no longer available, but it seems
>> that I have to bake the bread in a cast iron pot? I do not have such a pot,
>> can I just bake the bread on a normal baking plate? Or perhaps I could use
>> a cast iron frying pan although it's less than 1" deep. What do you think?

<snip>

>In any case, the recipe does not require a dutch oven or cast iron. The
>people said that Pyrex would work as well. Pyrex is quite resistant to
>thermal shock... though not always physical shock. I'll be using Pyrex
>for my first trial in the morning.

Yeah, I use a soup pot with foil covering it. It's really not
important that you use anything special, just something that will take
the heat of the oven.

Serene
--
"I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.

http://serenejournal.livejournal.com

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Mike Avery wrote:

> I was able to see the original article earlier today, but now
> it seems to be in the premium service section where you have
> to subscribe.

I found a copy of the article text at Google Groups

> However, the video is still available as I type this. Look
> at: at *http://tinyurl.com/ym53tc *to see the video.

Thanks a lot, now I have a much better idea of the whole thing.

> In any case, the recipe does not require a dutch oven or cast
> iron. The people said that Pyrex would work as well.

Right, I'll try using a pyrex pot for my first attempt. Meanwhile
I'll keep an eye open for a cheap cast iron thing (Le Creuchet is
much too expensive for this, methinks).

The dought has to sit for another 3 hours, or so, I can hardly
wait...

Cheers,

--
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
http://klaus.seistrup.dk/

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Mike Avery wrote:

> I was able to see the original article earlier today, but now
> it seems to be in the premium service section where you have
> to subscribe.

I found a copy of the article text at Google Groups

> However, the video is still available as I type this. Look
> at: at *http://tinyurl.com/ym53tc *to see the video.

Thanks a lot, now I have a much better idea of the whole thing.

> In any case, the recipe does not require a dutch oven or cast
> iron. The people said that Pyrex would work as well.

Right, I'll try using a pyrex pot for my first attempt. Meanwhile
I'll keep an eye open for a cheap cast iron thing (Le Creuchet is
much too expensive for this, methinks).

The dough has to sit for another 3 hours, or so, I can hardly wait...

Cheers,

--
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
http://klaus.seistrup.dk/

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Hello Klaus,

Am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:02:20 +0000 (UTC), schrieb Klaus Alexander Seistrup
>:

>> I made one with sourdough today:
>> http://peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ci...d_bread_d.html

>
>A few minutes ago I prepared this dough, using freshly ground wheat flour
>(this summer I purchased a Fidibus Classic [¹] mill). I'm not very good
>at German, and the original NYT article is no longer available, but it seems
>that I have to bake the bread in a cast iron pot? I do not have such a pot,
>can I just bake the bread on a normal baking plate?

For the first 30 minutes the bread should be baked in a hot closed pot with
a lid so that the steam from the bread stays inside. You can also use a
pyrex (glas) pan with a lid as you can see he
http://www.foolforfood.de/index.php/...2/p416#more416
or a clay pot (Römertopf), but here it seems that the bread sometimes
doesn't get brown evenly.

Good luck
Petra, also baking bread today
--
Petra Holzapfel
www.kochkiste.de * Menüs für jede Jahreszeit * Backrezepte *
www.petras-brotkasten.de * Brotrezepte mit Fotos *
www.peho.typepad.com/chili_und_ciabatta * Mein Küchentagebuch *

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Petra Holzapfel wrote:

> For the first 30 minutes the bread should be baked in a hot
> closed pot with a lid so that the steam from the bread stays
> inside. You can also use a pyrex (glas) pan with a lid as
> you can see he
> http://www.foolforfood.de/index.php/...2/p416#more416

I found a nice iron cast thing in IKEA: http://xrl.us/senior3l (short
link to IKEA.dk), that I hope will work.

I believe the dough (400 g freshly ground wheat, 300 mL water and
50 g barm) is a tad too liquid. It looked fine right after mixing
the dough, but it appeared much more liquid after 12 hours. Next
time I think I will use a little more flour (or less water). Could
the reason be that I'm using whole wheat?

Cheers,
Klaus.

--
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
http://klaus.seistrup.dk/

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Mike Avery skrev:

> I was able to see the original article earlier today, but now
> it seems to be in the premium service section where you have
> to subscribe.

A poster in dk.kultur.mad+drikke (Danish Usenet group for food and
recipe related topics) found the article at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/di...6d8a&ei= 5070

My oven is approaching 275 °C and I'm getting ready for the show. :)

Cheers,

--
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
http://klaus.seistrup.dk/

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:36:17 -0800, Serene
> wrote:

>Yeah, I use a soup pot with foil covering it. It's really not
>important that you use anything special, just something that will take
>the heat of the oven.

Howdy,

I believe that the idea of the cast iron was to provide a
significant thermal mass as well as containing the dough.

I suspect that using a lighter material for the container
would produce different results.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
> Petra Holzapfel wrote:
>
>> For the first 30 minutes the bread should be baked in a hot
>> closed pot with a lid so that the steam from the bread stays
>> inside. You can also use a pyrex (glas) pan with a lid as
>> you can see he
>> http://www.foolforfood.de/index.php/...2/p416#more416
>
> I found a nice iron cast thing in IKEA: http://xrl.us/senior3l (short
> link to IKEA.dk), that I hope will work.
>
> I believe the dough (400 g freshly ground wheat, 300 mL water and
> 50 g barm) is a tad too liquid. It looked fine right after mixing
> the dough, but it appeared much more liquid after 12 hours. Next
> time I think I will use a little more flour (or less water). Could
> the reason be that I'm using whole wheat?

Whole Wheat generally absorbs more liquid. However if you're measuring
by volume you might be getting less flour depending on how finely ground
it is and a bunch of other factors. But you said 400g so I'll assume
you're weighing. 300/400 is 3/4 is 75% hydration. I'm not sure what barm
is, but if it's a higher-than-dough-hydration start you're pushing the
hydration a little higher even. That should work for the recipe, and yes
it does feel rather liquid. But if it's too liquid for you, just adjust
it. It'll still work just fine. I've been aiming for 72% hydration and
that works well for me.

I did some empirical testing recently and I get about 150g of AP flour
per cup, and about 130-140g WW flour per cup. So 3 cups flour and 1.5
cups water is about 79% and 1 5/8 cups water brings it up to 85%.

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Hans Fugal wrote:

> I did some empirical testing recently and I get about 150g of AP flour
> per cup, and about 130-140g WW flour per cup. So 3 cups flour and 1.5
> cups water is about 79% and 1 5/8 cups water brings it up to 85%.

Hi Hans,

I'm told that a standard measure for AP flour is 120g / cup and you
need to fluff the dough to get it to that density. It does exemplify
the non standard nature of measuring by cups.

I get 155g

Jim

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

TG wrote:
> Hans Fugal wrote:
>
>> I did some empirical testing recently and I get about 150g of AP flour
>> per cup, and about 130-140g WW flour per cup. So 3 cups flour and 1.5
>> cups water is about 79% and 1 5/8 cups water brings it up to 85%.
>
> Hi Hans,
>
> I'm told that a standard measure for AP flour is 120g / cup and you
> need to fluff the dough to get it to that density. It does exemplify
> the non standard nature of measuring by cups.
>
> I get 155g
>
> Jim
>

Then 3 cups would be 360 and 1.5 cups water would give you a 99%
hydration batter. :-) I'm pretty sure he wasn't aiming at that.

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Hans Fugal wrote:

> Whole Wheat generally absorbs more liquid. However if you're
> measuring by volume you might be getting less flour depending
> on how finely ground it is and a bunch of other factors.

> But you said 400g so I'll assume you're weighing.

Yes, I took 400 g whole wheat kernels that I ground, then mixed with
300 g water (I wrote 300 mL, but I actually did weigh the water, too),
the starter and some salt.

> 300/400 is 3/4 is 75% hydration. I'm not sure what barm is,
> but if it's a higher-than-dough-hydration start you're pushing
> the hydration a little higher even.

My starter had a hydration of more than 100%, so yes, the final dough
would end up at more than 75%. Right after mixing the dough wasn't
runny at all, but it certainly was after souring. I will aim at 72%
next time.

After all the hype I was a little disappointed with the bread. The
crust was too strong, but I started out at 275°C (527°F), so I'll
probably reduce the heat next time. Also, the bread didn't rise as
much as I'd anticipated, so I'll probably let it sit for less than
12 hours next time -- judging from the look of the dough when I got
up this morning, I'd say that 8 or at most 10 hours would be
sufficient, but of course it also depends on factors like the room
temperature. The bread came out pretty dense, and very sour (at
first I didn't like it, but after a few slices the tang became
addictive).

Surprisingly, the bread was very dark. If it weren't for the taste,
people would probably believe it if I said it's a rye bread. It was
dark brown.

To summarize: Next time I want a less dens bread with a thinner crust,
so I'll use a hydration of 72%, start out with less heat (say 260°C
(500°F)), and perhaps use a mixture of whole wheat and sifted wheat.
Also, I think I would like a little butter in the bread (or maybe I'll
just use full cream milk instead of water). There are lots of factors
to play with, and I'm pretty optimistic. :)

Cheers,
Klaus.

--
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
http://klaus.seistrup.dk/

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
>
> I found a nice iron cast thing in IKEA: http://xrl.us/senior3l (short
> link to IKEA.dk), that I hope will work.

For those of us who can't afford the shipping from Denmark, here's a
link to the IKEA US page: http://tinyurl.com/ymxdoc
Pretty nice, for $50!

Dave

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Dave Bell wrote:

> Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
>
>>
>> I found a nice iron cast thing in IKEA: http://xrl.us/senior3l (short
>> link to IKEA.dk), that I hope will work.
>
>
> For those of us who can't afford the shipping from Denmark, here's a
> link to the IKEA US page: http://tinyurl.com/ymxdoc
> Pretty nice, for $50/$60 (3 qt/5 qt)

Question for Klaus: Is that cast iron casserole round or oval?
The listed dimensions show different length and width, but the
difference might simply account for the handles.

Dave

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Dave Bell wrote:

>> link to the IKEA US page: http://tinyurl.com/ymxdoc
>> Pretty nice, for $50/$60 (3 qt/5 qt)
>
> Question for Klaus: Is that cast iron casserole round or oval?
> The listed dimensions show different length and width, but the
> difference might simply account for the handles.

The 3 L thing that I bought is perfectly round and the longer dimension,
as you suggest, includes the handles. The 5 L pot, however, is oval in
design.

I'm not sure I'm fond about the colour of these casseroles, but I do like
that they are all cast iron, there are no synthetic or wooden handles, so
they are oven-safe.

Cheers,

--
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
http://klaus.seistrup.dk/

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:

> Dave Bell wrote:
>
>
>>>link to the IKEA US page: http://tinyurl.com/ymxdoc
>>>Pretty nice, for $50/$60 (3 qt/5 qt)
>>
>>Question for Klaus: Is that cast iron casserole round or oval?
>>The listed dimensions show different length and width, but the
>>difference might simply account for the handles.
>
>
> The 3 L thing that I bought is perfectly round and the longer dimension,
> as you suggest, includes the handles. The 5 L pot, however, is oval in
> design.

Thanks! The oval could be fine, too, giving a laof with more equal
slices...


> I'm not sure I'm fond about the colour of these casseroles, but I do like
> that they are all cast iron, there are no synthetic or wooden handles, so
> they are oven-safe.

That's what I was thinking, too. Not really cheap, but a lot less than
the fancy French ones!

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 20:35:25 GMT, Dave Bell
> wrote:

>Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
>
>> Dave Bell wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>link to the IKEA US page: http://tinyurl.com/ymxdoc
>>>>Pretty nice, for $50/$60 (3 qt/5 qt)
>>>
>>>Question for Klaus: Is that cast iron casserole round or oval?
>>>The listed dimensions show different length and width, but the
>>>difference might simply account for the handles.
>>
>>
>> The 3 L thing that I bought is perfectly round and the longer dimension,
>> as you suggest, includes the handles. The 5 L pot, however, is oval in
>> design.
>
>Thanks! The oval could be fine, too, giving a laof with more equal
>slices...
>
>
>> I'm not sure I'm fond about the colour of these casseroles, but I do like
>> that they are all cast iron, there are no synthetic or wooden handles, so
>> they are oven-safe.
>
>That's what I was thinking, too. Not really cheap, but a lot less than
>the fancy French ones!


You can get plain old cast iron Dutch ovens, too. Any camping supply
store will have them, as will even places like Target in the US.

Boron

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 08:16:25 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:36:17 -0800, Serene
> wrote:
>
>>Yeah, I use a soup pot with foil covering it. It's really not
>>important that you use anything special, just something that will take
>>the heat of the oven.
>
>Howdy,
>
>I believe that the idea of the cast iron was to provide a
>significant thermal mass as well as containing the dough.
>
>I suspect that using a lighter material for the container
>would produce different results.

My soup pot is fairly heavy, and the bread turns out really well, so
I'm not worrying about it.

Serene
--
"I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.

http://serenejournal.livejournal.com

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Boron Elgar wrote:

> You can get plain old cast iron Dutch ovens, too. Any camping supply
> store will have them, as will even places like Target in the US.

Surprisingly, decent bare cast iron is almost as expensive here, and my
local Target hasn't a damn thing in iron, or anything else heavy.

I used a thrift store crockpot liner for the last couple of loaves, but
they really didn't come out with the crispy crust I got from a heavy
aluminum pot. That pot is too large diameter, to get a high loaf, and I
don't want to submit my teflon lining to too much wear and tear...

Dave

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 21:59:59 GMT, Dave Bell
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> You can get plain old cast iron Dutch ovens, too. Any camping supply
>> store will have them, as will even places like Target in the US.
>
>Surprisingly, decent bare cast iron is almost as expensive here, and my
>local Target hasn't a damn thing in iron, or anything else heavy.
>
>I used a thrift store crockpot liner for the last couple of loaves, but
>they really didn't come out with the crispy crust I got from a heavy
>aluminum pot. That pot is too large diameter, to get a high loaf, and I
>don't want to submit my teflon lining to too much wear and tear...
>
>Dave


Ah...I see from Target's web pages that they only have them online.

http://tinyurl.com/w5dtp

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B00063RWYI

$29.99 for a 5 qt.

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Boron Elgar wrote:

> $29.99 for a 5 qt.

Wow, nice price!

Cheers,

--
Klaus Alexander Seistrup
http://klaus.seistrup.dk/

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Boron Elgar wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 21:59:59 GMT, Dave Bell
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You can get plain old cast iron Dutch ovens, too. Any camping supply
>>>store will have them, as will even places like Target in the US.
>>
>>Surprisingly, decent bare cast iron is almost as expensive here, and my
>>local Target hasn't a damn thing in iron, or anything else heavy.
>>
>>I used a thrift store crockpot liner for the last couple of loaves, but
>>they really didn't come out with the crispy crust I got from a heavy
>>aluminum pot. That pot is too large diameter, to get a high loaf, and I
>>don't want to submit my teflon lining to too much wear and tear...
>>
>>Dave
>
>
>
> Ah...I see from Target's web pages that they only have them online.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/w5dtp
>
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B00063RWYI
>
> $29.99 for a 5 qt.

.... plus shipping! I can drive to IKEA.
(Of course, 30-35 mi round-trip at today's gas prices might be more than
shipping!)

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 05:52:28 GMT, Dave Bell
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 21:59:59 GMT, Dave Bell
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You can get plain old cast iron Dutch ovens, too. Any camping supply
>>>>store will have them, as will even places like Target in the US.
>>>
>>>Surprisingly, decent bare cast iron is almost as expensive here, and my
>>>local Target hasn't a damn thing in iron, or anything else heavy.
>>>
>>>I used a thrift store crockpot liner for the last couple of loaves, but
>>>they really didn't come out with the crispy crust I got from a heavy
>>>aluminum pot. That pot is too large diameter, to get a high loaf, and I
>>>don't want to submit my teflon lining to too much wear and tear...
>>>
>>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> Ah...I see from Target's web pages that they only have them online.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/w5dtp
>>
>> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B00063RWYI
>>
>> $29.99 for a 5 qt.
>
>... plus shipping! I can drive to IKEA.
>(Of course, 30-35 mi round-trip at today's gas prices might be more than
>shipping!)


Cabelas carries cast iron, as do a lot of hardware, outdoor, scouting
and camping suppliers. Make a couple of phone calls to find out what's
available. It'll save you gas and shipping.

Boron

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
> Hans Fugal wrote:
>
>> Whole Wheat generally absorbs more liquid. However if you're
>> measuring by volume you might be getting less flour depending
>> on how finely ground it is and a bunch of other factors.
>
>> But you said 400g so I'll assume you're weighing.
>
> Yes, I took 400 g whole wheat kernels that I ground, then mixed with
> 300 g water (I wrote 300 mL, but I actually did weigh the water, too),
> the starter and some salt.
>
>> 300/400 is 3/4 is 75% hydration. I'm not sure what barm is,
>> but if it's a higher-than-dough-hydration start you're pushing
>> the hydration a little higher even.
>
> My starter had a hydration of more than 100%, so yes, the final dough
> would end up at more than 75%. Right after mixing the dough wasn't
> runny at all, but it certainly was after souring. I will aim at 72%
> next time.
>
> After all the hype I was a little disappointed with the bread. The
> crust was too strong, but I started out at 275°C (527°F), so I'll
> probably reduce the heat next time. Also, the bread didn't rise as
> much as I'd anticipated, so I'll probably let it sit for less than
> 12 hours next time -- judging from the look of the dough when I got
> up this morning, I'd say that 8 or at most 10 hours would be
> sufficient, but of course it also depends on factors like the room
> temperature. The bread came out pretty dense, and very sour (at
> first I didn't like it, but after a few slices the tang became
> addictive).
>
> Surprisingly, the bread was very dark. If it weren't for the taste,
> people would probably believe it if I said it's a rye bread. It was
> dark brown.
>
> To summarize: Next time I want a less dens bread with a thinner crust,
> so I'll use a hydration of 72%, start out with less heat (say 260°C
> (500°F)), and perhaps use a mixture of whole wheat and sifted wheat.
> Also, I think I would like a little butter in the bread (or maybe I'll
> just use full cream milk instead of water). There are lots of factors
> to play with, and I'm pretty optimistic. :)

The hype was mostly about white flour, and although Bittman said it was
good for whole wheat too, there's a lot more factors in play with whole
wheat bread. I think you're good to be optimistic. I haven't tried it
with both sourdough and WW yet, partly because I predict it will be more
sour than I want. (BTW when I speak of "it" I'm mostly talking about the
wet dough with loong first rise, I don't care for the floured towel and
I bake it how I always do)

When you say the bread didn't rise as much as you'd anticipated, do you
mean it didn't rise as fast as you anticipated? Even the 1/4 tsp bakers
yeast recipe takes a good 2-3 hours to rise again after the stretch and
shape. The sourdough doesn't seem to take any longer, though. At least,
not the start I have which is fairly vigorous. How does the dough feel?
Is it so wet that it can't rise? Is it elastic and able to grow? My 72%
boule the other day actually rose vertically instead of spreading as
usually happens to me. Maybe it was just too wet and unable to maintain
structure.

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

In article >, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 05:52:28 GMT, Dave Bell
> > wrote:
>
> >Boron Elgar wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 21:59:59 GMT, Dave Bell
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Boron Elgar wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>You can get plain old cast iron Dutch ovens, too. Any camping supply
> >>>>store will have them, as will even places like Target in the US.
> >>>
> >>>Surprisingly, decent bare cast iron is almost as expensive here, and my
> >>>local Target hasn't a damn thing in iron, or anything else heavy.
> >>>
> >>>I used a thrift store crockpot liner for the last couple of loaves, but
> >>>they really didn't come out with the crispy crust I got from a heavy
> >>>aluminum pot. That pot is too large diameter, to get a high loaf, and I
> >>>don't want to submit my teflon lining to too much wear and tear...
> >>>
> >>>Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ah...I see from Target's web pages that they only have them online.
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/w5dtp
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...f=sr_1_3/602-5
> >> 733602-5955814?ie=UTF8&asin=B00063RWYI
> >>
> >> $29.99 for a 5 qt.
> >
> >... plus shipping! I can drive to IKEA.
> >(Of course, 30-35 mi round-trip at today's gas prices might be more than
> >shipping!)
>
>
> Cabelas carries cast iron, as do a lot of hardware, outdoor, scouting
> and camping suppliers. Make a couple of phone calls to find out what's
> available. It'll save you gas and shipping.
>
> Boron


I recently bought a Lodge 5 quart cast iron dutch oven from Amazon.
29.99. Free shipping. No tax

http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Logic-Pr...dles/dp/B00063
RWYI/sr=8-4/qid=1164399235/ref=sr_1_4/002-5861638-4432009?ie=UTF8&s=home-
garden

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

> I recently bought a Lodge 5 quart cast iron dutch oven from Amazon.
> 29.99. Free shipping. No tax
>
I also found a good deal - $16.99 (+ tax and driving there) for a 4
quart Texsport cast iron dutch oven at a local sporting goods store.
It was still coated with gunk from casting so it was some effort to
clean up and season, but once that was done it made great bread the
first time. They also have a 2 quart model for about $12.

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread + PYREX
 

I am having a very good time using a Chicken Roaster ensemble from
PYREX I brought by chance recently

http://www.arc-international-cookwar...egorie&debut=0

using with the deep side down as opposed to how shown above

produces a quite convenient large rounded corner rectangular loaf,
gives at least some spring from base which I have neaver really managed
in my domestic gas oven before, despite various experiments with pizza
stones and bricks - so I assume doing more or less same job as cast
iron pot in terms of heat retention. And of course has the added
benefit of being able to see what is happening before removing the lid
(+ much less expensive than La Creuset etc)

also the loaf comes out so cleanly after (without any greasing
beforehand) that I am not even having to wash this between bakes.

yours
andy forbes


Dave Bell wrote:
> Dave Bell wrote:
>
> > Klaus Alexander Seistrup wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I found a nice iron cast thing in IKEA: http://xrl.us/senior3l (short
> >> link to IKEA.dk), that I hope will work.
> >
> >
> > For those of us who can't afford the shipping from Denmark, here's a
> > link to the IKEA US page: http://tinyurl.com/ymxdoc
> > Pretty nice, for $50/$60 (3 qt/5 qt)
>
> Question for Klaus: Is that cast iron casserole round or oval?
> The listed dimensions show different length and width, but the
> difference might simply account for the handles.
>
> Dave

NYTimes no-knead bread -- thread running down
 

"atty" > wrote in message ps.com...

> I am having a very good time using a Chicken Roaster ensemble from
> PYREX ... I assume doing more or less same job as cast
> iron pot in terms of heat retention.

Doubtful, glass being a relatively poor conductor and retainer of heat.


"atty" > wrote in message ups.com...

> in ... http://www.insecula.com/us/oeuvre/ph...000027177.html
> the two women kneeling at the back do indeed look to be kneading though
> alternately can be interpreted as grinding ...

or alternatively the two women could be two eunuchs. How would'ja know?


"Hans Fugal" > wrote in message ...

> Incidentally my oven is generally 25F cooler than the dial says. If
> you're going to be fastidious make sure you have a $5 oven thermometer too.

Fastidious with a $5 thermometer? Hans Frugal?

"Leila" > wrote in message ps.com...

> The Tabbouli King passed away, sadly, on 9/28/06, lung
> cancer (he never smoked).

And, indeed, as far as it is known, the Tabbouli King never posted
off-topic at r.f.s.


"Mary Fisher" > wrote in message t...

> > ... there's paintings and statues of Egyptians kneading bread ...

> Movies?

Excellent idea! Why not movies?

LOL!
--
Dicky

Photo of NYTimes no-knead bread
 

G'day all;

"TG" > wrote in message
ups.com...
....
> I'm told that a standard measure for AP flour is 120g / cup and you
> need to fluff the dough to get it to that density. It does exemplify
> the non standard nature of measuring by cups.
No. It exemplifies the non-standard nature of granular density, and it's
hand-maidens: packing and settling--as opposed to the non-standard nature of
absorption and ancillary hold.

> I get 155g
As do I--although, depending on the flour, I most often get a little bit
less...


L8r all,
Dusty
....

NYTimes no-knead bread -- thread running down
 

Dick Adams wrote:

> "Hans Fugal" > wrote in message ...
>
>> Incidentally my oven is generally 25F cooler than the dial says. If
>> you're going to be fastidious make sure you have a $5 oven thermometer too.
>
> Fastidious with a $5 thermometer? Hans Frugal?

Quite. If one must be fastidious, a $5 thermometer would seem like a
minimum investment.