I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by putting
the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The result is
what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite along
with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold and
rack.

1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?

2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?



Thanks in advance for any help

WD

WD,
It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two things.
If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_ filter
that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.

If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile' filter
it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is possible.


I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add sorbate
since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a hand
grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form in
the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most can't.
If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small scale
winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days at
least to ensure it is still and bottle.

Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you are
not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just bottling
and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough to
keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually served
cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate, just
keep it cold.

Joe

Kiva wrote:
> I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by
putting
> the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The
result is
> what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite
along
> with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold
and
> rack.
>
> 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
>
> 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
>
> WD

Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on the
clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will you be
stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and then
Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great hurry
and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out faster the
second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering and limit
the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way make sure
your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont have
another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron eliminating a
fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around in a
carboy before bottling it later.HTH
John Dixon
"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> WD,
> It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two things.
> If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_ filter
> that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
>
> If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile' filter
> it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
> take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
> clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is possible.
>
>
> I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add sorbate
> since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a hand
> grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form in
> the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most can't.
> If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small scale
> winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days at
> least to ensure it is still and bottle.
>
> Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you are
> not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just bottling
> and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough to
> keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually served
> cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate, just
> keep it cold.
>
> Joe
>
> Kiva wrote:
> > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by
> putting
> > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The
> result is
> > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite
> along
> > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold
> and
> > rack.
> >
> > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
> >
> > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help
> >
> > WD
>

The filter is the fine filter for the Buon Super Jet. I know that it is not
sterile. That is why I am adding sorbate. The wine is Very clear now and
still. I plan to bulk age a few more months. I have sulphite levels up now.
I plan to add aprox two tsp. of sobate to each 5gal carboy. The question is
when. before or after I filter?

Wd


"J Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on the
> clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will you
> be
> stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and then
> Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great hurry
> and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out faster the
> second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering and
> limit
> the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way make
> sure
> your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont have
> another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron eliminating
> a
> fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around in a
> carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> John Dixon
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> WD,
>> It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two things.
>> If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_ filter
>> that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
>>
>> If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile' filter
>> it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
>> take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
>> clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is possible.
>>
>>
>> I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add sorbate
>> since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a hand
>> grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form in
>> the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most can't.
>> If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small scale
>> winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days at
>> least to ensure it is still and bottle.
>>
>> Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you are
>> not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just bottling
>> and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough to
>> keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually served
>> cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate, just
>> keep it cold.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Kiva wrote:
>> > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by
>> putting
>> > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The
>> result is
>> > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite
>> along
>> > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold
>> and
>> > rack.
>> >
>> > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
>> >
>> > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for any help
>> >
>> > WD
>>
>
>

Wd, I would sorbate now, and filter before you bottle to limit your handling
if you intend to let it bulk age another 2 months.
John Dixon
"Kiva" > wrote in message
...
> The filter is the fine filter for the Buon Super Jet. I know that it is
not
> sterile. That is why I am adding sorbate. The wine is Very clear now and
> still. I plan to bulk age a few more months. I have sulphite levels up
now.
> I plan to add aprox two tsp. of sobate to each 5gal carboy. The question
is
> when. before or after I filter?
>
> Wd
>
>
> "J Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on
the
> > clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will you
> > be
> > stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and then
> > Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great
hurry
> > and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out faster
the
> > second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering and
> > limit
> > the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way make
> > sure
> > your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont have
> > another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron
eliminating
> > a
> > fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around in a
> > carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> > John Dixon
> > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> >> WD,
> >> It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two things.
> >> If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_ filter
> >> that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
> >>
> >> If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile' filter
> >> it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
> >> take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
> >> clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is possible.
> >>
> >>
> >> I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add sorbate
> >> since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a hand
> >> grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form in
> >> the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most can't.
> >> If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small scale
> >> winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days at
> >> least to ensure it is still and bottle.
> >>
> >> Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you are
> >> not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just bottling
> >> and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough to
> >> keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually served
> >> cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate, just
> >> keep it cold.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> Kiva wrote:
> >> > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by
> >> putting
> >> > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The
> >> result is
> >> > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite
> >> along
> >> > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold
> >> and
> >> > rack.
> >> >
> >> > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
> >> >
> >> > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance for any help
> >> >
> >> > WD
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Wd, I would sorbate now, and filter before you bottle to limit your handling
if you intend to let it bulk age another 2 months.
John Dixon
"Kiva" > wrote in message
...
> The filter is the fine filter for the Buon Super Jet. I know that it is
not
> sterile. That is why I am adding sorbate. The wine is Very clear now and
> still. I plan to bulk age a few more months. I have sulphite levels up
now.
> I plan to add aprox two tsp. of sobate to each 5gal carboy. The question
is
> when. before or after I filter?
>
> Wd
>
>
> "J Dixon" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on
the
> > clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will you
> > be
> > stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and then
> > Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great
hurry
> > and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out faster
the
> > second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering and
> > limit
> > the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way make
> > sure
> > your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont have
> > another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron
eliminating
> > a
> > fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around in a
> > carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> > John Dixon
> > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> >> WD,
> >> It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two things.
> >> If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_ filter
> >> that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
> >>
> >> If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile' filter
> >> it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
> >> take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
> >> clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is possible.
> >>
> >>
> >> I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add sorbate
> >> since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a hand
> >> grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form in
> >> the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most can't.
> >> If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small scale
> >> winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days at
> >> least to ensure it is still and bottle.
> >>
> >> Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you are
> >> not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just bottling
> >> and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough to
> >> keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually served
> >> cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate, just
> >> keep it cold.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> Kiva wrote:
> >> > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by
> >> putting
> >> > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The
> >> result is
> >> > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite
> >> along
> >> > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold
> >> and
> >> > rack.
> >> >
> >> > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
> >> >
> >> > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance for any help
> >> >
> >> > WD
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

John,

Just curious, has anyone filtered with a .5 - 1 micron filter and have
re-fermentation happen after bottling with R/S? According to the size
of yeast cells , anything below 5 microns should filter them out. Do we
have any winemakers out there with examples of re-fermentation or is
the caution just been handed down from generation to generation without
actual instances of this hapenning??

Bob


J Dixon wrote:
> Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on
the
> clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will
you be
> stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and
then
> Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great
hurry
> and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out
faster the
> second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering
and limit
> the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way
make sure
> your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont
have
> another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron
eliminating a
> fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around
in a
> carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> John Dixon
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > WD,
> > It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two
things.
> > If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_
filter
> > that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
> >
> > If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile'
filter
> > it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
> > take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
> > clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is
possible.
> >
> >
> > I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add
sorbate
> > since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a
hand
> > grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form
in
> > the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most
can't.
> > If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small
scale
> > winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days
at
> > least to ensure it is still and bottle.
> >
> > Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you
are
> > not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just
bottling
> > and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough
to
> > keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually
served
> > cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate,
just
> > keep it cold.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Kiva wrote:
> > > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation
by
> > putting
> > > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F.
The
> > result is
> > > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added
bentonite
> > along
> > > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the
cold
> > and
> > > rack.
> > >
> > > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
> > >
> > > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help
> > >
> > > WD
> >

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> John,
>
> Just curious, has anyone filtered with a .5 - 1 micron filter and have
> re-fermentation happen after bottling with R/S? According to the size
> of yeast cells , anything below 5 microns should filter them out. Do we
> have any winemakers out there with examples of re-fermentation or is
> the caution just been handed down from generation to generation without
> actual instances of this hapenning??
>
> Bob

Bob,

It depends on the type of filter used. A 0.45 micron (absolute) membrane
filter will not pass yeast or bacteria. A 0.5 (nominal) cellulose pad
filter will pass some yeast cells, and much yeast will be passed when the
filter start to blind. More info here
http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt16.html

Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

Bob,
I have never bottled using one of the type of filters you indicated,
but I have heard stories of those who have which included fizzy and
exploding bottles, corks ejected etc.
The "riskiest" method I use is to take a .45 micron nominal cartridge
filter and use it in line with my bottle filler as my only filtration.
(using NO Sorbate). I have found in my situation that this has been a
reasonable method so long as you ensure the filter is not becoming "blinded"
or plugged up as Lum stated. It certainly is safer to use an Absolute filter
of .45 or less, but the cost is about tripled for the filters so I have been
using the Nominals with good luck. The other point I was trying to make is
that Yeast is floating around in the air all the time, and if you filter
your wine and then let it bulk age without Sorbate you may get a
refermentation. Never tried it, but I dont think it's a good idea in my
opinion to filter without Sorbate and let the wine bulk age. HTH
John Dixon

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> John,
>
> Just curious, has anyone filtered with a .5 - 1 micron filter and have
> re-fermentation happen after bottling with R/S? According to the size
> of yeast cells , anything below 5 microns should filter them out. Do we
> have any winemakers out there with examples of re-fermentation or is
> the caution just been handed down from generation to generation without
> actual instances of this hapenning??
>
> Bob
>
>
> J Dixon wrote:
> > Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on
> the
> > clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will
> you be
> > stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and
> then
> > Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great
> hurry
> > and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out
> faster the
> > second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering
> and limit
> > the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way
> make sure
> > your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont
> have
> > another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron
> eliminating a
> > fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around
> in a
> > carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> > John Dixon
> > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > > WD,
> > > It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two
> things.
> > > If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_
> filter
> > > that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
> > >
> > > If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile'
> filter
> > > it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
> > > take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
> > > clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is
> possible.
> > >
> > >
> > > I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add
> sorbate
> > > since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a
> hand
> > > grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form
> in
> > > the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most
> can't.
> > > If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small
> scale
> > > winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days
> at
> > > least to ensure it is still and bottle.
> > >
> > > Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you
> are
> > > not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just
> bottling
> > > and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough
> to
> > > keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually
> served
> > > cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate,
> just
> > > keep it cold.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > Kiva wrote:
> > > > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation
> by
> > > putting
> > > > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F.
> The
> > > result is
> > > > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added
> bentonite
> > > along
> > > > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the
> cold
> > > and
> > > > rack.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
> > > >
> > > > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance for any help
> > > >
> > > > WD
> > >
>

John,

I guess what I really wanted to say was that in all my research, I
haven't found any documentation that says yeast cells can be smaller
than 4 microns. Actually, only one paper mentioned the 4 microns and
all others had 5 as the lower limit for WINE yeast cell size. I know
..45 absolute is needed for MLB BUT if the filter doesn't bind , I don't
see why a 3 micron or 1 micron filter wouldn't be enough to filter out
yeast cells. Now with that said, I use 1 micron in series with .35
micron for my filtering because I've been scared half to death by the
posters here ,BUT I'm just curious if anyone has had any luck
filtering out yeast with bigger micron sizes besides what is generally
recommended here. Thanks for all the responses.

Bob


J Dixon wrote:
> Bob,
> I have never bottled using one of the type of filters you
indicated,
> but I have heard stories of those who have which included fizzy and
> exploding bottles, corks ejected etc.
> The "riskiest" method I use is to take a .45 micron nominal
cartridge
> filter and use it in line with my bottle filler as my only
filtration.
> (using NO Sorbate). I have found in my situation that this has been a
> reasonable method so long as you ensure the filter is not becoming
"blinded"
> or plugged up as Lum stated. It certainly is safer to use an Absolute
filter
> of .45 or less, but the cost is about tripled for the filters so I
have been
> using the Nominals with good luck. The other point I was trying to
make is
> that Yeast is floating around in the air all the time, and if you
filter
> your wine and then let it bulk age without Sorbate you may get a
> refermentation. Never tried it, but I dont think it's a good idea in
my
> opinion to filter without Sorbate and let the wine bulk age. HTH
> John Dixon
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > John,
> >
> > Just curious, has anyone filtered with a .5 - 1 micron filter and
have
> > re-fermentation happen after bottling with R/S? According to the
size
> > of yeast cells , anything below 5 microns should filter them out.
Do we
> > have any winemakers out there with examples of re-fermentation or
is
> > the caution just been handed down from generation to generation
without
> > actual instances of this hapenning??
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > J Dixon wrote:
> > > Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend
more on
> > the
> > > clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and
will
> > you be
> > > stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and
> > then
> > > Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a
great
> > hurry
> > > and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out
> > faster the
> > > second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the
filtering
> > and limit
> > > the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way
> > make sure
> > > your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you
dont
> > have
> > > another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron
> > eliminating a
> > > fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit
around
> > in a
> > > carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> > > John Dixon
> > > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > > ups.com...
> > > > WD,
> > > > It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two
> > things.
> > > > If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron
_absolute_
> > filter
> > > > that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
> > > >
> > > > If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile'
> > filter
> > > > it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it
doesn't
> > > > take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good
and
> > > > clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is
> > possible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add
> > sorbate
> > > > since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create
a
> > hand
> > > > grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer
form
> > in
> > > > the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most
> > can't.
> > > > If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small
> > scale
> > > > winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few
days
> > at
> > > > least to ensure it is still and bottle.
> > > >
> > > > Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If
you
> > are
> > > > not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just
> > bottling
> > > > and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually
enough
> > to
> > > > keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is
usually
> > served
> > > > cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no
sorbate,
> > just
> > > > keep it cold.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > Kiva wrote:
> > > > > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the
fermentation
> > by
> > > > putting
> > > > > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees
F.
> > The
> > > > result is
> > > > > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added
> > bentonite
> > > > along
> > > > > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of
the
> > cold
> > > > and
> > > > > rack.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add
sorbate?
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance for any help
> > > > >
> > > > > WD
> > > >
> >

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> John,
>
> Just curious, has anyone filtered with a .5 - 1 micron filter and have
> re-fermentation happen after bottling with R/S? According to the size
> of yeast cells , anything below 5 microns should filter them out. Do we
> have any winemakers out there with examples of re-fermentation or is
> the caution just been handed down from generation to generation without
> actual instances of this hapenning??
>
> Bob

Bob,

It depends on the type of filter used. A 0.45 micron (absolute) membrane
filter will not pass yeast or bacteria. A 0.5 (nominal) cellulose pad
filter will pass some yeast cells, and much yeast will be passed when the
filter start to blind. More info here
http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt16.html

Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

Bob,
I have never bottled using one of the type of filters you indicated,
but I have heard stories of those who have which included fizzy and
exploding bottles, corks ejected etc.
The "riskiest" method I use is to take a .45 micron nominal cartridge
filter and use it in line with my bottle filler as my only filtration.
(using NO Sorbate). I have found in my situation that this has been a
reasonable method so long as you ensure the filter is not becoming "blinded"
or plugged up as Lum stated. It certainly is safer to use an Absolute filter
of .45 or less, but the cost is about tripled for the filters so I have been
using the Nominals with good luck. The other point I was trying to make is
that Yeast is floating around in the air all the time, and if you filter
your wine and then let it bulk age without Sorbate you may get a
refermentation. Never tried it, but I dont think it's a good idea in my
opinion to filter without Sorbate and let the wine bulk age. HTH
John Dixon

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> John,
>
> Just curious, has anyone filtered with a .5 - 1 micron filter and have
> re-fermentation happen after bottling with R/S? According to the size
> of yeast cells , anything below 5 microns should filter them out. Do we
> have any winemakers out there with examples of re-fermentation or is
> the caution just been handed down from generation to generation without
> actual instances of this hapenning??
>
> Bob
>
>
> J Dixon wrote:
> > Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on
> the
> > clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will
> you be
> > stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and
> then
> > Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great
> hurry
> > and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out
> faster the
> > second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering
> and limit
> > the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way
> make sure
> > your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont
> have
> > another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron
> eliminating a
> > fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around
> in a
> > carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> > John Dixon
> > "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > > WD,
> > > It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two
> things.
> > > If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_
> filter
> > > that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
> > >
> > > If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile'
> filter
> > > it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
> > > take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
> > > clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is
> possible.
> > >
> > >
> > > I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add
> sorbate
> > > since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a
> hand
> > > grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form
> in
> > > the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most
> can't.
> > > If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small
> scale
> > > winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days
> at
> > > least to ensure it is still and bottle.
> > >
> > > Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you
> are
> > > not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just
> bottling
> > > and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough
> to
> > > keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually
> served
> > > cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate,
> just
> > > keep it cold.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > Kiva wrote:
> > > > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation
> by
> > > putting
> > > > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F.
> The
> > > result is
> > > > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added
> bentonite
> > > along
> > > > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the
> cold
> > > and
> > > > rack.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
> > > >
> > > > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance for any help
> > > >
> > > > WD
> > >
>

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> John,
>
> Just curious, has anyone filtered with a .5 - 1 micron filter and have
> re-fermentation happen after bottling with R/S? According to the size
> of yeast cells , anything below 5 microns should filter them out. Do we
> have any winemakers out there with examples of re-fermentation or is
> the caution just been handed down from generation to generation without
> actual instances of this hapenning??
>
> Bob

Bob,

It depends on the type of filter used. A 0.45 micron (absolute) membrane
filter will not pass yeast or bacteria. A 0.5 (nominal) cellulose pad
filter will pass some yeast cells, and much yeast will be passed when the
filter start to blind. More info here
http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt16.html

Lum
Del Mar, California, USA

John,

Just curious, has anyone filtered with a .5 - 1 micron filter and have
re-fermentation happen after bottling with R/S? According to the size
of yeast cells , anything below 5 microns should filter them out. Do we
have any winemakers out there with examples of re-fermentation or is
the caution just been handed down from generation to generation without
actual instances of this hapenning??

Bob


J Dixon wrote:
> Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on
the
> clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will
you be
> stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and
then
> Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great
hurry
> and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out
faster the
> second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering
and limit
> the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way
make sure
> your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont
have
> another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron
eliminating a
> fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around
in a
> carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> John Dixon
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > WD,
> > It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two
things.
> > If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_
filter
> > that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
> >
> > If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile'
filter
> > it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
> > take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
> > clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is
possible.
> >
> >
> > I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add
sorbate
> > since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a
hand
> > grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form
in
> > the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most
can't.
> > If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small
scale
> > winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days
at
> > least to ensure it is still and bottle.
> >
> > Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you
are
> > not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just
bottling
> > and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough
to
> > keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually
served
> > cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate,
just
> > keep it cold.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Kiva wrote:
> > > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation
by
> > putting
> > > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F.
The
> > result is
> > > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added
bentonite
> > along
> > > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the
cold
> > and
> > > rack.
> > >
> > > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
> > >
> > > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any help
> > >
> > > WD
> >

The filter is the fine filter for the Buon Super Jet. I know that it is not
sterile. That is why I am adding sorbate. The wine is Very clear now and
still. I plan to bulk age a few more months. I have sulphite levels up now.
I plan to add aprox two tsp. of sobate to each 5gal carboy. The question is
when. before or after I filter?

Wd


"J Dixon" > wrote in message
...
> Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on the
> clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will you
> be
> stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and then
> Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great hurry
> and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out faster the
> second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering and
> limit
> the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way make
> sure
> your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont have
> another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron eliminating
> a
> fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around in a
> carboy before bottling it later.HTH
> John Dixon
> "Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> WD,
>> It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two things.
>> If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_ filter
>> that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
>>
>> If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile' filter
>> it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
>> take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
>> clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is possible.
>>
>>
>> I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add sorbate
>> since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a hand
>> grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form in
>> the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most can't.
>> If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small scale
>> winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days at
>> least to ensure it is still and bottle.
>>
>> Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you are
>> not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just bottling
>> and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough to
>> keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually served
>> cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate, just
>> keep it cold.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Kiva wrote:
>> > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by
>> putting
>> > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The
>> result is
>> > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite
>> along
>> > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold
>> and
>> > rack.
>> >
>> > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
>> >
>> > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for any help
>> >
>> > WD
>>
>
>

Joe's advice is good. When you add your sorbate should depend more on the
clarity of the wine now. More specifically is it real clear and will you be
stirring it up to add the Sorbate? If so, then I would filter and then
Sorbate. Another point of view might be that you are not in a great hurry
and dont care if it gets stirred up a bit (it always clears out faster the
second time anyways). If you do this you can put off the filtering and limit
the handling by eliminating one racking theoretically. Either way make sure
your sulphite levels are up before you add the Sorbate so you dont have
another problem. In any case I would not count on a .5 micron eliminating a
fermentation completely especially if you plan to let it sit around in a
carboy before bottling it later.HTH
John Dixon
"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> WD,
> It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two things.
> If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_ filter
> that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.
>
> If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile' filter
> it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
> take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
> clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is possible.
>
>
> I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add sorbate
> since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a hand
> grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form in
> the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most can't.
> If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small scale
> winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days at
> least to ensure it is still and bottle.
>
> Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you are
> not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just bottling
> and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough to
> keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually served
> cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate, just
> keep it cold.
>
> Joe
>
> Kiva wrote:
> > I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by
> putting
> > the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The
> result is
> > what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite
> along
> > with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold
> and
> > rack.
> >
> > 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
> >
> > 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help
> >
> > WD
>

WD,
It depends. when you say 0.5 micron filter, that can mean two things.
If you are going to sterile filter with an 0.5 micron _absolute_ filter
that should be fine, but it's very difficult to sterile filter.

If you are talking about a Buon Vino plate and frame 'sterile' filter
it is not an absolute filter. Yeast is pretty creative, it doesn't
take much to have a fermentation restart. If your wine is good and
clear chances of refermentation happening are slim, but it is possible.


I use the Buon Vino 'sterile' filter on sweet whites, but I add sorbate
since I do not trust it. 2 or 3 percent RS is enough to create a hand
grenade if it referments to dry. You would see a yeast layer form in
the bottle if that occured. Some people can taste sorbate, most can't.
If you want to use that it's often used to good effect by small scale
winemakers. I filter and sorbate the end product, wait a few days at
least to ensure it is still and bottle.

Another option you have is to bottle it and leave it cold. If you are
not talking about a lot of wine you may want to consider just bottling
and keeping it at 40F or so; anything under 50F is usually enough to
keep most yeast strains from restarting. A sweet wine is usually served
cold, so it may be an option to consider. No filter, no sorbate, just
keep it cold.

Joe

Kiva wrote:
> I have a Riesling I started last fall. I stopped the fermentation by
putting
> the carboys into a cold refrigerator at about 28-30 degrees F. The
result is
> what I wanted, approximately 2%-3% residual sugar. I added bentonite
along
> with the cold stabilization. I am now ready to take out of the cold
and
> rack.
>
> 1) Should I run it through the filter .5 micron and add sorbate?
>
> 2) or rack and sorbate now and then filter later?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any help
>
> WD